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View Full Version : What would it take? (reciva thread)



gandt
2007-12-10, 02:55
I have a SB2 and a reciva radio. Undoubtedly the SB2 wins hands down but the Reciva radio occasionally has the Internet Radio advantage. The reciva website now has quite a few new interesting stations I have to add manually to the SB2. I assume the basic "reciva download" the list of stations is some form of xml and was wondering if it would be possible to write a "reciva" plugin. Perhaps there are licencing issues? Does anybody know?


gandt

dean
2007-12-10, 15:31
On Dec 10, 2007, at 1:55 AM, gandt wrote:
> I have a SB2 and a reciva radio. Undoubtedly the SB2 wins hands
> down but
> the Reciva radio occasionally has the Internet Radio advantage. The
> reciva website now has quite a few new interesting stations I have to
> add manually to the SB2. I assume the basic "reciva download" the list
> of stations is some form of xml and was wondering if it would be
> possible to write a "reciva" plugin. Perhaps there are licencing
> issues? Does anybody know?
What stations are these? Are they not available from RadioTime or
one of our other tuning services?

gandt
2007-12-11, 00:53
It's just that the reciva database is currently used by probably more than TWO dozen different internet radios and is regularly updated by all the users of those radios. Consequently it seems to be the largest database on streaming radio Im aware of. You can get the picture here https://www.reciva.com/ according to their front page data they say:
"Our directory contains 8706 stations (and 21242 on-demand streams) in 262 locations and 60 genres.
21,599 registered users."

certainly iots the system powering nearly all the wifi radios available in the uk.

bpa
2007-12-11, 02:09
Quick comparison
Ireland Reciva - 34 Radiotime - 17
UK Reciva about 1500 Radiotime - about 250

The Wifi Radio in the UK (e.g. AE, Roberts, Bush, BBC, Pico) which can receive RealAudio BBC are Reciva chipset based and so users really only consider one Internetradio directory and that has massive support. Reciva also have a AlienBBC like facility for BBC "listen Again". Users can easily add news stations and more importantly correct entries.

The Squeezebox has no clear directory which users can easily add new stations.

Radiotime Navigation from Web and SB is poor (e.g. why not an "ALL" option for countries otherwise you spend time to can drill down to "Teeside" and find nothing!) as there is no Search and organisation does not help.

As an indication. From the Radiotime web interface - there are no entries in radiotime for Liverpool or Manchester. There is no slot for Birmingham yet there are slots for South Georgia and the Sandwich Islands.

RadioTime is not a quality service and Squeezebox needs a good radio directory which enables user feedback for addition and corrections as the other media streams are doing so as with reciva and RokuRadio.

bernt
2007-12-11, 03:06
Reciva looks very organized compared to RadioTime.

I tried RadioTime for a while but I ended up using My Picks instead.

Reciva looks promising as it already have all my favorite stations listed in highest quality and with the right name.

Paul Webster
2007-12-11, 05:13
Similar question on the Reciva forums (https://www.reciva.com/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=108&func=view&id=11434&catid=3#msg11434) recently (comparing the Reciva database with RadioRoku (http://radioroku.com)).

I think that Reciva only make it available to the radios that embed their technology (although it is a set of XML files and can be worked out).
I doubt that they would licence it to someone making competetive products - but Logitech could always ask.
There is also vTuner (http://www.vtuner.com) with a large number of stations - who do licence it to hardware vendors.

I recently sent a note to Mike of MikesRadioWorld (http://www.mikesradioworld.com/) to ask if he was interested in having an OPML version of his data ... which would then make it easy for Squeezeboxes to use - but no reply yet.

radiobill
2007-12-11, 07:54
Bill from RadioTime ... encouraging the Squeezebox community to report bad or missing information from radiotime.com, just click fix it and type in a quick note. If you leave an email we'll answer. You can report missing stations from a search page or missing streams you know exist, wrong information, missing locations, anything.

Station pages have edit links where you can submit a URL or make basic data changes (moderated).

The Slim community is technical enough to work without RadioTime by finding your own URL. But tracking changes over time is a drag, and the update doesn't help other SB users.

Especially for regions, we depend on the people who lives there to tell us what's missing or wrong.

One problem is UK streams are often Real networks, so filtered from the SB. Also, Reciva is based in Cambridge so their UK coverage is likely better.

But head-head RadioTime is deeper and more comprehensive, over 60,000 stations plus millions of lineup details about the stations and hundreds of thousands of on-demand topics. RadioTime has thousands of regions, and a million users a month. We get alot of great feedback but not so enough from the SB community. Help us make it better!

toby10
2007-12-11, 08:24
Similar question on the Reciva forums (https://www.reciva.com/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=108&func=view&id=11434&catid=3#msg11434) recently (comparing the Reciva database with RadioRoku (http://radioroku.com)).

I think that Reciva only make it available to the radios that embed their technology (although it is a set of XML files and can be worked out).
I doubt that they would licence it to someone making competetive products - but Logitech could always ask.
There is also vTuner (http://www.vtuner.com) with a large number of stations - who do licence it to hardware vendors.

I recently sent a note to Mike of MikesRadioWorld (http://www.mikesradioworld.com/) to ask if he was interested in having an OPML version of his data ... which would then make it easy for Squeezeboxes to use - but no reply yet.

vTuner is quite good. I get vTuner through my Yamaha AVR. However, though vTuner boasts around 11,000 stations the Yamaha filters out over 70% of them. But a very nice service nonetheless.

Another service I hope the Slim Devices people will consider is BeSoinc Radio. They currently stream through my vTuner service (via Yamaha server) and both sound quality and variety is excellent. They currently offer 20 stations, all MP3 @ 128k. BeSonic seems to be quite like RadioIO, less 10 stations.

Paul Webster
2007-12-11, 08:43
One problem is UK streams are often Real networks, so filtered from the SB

I've suggested to RadioTime in the past that the RealAudio stations should be passed through - because Squeezebox users who are internet radio fans may well have installed AlienBBC ... which adds RealAudio support - especially if you think that it is UK stations that are the main user.
If you think that it would result in too many support calls - then allow the user to specify on their profile that Real is supported or add a parameter to the URL and we can get SlimServer to pass it through (i.e. something like &Real=1) .

andyg
2007-12-11, 08:44
Real stations are passed through if you have installed Alien.

Paul Webster
2007-12-11, 15:10
Thanks Andy
I knew it was a good idea ;)

Filters=mp3,wma,real
but I hadn't realised it was done - and looks like Bill of RadioTime didn't know either.

Paul Webster
2007-12-11, 15:24
Just tried it (on SC7).
Went for BBC London - which is a RealAudio link on RadioTime.
Squeezebox shows the staion via RadioTime plugin - but lists as not supported.
i.e. RadioTime lists the station but does not pass the stream URL.

However, Ato confuse things - AlienBBC seems to also have a problem with that stream right now - but it can play Listn Again shows - but that is a different problem I think.

andyg
2007-12-11, 15:43
OK, perhaps Radiotime is no longer handling the Filters query param properly... Bill?

Paul Webster
2007-12-11, 15:44
Found it - it should be "formats" not "filters".

andyg
2007-12-11, 15:48
Where did you find that?

Paul Webster
2007-12-11, 15:51
In their developer reference page.

With my location as London - I told it to fetch my local stations -
and I verified it by creating the URL by hand and looking at the resulting response with "filters" and "formats".

http://wiki.radiotime.com/doku.php?id=dev:doc:opml:guide:start

andyg
2007-12-11, 15:52
Heh wow, I did not even know about that page. Thanks. :)

Reciva
2008-01-12, 14:23
Hi,

I thought would provide some clarifications with regards to Reciva:

1) Reciva [directory] services are actually avalable as a web service (under license), but under that scenario a filter applies with regards to the supported codecs (i.e. no Real streams, if the Real codec is not natively supported)

2) Reciva licenses its software (with support for all major and most most minor codecs) bundled with the Reciva directories for live and on-demand radio, as well as podcasts, and premium services (Pandora, Live365, Sirirus, etc.), but this is currently available only for certain Samsung and Marvell processors (a wider range will be supported over the course of 2008/2009). The Reciva software currently cannot run on the processor powering the SB2.

3) It is correct that most of the Reciva-powered radios in the market (30+) use Reciva modules, i.e. Reciva software "packaged" into a complete digital platform for audio devices. This is the preferred form for how many manufacturers source the technology from Reciva, a "one-stop" solution. Contrary to what many people think, Reciva does NOT manufacture any "chips".

4) Reciva does not manufacture, retail or distribute any devices. Reciva only sells to consumer electronics companies and original equipement/device manufatcurers (OEMs, ODMs). In that sense Reciva doesn't compete Slim Devices/Logitech at all (a very common misperception).

Hope this clarifies things.

Andrew (ajr@reciva.com)

andyg
2008-01-12, 14:36
Any radio directoy such as Reciva could be implemented similar to RadioTime, it's just a simple hierarchical listing of radio stations.

sixofone
2008-01-12, 15:58
Any radio directoy such as Reciva could be implemented similar to RadioTime, it's just a simple hierarchical listing of radio stations.

It is simple, but the Reciva implementation is far more convincing than the current mish-mash of radio directories available on my Squeezeboxes.

I can't help but think that Slim Devices/ Logitech are missing a trick here: have they actually sampled Reciva radios to see what exactly they do and how easily they do it? Certainly the UK market for internet radio devices appears to be building some real mass-market momentum. And of course radios using the Reciva platform can also stream the content of a media library just like Squeezebox. The popular Roberts WM-201 even plays FLAC, in addition to packing an alarm clock, remote control, wi-fi/ ethernet connectivity and decent stereo amplification with iPod inputs and so on. It typically sells for no more than the cost of a Squeezebox yet appears to offer the mass-market consumer so much more.

y360
2008-01-13, 07:40
According to the following press release, Reciva radios will soon support Rhapsody Direct.

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20080110005267&newsLang=en

So it seems that Reciva devices will actually compete with SB for the user segment that's using only Squeezenetwork with their SB

trilly
2008-02-17, 08:03
and now Pandora , see http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=F412766C-310E-4CE0-9DD2-1FBFBA910BB9

First post to this forum and thought I would let you know why I am here.

Around Xmas time was just about to buy SB3 and then saw Duet and been waiting since. In the meantime doing some research into a NAS. However, wife keeps nagging me about not being able to get Radio station as we are in a very bad FM area even with boaster aerials.

In a flash I am down to Currys for its 35 IRMA1 Logik Wifi radio and what a find. Sound quality is very poor, muffled BUT at least I can get all the radio stations (wife now happy) and more, its found my music libary via UnNP music server and all up and running within 3 mins via my WiFi network, would have been quicker if I had not hidden my SSID and had to type it in.

Since purchasing my IRMA1 have installed Slimserver to get an idea of the Interface with Softsqueeze and have been disappointed by comparing the ease of use of Receiva Portal in conjunction with a Receiva Chipset. I get Real support, WMA and OnDemand options for any BBC station all in under say BB1 or 4, no plugins, no filters, parameters, its just works and so easy my wife uses it.

Now I do not know quite what to do as appreciate the SB3 or Duet is going to be musically superior to what I have now, but feel that I would be using something inferior having seen what else is around. What I was hoping for is to see the Reciva options in the Slimserver radio listing and / or also looking out for some superior Receiva chipset based products but so far not seen anything comaparable to the SB3 / Duet options.

I called Ripcaster (based in UK) a couple of days ago but knowledge of Reciva options limited to poor 1st generations solutions and they have not got involved since. So am I glad I found this post to see some other people with a bit more knowledge than me also feel the same way.

I guess in a way will still get the Duet but I don't think it is going to replace my IRMA1 and even thinking of getting a second one!

Reciva
2008-02-17, 09:25
Hi,

If you are unhappy with the sound quality of the Logik (it is a "value for money" device) you might want to try the Tangent Quattro (available at www.firebox.co.uk) or the Roberts Radio. The latter is a stereo device, whereas the former is the highest quality mono device that you can get with the Reciva service.

Both units are Reciva-enabled devices and you can transfer your favourites and other personalization features to the new radios just by registering them on the Reciva website.

Regards

Andrew

P.S.: Sorry but nither the SB3 nor the Duett currently are compatible with the Reciva directory, because SD hasn't licensed the directory/sofwtare.

Paul Webster
2008-03-04, 07:43
... Sound quality is very poor, muffled ...
It seems that this is a configuration/design fault in the IRMA1 - and if you are prepared to do a bit of hacking then you can get around it by disabling the erroneously set "de-emphasis" option.

More about that on the Sharpfin wiki.

majones
2008-03-25, 10:18
Sorry but nither the SB3 nor the Duett currently are compatible with the Reciva directory, because SD hasn't licensed the directory/sofwtare.
Andrew - is this on the cards?

Pale Blue Ego
2008-03-25, 11:31
Screamer radio includes a very nice set of about 4000 stations broken down by Genre and Location. It is built from suggestions by a worldwide group of listeners. It's a standard xml file.

http://www.screamer-radio.com/

The Screamer Windows program automatically updates the preset list when you start the program.

Here is the current list of presets if anybody wants to look at it.

trilly
2008-03-26, 08:14
It seems that this is a configuration/design fault in the IRMA1 - and if you are prepared to do a bit of hacking then you can get around it by disabling the erroneously set "de-emphasis" option.

More about that on the Sharpfin wiki.

Thanks for above, made change as suggested with deemphasis option and helped a lot.

Reciva
2008-03-31, 05:59
Andrew - is this on the cards?

Lets just say, that I have known Logitech for many years and that the topic has been explored over a drink or two at CES. Nothing has really come of it to date.

It is eminently feasible (technically and comercially) to seperate the Reciva content system from the Reciva hardware, although a few features are so tightly intertwined with the firmware, that they would need major rework, if they were seperated.

That being said, cross-integration is probably not very high on the priority list of either company.