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Metoo
2008-02-09, 20:32
So you're having a party demonstrating how easy to use Squeezebox and Slimserver is, or just getting comfortable, browsing the collection and adding what you want to hear with the Add + button like any old juke box.

Then somebody goes and presses the Play instead, and all the previous requests are instantly wiped out.

Somebody says, it's on a computer, right? So you can get it all back?

You go to playlists, and it says Empty.

You give the guests or company the choice of starting from scratch, or going home.

WhyTF are "Add +" or Play tracks not automatically stored in a temporary playlist that has an "undo" feature or is recoverable?

Or am I doing something wrong?

haunyack
2008-02-09, 20:34
Or am I doing something wrong?

No...the software sucks.
How many years in development?
Too many for the apparent lack of reliabilty, unpredictable performance and all around pain-in-the-ass factor.
Why can't the "experts" make it work as advertised?
The answer is in the smokescreen that ensues when one post's something like I just have. (read - silence the fan-boys)

btw - welcome to the forum!

I wish you the best in your SB/SC experience...sincerely.

.

smc2911
2008-02-09, 20:37
Add does add to a temporary playlist, but the moment that you press "Play" rather than "Add" you zap the old playlist and start a new one...note the emphasis on "temporary". However, there is a Save feature for playlists, so use this next time you line up a long playlist and then it will be visible under Playlists and you can use it as many times as you like. Also, you can fire up a Playlist, add to it or modify that and save it under a new name or over the top of the old one.

smc2911
2008-02-09, 20:44
Why can't the "experts" make it work as advertised?As far as I'm aware it doesn't say anywhere that temporary playlists will be saved (unless you explicitly press Save), so I have never expected it to behave other than the way it does in this regard.

haunyack
2008-02-09, 20:51
As far as I'm aware it doesn't say anywhere that temporary playlists will be saved (unless you explicitly press Save), so I have never expected it to behave other than the way it does in this regard.


Yes..I agree.
My rant was a bit "off the cuff" as I have been fighting the software lately.
A recent post of mine (deleted by "the lord of the web") explained (with a few expeltives sprinkled throughout) the embarrassment I endured during a dinner party featuring the Slim Devices/Logitech model.
The music just stopped, no apparent reason - mood killer like no other.
I can only guess at the word of mouth advertising SD/LT must have received by 140+ guest's after THAT fiasco.

Now, all of a sudden SC spends about 5 minutes thrashing my hard drive while start-up initiates.
Finally, the interface loads and I spend the next 10 minutes waiting for SC to list my "New Music".
Sometimes it does...most times it just fails and locks up the interface.
Do this 3 or 4 times while attempting to play a few tracks before work and you end up venting on anything that remotely resembles SC trouble.
No...I have not filed a "bug report" and do not intend to.
I don't care to be involved with the development aspect of this so-called "solution".
Logitech has plenty of resources to pay for their own focus group, I just want to use the hardware.

Metoo - my apologies for hijacking your thread.


.

MeSue
2008-02-09, 21:32
I have accidentally wiped out playlists before by pressing play instead of add. It would be nice if there were some kind of confirmation for this. Maybe everyone wouldn't like it, so it could be an option in setting such as "Confirm actions which would replace the current playlist." That way you could enable it for parties and leave it off at other times.

SuperQ
2008-02-09, 22:53
I prefer the UNIX way of doing things personally. If I type "do this thing I want you to do" I don't want endless "Are you sure" prompts. Computers are tools, they should act like tools and not nannies.

When I was working on a bookshelf I drilled holes in the wrong place on several boards and had to re-make the boards. This took 3 more days to sand, stain, and varnish the wood. Of course I bitched at myself for an hour or so, but the drill press never asked me "are you sure?" or had an undo function.

I'd rather have the Slim guys working on new real features and fixing bugs than making every last bit of the system idiot proof. If I do an idiotic thing, it's my fault, I should pay attention and be less of an idiot.

smc2911
2008-02-09, 22:54
When I was working on a bookshelf I drilled holes in the wrong place on several boards and had to re-make the boards. This took 3 more days to sand, stain, and varnish the wood. Of course I bitched at myself for an hour or so, but the drill press never asked me "are you sure?" or had an undo function.Tools with an undo feature. Now there's a product for me!

ehjones
2008-02-09, 23:29
I'd rather have the Slim guys working on new real features and fixing bugs than making every last bit of the system idiot proof. If I do an idiotic thing, it's my fault, I should pay attention and be less of an idiot.

I largely agree with your sentiment and I like the enormous power that the UNIX way lets you do things, even if I end up doing 'rm -rf /' on rare occasions.

However, I believe the ideal that UI technology should be aiming for is the 'get out of my way and just do what I mean' principle, which can include letting me change my mind as I like. The idea that a UI needs to 'learnt' suggests to me that the UI is flawed. Of course, by that principle every UI currently in existence is flawed...

But perhaps I just watch too much Star Trek ;-)

Timothy Stockman
2008-02-09, 23:52
Seems to me that an "undo" feature to get back playlists accidentally wiped out would satisfy both groups. Those who want to use it can. Those who don't want to use it can kick themselves for accidentally clearing their playlist. And it won't get it anyone's way...

amcluesent
2008-02-10, 01:26
Funny how posters have problems at 'parties', maybe there should be a 'designated squeezebox user' allowing everyone else to get hammered?

autopilot
2008-02-10, 01:40
Funny how posters have problems at 'parties', maybe there should be a 'designated squeezebox user' allowing everyone else to get hammered?

Yep, need a 'i'm drunk' button or plugin to protect against stuff like this!

Or yes, you could just save your playlists. I do a few playlists pre-party.

ceejay
2008-02-10, 01:55
I'm sure we've been here before, or is it deju vue all over again? I think there is a clear need for a party-mode plugin which would disable all setting changes and only allow you to add tracks to the end of the playlist.

Have access through the web UI (password protected) for "fixing" the playlist when someone has lined up 16 consecutive plays of The Birdy Song.

For extra credit, have configuration options in the plugin to allow the use of the "play" (ie wipe playlist) button when you have a well-trained (sober!) group visiting.

For extra extra credit, hide all of the unnecessary menu options.

Maybe even allow configuration settings to hide certain genres completely (I know, I've probably gone too far here).

Would the NoSetup plugin be a good place to start?

Phil Leigh
2008-02-10, 02:59
Whilst agreeing that a "party mode" would be useful, perhaps this thread could legitimately be re-titled "Why my ability to properly operate my Squeezebox sucks?" ;o)

JJZolx
2008-02-10, 03:11
I'm sure we've been here before, or is it deju vue all over again? I think there is a clear need for a party-mode plugin which would disable all setting changes and only allow you to add tracks to the end of the playlist.

Have access through the web UI (password protected) for "fixing" the playlist when someone has lined up 16 consecutive plays of The Birdy Song.

For extra credit, have configuration options in the plugin to allow the use of the "play" (ie wipe playlist) button when you have a well-trained (sober!) group visiting.

For extra extra credit, hide all of the unnecessary menu options.

Maybe even allow configuration settings to hide certain genres completely (I know, I've probably gone too far here).

Would the NoSetup plugin be a good place to start?

Sounds more like a skin than a plugin. Maybe a plugin could do it in the remote interface, but I'm guessing the best that could be done in the web interface would be to render the 'play' controls inactive rather than hiding them.

SilverRS8
2008-02-10, 03:51
So you're having a party demonstrating how easy to use Squeezebox and Slimserver is, or just getting comfortable, browsing the collection and adding what you want to hear with the Add + button like any old juke box.

Then somebody goes and presses the Play instead, and all the previous requests are instantly wiped out.

Somebody says, it's on a computer, right? So you can get it all back?

You go to playlists, and it says Empty.

You give the guests or company the choice of starting from scratch, or going home.

WhyTF are "Add +" or Play tracks not automatically stored in a temporary playlist that has an "undo" feature or is recoverable?

Or am I doing something wrong?

Great subject and language usage (don't see the added value of it) from someone who apparently doesn't have a clue how to handle playlist.
Just create one, save it and there is your 'undo' if someone screws the current playlist up.

BTW: I wonder what the added value of using

SilverRS8
2008-02-10, 03:56
Yes..I agree.
My rant was a bit "off the cuff" as I have been fighting the software lately.
A recent post of mine (deleted by "the lord of the web") explained (with a few expeltives sprinkled throughout) the embarrassment I endured during a dinner party featuring the Slim Devices/Logitech model.
The music just stopped, no apparent reason - mood killer like no other.
I can only guess at the word of mouth advertising SD/LT must have received by 140+ guest's after THAT fiasco.

Now, all of a sudden SC spends about 5 minutes thrashing my hard drive while start-up initiates.
Finally, the interface loads and I spend the next 10 minutes waiting for SC to list my "New Music".
Sometimes it does...most times it just fails and locks up the interface.
Do this 3 or 4 times while attempting to play a few tracks before work and you end up venting on anything that remotely resembles SC trouble.
No...I have not filed a "bug report" and do not intend to.
I don't care to be involved with the development aspect of this so-called "solution".
Logitech has plenty of resources to pay for their own focus group, I just want to use the hardware.

Metoo - my apologies for hijacking your thread.
.

Although "the lord of the web" himself isn't too good either at chosing words for communication with the community (refer to 'Australians screwed' thread) he made a perfect good decision of removing your thread because of your great language usage after complaining about having problems at a party when using beta release software.

Metoo
2008-02-10, 07:08
Well at least I know it's not just me that thinks this is a major flaw in Squeezebox's UI :)

For all those that say I should learn how to use the Squeezebox properly, go through 20 keypresses to save the playlist everytime a track gets added (not simple to get to, is it?), teach my guests or family to do the same (err, see ya!), give them a course in Unix command shell syntax, or stick rigidly to a dictatorially controlled pre-prepared playlist (no thanks, we like to go with the flow), I say, get out of the computer room and back into the lounge with "normal" people.

This isn't something intended for geeks, even if the back end requires one to set it up. The Squeezebox front end is designed to be used on a DOMESTIC environment, with high WAF and simple UI and navigation that ANYONE can use. As such it _should_ be idiot and fumble proof. Not something that trashes a whole night's music, simply from somebody inadvertently pressing the highly prominent Play button.

If that's the extent of Squeezebox/Slimserver's "intelligence", I might as well save a few hundred quid and just have the laptop running Windows Media Player or iTunes.

As for the use of the expression "TF", in this case I think it is justified. I'm simply repeating the words on everybody's lips every time the stupid machine lets this happen. Anyone who has had SB destroy the "mood" this way just as the evening's in full flight (be that with a room full of people or 1+1), would swear too ;)

Nostromo
2008-02-10, 07:48
Man, I don't even know how to save a playlist with the remote. I use Squeezecenter/Slimserver for that. But I see your point. Maybe it could be a little more user-friendly and fool-proof (with the possibility for more advanced users to opt out) But they made great strides with SC 7. And SqueezeCenter is evolving a lot faster now that Logitech acquired SlimDevices.

A little piece of advice: if you want to be heard, don't say stuff like "why Squeezebox sucks". You have to realize that a lot of people here also worked one way or another on Squeezecenter/Slimserver. So they tend to take such remarks personally.

haunyack
2008-02-10, 08:35
he made a perfect good decision of removing your thread.

I agree.
If he had not, I would have given edit to clean it up.

While the software is officially "beta", it's late stage development that is primarily focused on the new Logitech toy Duet.

I've been using the beta releases for about 2 years now and have NEVER been stumped (although thoroughly frustrated) as I was the other night.


.

Pale Blue Ego
2008-02-10, 09:19
Maybe there could be an option to automatically save playlists, like "save the previous playlist whenever playlist changes" and call them temp1.m3u, temp2.m3u, etc up to 5 playlists.

or

an option to "save current playlist every x minutes"

Maybe even date and time stamp the filenames, like:

Feb-09-2008_18-46-23.m3u

Metoo
2008-02-10, 09:22
Man, I don't even know how to save a playlist with the remote. I use Squeezecenter/Slimserver for that. But I see your point. Maybe it could be a little more user-friendly and fool-proof (with the possibility for more advanced users to opt out) But they made great strides with SC 7. And SqueezeCenter is evolving a lot faster now that Logitech acquired SlimDevices.

A little piece of advice: if you want to be heard, don't say stuff like "why Squeezebox sucks". You have to realize that a lot of people here also worked one way or another on Squeezecenter/Slimserver. So they tend to take such remarks personally.

Fair comment, and sorry if it comes across too strong. But painful as it may be to hear, for Squeezebox to be sucessfull, it has to comepete in the real world, and the sentiments expressed are those of real users.

You guys have the power to change that, by perhaps changing the behaviour so the "Play" becomes "Play Now", after which the SB resumes the previous list?

peter
2008-02-10, 09:50
Metoo wrote:
> Nostromo;267682 Wrote:
>
>> Man, I don't even know how to save a playlist with the remote. I use
>> Squeezecenter/Slimserver for that. But I see your point. Maybe it could
>> be a little more user-friendly and fool-proof (with the possibility for
>> more advanced users to opt out) But they made great strides with SC 7.
>> And SqueezeCenter is evolving a lot faster now that Logitech acquired
>> SlimDevices.
>>
>> A little piece of advice: if you want to be heard, don't say stuff like
>> "why Squeezebox sucks". You have to realize that a lot of people here
>> also worked one way or another on Squeezecenter/Slimserver. So they
>> tend to take such remarks personally.
>>
>
> Fair comment, and sorry if it comes across too strong. But painful as
> it may be to hear, for Squeezebox to be sucessfull, it has to comepete
> in the real world, and the sentiments expressed are those of real
> users.
>
> You guys have the power to change that, by perhaps changing the
> behaviour so the "Play" becomes "Play Now", after which the SB resumes
> the previous list?
>

You could change the 'Play' button to perform the 'Pause' (& unpause)
function in the IR definitions file. That way you can only add songs
with the '+' button and you have to use the web interface for erasing
the playlist. Might work well in a party situation. The fact that you
can do this so easily is why squeezebox doesn't suck.

Regards,
Peter

jsprag
2008-02-10, 09:52
Most media players allow you to define the action taken by double clicking on a song. It can either be played immediately or added to the end of the "Now Playing" list.

How about an option in Squeezecenter that allows you to define the action taken when you press the play button? It could do one of three things:

1. Immediately clear playlist and play song.
2. Append song to end of "Now Playing" (yes, I know the Add button does this)
3. Insert song as the next song in "Now Playing"

kdf
2008-02-10, 10:01
On 10-Feb-08, at 8:52 AM, jsprag wrote:

>
> Most media players allow you to define the action taken by double
> clicking on a song. It can either be played immediately or added to
> the end of the "Now Playing" list.
>
> How about an option in Squeezecenter that allows you to define the
> action taken when you press the play button? It could do one of three
> things:
>
> 1. Immediately clear playlist and play song.
> 2. Append song to end of "Now Playing" (yes, I know the Add button
> does
> this)
> 3. Insert song as the next song in "Now Playing"

Edit default map and you have all these options and more.
simply swap the play_0, play_1 and play_2 button options as you see
fit. 0 clears and plays, 1 adds to end, 2 inserts as next song.
-kdf

Nostromo
2008-02-10, 10:02
Fair comment, and sorry if it comes across too strong. But painful as it may be to hear, for Squeezebox to be sucessfull, it has to comepete in the real world, and the sentiments expressed are those of real users.

You guys have the power to change that, by perhaps changing the behaviour so the "Play" becomes "Play Now", after which the SB resumes the previous list?

I didn't contribute myself, BTW. I don't have the technical know-how or the time :( SC 7 is huge step up, IMO. And it'll get better and better a lot faster than in the pre-Logitech days.

radish
2008-02-10, 10:26
I've been using the beta releases for about 2 years now and have NEVER been stumped (although thoroughly frustrated) as I was the other night.


Then you should be happy that you're so lucky. It doesn't matter whether it's late beta or whatever else, if it's not an official release than the only thing anyone in the dev community will do if you find a problem is thank you and add it to the bug list. Most companies don't let you run the beta software for exactly this reason - to prevent people who don't understand what pre-release means getting upset when it breaks (which it inevitably does). If I were having a big party which I wanted to use SC for the first thing I'd do is downgrade back to 6.5.4.

haunyack
2008-02-10, 10:32
If I were having a big party which I wanted to use SC for the first thing I'd do is downgrade back to 6.5.4.

That was my first mistake.
My second mistake was venting on the forum before I gave myself a chance to get over it.
I'll do the best to prevent my third mistake. (profanity)

Cheers!

.

DrNic
2008-02-10, 12:47
Doesn't "Press and hold Play" - save the current playlist? I've not had reason to use it for a while so I guess this functionality might not exist anymore...
Not quite the same as 20+ key presses if it is still there though.

Nic

peterw
2008-02-10, 12:49
I'm sure we've been here before, or is it deju vue all over again? I think there is a clear need for a party-mode plugin which would disable all setting changes and only allow you to add tracks to the end of the playlist.

Have access through the web UI (password protected) for "fixing" the playlist when someone has lined up 16 consecutive plays of The Birdy Song.

For extra credit, have configuration options in the plugin to allow the use of the "play" (ie wipe playlist) button when you have a well-trained (sober!) group visiting.

For extra extra credit, hide all of the unnecessary menu options.

Maybe even allow configuration settings to hide certain genres completely (I know, I've probably gone too far here).

Would the NoSetup plugin be a good place to start?

I think having the option to present an "Are you sure?" confirmation screen when replacing a playlist would be a good idea -- Rockbox has something similar. There could be three options:
1) default: do what the user asks without nagging
2) confirmation: present the "are you sure" confirmation screen when the requested action would change the playlist. It would be good for this screen to remind the user if any other players are synced with this one.
3) lockdown: require the user to enter a code with the remote's keypad in order to replace the playlist
It should only apply to IR commands, and probably should have an option to either control just the Play button, or Play and add. I'd probably have it in "confirmation" mode all the time, but only applied to the Play button.

Menu config -- someone should write SettingsManager (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40924) which, at Phase Three, would allow users to make & save a "party config" including modified/simplified menus.

There is a much simpler solution to the party play problem: make a copy of the Slim_Devices_Remote.ir file (Slim_Devices_Remote_Party.ir ?), remove the entries for any button you don't want users to have access to (play, add, all 10 digits, sleep, etc. -- perhaps you'd only enable a few like volume, fwd, rew, and pause) and use the Web UI to only enable the Party .ir file for that player. The host would use a web browser to make any changes.

jeffmeh
2008-02-10, 13:05
I suppose that I have been using the Squeezeboxen long enough that I am used to the remote interface. However, I do remember making the same "mistake" numerous times in the early days (hitting play and clearing out a playlist that I had spent a bunch of time putting together).

I agree with the OP that this action is not very intuitive from a user interface design perspective. Intuitively, who is going to think that "play" is really "clear current playlist and play," before either reading the manual or learning through error? Perhaps it would have been better to map "play" to something non-destructive, like "add as next song to playlist, if already playing then continue, if not already playing then play it." "+" could be "add to end of playlist" and "holding +" could be "clear current playlist and play."

There are probably even better alternatives. My basic point is that the novice is almost guaranteed to hit play before he knows what he is doing.

pfarrell
2008-02-10, 13:13
jeffmeh wrote:
> I suppose that I have been using the Squeezeboxen long enough that I am
> used to the remote interface.

I never used the normal remove on my SquuezeBoxen or Transporter.
I use a laptop with a web browser. Have for years.

Just getting used to the Controller. Which is cool, but
a webpage is a lot easier to use than any of the standard
remotes.

pichonCalavera
2008-02-10, 13:31
I would vote for the Undo option, I actually been having this problem since before I used Squeezecenter/Slimserver, I used Winamp and I would add music from Windows Explorer and occasionally by mistake I choosed the Play function and wiped all my playlist, and every time I shout, there should be an Undo function!

And since we are on the topic of playlists, I think a way for removing more than one songs at a time from the playlist is a must, becuase sometimes I change my mind and want to remove some songs I added, and it's a pain to press the Delete button on each and every song i want to remove. I guess I became to familiar with the Winamp way of handling playlists, there I could choose many songs with Shift or Ctrl, but since this a web app, I'm not sure how much can be acomplished without turning it into a slow app.

Oh, and I wish the playlist was numbered, so at least I can see how many songs have been added. And show the total playtime of the playlist at the bottom... ok I'll stop now :)

jsprag
2008-02-10, 15:04
On 10-Feb-08, at 8:52 AM, jsprag wrote:

>
> Most media players allow you to define the action taken by double
> clicking on a song. It can either be played immediately or added to
> the end of the "Now Playing" list.
>
> How about an option in Squeezecenter that allows you to define the
> action taken when you press the play button? It could do one of three
> things:
>
> 1. Immediately clear playlist and play song.
> 2. Append song to end of "Now Playing" (yes, I know the Add button
> does
> this)
> 3. Insert song as the next song in "Now Playing"

Edit default map and you have all these options and more.
simply swap the play_0, play_1 and play_2 button options as you see
fit. 0 clears and plays, 1 adds to end, 2 inserts as next song.
-kdf

Unless I'm missing something in the settings page, this requires me to ssh to my headless server, open up the file in a text editor, make the changes, and then re-start Squeezecenter.

Please tell me if I'm overlooking something.

maggior
2008-02-10, 21:34
I'm sure we've been here before, or is it deju vue all over again? I think there is a clear need for a party-mode plugin which would disable all setting changes and only allow you to add tracks to the end of the playlist.

Have access through the web UI (password protected) for "fixing" the playlist when someone has lined up 16 consecutive plays of The Birdy Song.

For extra credit, have configuration options in the plugin to allow the use of the "play" (ie wipe playlist) button when you have a well-trained (sober!) group visiting.

For extra extra credit, hide all of the unnecessary menu options.

Maybe even allow configuration settings to hide certain genres completely (I know, I've probably gone too far here).

Would the NoSetup plugin be a good place to start?


Sound like a kiosk mode for the squeezebox.

mflint
2008-02-11, 02:16
I suppose that I have been using the Squeezeboxen long enough that I am used to the remote interface. However, I do remember making the same "mistake" numerous times in the early days (hitting play and clearing out a playlist that I had spent a bunch of time putting together).

I agree with the OP that this action is not very intuitive from a user interface design perspective. Intuitively, who is going to think that "play" is really "clear current playlist and play," before either reading the manual or learning through error?
I tend to think of "Play" as meaning "Play Now", and it's probably been the default behaviour for too long to consider changing it in SqueezeCenter.

I would agree that there may be an opportunity for a 'party mode' which would change the default Play behaviour, present a customized main menu, remove access to 'settings', etc...

But, whether it's intuitive or not, it doesn't make the Squeezebox "suck". A silly start to (yet another) thread.

Matthew

ceejay
2008-02-11, 02:47
Unless I'm missing something in the settings page, this requires me to ssh to my headless server, open up the file in a text editor, make the changes, and then re-start Squeezecenter.

Please tell me if I'm overlooking something.

You are kind of right ... you need to do that once, and rather than editing the default.map file you should create a very simple extra file (party.map, say) which just amends the commands you want to change (could be just the play button!). Having done that once you can then use the normal web interface to specify that you want to use this .map file on this player.

This makes it easy to change between modes without having to edit files, and also means that your customisation won't be blown away next time you do an upgrade.

Annoyingly, the menu option to select an alternative .map file is completely suppressed until you place a .map file in the right folder, so you can very easily miss this functionality!

The only downside with this quick switch is that you do, AFAIK, have to restart the server for the .map files to be read. It would be nice if there were a button you could push from the web UI to force the mappings to be updated, but I don't know how hard that would be.

My only puzzle with this is that I was playing with this very function yesterday and although I was definitely getting my custom .map file read (as another change was effective), I couldn't get the play button redefined. I was probably missing something myself....

Ceejay

ltb76
2008-02-11, 06:49
Funny how posters have problems at 'parties', maybe there should be a 'designated squeezebox user' allowing everyone else to get hammered?

A Party PlugIN would make sense in my setup.
I love my Squeezeboxes (all 4 of them) but when my ”non Squeezebox” friends stop by for a party they often have difficulties administering the Squeezebox. And on top of that are the normal “Party music” problems. Some one stops the music in the middle of a track, or some one wants to listen to the complete work from ACDC. All in all , smooth party music for me often means a dedicated DJ.
But the Squeezebox / Slimserver could solve that problem with a Jukebox PlugIN

Features,
-Disable deletion of music from playlist.
-Only allow x songs from the same artist (looking at the last 10 entries)
-Block access to settings
-Simplified menu

It could be called "I have annoying friends" :)

Mark Lanctot
2008-02-11, 06:53
No...I have not filed a "bug report" and do not intend to.

Well then how do you expect your problems to go away? Do you think they'll become aware of your problem through psychic divination?

It's obviously working on their machines. Rant as you will, they wouldn't put out something that was obviously broken. So if they don't know, they will have to assume things are OK.


I don't care to be involved with the development aspect of this so-called "solution".
Logitech has plenty of resources to pay for their own focus group, I just want to use the hardware.

Isn't this like whining and complaining that your car won't start but refusing to take it to the garage for repair because the car company won't send their own mechanics to your house? And being upset that the car company didn't do so because you very clearly made an irate forum post - which should be enough to send their development team scrambling?

gbruzzo
2008-02-11, 07:21
jeffmeh wrote:
> I suppose that I have been using the Squeezeboxen long enough that I am
> used to the remote interface.

I never used the normal remove on my SquuezeBoxen or Transporter.
I use a laptop with a web browser. Have for years.

Just getting used to the Controller. Which is cool, but
a webpage is a lot easier to use than any of the standard
remotes.

I sympathise (see the sooloos solution on www.sooloos.com) with this approach. Once issues of network lag will have been completely banished, I feel this will be the most natural and intuitive interface (imagine a very large touch screen with ipod touch friendlyness (eg multitouch interface)). I would love to see a larger, portable touch screen interface (larger than the controller - which I have ordered and am waiting for eagerly): this is something Logitech might very well do one day, and it makes more sense to me than some of the "fat" player solutions people have been invoking recently.

Robin Bowes
2008-02-11, 07:55
gbruzzo wrote:
I would love to see a larger, portable touch
> screen interface (larger than the controller - which I have ordered and
> am waiting for eagerly): this is something Logitech might very well do
> one day, and it makes more sense to me than some of the "fat" player
> solutions people have been invoking recently.


That makes sense to me too. Something like a large, 12"-14" touch-screen
that could hang on the wall or sit on your lap. It would have a
kiosk-type interface, like the juke boxes you get in pubs these days.


R.

servies
2008-02-11, 08:30
I sympathise (see the sooloos solution on www.sooloos.com) with this approach.
I don't think you will sympathise with the prices for sooloos stuff ;)
You can buy about 6 transporters for the price of a complete sooloos system...

exile
2008-02-11, 09:04
I too have frustrations with the squeezebox but overall I think it's a heck of a satisfying product. However, some of your frustrations could be avoided by preparing playlists prior to having people over and/or just not letting others touch the remote control. I'm a bit perplexed as to why you'd want other folks picking out the music selections during a party. I've yet to have anyone ask to select music at my house during a party.

Khuli
2008-02-11, 09:05
You can buy about 6 transporters for the price of a complete sooloos system...

Wow - you're not kidding
http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2007/107sooloos/

jeffmeh
2008-02-11, 09:19
I too have frustrations with the squeezebox but overall I think it's a heck of a satisfying product. However, some of your frustrations could be avoided by preparing playlists prior to having people over and/or just not letting others touch the remote control. I'm a bit perplexed as to why you'd want other folks picking out the music selections during a party. I've yet to have anyone ask to select music at my house during a party.

That's my party solution also. Set up the playlist in advance, start it playing, and hide the remote.

hellesangel
2008-02-11, 09:20
Wow - you're not kidding
http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2007/107sooloos/
At a first glance I'd say that thing is not worth it. It's expensive partially because they've got 1Tb of flash memory in there which is a very odd choice. Well, it's a great choice if you've got money to burn but look here:
http://www.storagesearch.com/semico-art1.html
Flash is a factor of 100 more expensive than HDD and contributes nothing to the overall performance of the device, and is a very expensive solution to the disk noise problem. The $300 SqueezeBox does a reasonable job straight out of the box (I have it connected to a $50,000 stereo which reveals bad input quite well) leaving $12,700 to spend on the much more tricky analogue stuff, which I would guess would give a higher end audio quality.

That's my party solution also. Set up the playlist in advance, start it playing, and hide the remote.
Somewhere there's a SlimServer plugin that locks the UI down, hiding all the dangerous stuff behind a password but allowing people to fiddle with the current playlist.

maggior
2008-02-11, 09:44
Funny how posters have problems at 'parties', maybe there should be a 'designated squeezebox user' allowing everyone else to get hammered?

Too funny. Carrying this line of thinking further, for further security a breathalyzer plug-in could be developed to disable the playlist update functionality when the user's blood-alcohol level is above a certain threshold. As a further bonus, in the event of an inibriated party goer changing the playlist, the music could be interrupted with a stern announment saying "sir or madam, please step away from the squeezebox remote...please step away from the squeezebox remote NOW!...Thank you... We now bring you back to our previously programmed playlist".

I think a sensor should be put into the new remote to facilitate this.

bephillips
2008-02-11, 13:34
I like the idea of a party plug-in, but am thankful to Kevin (for only about the thirteenth time today) for the remapping remote solution for party mode. Change the play button to "play next", add stays add. Invoke the custom party.map and then remove settings from the SB menu during the party, and this would seem to take care of most of the damage that could be done by the inexperienced remote user.

Sometimes its fun to let other people loose on your music collection at a party, they'll find stuff that you might not have thought to play. I mean, I like everything (almost) in my collection, so why not let guests select what they'd like to hear?

I'd like my friends to be more comfortable using the SB, without having to train them extensively, and if I could hand them the remote and tell them to play around with it, without having to worry that they might mess something up, that would be a good thing. In fact, I can see having the SB in party mode all the time, because I don't use the remote UI that much, preferring the browser UI.

haunyack
2008-02-11, 15:06
Well then...?


Mark,

You are correct sir.

I have been uncharacteristically grumpy as of late.
My recent rants have been off the mark. (no pun)

Trouble is, when I get mad and kick the dog...he kicks back.

I'll try to be a bit more involved in the process going forward and less of a sideline heckler.

I uh...gee i uh...gosh well I...

.

kolding
2008-02-11, 15:24
Funny how posters have problems at 'parties', maybe there should be a 'designated squeezebox user' allowing everyone else to get hammered?

Hide the remote where those pesky guests can't find it? Doesn't work if you have a Transporter, but would do great for the Squeezeboxen...

Eric

aubuti
2008-02-11, 15:39
At a first glance I'd say that thing is not worth it. It's expensive partially because they've got 1Tb of flash memory in there which is a very odd choice.
I'm not sure about the main storage being flash. The Stereophile article quotes the Sooloos honcho as saying "...so no fans and no moving discs within the audio portion of the system. We use flash there and house the noisy stuff elsewhere." From that, I read that they use flash in the "Control series", and HDDs in the "Source series". That would make sense, but it's still an expensive piece of kit.

Kurt
2008-02-11, 16:00
So you're having a party demonstrating how easy to use Squeezebox and Slimserver is, or just getting comfortable, browsing the collection and adding what you want to hear with the Add + button like any old juke box.

Then somebody goes and presses the Play instead, and all the previous requests are instantly wiped out.

Somebody says, it's on a computer, right? So you can get it all back?

You go to playlists, and it says Empty.

You give the guests or company the choice of starting from scratch, or going home.

WhyTF are "Add +" or Play tracks not automatically stored in a temporary playlist that has an "undo" feature or is recoverable?

Or am I doing something wrong?


Funny, I posted this question a while back myself. I like the functionality of add to the list, build a list, and then even play that wipes out the list, but sometimes I have done it by accident.

For the IU, It would be nice to have some type of party mode skin that would put everything in the "queue", so there is only a play button, and everything else you want to play goes to the bottom of the queue. To build on that, permitting only certain genres, etc, would be nice too.

I guess that opens up a can of worms, but there has been many times I've wanted that option. Not just for parties, but just for quick entries of a bunch of songs and albums I'm in the mood for.

Mark Lanctot
2008-02-12, 08:34
Mark,

You are correct sir.

I have been uncharacteristically grumpy as of late.
My recent rants have been off the mark. (no pun)

Trouble is, when I get mad and kick the dog...he kicks back.

I'll try to be a bit more involved in the process going forward and less of a sideline heckler.

I uh...gee i uh...gosh well I...

.

Understood!

I'm not sure what SS/SC version you're running (or trying to run :-) ) but I've been closely following SC7 and the SBC software.

The bug fixes and changes have been coming fast and furious for months now. How these guys find enough hours in the day I don't know.

They really are very, very responsive, fixing several issues a day, sometimes in the same hour it was reported. Replicating the problem appears to be the hardest issue though.

The changes in SC7 have been tremendous, but the SBC tops them all. The beta unit I got back in September was a really cool toy but quite quirky. Now it is smooth and polished. It's still got the occasional twitch but the improvement has been immense.

Software will always have bugs no matter how much development time and how many billions of dollars are devoted to it (cough*Vista*cough, cough). Rant posts must be quite discouraging to the developers. They know there will be problems and don't seem to mind hearing about them, they do want to tackle bugs but can't do anything with generalized, non-specific posts which have no documentation of the problem or follow-up. Those problems will be ignored, must to the frustration of the person encountering the problem.

But the fact of the matter is, there are lots of bugs in the bug list and the ones affecting a large portion of the users and the ones that are well-documented are tackled first.

seanadams
2008-02-12, 16:38
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