PDA

View Full Version : Sorting by Album Artist



Wigster
2008-01-13, 10:54
Hi,

I would like to get my artist list to be purely sorted by Album Artist, and the individual artists to be hidden effectively. I would also like these Album Artists not to appear in Various Atrists, but in the main Artist menu.

Is that possible? I am using SC7 under Windows.

Thanks.

Wonk
2008-01-13, 13:14
When you say

I would like to get my artist list to be purely sorted by Album Artist

I assume you mean "I'd like my artist list to contain my album artists, and not the artists listed against each track"

As it happens, I've spent this afternoon investigating this area, trying to figure out if I can get compilations to work as I'd like them to.

As far as I can tell you should just be able to set the ALBUMARTIST tag (if you're using flac - you don't say what format you're using) and SqueezeCenter will do what you want: only the album artists will apear in the artist list.

However, if the COMPILATION flag is set on your files, this behaviour seems to break regardless of the ALBUMARTIST tag's presence or lack, and you'll be back to seeing either all the individual artists, or just 'Various Artists' depending on what you've set the grouping to in Server Settings -> Music Library -> Compilations.

HTH,

-- Wonk

Wigster
2008-01-13, 14:25
Right now, I am using mostly MP3s, although I am about to start reripping my CDs to FLAC.

As you say, I would like for the Artist list to contain only the ALBUMARTIST tag for each album and not the individual artists.

Currently the way it is arranged seems a little random. I don't seem to have have the Compilation flag set on any of the files, but a few of the Albums appear in the Various Artists category, while most are listed by the individual artist.

What stops me from experimenting too much, is that any change necessitates a rescan of the library that takes about 30 mins here. I may end up creating a smaller library for some tests.

What are your settings on the Behaviour page in the Squeezecenter set up?

Wigster
2008-01-13, 20:14
I've been experimenting on a small subset of my library and I can't figure it out:

I want only Album artists (I think it's what is called Band by SC7) to appear in the library, but no Various Artists.

Albums are mainly in mp3 format and each is in its own directory. They have multiple artists set, but each has it's own Album Artist constant across its directory. The compilation flag is not set.

I am using Tag & Rename 3.4 to do this.

It seems like only the "Group compilations" flag in SC7 does anything. If I have it set to Group, I get only Various Artists in my library, if not -- then I get the 56 artists which make up the 4 CDs I chose to put in my mini-library.

Switching "list albums by band" seems to have no impact, even thought I think this is what should turn on my desired behaviour. Switching on "Band in Artists" seems to do nothing too. Switching the Compilation flag in T&R seems to do nothing.

When I switch the settings, I clear the library and rescan.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks.

Wonk
2008-01-17, 13:28
Wigster,

Sorry for the slow response, been having 'one of those weeks'.

It looks from the thread in the beta forum that you've answered most of the question above, if not to a satisfactory conclusion.

The problem seems to be that the behavior you (and I) want for grouping artists is dependent on having the ALBUMARTIST tag set, which is okay for flac files, but not ideal for MP3s, and there's no way to actually say 'treat the BAND tag like ALBUMARTIST', which I think would get you to where you want to be.

My setup so far has a purely flac library for SqueezeCenter (not sure yet what to do about my MP3's that I don't have source material for) with a mirrored set of mp3 files exported for use on iPods/iTunes via Robin Bowes flac2mp3 script, which I've slightly tweaked so it maps flac ALBUMARTIST to TPE2 instead of BAND, and also sets the compilation flag if an ALBUMARTIST is set, which is not ideal, but for my collection I've only set AA on compilation cds, so it lets me have a sane view in iTunes.

torbj
2008-01-27, 13:40
As far as I can tell you should just be able to set the ALBUMARTIST tag (if you're using flac - you don't say what format you're using) and SqueezeCenter will do what you want: only the album artists will apear in the artist list.

However, if the COMPILATION flag is set on your files, this behaviour seems to break regardless of the ALBUMARTIST tag's presence or lack, and you'll be back to seeing either all the individual artists, or just 'Various Artists' depending on what you've set the grouping to in Server Settings -> Music Library -> Compilations.

HTH,

-- Wonk

I've tried this for my flac files, but it does not work. Weird thing is, it works for my flac files that EAC tagged with ID3v2 tags (bad practice, according to HA-forums), but not the properly(?) tagged files dBPoweramp produced.

I've tried ALBUM ARTIST, ALBUMARTIST, BAND and TPE2 (IIRC), but no luck.

So what tag will do the trick for me?

Edit: I'm using
SqueezeCenter Version: 7.0 - 16779 - Windows XP - EN - cp1252
Perl Version: 5.8.8 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread
MySQL Version: 5.0.22-community-nt

If that matters.

monchos
2008-01-30, 19:43
Same situation as torbj, tried everything I read but still getting various artists or all the artists within an album.

ModelCitizen
2008-02-02, 01:19
I have been playing around with this recently with my Flac files (tagged correctly with what are called alternately "FLAC tags" or "Vorbis comments").

I really wanted to put the record label into the Album Artist tag so I could choose to play all albums by say, the Ultimae or Fax labels.

However, this worked perfectly as long as the tracks on the albums were all by the same artist but found it broke with albums where the Compilation=1 was set (i.e. Various Artists albums) in the asame way as Wonk describes in post 2.

I then removed the ALBUMARTIST tag from my Various Artist albums and gave up.

In my experience the whole Various Artists area in SlimServer causes ongoing problems. There is just something fundamentally wrong with the implemention and it really should to be looked again by the devlopers.

I wonder whther it's worth raising a bug for this particular issue if there is not one listed already?

MC

bulletmark
2008-02-02, 05:07
I new to the SB and music files in general but I agree that this whole tagging issue is way too complicated and a bit of a mess. However, it seems to be a mess generally across the whole spectrum of music players and software, not SC specifically. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and trying to get SC, amarok, and my ipod all to present my library correctly and consistently is proving very difficult.

For the record, I actually prefer that misc compilation tracks are included at the end of the specific artist listing (but not included to pollute the global artist listing). However, I tried setting "List artists by band" just for a test here and it seemed not to change anything for me, the misc tracks were still listed under the specific artist. Possibly this setting requires the "album artist" tag to be commonly set, or another "band" tag? I think it would help if SC indicated which tags are appropriate to the each setting. I know the UI designers would say "no, too much info for the average user", but without stating those tag names even sophisticated users can't work out how to use it, how's an average user ever going to?

ModelCitizen
2008-02-02, 07:03
I think the Band setting has no relation to ALBUMARTIST or COMPILATION=1. It is something to do with the BAND or TPE2 tag (which I've never used... so there is a reasonble chance I'm not correct).

I agree that there is not one player that has the tag stuff right... and they all seem to differ just enough to make things quite annoying.

I'd be very satisfied with the way SlimServer did things if it were not for the fact I can't play the whole output of one record label by one record label if it their output includes any Various Artists albums (unless I so something silly like make the record label a Genre or an Artist).

MC

smc2911
2008-03-23, 00:27
I must admit to still being pretty confused about this too. I had pretty much sorted myself out using the BAND tag, but have started to prefer the ALBUMARTIST tag, but now I'm missing a number of artists from my browsing lists. http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6629

mr356
2008-03-23, 10:18
This slightly off the previous discussions but it still relates as to how artists are sorted. Here's a strange thing. I have several albums by a french singer France Gall. All other artists are sorted by their first name which is how the songs are tagged. However France Gall ends up in the Gs not under F as I would expect. I see that there is a setting for "Articles To Ignore When Sorting", but why is "France" ignored in this case?

smc2911
2008-03-23, 13:31
This track would have an ARTISTSORT tag which contains "Gall, France". Have a look here for more info: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44930

mr356
2008-03-23, 14:41
I used MediaMonkey, Mp3Tag and Windows Media Player to check the advanced or extended tags on these MP3 files. Nowhere did I see ARTISTSORT tags. Is there an editor that has this option? The weird thing is that I have her songs on 16 albums including several compilation albums and on the compilation albums all the other artists are sorted correctly.

smc2911
2008-03-23, 15:30
I'm confident that this will be a tagging issue (SC will not guess an artist name by itself). Using mp3tag, select a track and press alt-T and this will show (almost) all the tags. The other thing to look out for is multiple tag versions. When you get the (alt-T) tags window up, have a look at the title bar of the box. If you see something like this
Tags ID3v2.3 (ID3v1 ID3v2.3)it means that you have both v1 and v2.3 tags but only the v2.3 tags are displayed in the list. You could have some ARTISTSORT tags buried in the v1 tags. The best thing to do in this case is to ditch the v1 tags. The way to do this is to go to Tools > Options > Tags > Mpeg and under Remove check ID3v1 and uncheck ID3v2. Then select the track with the offending v1 tags and click the remove tag button (red X) or use File > Remove tag. You can, of course, do this for multiple tracks at once. This way you can be sure than absolutely none of your France Gall tracks have an ARTISTSORT tag.

P.S. 1000th post. Woohoo!

mr356
2008-03-23, 16:02
There is a BANDSORTORDER tag option in Mp3tag and I guess this is the same as ARTISTSORTORDER, but I have never assigned this tag to any file. I did as you suggested for one album and nothing like a SORT tag showed up.

Notice that the path in SqueezeCenter is "Home>Artists>France Gall....". But France Gall is under G.

smc2911
2008-03-23, 16:39
SC displays the ARTIST not the ARTISTSORT value, it just uses ARTISTSORT for sorting. Also, I'm a bit surprised your tag box doesn't have a title bar, like the one below. Also, what have you got as your Tags > Mpeg options (see below)?

slimkid
2008-03-23, 19:33
I used MediaMonkey, Mp3Tag and Windows Media Player to check the advanced or extended tags on these MP3 files. Nowhere did I see ARTISTSORT tags. Is there an editor that has this option? The weird thing is that I have her songs on 16 albums including several compilation albums and on the compilation albums all the other artists are sorted correctly.

any chance this is a compilation album and there's some other artist that starts with 'G'?

mr356
2008-03-23, 20:32
See my screenshot showing Tags > Mpeg options.

As for Slimkid's question. No this is not a compilation, She is the only artist. I have 6 albums uniquely by France Gall and she is on another 10 compilation albums. All 16 albums show up under G not F.

smc2911
2008-03-24, 01:08
Hmmmm. Curiouser and curiouser. Have you check the tags of all of the France Gall files? I'm pretty sure that it only takes one track somewhere with an ARTISTSORT tag set and you'll have it set for everything. Also, even though the example you gave didn't seem to have v1 tags, it may still be worth forcing a clear of the v1 tags. To do this, in your options uncheck ID3v2 then select all France Gall tracks and click the Remove tag button, then do a delete everything and rescan.

mr356
2008-03-24, 06:58
I checked the tags on every track:

A - France Gall albums
B & C - All France Gall on compilations

I'll do the force clearing of the v1 tags as you suggested and I'll report back.

Zaragon
2008-03-24, 09:00
I noticed in your A sample that the Composer Tag is set to <keep> this means that there is something in at least one of the files with a composer tag and that it is different to other files (if they are the same it gives the value).

Could it be that the offending files have a value for Composer that is Gall France? SqueezeCentre has a library option to include Composer tags with Artist tags (treat them as the same). So if you have that option selected that may be where it is coming from.

If you don't have that option selected but there is such a composer then maybe there is a bug.

raglencross
2008-03-24, 12:02
I'm not sure if the original post in this thread has been answered, so here's an approach that works for me:
1. For compilation albums, set ALBUMARTIST to whom\what you wish to show up in SS7 Artist List.
2.Do not use the COMPILATION tag.
3.If you set ALBUMARTIST=Various Artists, then it is absolutely necessary that you set "When compilation albums are grouped together,etc." under Library Settings to something else other than "Various Artist", say "Complitions'. It appears that SS7 regards "Various Artists" as a reserved word whether or not the COMPILATION tag is set.
4.You must clear and rescan whenever you make tag changes. I suspect that a lot of you are not doing this resulting in the confusing results you are seeing. Believe me, I've been there! For starters, SS7 seems to deal unpredictably with altered tags if left to itself and not much better when asked to rescan looking for new and changed music only.

Hope this helps.

mr356
2008-03-24, 18:24
I noticed in your A sample that the Composer Tag is set to <keep> this means that there is something in at least one of the files with a composer tag and that it is different to other files (if they are the same it gives the value).

Could it be that the offending files have a value for Composer that is Gall France? SqueezeCentre has a library option to include Composer tags with Artist tags (treat them as the same). So if you have that option selected that may be where it is coming from.

If you don't have that option selected but there is such a composer then maybe there is a bug.

I had already checked that. There are a handful of composers but no Gall France. I believe that I do have the library option as you described. See below.


I'm not sure if the original post in this thread has been answered, so here's an approach that works for me:
1. For compilation albums, set ALBUMARTIST to whom\what you wish to show up in SS7 Artist List.
2.Do not use the COMPILATION tag.
3.If you set ALBUMARTIST=Various Artists, then it is absolutely necessary that you set "When compilation albums are grouped together,etc." under Library Settings to something else other than "Various Artist", say "Complitions'. It appears that SS7 regards "Various Artists" as a reserved word whether or not the COMPILATION tag is set.
4.You must clear and rescan whenever you make tag changes. I suspect that a lot of you are not doing this resulting in the confusing results you are seeing. Believe me, I've been there! For starters, SS7 seems to deal unpredictably with altered tags if left to itself and not much better when asked to rescan looking for new and changed music only.

Hope this helps.

1. That does not work since compilation albums ARE various artists. It would not make sense to set them to a single artist.
2. I'm not using any COMPILATION tags.
3. As you can see below that the field for "When compilation albums are grouped together, they appear under "Various Artists" by default. You can change that name below." is blank. I will change it to Compilations as you suggest.
4. I have done clear and scan not rescan looking for new and changed music.

Now for the bad news. I did the force clearing of all the v1 tags. I also removed all extraneous tags. See below. Then did a clear and scan. No change. France Gall is still under G.

How about if I remove all the albums (including the compilations), do a clear and scan. Then add the albums back in then rescan for new and changed music changes?

smc2911
2008-03-24, 19:51
Now for the bad news. I did the force clearing of all the v1 tags. I also removed all extraneous tags. See below. Then did a clear and scan. No change. France Gall is still under G.This is really starting to get mysterious. I don't know whether the turning on the scanning debugging flag would give enough information as to when the artist sort is picked up, but it may be worth a try.

JJZolx
2008-03-24, 20:48
How about if I remove all the albums (including the compilations), do a clear and scan. Then add the albums back in then rescan for new and changed music changes?

Are all files mp3?

In Mp3tag, how are you removing the id3v1 and Ape tags? If it's a tagging problem, Ape tags are much more likely to be the culprit, as they take precedence in SqueezeCenter over id3v2 tags. In Mp3tag you need to press the red 'X' button or Ctrl+R to remove tags. You can define a column to show you which tags a file contaings by right-clicking in the column headers on the right side and selecting 'Customize columns...', the 'New', Name: Tags, Value: %_tag%.

I would first just remove the compilations, leaving the full France Gall albums. Then rescan and see what you get.

There are some lingering problems with compilations, in particular dealing with the id3v2 BAND and some odd issues if you set BAND or ALBUMARTIST to the string 'Various Artists'. Try removing BAND.

raglencross
2008-03-25, 09:51
The key here is that when you do not set the COMPELATION tag then SS7 ceases to use any of the Library settings to try to group albums. When you have an album with a number of ARTIST then the album will be listed for each artist. Add the tag ALBUMARTIST to that album and it then will appear only under the designated album artist. If you prefer that the multi-artist show up in the artist list as a compilation, then set the ALBUMARTIST tag to "Various Artists", "Compilation", etc. If you elect to use "Various Artists", then you must make the change to the Library setting I specified in my previous msg in this thread. If you don't do this, "Various Artists" will contain no albums. I have no idea why except as I said previously, it probably is confusion caused by "Various Artist" being a default setting.

mr356
2008-03-25, 16:40
Are all files mp3?

In Mp3tag, how are you removing the id3v1 and Ape tags? If it's a tagging problem, Ape tags are much more likely to be the culprit, as they take precedence in SqueezeCenter over id3v2 tags. In Mp3tag you need to press the red 'X' button or Ctrl+R to remove tags. You can define a column to show you which tags a file contaings by right-clicking in the column headers on the right side and selecting 'Customize columns...', the 'New', Name: Tags, Value: %_tag%.

I would first just remove the compilations, leaving the full France Gall albums. Then rescan and see what you get.

There are some lingering problems with compilations, in particular dealing with the id3v2 BAND and some odd issues if you set BAND or ALBUMARTIST to the string 'Various Artists'. Try removing BAND.


They are all MP3s. Most are MPEG 1 LAYER III and a small handful are MPEG 2 LAYER III.

I added the custom tag column in Mp3tag as you suggested. There are no APE tags. All tags are ID3v2,4 or ID3v2,3 so I did successfully remove the ID3v1 and APE tags.

I removed the compilations albums and left the full albums. Once again did clear and scan. Same result. Still under G. So the issue is not the compilation albums.

I am determined to find the culprit so I am going to remove all albums then add the full albums back one at a time doing a clear and scan each time. This is going to take some time. I will keep you posted.

smc2911
2008-03-25, 16:49
Good luck! It's certainly proving very tricky to nail down. I did have one other thought: do you use MusicIP?

mr356
2008-03-25, 17:10
No, I don't use MusicIP.

mr356
2008-03-26, 13:02
I've found the guilty party. Only one album put it under G. Interestingly enough, this one has several composer tags, but nothing as Gall, France. See below a screen dump from Mp3tag.

I've uploaded the files to rapidshare:
http://rapidshare.com/files/102593350/France_Gall_-_1968.zip.html

Hopefully one of you guys can figure out what is going on.

JJZolx
2008-03-26, 13:16
I've found the guilty party. Only one album put it under G. Interestingly enough, this one has several composer tags, but nothing as Gall, France. See below a screen dump from Mp3tag.

I've uploaded the files to rapidshare:
http://rapidshare.com/files/102593350/France_Gall_-_1968.zip.html

Hopefully one of you guys can figure out what is going on.

Must be the 'G. Magenta/R. Bernet' entry. Offhand, I'd guess that's either the composer entry for the first or the last track in the album. If you uncheck 'Composer' under Settings > Music Library > Composer, Band and Orchestra in Artists then I'm guessing the sort problems go away.

This looks like some kind of bug with tag handling.

mr356
2008-03-26, 16:36
Well get this. I removed the composer tags, added the folder, & rescanned. Guess what? It's putting this album and the others that were previously under F back under G. So it's not the composer tag.

JJZolx
2008-03-26, 16:48
Well get this. I removed the composer tags, added the folder, & rescanned. Guess what? It's putting this album and the others that were previously under F back under G. So it's not the composer tag.

The fun never seems to end, eh?

mr356
2008-03-27, 07:49
I converted the flies to .wav then converted the .wav back to .mp3. This effectively stripped all the tags. I tagged the new files with Mp3tag then rescanned. The album is now under F as it should be. This eliminated the problem, but the original mystery is still not solved. Might there be hidden or corrupted tags that Mp3tag couldn't see but caused the problem in SC? If so, how can they be found? Is there a better tagging app?

Mark Lanctot
2008-04-02, 08:00
Yeah - it's a hex editor. It cannot be fooled and will display all tags embedded in the file, albeit in a slightly cryptic way.

Look for tags at the start and end of the file. The data in between is audio data.

I used one once just to find out where a spurious tag was coming from, it was an APE tag. Once I knew what it was, I deleted it in a proper tagging app, but you could probably delete the string using the hex editor (I never tried this, but it should work).