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View Full Version : splitting the digital stream



tingtong5
2007-11-24, 07:11
I did a simple experiment this evening which actually worked :-))))

I did put a "tee" command in between the pipeline in customconvert.conf , so sound will still be piped to the squeezebox (if you don't do so it will
skip all tracks of a cd and stops playing). But instead of letting tee write to a file I had it write to a named pipe (aka fifo).

Then I had a play play the sound from that named pipe.

Ok so why do I want all this? Well it does give one the possibility of using the squeezebox to control what you wanna listen to but instead have the sound get out of your soundcard. The reason I want this is is because I find the digital out of the SB3 quite bad (when connecting a high-end cd
player its sounds way better). Another reason to want this is to get rid of the delays between tracks, because brutefir can now keep running
instead of restarting between tracks.

Ok so please don't flame me about the impossibility of my "sounds better" statement, this is about letting you know a way to accomplish the sound of
the songs that the SB3 is playing to come out of a soundcard.

Ok now the bad news. This whole process works but not for long :P Especially when the fifo is filled but not used at the other end, the whole process get stuck :P

tingtong5
2007-11-24, 07:13
I am really anxious for a solution to split the digital stream in order to:
- keep the squeezebox fed with data so it will keep playing (otherwise it stops working..)
- use the digital out of my soundcard

If anyone has a good solution for this I would be very happy to hear it! :)

tingtong5
2007-11-25, 00:18
To me this would be the most interesting feature of slimserver but apparently I am alone in this :P

vrobin
2007-11-25, 03:53
If you want to run slimserver content through a sound card, why not use softsqueeze?

servies
2007-11-25, 05:34
Ok so why do I want all this? Well it does give one the possibility of using the squeezebox to control what you wanna listen to but instead have the sound get out of your soundcard. The reason I want this is is because I find the digital out of the SB3 quite bad (when connecting a high-end cd player its sounds way better).
At what bitrate did you compress your music, try using FLAC.
And then again... I wonder what soundcard you have that it sounds better than a squeezebox...


Another reason to want this is to get rid of the delays between tracks, because brutefir can now keep running instead of restarting between tracks.
What delays? I'm having none... Are you using mp3 as compression as that doesn't really support gappless playback (yet)


Ok now the bad news. This whole process works but not for long :P Especially when the fifo is filled but not used at the other end, the whole process get stuck :P
That was to be expected :D

tingtong5
2007-11-25, 07:57
If you want to run slimserver content through a sound card, why not use softsqueeze?
Because I want to keep the real thing as my userinterface (remote control, display)

tingtong5
2007-11-25, 08:01
At what bitrate did you compress your music, try using FLAC.
And then again... I wonder what soundcard you have that it sounds better than a squeezebox...

I AM using flac :P
My current soundcard does not nessacarily sound better then the SB3, but it would at least give me the flexibility to try some good soundcards (like RME).

Also I want to connect my subwoofer to the same pc and use digital x-over. This is not possible now because the sound coming out of the SB3 is delayed for 20 seconds or so :P



What delays? I'm having none... Are you using mp3 as compression as that doesn't really support gappless playback (yet)

Maybe I was not clear about this. The delays are because of the fact that the brutefir process is restarted every track. I'll post an url to my configuration later on.

Ronald

tingtong5
2007-11-25, 08:07
http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?BrutefirFilter

Second part (Working Brutefir example providing 24 bits dithered output) is my config.

vrobin
2007-11-25, 08:20
Your setup looks totally marginal. I know SB and SC are good... but not that good as somebody wants to use SB Screen and SB Remote to drive a totally different sound player.

Maybe you should use some pda/itouch/jive remote (when it comes) to control a softsqueeze that plays through your soundcard.

I'm not sure SB digital output is "that bad" but for sure it won't do what you're trying to do with brutefir. It sounds like you're having fun, but if I were you, I would better buy a nice upsampling dac... of course for digital crossover it will cost you a little money ;)

tingtong5
2007-11-25, 08:41
Your setup looks totally marginal.

I'm afraid I have no clue why you are saying this?



I know SB and SC are good... but not that good as somebody wants to use SB Screen and SB Remote to drive a totally different sound player.

Again I am not sure I understand this :P I want to drive a different sound card because for me SB3 is not good enough. I am saying this from an audiophile perspective. Price/quality ratio of SB3 is splendid of course!



Maybe you should use some pda/itouch/jive remote (when it comes) to control a softsqueeze that plays through your soundcard.

I agree this is an alternative I should look into! :)



I'm not sure SB digital output is "that bad" but for sure it won't do what you're trying to do with brutefir. It sounds like you're having fun, but if I were you, I would better buy a nice upsampling dac... of course for digital crossover it will cost you a little money ;)
I am certainly having fun playing with all this. Brutefir corrects my room response and I can't live without it anymore! So in the end I am not using brutefir for fun but for obtaining a high end sound.

I do have a Apogee Mini DAC, it doesn't upsample though and I don't see any reason why I would want it to... In my experience upsampling sounds different but not necessarily better.

Also I don't see why digital X-over would cost me money, I will use brutefir for this as well..

Regards,

Ronald

vrobin
2007-11-25, 09:04
>>Quote:
>>Originally Posted by vrobin View Post
>>Your setup looks totally marginal.
>
>I'm afraid I have no clue why you are saying this?

I meant: what you want to achieve/do is very uncommon and specific.

>>Quote:
>>Originally Posted by vrobin View Post
>>I know SB and SC are good... but not that good as somebody
>>wants to use SB Screen and SB Remote to drive a totally
>>different sound player.
>
>Again I am not sure I understand this :P I want to drive a
>different sound card because for me SB3 is not good enough.
>I am saying this from an audiophile perspective. Price/quality
>ratio of SB3 is splendid of course!

I meant: squeezebox is a nice piece of hardware, squeezecenter is a nice piece of software, but they are not "the best of all on the surface of the earth" (there are better hadware/software).
Somebody who wants to play media files through brutefir+a soundcard digital out and control it with a "hand device" has many other (simpler?) choices like drive any dlna software with a pda or itunes with an itouch (or anything like this).


>>Quote:
>>Originally Posted by vrobin View Post
>>Maybe you should use some pda/itouch/jive remote (when it
>>comes) to control a softsqueeze that plays through your
>>soundcard.
>
>I agree this is an alternative I should look into! :)

Don't you want a mac+itunes with a nice soundcard? ;)

It would be less strange than using squeezebox+its remote as a simple ir receiver+nice lcd panel (as in the setup you want, squeezebox is nothing less than an ir receiver+lcd display).

>>Quote:
>>Originally Posted by vrobin View Post
>>I'm not sure SB digital output is "that bad" but for sure it
>>won't do what you're trying to do with brutefir. It sounds
>>like you're having fun, but if I were you, I would better buy
>>a nice upsampling dac... of course for digital crossover it
>>will cost you a little money ;)
>
>I am certainly having fun playing with all this. Brutefir
>corrects my room response and I can't live without it anymore!
>So in the end I am not using brutefir for fun but for obtaining
>a high end sound.

It sounds strange for me. As a light audiophile and strong music lover, I try to banish everything that changes the signal. A few years back I banished GraphicEQ to keep "untouched sound" for the same reason. Why bought expensive pure cables if before the sound get through it, it's change by many mathematics equations!
For the same reason (and long listening tests/experiences), friends of mine put their Tact devices on ebay.

>I do have a Apogee Mini DAC, it doesn't upsample though and I
>don't see any reason why I would want it to... In my experience
>upsampling sounds different but not necessarily better.

My only experience with upsampling is 3DLab D/A Converter (192k upsample) and foobar secret rabbit and they both are very positive experiences...

>Also I don't see why digital X-over would cost me money,
>I will use brutefir for this as well..

I was talking about hardware digital filters that AFAIK costs a lot of money.

Regards,
Robin

tingtong5
2007-11-26, 01:17
I meant: what you want to achieve/do is very uncommon and specific.

Ah ok, I understood the opposite :P But yes you are right, this is very specific!



I meant: squeezebox is a nice piece of hardware, squeezecenter is a nice piece of software, but they are not "the best of all on the surface of the earth" (there are better hadware/software).

I agree, however I like the concept of Squeezebox/slimserver very much and I did not find anything (regardless of price) that I liked better, execept for the Transporter of course ;-)



Somebody who wants to play media files through brutefir+a soundcard digital out and control it with a "hand device" has many other (simpler?) choices like drive any dlna software with a pda or itunes with an itouch (or anything like this).

Going the pda route is certainly an option I am looking into! :)



Don't you want a mac+itunes with a nice soundcard? ;)

No because pc hardware is much cheaper and I am not very fond about itunes either.



It would be less strange than using squeezebox+its remote as a simple ir receiver+nice lcd panel (as in the setup you want, squeezebox is nothing less than an ir receiver+lcd display).

I don't agree. It is the slimserver software that makes the SB3 so succesfull in my opinion.



It sounds strange for me. As a light audiophile and strong music lover, I try to banish everything that changes the signal.

The depends on how you look at it. In my view the room changes the sound a lot, therefore I think using room correction is not changing the sound but making up for the alteration that is inevitable.



A few years back I banished GraphicEQ to keep "untouched sound" for the same reason.

Thats a totally different thing, especially if you are just "guessing" of what to equalize and how much.



Why bought expensive pure cables if before the sound get through it, it's change by many mathematics equations!

Again this depends on how you look at it, see above.



For the same reason (and long listening tests/experiences), friends of mine put their Tact devices on ebay.

In my case it is a clear improvement. I did not try the Tact devices.



My only experience with upsampling is 3DLab D/A Converter (192k upsample) and foobar secret rabbit and they both are very positive experiences...

I guess it is a matter of taste and also it will vary depending of the combination of devices you have in your setup. I have nothing againts upsampling , I just do not see a reason why I "need" it.



I was talking about hardware digital filters that AFAIK costs a lot of money.

You are right of course, but since I have a pc I do not need this extra hardware :-)

Thanks for your replies and tips!

Regards,

Ronald