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dizzie
2007-12-16, 10:53
I am having multiple problems. Possibly they are related. With my router (Linksys WRT54G) I frequently have difficulty connecting to the internet. Sometimes it works great and sometimes it does not work at all. I bought a Squeezebox one week ago but I have used the router for over a year so the router is not a new installation. I am only using the Squeezebox for net radio. I already have a one-box music server.

Today the Squeezebox was playing internet radio with no problems but my desktop computer SlimServer page refused to recognize the Squeezebox---while it was playing. After I shut the computer completely off the Squeezebox played for several hours until I turned it off. On previous days the Squeezebox would shut off when I turned the computer off. Note that the modem and router would still have power. How is this supposed to work? Should the Squeezebox play net radio without the computer? Why wouldn't my computer recognize a player that was working? I even did complete computer shut down and restart with the same results.

I am considering purchasing the 2Wire DSL Gateway Model 2701HG-B from AT&T hoping that it will eliminate my modem/router problem. But that costs about $100 with shipping and tax. I have not found it cheaper anywhere doing a general web search and specifically visiting the websites of the biggies. In fact, the only place I have found it (besides AT&T store) is on the Best Buy website and on eBay (cheaper but I won't shop there). Does anyone have experience with this product? Would a one-box modem/router let me operate the Squeezebox without the computer (radio only)? I know there are other gateway devices but this is AT&T branded and would come with their tech support. I have AT&T local phone service and AT&T/Yahoo DSL so I appreciate and desparately need their support.

My preference would be to get my current modem and router working together again. What really puzzles me is sometimes it works fine and then it goes all passive/aggressive on me.

Any help would be appreciated. I have had so many router problems I have not had time to explore the SB features and learn how to create favorites or add radio stations.

amcluesent
2007-12-16, 11:05
>Should the Squeezebox play net radio without the computer?<

Yes. So long as the station doesn't need transcoding, e.g. the BBC feeds on the AlienBBC plug-in need a realplayer emulator on the computer.

>Why wouldn't my computer recognize a player that was working?<

Because the SB3 was switched to communicate with the Squeezenetwork. You can switch it back from a menu option on the SB or from your account's web-page on the Squeezenetwork.

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?SqueezeNetwork

NB the release of SqueezeCentre 7.0 in January (replacing Slimserver) is supposed to make moving between local music and streamed music easier to manage.

pfarrell
2007-12-16, 14:28
I am considering purchasing the 2Wire DSL Gateway Model 2701HG-B from AT&T hoping that it will eliminate my modem/router problem. But that costs about $100 with shipping and tax.


I'm not a fan of modem/router combo boxes. Mostly because I want more control over the router than most ISPs want, and they typically provide fairly braindead combo boxes.

Unless space is a really big problem, I'd suggest you use two boxes, one as the modem, and a separate box as the router/wap/switch.

For about $55 you can get a Linksys WRT54GL (note, the "L" at the end is important) and flash it with the wonderful dd-wrt firmware. With this, you just plug the WRT54GL's cable into your existing modem box, and have the WRT54GL do all the work concerning routing, WAP, WEP, etc.

http://www.dd-wrt.com/

You can get the WRT54GL from any of the usual mail order/web order places, newegg, tigerdirect, etc. Sometimes even your local BestBuy will have it, but usually BB has the non-L version.

dizzie
2007-12-16, 15:10
amcluesent,
You have lost me on the Squeezenetwork issue. I can't figure out how to do it from either place. Can I use settings that allow me to play net radio without the computer on but still have volume control and read what's playing now from whatever you call this page http://127.0.0.1:9000/




>Should the Squeezebox play net radio without the computer?<

Yes. So long as the station doesn't need transcoding, e.g. the BBC feeds on the AlienBBC plug-in need a realplayer emulator on the computer.

>Why wouldn't my computer recognize a player that was working?<

Because the SB3 was switched to communicate with the Squeezenetwork. You can switch it back from a menu option on the SB or from your account's web-page on the Squeezenetwork.

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?SqueezeNetwork

NB the release of SqueezeCentre 7.0 in January (replacing Slimserver) is supposed to make moving between local music and streamed music easier to manage.

dizzie
2007-12-16, 15:19
Pat, If I knew enough to "flash" a router I would know enough to get my current gear working. Which, actually, it has been for the last few hours. Who knows what will happen when I turn it on in the morning.

You say the combo boxes give you more control but control in my hands would be dangerous. Remember, I only want run net radio and occasionally a laptop (wireless or wired) to the router. Wouldn't a combo box be more than adequate? I am trying to get simpler and it seems to me you are pointing in the other direction although it may be simple for you.

If I have to buy the "L" model Linksys I am already most of the way to the ATT 2Wire combo box. Both would require additional for shipping and tax.

pfarrell
2007-12-16, 15:54
dizzie wrote:
> You say the combo boxes give you more control but control in my hands
> would be dangerous.

Yeah, no juggling chainsaws, bad things can happen


> If I have to buy the "L" model Linksys I am already most of the way to
> the ATT 2Wire combo box. Both would require additional for shipping
> and tax.

Amazon has it with free shipping. Tax is another matter.
But if you get the 2Wire, will it work?


--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

dizzie
2007-12-16, 16:08
Pat, I am not sure the 2-wire will work but it carries the AT&T brand and is sold by their web-store. The details state is carries full support by AT&T and is approved for their network. I have AT&T/Yahoo DSL and AT&T is also my local carrier so I do not expect any complaints from them if I put it in my system and need tech support.

The tech that just repaired my outside wires (AT&Ts responsibility) recommended the combo box. I really think he was trying to be helpful not just generate a very small sale for a huge company.

bflatmajor
2007-12-16, 19:02
My preference would be to get my current modem and router working together again. What really puzzles me is sometimes it works fine and then it goes all passive/aggressive on me.

Any help would be appreciated. I have had so many router problems I have not had time to explore the SB features and learn how to create favorites or add radio stations.

Here is my two cents..

I have the linksys wrt54g router and a dsl modem.
What I've noticed is that at various times, the router would stop working. I've plugged an ethernet cable directly into my dsl modem and I would have internet access but naturally the SB was not available/not found.

I reset the router and have an ethernet cable going from my pc to the router. Resetting the router seems to have worked. Another thing that I noticed is that port 1 on the router appears to have issue. Today, I decided to change to port 2. I can only wait and see. But right now, everything is perfect.

Make sure you update your firmware. Goto the linksys website, its fairly easy..

My next step is to by the wrt54gl, but before I do that the 54g would have to die.

Why spend good money after bad? :-)

dizzie
2007-12-17, 00:01
bflatmajor, Those are the same router issues I have. I also agree with not spending money on a new router if I don't have to. I would rather buy music.

What do you mean by reset the router? Do you mean just cycle off then on?

How did you do the firmware update? I found it and downloaded it but then I was asked to save it and I did not know where to save it. Shouldn't it have automatically gone where it belonged?

I will try another port next time it wigs out. It has run without problems all day and I even shut my computer off for several hours and (now) back on.

My problems started with an outside underground line issue. It had intermittent problems after the rains started. I have been there several times in the last few years. When it acts up it seems to confuse my modem and/or router. My phone works fine but the little extra noise on the line is not DSL friendly.

bflatmajor
2007-12-17, 09:37
bflatmajor, Those are the same router issues I have.
What do you mean by reset the router? Do you mean just cycle off then on?

How did you do the firmware update? I found it and downloaded it but then I was asked to save it and I did not know where to save it. Shouldn't it have automatically gone where it belonged?



On the back of the router is a very small button that can only be pressed with a pin/tootpick/paper clip. After you unplug the power supply, press and hold that button in for about 30 seconds.
After 30 seconds release the button and plug the power cord back in.

I downloaded and saved the firmware patch to my desktop. The location doesn't matter as long as you remember where you put it.
I then went into the router software via the browser and located the update firmware section. Clicked on the update firmware link and it prompted me for the location of the file.

Word of advice, do not attempt to update the firmware wirelessly.
Be sure you have an ethernet cable running from your computer to the router.

If you call their tech support team and get someone who speaks decent english, I've found them to be very very helpful.

dizzie
2007-12-17, 10:19
bflatmajor, Thanks I will give that a try. I am not sure exactly how to implement it. I can't go to the router configuration page if I can't connect to the internet. If I push the reset button inside the Linksys will I be able to get back online to 192.168.1.1?

My system worked just fine for many hours yesterday, but true to its nature, it woke up cranky. I just could not get it to work so I am now running without the router which means no SB. Even when I took the router out I had to reset the modem several times to make it work. I also had to do a complete computer shut off not just a restart. Using restart on the computer did not seem to sync it with the modem once the computer already gave me a "no connection" message. Maybe it was still a modem issue and not related to restart or cold start. But that has happened before. 45 minutes to get connected is not a morning ritual I want to continue with.

snarlydwarf
2007-12-17, 10:53
Ah that sounds similar to how my router would die.

Ironically I could often get to the internet but local stuff would die... and there was no way at all to load the router config page to get it to reboot, i had to do it manually.

It wouldn't surprise me if whatever tickled my router into stupid-mode (my guess: running out of memory for caching connections, which it needs to do for NAT) since most routers are really just simple Linux boxes running in very low memory... more RAM in the router might fix things, but it isn't like that is easy to do at all.

I especially found this to be horrible when I started doing some port forwards through the router (which is really dumb -- it doesnt really NAT those, so it shouldnt use memory), which changed the failure rate from once every couple of weeks to mere hours.

My solution was to just steal a nic from an old machine and convert a real linux box (with plenty of RAM) into a router... I would say it isnt exactly "green" but then, it was on anyway, so electrical usage went down a tad when I converted the router into a plain old Access Point.

Powercycling the outer would get it out of stupid mode, but that does get annoying fast. You shouldn't need to press the hidden reset button, just a power cycle. (I never know if hiddent reset buttons do a 'factory reset' and wipe settings, which would be even more annoying.)

dizzie
2007-12-17, 12:02
snarlydwarf, I hear you on resetting a router to factory. I would not be sure how to get it back to where I need it. For now I just power off then back on. Wish it had a switch like the modem.

What gets me is everything will work fine all day and then in the morning it won't. I feel like pouring coffee on it and yelling wake up!!!!!!!!!

bflatmajor
2007-12-17, 12:15
bflatmajor, Thanks I will give that a try. I am not sure exactly how to implement it. I can't go to the router configuration page if I can't connect to the internet. If I push the reset button inside the Linksys will I be able to get back online to 192.168.1.1?

My system worked just fine for many hours yesterday, but true to its nature, it woke up cranky. I just could not get it to work so I am now running without the router which means no SB. Even when I took the router out I had to reset the modem several times to make it work. I also had to do a complete computer shut off not just a restart. Using restart on the computer did not seem to sync it with the modem once the computer already gave me a "no connection" message. Maybe it was still a modem issue and not related to restart or cold start. But that has happened before. 45 minutes to get connected is not a morning ritual I want to continue with.

If I understand you correctly, you may have TWO issues.
One with the router and one with the dsl modem.

Resetting the router will not help if your dsl modem is having an issue.

The next time you are experiencing an issue, if you can, plug an ethernet cable from your pc to the dsl modem and see if you can access the internet. If you CAN access the internet at that point then the router is having an issue. If you can't access the internet then the dsl modem is having an issue.

If you can connect to the internet via the dsl modem then plug the cable into the linksys router.
At this point if you cannot access the internet then the issue is the with the router/dsl modem connection. At this point resetting the router and changing the port that the ethernet cable from your pc is plugged into may resolve the issue.

You DO NOT need internet access to apply the patch to the router.
You DO need internet access to download the patch from the linksys website.
If you want to prove this point, turn off the dsl modem.
Connect the ethernet cable from your pc to the router. Open up your browser and type the ip address 192.168.1.1. Does the router config page appear? If so, apply the patch. The router's web page is internal to the router not external on the internet.

Other info:

While I was dealing with linksys tech support they had me change my ip address so it is no longer 192.?.?.? its 10.10.?.? I'm not sure whats the purpose of this but it works.

When my phone company set-up my dsl hardware, I didn't know that it was also a wireless router. I had to disable its wireless functionality and that stablized my network.

I hope this helps.

dizzie
2007-12-17, 15:47
Thanks bflatmajor.

Several times when I could not connect to the internet with the router in I took it out of the loop. I connected the modem directly to the computer (set that way now) but I still had to reset the modem several times and completely turn off the computer. Anything less than that failed. Took me 45 minutes this morning because I tried to shortcut and I can't believe how slow XP boots up.

Strange thing is that once I am net connected if I put the router back in, it will work the rest of the day even if I turn off the computer and later turn it on again. It is the next morning that troubles start again.

I guess you are right about accessing the router page without being internet connected. It was the modem 192.168.0.1 I could not access without being connected.

Will updating the router firmware change any settings I will have to redo? I get the process now. While connected download the update and save. Then I can update without being connected.

bflatmajor
2007-12-17, 16:13
Thanks bflatmajor.

Will updating the router firmware change any settings I will have to redo? I get the process now. While connected download the update and save. Then I can update without being connected.

No.. After updating my router's firmware, I NEVER had to go into the router's settings to reinstate previous changes.
But that question is best left up to linksys tech support.

If this was happening to me, I would also call your DSL tech support. They may have to replace your dsl modem.

Do you have any type of filter at the phone jack?
I know I had to add filters and my phone company supplied the filters. Now all my phone jacks have a filter on them. The filters MAY help resolve your dsl modem issue.

As for the router, upgrade to the latest firmware is a priority.

dizzie
2007-12-17, 18:50
The modem is not on warranty any longer so if it is a problem that just points me toward the 2wire replacement.

I have a direct DSL line from a splitter installed by AT&T. I do not need or use filters on my phones.

maggior
2007-12-18, 11:07
No.. After updating my router's firmware, I NEVER had to go into the router's settings to reinstate previous changes.
But that question is best left up to linksys tech support.

If this was happening to me, I would also call your DSL tech support. They may have to replace your dsl modem.

Do you have any type of filter at the phone jack?
I know I had to add filters and my phone company supplied the filters. Now all my phone jacks have a filter on them. The filters MAY help resolve your dsl modem issue.

As for the router, upgrade to the latest firmware is a priority.

I've upgraded my Linksys WRT-54GS firmware and did not have to redo my settings.

In the configuration page, there is an option to save your current configuration to a disk file. Before updating, save your configuration. This way if something goes wrong, you can easly read in your old settings.

Good luck.

dizzie
2007-12-18, 15:45
bflatmajor and maggior, Thanks for the help on router firmware updating. I did it and the router worked first try. I am glad I removed that possible problem but I don't think that is the main issue.

I shut my modem off last night and took the router out of the loop. This morning I started the modem and then the computer and still could not connect until I did multiple tries. No router to blame.

Now I have the router back in, and everything is working fine but that is just a temporary until tomorrow when the madness starts all over again.

Is there something (like scheduled software maintenance) that the computer is doing at night that messes up something? I don't see how since the power is completely shut off at my surge protector.

maggior
2007-12-20, 10:38
bflatmajor and maggior, Thanks for the help on router firmware updating. I did it and the router worked first try. I am glad I removed that possible problem but I don't think that is the main issue.

I shut my modem off last night and took the router out of the loop. This morning I started the modem and then the computer and still could not connect until I did multiple tries. No router to blame.

Now I have the router back in, and everything is working fine but that is just a temporary until tomorrow when the madness starts all over again.

Is there something (like scheduled software maintenance) that the computer is doing at night that messes up something? I don't see how since the power is completely shut off at my surge protector.


If you are using a router connected to the modem, that means that the modem is operating in bridge mode and your router is handling the PPPoE protocol, which includes your user name and password for your account. To connect the modem directly to your PC, you need to take the modem out of bridge mode and set up the PPPoE parameters. Or, on the PC you have to create a new network connection (connectoid?) for PPPoE. I only did this once and I was walked through it by a Verizon tech on the phone.

In short, it makes sense that connecting your PC directly to your modem did not work - it's not a sign of other issues.

If you PC is powered off, then certainly there is no scheduled routines that are running (e.g. virus scans, etc.).