Quality of internet radio?

[joeriz]

I'm wondering if there are ANY internet radio stations out there that broadcast above 128k. I've been loving internet radio since getting my Squeezeboxes but 128k is just borderline acceptable in terms of sound quality. I'd be willing to pay for a subscription to a service that transmits at higher bitrates but from what I've read, there don't seem to be any (perhaps I'm missing something).

Any idea why this is? Is there no real demand for quality or is this a technology/bandwidth issue?

Thanks,
Joe

[toby10]

I'm wondering if there are ANY internet radio stations out there that broadcast above 128k. I've been loving internet radio since getting my Squeezeboxes but 128k is just borderline acceptable in terms of sound quality. I'd be willing to pay for a subscription to a service that transmits at higher bitrates but from what I've read, there don't seem to be any (perhaps I'm missing something).

Any idea why this is? Is there no real demand for quality or is this a technology/bandwidth issue?

Thanks,
Joe

They do exist, but they are rare as it costs the station a bundle to send out higher bitrates. I'd suggest two search methods:

1. Search through SqueezeNetwork's online GUI "browse" function, particularly ShoutCast and Live365. The resulting search displays the bit rate. Then just add the selected stations to your favorites. The draw back is that the results are not sorted by bitrate, so you will have to do a lot of scrolling.

2. Go directly to the providers web site like Shoutcast.com or Live365.com and you can limit the searches by minimum (higher) bitrates. The draw back here is you now must cut & paste the correct url feed into your favorites.

Both are doable and not overly complicated. Just takes some poking around. I can warn you though that many (if not all) ShoutCast streams saved to your favorites will not play from favorites after a short while. It's some bug in the interface between ShoutCast & SqueezeNetwork. I don't particularly care for Live365 so I don't know if saving Live365 streams to favorites is an issue or not.

[bpa]

Also - OGG and AACplus encoded streams are generally better quality at lower bit rate than MP3. However you will need a PC to help play these encodings on an SB.

[jmourik]

The prmium channels of Sky are 192K: http://www.sky.fm/

[NewBuyer]

...SqueezeNetwork's online GUI "browse" function... draw back is that the results are not sorted by bitrate, so you will have to do a lot of scrolling...

Actually it would be a nice improvement if things could be sorted by bitrate - I wonder if this is worth suggesting to SD. Would others like this feature too?

[toby10]

Actually it would be a nice improvement if things could be sorted by bitrate - I wonder if this is worth suggesting to SD. Would others like this feature too?

I know I would! Maybe add an option on SN as to how sorts/browses are displayed? bitrate, alpha, most popular, most current listeners, etc....

I think it currently sorts by most popular, which in and of itself is a decent indicator of the stations sound quality.

[mecouc]

www.radioparadise.com has a 192kb mp3 stream.. can't say whether it's your cup of tea though.

[joeriz]

Thanks all.

"They do exist, but they are rare as it costs the station a bundle to send out higher bitrates."

I'm curious...where's are the incremental costs incurred between, say, 128k and 192k?

Thanks!

[toby10]

Thanks all.

"They do exist, but they are rare as it costs the station a bundle to send out higher bitrates."

I'm curious...where's are the incremental costs incurred between, say, 128k and 192k?

Thanks!

Internet Radio stations pay for their outgoing stream feeds. The more that you and I download (listen) from their station (site) the more it costs them.

It's 1.5 times more bandwidth x the number of people listening. Imagen if your electric bill went up 1.5 times from what you are currently paying now. A 50% cost increase to any business is going to hurt. And it *really* puts the hurt on a small struggling business/industry like Internet Radio that is already in dire financial trouble.

128k to 192k and the audio difference is negligible. Better, but not outstandingly so. Jumping from 128k to 320k, now THERE is a significant audio difference.

BTW: Something to be careful of when limiting bitrate (searching or playing) is that you may be knocking out some great streams that sound very good. Try to keep an eye on the better encoded audio formats like Mp3Pro. An MP3Pro at 64k probably sounds equal to a standard MP3 at 128k.

[coldslabs]

Kexp

1.4Mbps Uncompressed Stream

https://www.kexp.org

http://www.kexp.org/about/uncompressedstream.asp

About the Uncompressed Stream


About KEXP's Uncompressed CD-Quality Stream

KEXP is the first radio station in the world to offer uncompressed audio on the internet.

You'll hear KEXP's broadcast in high-fidelity audio, with sound quality that is actually better than our FM signal. In fact, it's nearly CD quality.

* Regular internet radio streams at around 60 kilobits per second

* MP3's average about 160 kilobits per second

* KEXP's uncompressed audio streams at 1400 kilobits (1.4 megabits) per second.

To access it, you'll need Windows Media Player, version 6.3 or higher. You'll also need a high-speed connection such as:

* A full T1 connection

* An ethernet connection

* A fast DSL line

* A cable modem (may work -- depending on how busy your network is at the time)

Now you're ready to check out 24-hour uncompressed audio – only at KEXP.org!

More Information: "KEXP-FM Launches Live Uncompressed Audio to Internet Listeners Worldwide" - press release

[maggior]

BTW: Something to be careful of when limiting bitrate (searching or playing) is that you may be knocking out some great streams that sound very good. Try to keep an eye on the better encoded audio formats like Mp3Pro. An MP3Pro at 64k probably sounds equal to a standard MP3 at 128k.

This is true if you are using an MP3Pro decoder. The squeezebox does not have one - it decodes these streams as standard mp3 streams, so there is no improvement.

The only way to benefit from MP3Pro streams is to use the station's player on a PC.

[toby10]

1.4Mbps Uncompressed Stream

https://www.kexp.org

http://www.kexp.org/about/uncompressedstream.asp

AWSOME! It won't play through SN?

[toby10]

This is true if you are using an MP3Pro decoder. The squeezebox does not have one - it decodes these streams as standard mp3 streams, so there is no improvement.

The only way to benefit from MP3Pro streams is to use the station's player on a PC.

Yup. But if it were a 128k MP3Pro stream decoded to standard MP3 would it not be equal to (or close to) a 256k standard MP3 stream? Or am I not understanding this (which is very likely).

Or is it that to an SB3: 128k MP3Pro = 128k standard MP3?

EDIT: Ok, bpa set me str8 on this. Due to backwards compatability of MP3 formats a 64k MP3Pro is translated by SB3 as a 64k standard MP3. So no gain.

Doing a very quick search and quick count on ShoutCast.com shows the following "higher bit rate" MP3 stations:

bitrate = # of stations

320k = 38
256k = 50
224k = 225
192k = 370

I use all three of the "big boys" in Internet Radio streaming (ShoutCast, Live365, vTuner) and most of their station offerings are duplicates (showing up in all three sources) so I'd bet the above bitrate = # of stations is pretty close on all three services.

Hope this helps.