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Club1820
2007-12-17, 11:57
Was just wondering if all you early adapters would recommend upgrading to SC7 now as opposed to waiting for the official release? I am currently using 6.5.5 and am happy with it other than Sync problems (SB3 and Softsqueeze) which apparently this method is not improved with SC7. Although SB3 to SB3 Sync is improved.

I understand also that not all plugins are yet updated for SC7?
Is there a complete list somewhere as to which plugins work and which dont with SC7?

Thoughts/Comments?

Thanks in advance!

Secret Squirrel
2007-12-17, 12:06
I went for it. It was really rather painless for me because I use just a few plug-ins, so downloading new version wasn't a big deal. BTW, I'm running XP Pro on a wired network. I do like the changes to the web interface I find things a bit quicker. I do think there's a slight improvement in the sb to Softsqueeze realm but maybe that's wishful thinking. I have not run into any problems...so far ;) (It's been about 10 days for me.)

So, I'd say go for it.

-Stef-
2007-12-17, 14:31
I am thinking of upgrading to SC7 myself as well. I am using version 6.5.1. at the moment without a problem but now some Live365 stations tell me to log in while I already am.

The advice on this forum is to go to SC7. I hope I can switch to a nightly built without problems, because aside from the Live365 message I have no issues with version 6.5.1.

utowana
2007-12-17, 17:30
Well, I was not going to post on this topic, but since it has been raised, I'll share my experience. This weekend past, I upgraded and the install and config was painless and nicely thought out. Immediately, I noticed a slowdown in performance that was tenfold. Endless searching, painfully slow screen refreshes, long re-scans, etc. I was watching computer screens and not listening to music. After 24 hours of pain, I uninstalled and reverted back to the most recent 6.5. I was not about to complain, as it is most certainly labeled pre-release, and I never complain anyway, as the SB and SS software has returned my investment 100 fold. However this is a good moment to ask if others have experienced this. Upon reinstall of 6.5, life was good again, with fairly quick searching and screen refreshes (it is never like using a desktop app, nor do I expect it to be). I loved the interface of SC and hope to see some discussion of how it (or my computer) needs to be tweaked.

FYI: Using a middle aged windows xp pentium machine of reasonable health, Lynksys wireless router and 3 SB's in different rooms, all connected wirelessly. Prior to install of SqueezeCenter, I completely uninstalled 6.5 and rebooted (I've found this best in the past). I also rebooted after install of SC.

Have others experienced this problem, or have tips for moving into SC in the future?

mherger
2007-12-17, 23:41
> I was not about to complain, as it is most certainly labeled

Pre-releases are here to find problems before going final. It wouldn't
have been a complaint, but (if correctly worded) a big help for us. If
there really was an issue slowing down systems that much, then we're
really interested in what it's causing. Please give us some more detail.

> FYI: Using a middle aged windows xp pentium machine of reasonable

Could you be a bit more specific? Some consider a 3.6GHz single core old
:-)

utowana
2007-12-18, 03:08
Michael: happy to help if I can. I'm running a windows xp machine, service pack 2, 2.4 GHz, 512 RAM with a swap file size of 1536 MB. I've been running Webroot Spysweeper and NOD32 antivirus for several years now. Other than that, pretty vanilla. Belkin Pre-N wireless router has been running nicely for 18 months at least. I access SlimServer using a laptop upstairs, and version 6.5 is acceptably responsive using the web interface.

My experience upon install of SqueezeCenter were:
- initial scan was 2+ hours (1600+ albums, 20,000+ songs, 1,500+ artisits, 160GB of disk space on an internal hard drive)
- re-scans of new music were very long and labored - over 20 minutes to rescan the addition of 2 new albums ("albums" - that shows my age)
- screen "refresh" was labored and delayed
- seemed like each time I would check "New Music" - it needed to reindex and "find" all new titles (set to default of 100 titles)

Uninstall of SC and reinstall of SS cleaned everything up. Back to normal behavior.

Does that help? Tell me what else I can report and am happy to do so.

Appreciate your work. The SB/SlimDevices product and service has changed my listening and enjoyment of music.

mherger
2007-12-18, 03:24
> - initial scan was 2+ hours (1600+ albums, 20,000+ songs, 1,500+
> artisits, 160GB of disk space on an internal hard drive)

Is this slower than it was before? Are you using MusicIP or iTunes? When looking at the scanning status page, where's most of the time spent?

> - screen "refresh" was labored and delayed

Player screen or web interface?

> Does that help? Tell me what else I can report and am happy to do so.

It would help if you re-installed the latest nightly build so we could track down the issues you've been experiencing. Thanks!

Craig, James \(IT\)
2007-12-18, 05:28
>> - screen "refresh" was labored and delayed
> Player screen or web interface?

Hi Michael, I've been meaning to say for a while, I find the new web
interface incredibly slow.
I'm running from SVN on Windows XP, Firefox 2.

Firstly, It takes almost a minute to fully load.
Secondly, I have observed that if I open two tabs in Firefox, one with
the default page, the other with any other website, when the
SqueezeCentre tab is active (but fully loaded and doing nothing),
Firefox uses 100% CPU time. Switch to the other tab and CPU usage
disappears. Back to SC, CPU back to 100%

Is there any useful information I can get to debug this?

James
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mflint
2007-12-18, 05:58
I've been running SC7 for some time now, and haven't noticed any speed differences between SC7 and SC6.5.

That's not to say that there aren't speed differences - but in my experience any difference isn't significant enough to be noticed in every-day use.

A complete rescan still takes a while, but I do run SC7 on a KuroBox, so it's not SqueezeCenter's fault!

Matthew

peterw
2007-12-18, 06:01
Hi Michael, I've been meaning to say for a while, I find the new web
interface incredibly slow.
I'm running from SVN on Windows XP, Firefox 2.

Firstly, It takes almost a minute to fully load.
Secondly, I have observed that if I open two tabs in Firefox, one with
the default page, the other with any other website, when the
SqueezeCentre tab is active (but fully loaded and doing nothing),
Firefox uses 100% CPU time. Switch to the other tab and CPU usage
disappears. Back to SC, CPU back to 100%


If I've had the 100% CPU problem, I haven't really noticed it. But the New Default skin does seem quite slow at times. Very often I have to wait a few seconds after a frame loads before Firefox (1.5, old but still supported by the vendor, Ubuntu release) will highlight lines I mouse over, etc. I've been halfway planning on swtching to /Classic once I jump to 7.x fulltime.

Another unrelated New Default comment: especially on short item names, there's a lot of blank horizontal space between item name and the small Add/Play/etc. icons. It's sometimes a hassle to mouseover the item and then slide right to the icon -- it's easiest to select an item by mousing over the text, and then I often (esp. with a built-in laptop pointing device) drift a few pixels up or down and suddenly I'm highlighting a different line. Have you looked at maybe making the icons appear on the left? That should help with my "vertical drift" problem, and you'd also benefit -- at least when the user's browser is fullscreen -- from the fact that it's easier to mouse to a spot along the edge of the screen than in the middle (it's easier and faster still to mouse to one of the 4 corners, but that's not relevant here).

mherger
2007-12-18, 06:48
> Hi Michael, I've been meaning to say for a while, I find the new web
> interface incredibly slow.

You're late in the game to expect major changes...

> Firstly, It takes almost a minute to fully load.

Are you running short on memory? What's the machine's specs?

> Secondly, I have observed that if I open two tabs in Firefox, one with
> the default page, the other with any other website, when the
> SqueezeCentre tab is active (but fully loaded and doing nothing),
> Firefox uses 100% CPU time. Switch to the other tab and CPU usage
> disappears. Back to SC, CPU back to 100%

That's not something you should see (at least I don't). Do you have any FF extensions installed? Eg. Firebug is known to slow it down to a crawl (but I couldn't do without :-/).

Michael

Craig, James \(IT\)
2007-12-18, 06:58
>> Firstly, It takes almost a minute to fully load.
>Are you running short on memory? What's the machine's specs?

It's a 2Ghz P4 with 1Gb of memory. SqueezeCentre is running on the same
machine.
I think there is plenty of memory, about 600Mb in use normally.

>> Firefox uses 100% CPU time. Switch to the other tab and CPU usage
>> disappears. Back to SC, CPU back to 100%

>That's not something you should see (at least I don't). Do you have any
FF extensions installed? Eg. Firebug >is known to slow it down to a
crawl (but I couldn't do without :-/).

No, I don't think I have anything unusual installed, just Adblock.
I did have GreaseMonkey installed but I get the same symptoms with it
disabled.

James
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mherger
2007-12-18, 06:59
> Another unrelated New Default comment: especially on short item names,
> there's a lot of blank horizontal space between item name and the small
> Add/Play/etc. icons. It's sometimes a hassle to mouseover the item and
> then slide right to the icon -- it's easiest to select an item by

What probably most do to solve this "issue" is just staying on the right side of the list. You can click the highlighted area to navigate down the hierarchy. No need to click the link precisly.

> mousing over the text, and then I often (esp. with a built-in laptop
> pointing device) drift a few pixels up or down and suddenly I'm
> highlighting a different line. Have you looked at maybe making the
> icons appear on the left? That should help with my "vertical drift"

Yes, we did. This has been discussed. But it leads to an ugly layout if there are items without buttons, or others with several buttons etc. And it's closer to the Jive interface the way it is now ;-).

psykoptic
2007-12-18, 13:41
>

That's not something you should see (at least I don't). Do you have any FF extensions installed? Eg. Firebug is known to slow it down to a crawl (but I couldn't do without :-/).

Michael

me too Firebug can cause problems for certain sites, local or otherwise. you can disable Firebug for individual sites. just right-click the firebug icon on the bottom-right of the FF chrome and select 'Disable Firebug for ...'

hope this helps.

jmschnur
2007-12-18, 13:51
So what are the benefits of 7 over 6.4.5.

A list of +/- would be very useful.

Joel

funkstar
2007-12-18, 14:03
Perhaps not what you are looking for, but this is the SqueezeCenter7 Spec document from the Wiki

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?SlimServer7Spec

erland
2007-12-18, 14:08
So what are the benefits of 7 over 6.4.5.

A list of +/- would be very useful.

Joel

The changelog is here:
http://svn.slimdevices.com/*checkout*/trunk/server/Changelog7.html

At the moment, I can't really think of any negative things. I personally don't like all the skin changes in the classic skin and in the new default skin, but that's just a matter of taste because other people loves them. Overall I would still say that the skin changes is an improvement compared to 6.5.

secabeen
2007-12-18, 18:18
erland wrote:
> At the moment, I can't really think of any negative things. I
> personally don't like all the skin changes in the classic skin and in
> the new default skin, but that's just a matter of taste because other
> people loves them. Overall I would still say that the skin changes is
> an improvement compared to 6.5.

Agreed. I like the new default skin quite a lot. The only thing that
it seems to be really missing is drag-and-drop playlist reordering. For
now I'm using Fishbone (which has it), although I'll probably play with
Default some more when I get home.

--Ted

bflatmajor
2007-12-18, 19:23
and I was hoping for drag and drop within a playlist

How about drag and drop from the left panel/screen into a playlist? Is that possible?

I haven't played with 7.0 and I'm currently running the latest version 6.5.??

TIA

erland
2007-12-18, 22:41
and I was hoping for drag and drop within a playlist

How about drag and drop from the left panel/screen into a playlist? Is that possible?

Drag&drop within the current playlist works in both Fishbone and Default skin in 7.0, the classic skin(called default in 6.5) doesn't support drag&drop.

Drag&drop from left panel to right panel is still not supported in any skin as far as I know.

mherger
2007-12-19, 00:27
> Agreed. I like the new default skin quite a lot. The only thing that
> it seems to be really missing is drag-and-drop playlist reordering.

d'n'd in Default currently is available for playlist (current & saved) and
favorites reordering.

Steve Baumgarten
2007-12-19, 09:38
> d'n'd in Default currently is available for playlist (current & saved) and
> favorites reordering.

I'm curious about the state of playlist management generally in 7.0.
Adding songs to an existing saved playlist is fairly tedious in 6.5, at
least with Fishbone. I haven't experimented with 7.0 yet, but if playing
with playlists has been improved (in any skin), my kids will be very happy
(right now that's the thing they're least happy about, given that they
otherwise love their Squeezebox).

SBB

mherger
2007-12-19, 09:59
> I'm curious about the state of playlist management generally in 7.0.
> Adding songs to an existing saved playlist is fairly tedious in 6.5, at
> least with Fishbone. I haven't experimented with 7.0 yet, but if playing
> with playlists has been improved (in any skin)

That's still on the todo list for 7.x.

> (right now that's the thing they're least happy about, given that they
> otherwise love their Squeezebox).

C'mon? Which other kid can call a SB "his" SB?!? They must be happy! Ok? :-)

Steve Baumgarten
2007-12-19, 15:36
>> (right now that's the thing they're least happy about, given that they
>> otherwise love their Squeezebox).
>
> C'mon? Which other kid can call a SB "his" SB?!? They must be happy! Ok?
> :-)

And it's SuperDateTime that sold them. They are lunatic sports fans and
love getting the latest scores on the display. (They're 10-year-old twin
girls, which is why I write "their" rather than "her".)

The, how shall we say, kind of lousy support for fiddling around with
playlists is, I'm convinced, another hallmark of a product designed by
techies who mostly listen to albums. I love the product, don't get me
wrong; I have two in the house right now. And I mostly listen to albums
myself. But my kids are very singles-oriented (just like I was when I was
their age) and they always want to add/remove tracks from their "everyday
listening" playlist. The current UI makes this rather painful.

On the other hand, my kids also like some of the techie aspects of the
Squeezebox, including the web browser interface, the custom library I set
up for them (so when they browse by artist they only see the ones they
like), and even the fact that they can set a playlist to wake them up in
the morning.

But modifying that playlist -- yikes.

SBB

mherger
2007-12-19, 15:56
> The, how shall we say, kind of lousy support for fiddling around with
> playlists is, I'm convinced, another hallmark of a product designed by
> techies who mostly listen to albums.

Let's call this group "adult", not "techies" :-).

I'm an album guy, because I believe that many albums are an entity, even
if they're not one of those concept albums. But that's probably not true
for the latest Britney Spears...

secabeen
2007-12-20, 16:47
erland wrote:
> bflatmajor;249989 Wrote:
>> and I was hoping for drag and drop within a playlist
>>
>> How about drag and drop from the left panel/screen into a playlist? Is
>> that possible?
>>
> Drag&drop within the current playlist works in both Fishbone and
> Default skin in 7.0, the classic skin(called default in 6.5) doesn't
> support drag&drop.

You're right! Default only allows drag&drop on the album image, not the
track name. That's a little counterintuitive. If possible, you should
be able to click almost anywhere on the track and get a drag/drop.

--Ted