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b33k34
2008-02-11, 06:42
Following on from the "Why Squeezebox sucks" thread I'm starting this as a proper discussion of how a Party Mode should work.

I've regularly had the same problem as the original poster whereby playlists regularly get wiped by mistake so i'd like to see a 'safe mode' for the remote and a 'simple' mode for the web interface, both of which offer some protection against the 'clear entire playlist and play this track'

SC is far from the only device that has this problem - I still do the same with my iPod and iTunes so the interface needs some thought from someone with more UX skill than i have..

Khuli
2008-02-11, 07:24
I would suggest:

1. Pressing 'Play' on a track inserts it at the current point in the playlist and plays it immediately, before continuing on with the existing playlist.

2. Pressing 'Add' adds a track to the end of the list as normal.

3. The saved playlist cannot be deleted or overwritten. The playlist in use can only be saved (with a new name) and a password required to abandon it completely. This prevents the original party playlist being altered or deleted, and the new version put together by the guests from being cleared by accident.

4. Server/player settings are not accessible without a password.

5. Only The Browse Music menu is listed (Browse Artist/Album/Genre/Year)

mflint
2008-02-11, 07:38
1. Pressing 'Play' on a track inserts it at the current point in the playlist and plays it immediately, before continuing on with the existing playlist.

I thought the "pressing play stops the current track" was the main gripe in the "Sucks" thread.

Agree with your other suggestions though :-)

M

bobkoure
2008-02-11, 07:42
Or simply save the about-to-be-cleared playlist as, well, a playlist. Keep some limited number of playlists (pros and cons for either naming with date/time or just 01, 02, etc).
For now, if you "oops", it's a matter of loading that playlist - but it could become the basis of undo/redo functionality.

This is not the same thing as "party mode", but being able to undo a catastrophic change is something that most computer users expect to be able to do these days.

Khuli
2008-02-11, 07:44
I thought the "pressing play stops the current track" was the main gripe in the "Sucks" thread.

I think the big gripe was "Pressing play overwrites the ENTIRE playlist"...

Sike
2008-02-11, 07:47
I like Khuli's Ideas. Pressing play could also add it as the next track in the playlist. If you wanted to hear it at once you could press play on the trace and then press the "next track" key ..

peter
2008-02-11, 07:50
bobkoure wrote:
> Or simply save the about-to-be-cleared playlist as, well, a playlist.
> Keep some limited number of playlists (pros and cons for either naming
> with date/time or just 01, 02, etc).
> For now, if you "oops", it's a matter of loading that playlist - but it
> could become the basis of undo/redo functionality.
>

Just add a Ctrl-Z button to the remote ;)

Regards,
Peter

Joe Luser
2008-02-11, 16:47
The sb2 remote has TWENTY-NINE buttons! No matter where this discussion
goes, it's impossible to fix the interface by repairing the functionality of
one single button. The duet gets a little better with eleven (note the iPod,
depending on how you count, has two). As long as the interface is designed
by engineers who are already deeply familiar with the system, parties are
going to continue to be an invitation to disaster.

Maybe the thing to do is abandon the remote altogether and write a little
javascript interface app to run on the iPhone?

radish
2008-02-11, 21:08
The sb2 remote has TWENTY-NINE buttons! No matter where this discussion
goes, it's impossible to fix the interface by repairing the functionality of
one single button. The duet gets a little better with eleven (note the iPod,
depending on how you count, has two). As long as the interface is designed
by engineers who are already deeply familiar with the system, parties are
going to continue to be an invitation to disaster.

Why? Because someone might press Brightness or Size by mistake? Seriously...the vast majority of buttons on the remote are pretty self explanatory, and I haven't heard many complaints that people simply don't know how to use it. The complaints seem to be centered around a misunderstanding of how Play works. I mean my TV remote has a lot of buttons but most people can figure out how to change channel without adjusting the color balance by mistake.



Maybe the thing to do is abandon the remote altogether and write a little
javascript interface app to run on the iPhone?

Like this? http://penguinlovesmusic.de/?page_id=3

Joe Luser
2008-02-11, 23:16
With all due respect, radish, your note reads like the classic engineer response
to poor UI design. Yes, people *can* figure this stuff out. The problem is you
lose 90% of your potential audience from the get-go if you insist on *forcing* them
to figure it out. Remember the Rio? The uber-cool, nerd mp3 player that
existed before the iPod? No? That's because it had thirteen buttons.

Clearly the designers are aware of the problems, since they gave the iPod
treatment to the new remote. But they've still got a long way to go before
party mode will be a useful marketing opportunity.


The penguinlovesmusic thing looks completely awesome. Now I need to get an iPhone. Thanks!

peter
2008-02-11, 23:38
Joe Luser wrote:
> With all due respect, radish, your note reads like the classic engineer
> response
> to poor UI design. Yes, people *can* figure this stuff out. The problem
> is you
> lose 90% of your potential audience from the get-go if you insist on
> *forcing* them
> to figure it out. Remember the Rio? The uber-cool, nerd mp3 player
> that
> existed before the iPod? No? That's because it had thirteen buttons.
>

Stop the iPod religion already. My TV has more buttons than the SB and
nobody ever complained about that. The Play problems stem from the fact
that the SB works just a little bit different from other music players.
You have to get used to that. Trying it for the first time during a
party while inebriated is not the best way to learn.

> Clearly the designers are aware of the problems, since they gave the
> iPod
> treatment to the new remote. But they've still got a long way to go
>

More like the Sonos treatment. BTW, I think the new remote has too few
buttons. Changing shuffle mode while browsing my music folders is a
major hassle. Yes, you can theoretically do everything with a wheel and
one button but it will be terribly inconvenient.

Regards,
Peter

haunyack
2008-02-12, 00:05
Trying it for the first time during a
party while inebriated is not the best way to learn.
Peter

Huh?
Since when?

.

mattybain
2008-02-12, 01:51
More like the Sonos treatment. BTW, I think the new remote has too few
buttons. Changing shuffle mode while browsing my music folders is a
major hassle. Yes, you can theoretically do everything with a wheel and
one button but it will be terribly inconvenient.

Regards,
Peter

Great point, my one major gripe with the ipod is how hard it is to change shuffle mode, I often think FFS why doesn't it have a little buttom to do this!!

TV's have a myriad of buttons on their remotes and judging from TV viewing figures I don't see people having major problems with them.

mattybain
2008-02-12, 01:52
Huh?
Since when?

.

He's refering to the thread that started this discussion "why squeezebox sucks", AFAIK it's not a comment aimed at you.

Joe Luser
2008-02-12, 02:23
My TV has more buttons than the SB and
nobody ever complained about that.


You're kidding, right?
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20040607.html

peter
2008-02-12, 02:28
Joe Luser wrote:
> Peter;268318 Wrote:
>
>> My TV has more buttons than the SB and
>> nobody ever complained about that.
>>
>>
>
> You're kidding, right?
> http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20040607.html
>

This guy is mostly complaining about having to use multiple remotes and
how hard it is to integrate them and the bad labelling on the buttons.

Regards,
Peter

autopilot
2008-02-12, 03:11
I would like to rig it up to a coin machine, so people have to pay like with a proper bar jukebox. Just add the tracks(s) to the end of an unchangeable playlist, then make them wait ages to get to their track just like in a real pub ("i'm sure mine should be on by now!") :)

Khuli
2008-02-12, 04:40
Can we be a bit radical here and get back to the thread topic?

The OP wanted to discuss a potential party mode with a view to the solution for the original 'sucking' thread, not a continued argument about the current usability....

ceejay
2008-02-12, 04:55
Can we be a radical here and get back to the thread topic?

The OP wanted to discuss a potential party mode with a view to the solution for the original 'sucking' thread, not a continued argument about the current usability....

Quite right.

My contribution in the other thread was:



Have access through the web UI (password protected) for "fixing" the playlist when someone has lined up 16 consecutive plays of The Birdy Song.

For extra credit, have configuration options in the plugin to allow the use of the "play" (ie wipe playlist) button when you have a well-trained (sober!) group visiting.

For extra extra credit, hide all of the unnecessary menu options.

Maybe even allow configuration settings to hide certain genres completely (I know, I've probably gone too far here).

Would the NoSetup plugin be a good place to start?


Discussion after that raised the question of whether this was best done with a skin or a plugin, which raises for me two quite different solutions for (a) remote users and (b) web interface users. Actually I suppose we should now make that three: (c) SBC users.

An all singing, all dancing solution for all three interface models would be nice but isn't likely to appear any time soon. I prefer the pragmatic approach - lets see if we can put together something simple which caters for at least some people, and take it from there. Maybe take the IR remote and Web interface scenarios separately, as I think the solutions will be different.

For the IR remote case, what would we miss if we just used the NoSetup plugin and an adapted keymap?

Ceejay

ltb76
2008-02-12, 08:46
Quite right.

For the IR remote case, what would we miss if we just used the NoSetup plugin and an adapted keymap?

Ceejay

I would like to see the following in "Party Mode"

-configurable option "Don't allow track / Artist to be added if it appears in the last XX entries of the playlist"
-configurable options to also block skip, volume controls, pause

Lasse

haunyack
2008-02-12, 15:54
He's refering to the thread that started this discussion "why squeezebox sucks", AFAIK it's not a comment aimed at you.

Hi mattybain,

Yes, I've been following this thread.
Thought I might inject a little humor, considering the fiasco I went through a while back.

It wasn't the actions of a inebriated guest but the complete and utter failure of the server during a function at my home.
I concede it was a beta release, should have looked ahead and pre-installed the stable release.
I'm over it, but I can only guess at the impressions of those who were dancing, enjoying the music, etc.

So I posted a thread in which the title was fairly banal, but the content it contained was, well let's just say that if the mod had not deleted it, I would have been burnt to a crisp by some (many) members.

Sometimes I forget that members here subscribe and recieve threads via email.
To all those who received (and others who may have read it before deletion) the profanity filled attack - my sincere apologies.




Cheers!