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Timbo22
2007-12-11, 17:09
Hi all,
After a few hiccups I half understand how things work with my SB.
Then today My ISP went down, and so did my SB. I can understand the radio channels going, but I couldnt get any music from my PC.
My SB just died, until my ISP came back, then its business as usual. Can my SB not communicate independantly with my PC if the internet goes down?
Cheers,
Tim.

pfarrell
2007-12-11, 21:00
Depends on your setup. If your ISP is providing your DHCP service, you are likely to lose all TCP/IP when its down.

It is possible that ISP provided router is too dumb to do even simple things without instructions from upstream in the ISP's network

Timbo22
2007-12-12, 05:05
Theoretically if I connected straight from SB to PC by passing the router. Would that get my music playing. If so can I buy some kind of splitter in case this happens again? I am slowly getting rid of my previous hi fi gear. But I dont want to be at the mercy of Tiscali, this happens quite a lot in my area.
Cheers all,
Tim.

bpa
2007-12-12, 05:23
A splitter is not really an option.

What is the make and model of your router ?

Timbo22
2007-12-12, 06:57
Tiscali sent it through. Its a Thomson ST585 v6.
Thanks,
TIm.

signor_rossi
2007-12-12, 09:12
Has this router special (=crippled) firmware like the "Telecom Italia" one and has it a smart card? Business or consumer contract? Can you connect two computers temporarily to the internet?
If you are lucky it's just a configuration error, can you give some more info? (ala dhcp active, ip of Thomson and SB3, subnet setting on router and SB3 and especially gateway setting on SB3 -> should be set to ip of thomson, as the nameserver too).

Bye, signor_rossi.

Timbo22
2007-12-12, 11:52
Has this router special (=crippled) firmware like the "Telecom Italia" one and has it a smart card? Business or consumer contract? Can you connect two computers temporarily to the internet?
If you are lucky it's just a configuration error, can you give some more info? (ala dhcp active, ip of Thomson and SB3, subnet setting on router and SB3 and especially gateway setting on SB3 -> should be set to ip of thomson, as the nameserver too).

Bye, signor_rossi.

Hi signor_rossi,
Please bear with me I am a real newby to this. I will try to answer your questions as best I can.
The Modem is a Speed touch Thomson ST585 v6.
It has no smart card or slot.
I dont know if I can connect two computers. It has 4 ethernet ports two or them being used for my SB.

Written underneath is
SSID: Speedtouch ECOCBC
WEP (hex): XXX
WPA PSK: XXX
TCM: 35917270
Is this of any help as I dont really understand the questions?
Cheers my friend,
Tim.

Mark Lanctot
2007-12-12, 13:51
Tim:

I have removed the wireless encryption passphrases you listed as they are not required to solve the issue and these passphrases would allow someone to break into your network.

I don't have any comments on your problem except I suspect it's a case of your ISP doing DHCP assignment - your modem is not acting as a router at all and each of your devices is directly exposed to the Internet. You're at your ISP's mercy and if they go down your "internal" network goes down too.

This is what home routers can avoid, see http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?NetworkDesign

signor_rossi
2007-12-12, 13:55
BIG OUCH!! You shouldn't make public the WEP and WPA values you have! They are the keys used for the protection of your wireless network. Please edit your post and erase them.

O.K. Things from the first paragraph aren't really important probably, but from the second one might be. You can get the values for the router from its' web interface, which should be reachable via a web browser from your computer usually via an address like this
http://192.168.x.x
get the missing x values from the handbook of the router. As for the SB3 just return to the setup menu by pressing the power button on the remote for 5 seconds.

Bye, signor_rossi.

Timbo22
2007-12-12, 16:59
Hi Guys,
Thanks for you replies and the necessary edits. Feel a bit deflated by all this. Should I now change my router? As you can tell my tech knowledge is limited. As I see it when my ISP goes down, if I connect a separate ethernet cable directly From my SB to my PC, I will not be able to play music from my PC to SB. Or can I?
Many thanks,
Tim.

bpa
2007-12-12, 17:38
Unless there is a special Tiscali s/w installed, from the manual the router should be confgurable.

If it is a standard router, then it is also possible that Tiscali has preconfigured the router and this is the problem.

As I see it you have a two possibilities.

1. Confirm DHCP issues and if necessary reconfigure router.

2. This needs confirmation but you may be able to assign static IP addresses to PC and SB. This means DHCP is not used but it may require you to configure other items in PC and SB such as DNS and gateway address.

First - can you access configuration page of the Router ? If so what firmware version is it running ?

Timbo22
2007-12-12, 18:27
Unless there is a special Tiscali s/w installed, from the manual the router should be confgurable.

If it is a standard router, then it is also possible that Tiscali has preconfigured the router and this is the problem.

As I see it you have a two possibilities.

1. Confirm DHCP issues and if necessary reconfigure router.

2. This needs confirmation but you may be able to assign static IP addresses to PC and SB. This means DHCP is not used but it may require you to configure other items in PC and SB such as DNS and gateway address.

First - can you access configuration page of the Router ? If so what firmware version is it running ?

Hi bpa,
I understand most of this but what does DHCP issues and DNS and gateway address mean?
Can you confirm that by connecting an ethernet cable from SB to PC will not allow music to be played when the ISP goes down?
Cheers,
Tim.

JJZolx
2007-12-12, 19:06
BIG OUCH!! You shouldn't make public the WEP and WPA values you have! They are the keys used for the protection of your wireless network. Please edit your post and erase them.

Do you know where he lives?

JJZolx
2007-12-12, 19:25
Hi bpa,
I understand most of this but what does DHCP issues and DNS and gateway address mean?
Can you confirm that by connecting an ethernet cable from SB to PC will not allow music to be played when the ISP goes down?

If you went through some reconfiguration you could get that to work. It would be a PITA, though.

The thing to do would be to place your own router behind the ISP's and connect the PC and SB to your router. This would effectively be your 'splitter'. Even if the ISP's router is turned off then your internal network (PC & Squeezebox) will still function. It may take a little bit of configuration, but it might also work right out of the box.

I'd figure out whether or not you have access to the ISP's router configuration and see how it's set up. You might avoid having to buy any additional equipment.

signor_rossi
2007-12-13, 01:27
Do you know where he lives?

Of course not! ;)
But I thought that I should make him aware that those are the keys of his wireless network and that they are not to be made public. So instead of choosing to say nothing I mentioned it, even if I know that someone driving to his house and using these keys to break into his network is not that probable. lol

Bye, signor_rossi.

bpa
2007-12-13, 01:42
First you need to determine the problem. DHCP is a guess but you need to get more info on your Thomson router configuration to be sure.

JJZolx's suggestion of a second router may be the solution but only if the problem is understood and from previous posts I'm not sure your domestic situation would welcome yet another bit of technology.

Do you know the ip address of your router ?
If so try your browser on the router IP address and see if you get back a configuration screen.
Did you get a manual with the router ?


Some basics:

DHCP - a bit of software which allocates IP address to devices for a local network. In many home networks this is done by a DHCP server in the router but some ISP treat all their customer as running on a big local network so the ISP has the DHCP servers.

IP addresses allocated by a DHCP are "leased" and the leased has a time limit often only 1 hour.

DNS - the mechanism for translating network names such as "www.slimdevices.com" into ip addresses like 192.168.1.1. There is a hierarchy of DNS servers. You will be using your ISP's but this address is usually setup automatically if you are using DHCP. So no DHCP - no DNS.

Gateway - the ip address of the router so that packets from a device destined for the internet are first directed to your router. This address is also usually setup by DHCP.

Mark Lanctot
2007-12-13, 07:13
Tim:

Take a look at the link I posted, http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?NetworkDesign

The way it is now, it appears your "router" is really a modem/router and it looks like the routing functions are controlled by your ISP. Your ISP goes down, your internal network goes down too.

You need to either get your ISP to walk you through how to set up your own LAN (although you have a right to do this, it's unlikely they'll help you because they want to control your network and are likely charging you extra for "two" computers) or get a router that you can control and use the existing modem as just a modem. You don't have to replace it, and in this case you can't.

maggior
2007-12-13, 08:21
Tim:
you can't. Yes, it's an extra piece of tech gear, and yes, it's not free. However routers are very, very common in households these days and manufacturers are used to walking users through the setup, so the manuals are very good as is the customer help.

Mark -

What brand routers have you dealt with? I have (and recommend) Linksys, but their support is horrendous. Their manuals are a joke. Their website isn't that great either. When I first bought mine I had a bad experience with them. My brother, who knows nothing about networking, called them for help getting his Linksys router to work with his DSL modem. All they managed to do was screw the settings up so badly that they deemed it a bad router. Fortunately I was able to get him set up. I don't think my brother will ever call Linksys tech support again.

It may cost some $$$, but it might be worth it for Tim to throw a local teenage geek a few dollars to help him out. Or hire the GeekSquad :-).

Rich

Mark Lanctot
2007-12-13, 08:27
Mark -

What brand routers have you dealt with? I have (and recommend) Linksys, but their support is horrendous. Their manuals are a joke. Their website isn't that great either. When I first bought mine I had a bad experience with them. My brother, who knows nothing about networking, called them for help getting his Linksys router to work with his DSL modem. All they managed to do was screw the settings up so badly that they deemed it a bad router. Fortunately I was able to get him set up. I don't think my brother will ever call Linksys tech support again.

It may cost some $$$, but it might be worth it for Tim to throw a local teenage geek a few dollars to help him out. Or hire the GeekSquad :-).

Rich

Hmm, good point. I have used Netgear, SMC and now Linksys routers but I usually figure things out myself and I never call customer service, they just read inane scripts.

I'll edit and second your advice, Tim needs outside help.

Timbo22
2007-12-13, 12:27
Thanks chaps,
Maybe I'll have a word with my PC shop about using an outside router with my modem.
Tim.