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Dekker22
2008-02-13, 02:57
It seems most posters on here work for the company and/or have a obvious vested interest in the slim device.
However, the failure to take constructive crticisim without taking offense is pretty off putting for a non-geek end user.

We are only stating what we find to be wrong with the dumb box.

The range for reception states 100 meters. This is stretching the truth quite a bit. The limit of mine (and I mean line of sight) is no more than 30 meters.

After the second day the barely useable GUI went beserk during playing and started to flash squares lines and dots. It then stopped the music (which put a downer on an otherwise great afternoon around the pool.

When creating playlists in windows media player slimserver fails to scan name changes and continues to post "untitled playlists" even though they were renamed days ago.

All of my wma tracks and albums are not seen by slimserver. THis is pretty off putting as it leaves great holes in my pre-edited playlists.

When it works it's fine. But at present the jury is still out.

autopilot
2008-02-13, 03:28
the failure to take constructive crticisim without taking offense is pretty off putting for a non-geek end user.

Followed by...



We are only stating what we find to be wrong with the dumb box.


What up with all the trolling and flamebaiting on the forums recently?

MuckleEck
2008-02-13, 03:34
It seems most posters on here work for the company and/or have a obvious vested interest in the slim device.
However, the failure to take constructive crticisim without taking offense is pretty off putting for a non-geek end user.

Bearing in mind the size of slim devices I would doubt that even a small percentage of forum users work for them (I don't)



We are only stating what we find to be wrong with the dumb box.


Dumb?.....I think you need to explain this in more detail.



The range for reception states 100 meters. This is stretching the truth quite a bit. The limit of mine (and I mean line of sight) is no more than 30 meters.

All wireless devices have extremely variable reception distances, in an ideal world with perfect atmospheric conditions you may get 100m, in the real world with an average router (bearing in mind that the output from the router determines the distance achevable) 30m sounds low but not unreasonable


After the second day the barely useable GUI went beserk during playing and started to flash squares lines and dots. It then stopped the music (which put a downer on an otherwise great afternoon around the pool.

Report it to slimdevices, have you been able to recreate this "berserk" activity?


When creating playlists in windows media player slimserver fails to scan name changes and continues to post "untitled playlists" even though they were renamed days ago.

I don't use WMP so can't comment


All of my wma tracks and albums are not seen by slimserver. THis is pretty off putting as it leaves great holes in my pre-edited playlists.

When it works it's fine. But at present the jury is still out.

AFAIK the SB3 and SS/SC will only play non-DRM lossy WMA files.

Are your WMA files either DRMed? or lossless?

We are here as a community to help.

Dekker22
2008-02-13, 03:42
Followed by...



What up with all the trolling and flamebaiting on the forums recently?

I rest my case.

It is a dumb box.
It has no dials, no on/off switch, no reset switch. It is controlled remotely. It is therefore a dumb box. It may be full of very sophisticated electronics. In reality, however, it is classed as a dumb box. No offense was meant. Like I said before people are quick on her to take offense though. What is with this huge insecurity thing?

MuckleEck
2008-02-13, 03:45
I rest my case.

It is a dumb box.
It has no dials, no on/off switch, no reset switch. It is controlled remotely. It is therefore a dumb box. It may be full of very sophisticated electronics. In reality, however, it is classed as a dumb box. No offense was meant. Like I said before people are quick on her to take offense though. What is with this huge insecurity thing?

I think "black" is more what you mean here rather than dumb IMHO

Dekker22
2008-02-13, 03:49
All wireless devices have extremely variable reception distances, in an ideal world with perfect atmospheric conditions you may get 100m, in the real world with an average router (bearing in mind that the output from the router determines the distance achevable) 30m sounds low but not unreasonable



I have a great double antennae router that my laptop picks up fine at the pool.
In an ideal world we would expect to live to 100. 30 sounds low but not unreasonable.
Your figures and that of Logitech are very unreasonable my friend.

Dekker22
2008-02-13, 03:51
I think "black" is more what you mean here rather than dumb IMHO

No Black (although that is the colour)would signfy something underhand or sinister.
I meant what I said - dumb.

MuckleEck
2008-02-13, 04:00
No Black (although that is the colour)would signfy something underhand or sinister.
I meant what I said - dumb.

"balck" in the context that I meant is a box that is intelligent but gives no outer indications (much like the black box flight recorders on aircraft)


I have a great double antennae router that my laptop picks up fine at the pool.
In an ideal world we would expect to live to 100. 30 sounds low but not unreasonable.
Your figures and that of Logitech are very unreasonable my friend.

Firstly you did not state in your original post that your laptop wored fine at the pool but the SB did not, secondly most laptops have significantly larger aerials in them (because of physical size) than the SB, finally yes I wopuld like to "live to 100" :-)

Dekker22
2008-02-13, 04:39
"balck" in the context that I meant is a box that is intelligent but gives no outer indications (much like the black box flight recorders on aircraft)



Firstly you did not state in your original post that your laptop wored fine at the pool but the SB did not, secondly most laptops have significantly larger aerials in them (because of physical size) than the SB, finally yes I wopuld like to "live to 100" :-)

First up laptop antennae are a mere strip of copper wire placed around the outer edge of the LCD. The SB could hold the same size with ease (If they decided to spend the money) Why say it will pick a signal from 100 meters, when 30m is more accurate? Misleading indeed.

A simple socket and the provision to buy an add on antennae would solve the problem.

Let's be honest it's reception is piss poor.

MuckleEck
2008-02-13, 04:44
Let's be honest it's reception is piss poor.

To be honest I have had no issues with the reception of my 3 SBs in the house. However I have for a different reason (office in the garden) installed two 10dB aerials on my wireless router (before splashing out and putting a duct out to the office), therefore no receptions issues in the house, so the claim of 100m or otherwise is a non-issue for me

mflint
2008-02-13, 05:04
It seems most posters on here work for the company and/or have a obvious vested interest in the slim device.
However, the failure to take constructive crticisim without taking offense is pretty off putting for a non-geek end user.
Yes, there are a lot of SlimDevices / LogitechSMS employees who post here (though sometimes I think it could be made more obvious whether a poster is employed by Logitech)

Me, I guess I'd fall into your "vested interest" bracket. For me, I'm a music lover, a programmer and a geek. I've invested a fair bit of time and energy into writing Squeezebox-related code - for my own use mainly. The nature of the SlimDevices community is that new code/features/innovations is shared, in the hope that it'll be useful to others.

We're a pretty pragmatic bunch, we don't expect everything to be perfect and (on the whole, I think) we respond well to constructive criticism.

A good example of this, for me, is the LiveDepartures thread. Some folks had suggestions, some had usability issues. For others, it didn't work at all. But they were able to give nice detailed fault reports and things are quickly fixed.

Compare that to a lot of threads recently where someone's just said that something is sh*t. Given the amount of effort that SlimDevices (and us third-party development folk) put into the product, you shouldn't be surprised if someone takes offense. :-)

Matthew

slimpy
2008-02-13, 05:07
It seems most posters on here work for the company and/or have a obvious vested interest in the slim device.
However, the failure to take constructive crticisim without taking offense is pretty off putting for a non-geek end user.

We are only stating what we find to be wrong with the dumb box.

Most posters here neither work for the company nor have any vested interest.
Most are just passionate users of what they think is a great product.
Some spend a fair amount of their spare time to help people like you.
If they were not biased towards the product what would be their reason to participate in this forum?
If you seek help it doesn't really help to put off the regulars here.
Maybe the official support hotline is better suited for your needs.
Ranting about something is not constructive criticism.

The range for reception states 100 meters. This is stretching the truth quite a bit. The limit of mine (and I mean line of sight) is no more than 30 meters.

Where does it say range was 100m? I couldn't find this information anywhere. Maybe you can post a link.
There are so many factors that affect wireless range it's impossible to give a definitive number. The same hardware that has a great range in one location can perform very poorly in another.


After the second day the barely useable GUI went beserk during playing and started to flash squares lines and dots. It then stopped the music (which put a downer on an otherwise great afternoon around the pool.
More information is needed.
What GUI (web GUI, SB screen)?
Can you reproduce the problem (if yes, how)?
Server and firmware version?
Server hardware?
Server OS?
Server software configuration (firewall, antivirus)?

When creating playlists in windows media player slimserver fails to scan name changes and continues to post "untitled playlists" even though they were renamed days ago.
Did you rescan the playlists in Slimserver after making the changes in WMP?

All of my wma tracks and albums are not seen by slimserver. THis is pretty off putting as it leaves great holes in my pre-edited playlists.
According to your other thread this problem was solved and it seems wasn't related to the squeezebox after all.

-s.

Phil Leigh
2008-02-13, 05:11
Well said Matthew.

Oh and I don't work for or have any affiliation with Slim/Logitech other than being a very happy user (who didn't get a Jive prototype...grumble, moan, whinge).

I try and help others whenever I can, as I know just how great the thing can be when all is working as it should.
I'd love to write some code too but that's a bit beyond me to be honest.

I come on here when I get stuck or have a problem and usually get first-class advice and friendly help.

The SB has been a revelation for me - it's the only appliance I've ever owned that has truly grown functionality over time (except for my PC of course). Call me a "fan boy" if you like, but I'm not. I'm just a delighted user. I wish I could say that about all the things I use...

peter
2008-02-13, 05:29
Dekker22 wrote:
> It seems most posters on here work for the company and/or have a obvious
> vested interest in the slim device.
> However, the failure to take constructive crticisim without taking
> offense is pretty off putting for a non-geek end user.
>

Another vote for censoring the trolls.

Regards,
Peter

autopilot
2008-02-13, 05:30
I rest my case.

It is a dumb box.
It has no dials, no on/off switch, no reset switch. It is controlled remotely. It is therefore a dumb box. It may be full of very sophisticated electronics. In reality, however, it is classed as a dumb box. No offense was meant. Like I said before people are quick on her to take offense though. What is with this huge insecurity thing?

Do you think i was born yesterday? No one uses "dumb" in that sense anyway now, it's "thin client" if you want to get pedantic.

Anyway, hope you get it sorted. If only because you honestly appear to be the type of person that really actually reveals in it when something goes wrong, so you can get all high and mighty and shout at people on public forums. Seems to have been a few like that around recently.

Phil Leigh
2008-02-13, 05:44
The only mention of 100m I can find is the max length of the Ethernet cable!

tyler_durden
2008-02-13, 05:45
I think you need to slap your forehead with the heel of your hand and using your best Homer Simpson voice, let out a big "Doh!"

The Slimdevices products are not yet Homer Simpson proof. Even though they look really simple because they don't have any buttons to push or knobs to turn, they are still sophisticated devices with many possible options and settings. Yes, a little thing like DRM buried in a file format can keep the device from playing a file.

Maybe some sort of error message that says the "file is unplayable" or is crippled with DRM can be added. Hmmm. Where would you read the message? Maybe on the SB3 display... Should it stop displaying the music that is "now playing" to display the error message? What about the SBR? The web interface maybe... but who runs that all the time? OOh oooh! I know! Put a canned audio message into the library that says "Bill Gates doesn't want you to play this file without paying him". But maybe that would be sort of sucky if you just want to hear music. Hmmm. Maybe the best thing is to just skip over unplayable files. Wait, isn't that what it already does?

TD

amcluesent
2008-02-13, 05:52
>t then stopped the music (which put a downer on an otherwise great afternoon around the pool.<

Another party/squeezebox situation ends badly :)

Phil Leigh
2008-02-13, 05:57
>t then stopped the music (which put a downer on an otherwise great afternoon around the pool.<

Another party/squeezebox situation ends badly :)

Yeah I guess there's a moral here somewhere...

I think the "designated driver" idea is a good one - if you are going to have an SB-dependant party and you are a new user, make sure you ahve a sober geek monitoring your SB, Server and network at all times.

(still beats the hell out of having some drunken buffoon bend your $1,000 stylus...)

gw43
2008-02-13, 06:07
AFAIK the SB3 and SS/SC will only play non-DRM lossy WMA files.

Are your WMA files either DRMed? or lossless?

We are here as a community to help.

I can confirm that the SB3 will play WMA lossless files. Well, mine does anyway!

cparker
2008-02-13, 06:13
100m for wireless, I doubt it. 30m sounds about right otherwise you are going to be needing a broadcast license LOL! ;)

The web interface will tell you the strength of the signal and I think the intelligent black box can as well.

I use a "N" class Netgear and the player is about 15m away on the otherside of a 30cm thick flint wall, on top of the fridge with the freezer in the way and still hits about 44% signal strength.

Works fine with no problems, so I completely disagree with your comments about the quality of the antenna.

radish
2008-02-13, 06:51
Works fine with no problems, so I completely disagree with your comments about the quality of the antenna.

Agreed. My master bedroom is the furthest point away from the router in my house and the SB2 is the only device which works reliably in there - laptops, iphone etc all drop out frequently.

MuckleEck
2008-02-13, 06:53
I can confirm that the SB3 will play WMA lossless files. Well, mine does anyway!

I stand/sit/lie down (delete as appropriate) corrected.....

bpa
2008-02-13, 07:32
WMA lossless is not supported natively by SB3 - it is transcoded by the Slimserver. This happens transparently in a Windows based server but on Linux or OSX you will have to install 3rd party application.

See http://slimdevices.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/slimdevices.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=6028&p_created=1168560317&p_sid=_j3U_cYi&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9OCw4JnBfcHJvZHM9MCZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnB fY3Y9JnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9bG9zc2xlc3M*&p_li=&p_topview=1

Shredder
2008-02-13, 08:17
I don't think there is anything wrong with this post.

I love the SD products and recommend them to everyone I know. I am a huge music fan and SD has greatly increased my enjoyment of my music.

However, the Software has a lot of problems. That cannot be disputed; just read all the posts. Ultimately, SD and this forum provide great support and the problems are solved. A lot of time and aggravation must be invested into making these products work, especially if you are not computer savvy (like me). In the long run, however, the vast functionality makes the hassles worthwhile. At least, for me.

I disagree that most posters are LT employees. I am not and do not think the vast majority are.

I do, however, agree that people are too defensive about criticism, especially the LT employees, including Sean himself. At first, I liked that the employees got involved in posting. Now, I tire of the employees getting in flame wars with people. This is a very difficult and time consuming product to get to work properly. It is no wonder that people get upset when their very exciting and expensive product does not work and hours must be invested fixing the problems.

Just my opinion. I am no troll.

mikeswingler
2008-02-13, 08:47
As another non-geek (and UK based), I have found getting to grips with the SB since I got mine in Jan08 very slow and time consuming. You seem to need to be very computer literate and have a lot of spare time. But the Sonos alternative is a lot more expensive. One of my frustrations is the bias towards the US built into the product. All the pre-loaded radio stations are US, Pandora and Rhapsody are US only. Logitech is an international company, the product is sold at retail outlets in the UK and yet you can only get Lastfm by a work around plugin, and there are no plans to integrate Napster, which currently is the only subscription service available in the UK. Having said that, I think the forum community is great, I think I would still be looking at a dumb black box without it.
Mike

peter
2008-02-13, 08:49
Shredder wrote:
> I don't think there is anything wrong with this post.
>

I do and I'm not an employee. Just a reader who gets tired of
inflammatory startposts.

Regards,
Peter

m1abrams
2008-02-13, 09:07
I do, however, agree that people are too defensive about criticism, especially the LT employees, including Sean himself. At first, I liked that the employees got involved in posting. Now, I tire of the employees getting in flame wars with people. This is a very difficult and time consuming product to get to work properly. It is no wonder that people get upset when their very exciting and expensive product does not work and hours must be invested fixing the problems.

Just my opinion. I am no troll.

The OP started this thread off extremely poorly. I am a geek but not related to SlimDevices. Many posts lately by non-geeks have been very poorly written and close to trolling. The majority users of this forum by far are very level headed and handle criticism very well. However this post and many like it was not started with criticism but with a flammatory sentence. Criticism is not calling something crap, but instead pointing out where its weakness and problems. Just saying something is bad without explaining how is not helpful. Yes the software needs to be a little more idiot proof, however if you notice one of the biggest difference between 6.5 and 7 is the UI and setup wizard attempting to make it more user friendly. However at the end of the day the nature of the beast is not simple particularly if you involve wireless.

Also I would like to see an example of Sean's posts that are defensive. He actually takes the punches very well and even takes them to heart in the design of the products. The transporter today would not be the high level device it is today if he did not. If however you are referring to posts made on the Audiophile forum, well some of those posts get a bit whacky in the snake oil and sometimes you just have to call people on it.

Phil Leigh
2008-02-13, 09:09
The OP started this thread off extremely poorly. I am a geek but not related to SlimDevices. Many posts lately by non-geeks have been very poorly written and close to trolling. The majority users of this forum by far are very level headed and handle criticism very well. However this post and many like it was not started with criticism but with a flammatory sentence. Criticism is not calling something crap, but instead pointing out where its weakness and problems. Just saying something is bad without explaining how is not helpful. Yes the software needs to be a little more idiot proof, however if you notice one of the biggest difference between 6.5 and 7 is the UI and setup wizard attempting to make it more user friendly. However at the end of the day the nature of the beast is not simple particularly if you involve wireless.

Also I would like to see an example of Sean's posts that are defensive. He actually takes the punches very well and even takes them to heart in the design of the products. The transporter today would not be the high level device it is today if he did not. If however you are referring to posts made on the Audiophile forum, well some of those posts get a bit whacky in the snake oil and sometimes you just have to call people on it.

Can we leave the Audiophile forum out of this - it is a special case for people like me who really should be in therapy...

m1abrams
2008-02-13, 09:12
Can we leave the Audiophile forum out of this - it is a special case for people like me who really should be in therapy...

See I look at the audiophile forum as a place for humor :).

haunyack
2008-02-13, 09:17
Can we leave the Audiophile forum out of this - it is a special case for people like me who really should be in therapy...

Thanks Phil.
It's usually where I end up when the medication wears off.

.

MuckleEck
2008-02-13, 09:20
Thanks Phil.
It's usually where I end up when the medication wears off.

.

I knew I was doing something wrong....medication....

ds2021
2008-02-13, 09:38
Followed by...
What up with all the trolling and flamebaiting on the forums recently?

There may be a lesson about the mass market here.

seanadams
2008-02-13, 09:41
The range for reception states 100 meters. This is stretching the truth quite a bit. The limit of mine (and I mean line of sight) is no more than 30 meters.

Where do you see that? _Ethernet_ is good to 100 meters.

Wireless - who knows. It all depends on your access point and the environment. If you are getting 30 meters (98 feet) indoors, that is not too shabby.

m1abrams
2008-02-13, 09:42
Oh response to the Wifi range of 100m. As others stated no one has seen that stated by Slimdevices.

Also 30m range for wifi indoors is about what one would expect. To get 100m you need good conditions and line of sight for the most part. Your laptop will get better range because it requires less throughput. Email and web surfing require very little throughput and can handle retransmits much better than streaming music. SB can handle a good bit of retransmits but eventually the buffer will expire. If you are streaming lossless the issue is even greater.

kdf
2008-02-13, 09:57
On 13-Feb-08, at 8:38 AM, ds2021 wrote:

>
> autopilot;268824 Wrote:
>> Followed by...
>> What up with all the trolling and flamebaiting on the forums
>> recently?
>
> There may be a lesson about the mass market here.

I knew someone would eventually get there.
-kdf