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PHB
2007-11-09, 08:11
This morning I got up and tried to turn my squeezebox on. It said something like "connecting to slimserver" and then just shuts off.

Now, my server machine is setup to go to sleep after several hours of idle time so I would expect it to be unable to connect, but I don't expect it to shut off, I wanted to just access some radio.

Various semi-random button pushing seemed to make it break out of this crazy behaviour. Is there a correct way to make it turn on when it can't find the server? What a silly (and hostile) thing for an appliance like this to do.

Thanks for any advice.

danco
2007-11-09, 08:29
First of all, if the SB can't connect to the server there very is little it can do, so it just stays dark. I suppose it might have been possible to throw up an error message, but I don't think that is necessary.

Second, this seems to be a known problem if the server machine has been asleep for a long time. The cause isn't known, it may be nothing to do with the SB and be related to the wireless connection.

Third, to answer your question, there is a standard way of getting the SB alive again.

Press AND HOLD the Power button. After some time (5 seconds, I think, though it always feels longer) the SB will come alive with the message "Set up networking". If you want to connect to SqueezeNetwork, keep pressing the Up (or Down) button until you reach that option.

If your server is alive and you want to connect to it, don't go through the whole setting up network process, just press Up to get to the "Connect to server" message, and then pressing Right will produce the connection.

toscana
2007-11-09, 08:38
I usually do one of the following things:
- Either I just leave the display dark and the SB will automatically come to life again when the slimserver is started.
- Or I switch to SqueezeNetwork before I shut down the server. (Actually, it would be a great feature if the SB would automatically connect to SN when it is switched off with the power button)

toscana

PHB
2007-11-09, 09:04
First of all, if the SB can't connect to the server there very is little it can do, so it just stays dark. I suppose it might have been possible to throw up an error message, but I don't think that is necessary.

Second, this seems to be a known problem if the server machine has been asleep for a long time. The cause isn't known, it may be nothing to do with the SB and be related to the wireless connection.

Third, to answer your question, there is a standard way of getting the SB alive again.

Press AND HOLD the Power button. After some time (5 seconds, I think, though it always feels longer) the SB will come alive with the message "Set up networking". If you want to connect to SqueezeNetwork, keep pressing the Up (or Down) button until you reach that option.

If your server is alive and you want to connect to it, don't go through the whole setting up network process, just press Up to get to the "Connect to server" message, and then pressing Right will produce the connection.

What do you mean "there's very little it can do". This device is designed to work by itself without the server as well as with it. There's plenty it could do. Does a normal stereo receiver turn itself off when the station you were tuned to is not broadcasting?

PHB
2007-11-09, 09:06
I usually do one of the following things:
- Either I just leave the display dark and the SB will automatically come to life again when the slimserver is started.
- Or I switch to SqueezeNetwork before I shut down the server. (Actually, it would be a great feature if the SB would automatically connect to SN when it is switched off with the power button)

toscana

Thanks toscana. A better solution would be for the box to switch to squeezenetwork automatically if it can't connect to the server. This is so obvious it amazes me that they actually programmed it to just shutdown.

Mark Lanctot
2007-11-09, 09:12
What do you mean "there's very little it can do". This device is designed to work by itself without the server as well as with it. There's plenty it could do.

No, it is not designed to work by itself. The Squeezebox is a client. It is entirely dependent on a server.

It's not at all like a CD player, and that's its advantage: it's supremely flexible and configurable because the changes are all done in software.


A better solution would be for the box to switch to squeezenetwork automatically if it can't connect to the server. This is so obvious it amazes me that they actually programmed it to just shutdown.

This has been considered but it could be very confusing. At any given time, you wouldn't know if you are connected to SqueezeNetwork or SlimServer. "Why can't I play my local files?" Because you're connected to SqueezeNetwork and you didn't even realize it.

There's better SN/SS integration coming up in SqueezeCenter 7, but that's where things stand at the moment and the auto-switch mechanism will satisfy some people and confuse many others.

PHB
2007-11-09, 09:33
No, it is not designed to work by itself. The Squeezebox is a client. It is entirely dependent on a server.

It's not at all like a CD player, and that's its advantage: it's supremely flexible and configurable because the changes are all done in software.


It's not entirely dependent on a local slimserver. It's dependent on a network connection to the Internet or local net. The wireless router provides that.





This has been considered but it could be very confusing. At any given time, you wouldn't know if you are connected to SqueezeNetwork or SlimServer. "Why can't I play my local files?" Because you're connected to SqueezeNetwork and you didn't even realize it.

There's better SN/SS integration coming up in SqueezeCenter 7, but that's where things stand at the moment and the auto-switch mechanism will satisfy some people and confuse many others.


Well, it's one thing to switch while in mid-stream, but a totally different situation during a power-on sequence. Switching in this situation should confuse no one.

Mark Lanctot
2007-11-09, 09:38
It's not entirely dependent on a local slimserver. It's dependent on a network connection to the Internet or local net. The wireless router provides that.

No. The server not only serves up the music, it also generates the screen. If you're not connected to either SlimServer or SqueezeNetwork you have a paperweight.

Note I didn't say "SlimServer", I said "server", and that's either SlimServer or SqueezeNetwork.


Well, it's one thing to switch while in mid-stream, but a totally different situation during a power-on sequence. Switching in this situation should confuse no one.

You sure? Your SlimServer crashes overnight and the SB flips to SN. You wake up in the morning, not realizing this happened, and want to play a local file. Why won't it work?

Or you forgot to set your alarm in SqueezeNetwork and your alarm doesn't go off.

PHB
2007-11-09, 09:45
No.
You sure? Your SlimServer crashes overnight and the SB flips to SN. You wake up in the morning, not realizing this happened, and want to play a local file. Why won't it work?

Or you forgot to set your alarm in SqueezeNetwork and your alarm doesn't go off.

So the answer is to not even let you turn the squeezebox on. Ya right.

Mark Lanctot
2007-11-09, 09:50
Sorry for trying to explain things, I guess you're just looking to rant.

Rant away, but don't expect the developers to jump all over your request with that attitude.

Way to fit in with the community and make it work for you.

*plonk*

PHB
2007-11-09, 10:08
Sorry for trying to explain things, I guess you're just looking to rant.

Rant away, but don't expect the developers to jump all over your request with that attitude.

Way to fit in with the community and make it work for you.

*plonk*

Sorry for making you think I'm ranting. I'm just trying to point out that your defense of the current behaviour of the squeezebox software seems rather dogmatic. As a consumer device it should "just work". Presenting a blank screen to the user is not an acceptable behaviour (IMHO).

snarlydwarf
2007-11-09, 11:17
When I select any of a handful of inputs on my TV I get a blue screen.

Because the TV is being told (by ME), "Please play whatever is plugged into the VGA input" and nothing is there.

When I tell my SB to play from a local server and then turn off the local server it should, like my TV, be blank. Displaying Some Other Server would not be what I asked for: it would be akin to my TV auto-changing inputs when I turned off my DVD player or PlayStation... "Ooops, sorry, I no longer see anything here, let me go find another input for you! How about Cable? Oh and is this a signal I see over on NTSC?"

PHB
2007-11-09, 12:36
When I select any of a handful of inputs on my TV I get a blue screen.

Because the TV is being told (by ME), "Please play whatever is plugged into the VGA input" and nothing is there.

When I tell my SB to play from a local server and then turn off the local server it should, like my TV, be blank. Displaying Some Other Server would not be what I asked for: it would be akin to my TV auto-changing inputs when I turned off my DVD player or PlayStation... "Ooops, sorry, I no longer see anything here, let me go find another input for you! How about Cable? Oh and is this a signal I see over on NTSC?"

Yes, the SB is being told (by ME) to power on and it keeps powering off.

The blue screen is the key point. It's not really blank is it. Plus there may be a power indicator of some sort telling you that the tv is actually on, plus you have the option to change the channel/input. The SB just turns itself off. Your analogy is not a very good one.

If changing to SN from SS is not acceptable in this situation then any number of alternatives to turning off would be great, including making the screen completely blue and allowing me to change inputs manually. But of course, just leaving a "cannot connect" message on the screen would be better, it could even retry every few seconds and it could even tell me which buttons to push to cancel the connection attempts.

It's clear you guys love your SB's even to a fault. I hope I do someday too.

snarlydwarf
2007-11-09, 12:45
Yes, the SB is being told (by ME) to power on and it keeps powering off.

Not really: it is never off. It just has nothing to display. The "off" button is a misnomer: it isn't off, since the display is very much on, and very much updated by the server. If the server vanishes, though, it is still exactly as much "on" just with nothing to display.

Again, exactly like unplugging an input from a TV.



The blue screen is the key point. It's not really blank is it. Plus there may be a power indicator of some sort telling you that the tv is actually on, plus you have the option to change the channel/input. The SB just turns itself off. Your analogy is not a very good one.


So you want the SB to turn the display to all pixels lit when your server crashes? Ouch.



If changing to SN from SS is not acceptable in this situation then any number of alternatives to turning off would be great, including making the screen completely blue and allowing me to change inputs manually. But of course, just leaving a "cannot connect" message on the screen would be better, it could even retry every few seconds and it could even tell me which buttons to push to cancel the connection attempts.

It's clear you guys love your SB's even to a fault. I hope I do someday too.

No, it is clear you haven't thought out the issues involved.

If "losing contact with server" would force a connection to Squeezenetwork... what happens when you reboot your server... suddenly all X SB's in the house switch to SN because your server is unavailable? That would be totally unacceptable from a UI point of view.

As for the "Cannot Connect"... you weren't here a few months ago when someone complained about that, were you....

"OMG it is SOOOOO bright, the heat from the display woke me from a sound sleep!" (Okay, a slight exagerration, but I still don't understand these people who must sleep with their eyes open 2 inches from the display... it is nowhere near bright enough to wake me... my eyes are closed.)

Remember the SB is -never- off unless you disconnect power. It is always on, and always displaying whatever the server tells it to display. If the server is not available, it will be a blank display. That is NOT off, that is a blank display. It is exactly the same as the blue screen on my TV except it doesn't burn up the vfd as quickly.

PHB
2007-11-09, 15:34
You're misdirecting the issue here. The issue is not whether it should switch to SN, you guys have already made it clear that that's not a good idea. The issue is should it just display a blank screen (power on or not, the user sees a dead SB) when it can't connect to the server.

And you're wrong that it can only display what the server tells it to. When I hit the power switch it displays text that clearly didn't come from the server since it's not yet connected. When it boots up it displays text. It doesn't need the server to give me status information and figure out what to do. The thing has firmware, it can display anything it wants when not connected.

snarlydwarf
2007-11-09, 15:51
And, again, displaying anything when it loses contact with the server has annoyed people in the past, and they demanded it be changed.

Whose preference here matters more, the people who complained that the bright light of the "Lost connection" message woke them up, or you?

I know that to you, your preference matters most... but the people who complained several months ago would differ.

(And, again, I don't understand how the SB can produce enough light to wake someone, but that's them.. and they have their wish list and you have yours. Personally I don't care since my server is very stable.... but whatever.)

PHB
2007-11-09, 21:16
And, again, displaying anything when it loses contact with the server has annoyed people in the past, and they demanded it be changed.

Whose preference here matters more, the people who complained that the bright light of the "Lost connection" message woke them up, or you?

I know that to you, your preference matters most... but the people who complained several months ago would differ.

(And, again, I don't understand how the SB can produce enough light to wake someone, but that's them.. and they have their wish list and you have yours. Personally I don't care since my server is very stable.... but whatever.)

Hey, can I get some of what you're smoking?

pfarrell
2007-11-09, 21:41
A SqueezeBox is a Slim Device. It has no brains. It uses the server for everything, including processing commands from the Remote. The SqueezeBox does nothing without a server.

However, the server software code is open source and you can modify it to do whatever you want.

Nothing in the SqueezeBox can change its behavior when there is no server, because the SqueezeBox is too stupid to do anything.

Its a feature.

snarlydwarf
2007-11-10, 00:17
Hey, can I get some of what you're smoking?

Wow is it rude day today or what?

You have your wishlist, others have theirs: nice to know that you're God and your opinion matters more.

Arrogant ****.

*plonk*

danco
2007-11-10, 02:31
You're misdirecting the issue here. The issue is not whether it should switch to SN, you guys have already made it clear that that's not a good idea. The issue is should it just display a blank screen (power on or not, the user sees a dead SB) when it can't connect to the server.

And you're wrong that it can only display what the server tells it to. When I hit the power switch it displays text that clearly didn't come from the server since it's not yet connected. When it boots up it displays text. It doesn't need the server to give me status information and figure out what to do. The thing has firmware, it can display anything it wants when not connected.

Which is why I said "there is very little that the SB can do" when not connected to a a server, rather than "there is nothing it can do."

It would have been possible to show an error message in the situation that concerned you, but SlimDevices decided not to.

In an earlier post you said "any number of alternatives to turning off would be great, including making the screen completely blue and allowing me to change inputs manually".

I have already pointed out how to change inputs manually to get the SB alive again, including connection to a server (local or SqueezeNetwork). Yes, it is mildly annoying to have to do this, and very annoying if one does not know the procedure. But it does work fine.

pfarrell
2007-11-10, 07:32
Arrogant ****.


Snarly, did you misspell it? I thought the proper phrase
was "Arrogant *******!" in this case.

bigfool1956
2007-11-10, 07:51
A reasonable compromise might be for the SB to respond to presses on the remote with a 10 second "can't connect to server" message - but perhaps it is too slim even for that.

snarlydwarf
2007-11-10, 10:51
Snarly, did you misspell it? I thought the proper phrase
was "Arrogant *******!" in this case.

I dunno, **** is a really neat word linguistically, since it can serve as all sorts of parts of speech. It can be a noun, verb, adjective, adverb, even an article.

The -er form is often useful, but I believe it was Lenny Bruce that pointed out that it may be considered a compliment when used that way. "**** You!" is almost a blessing. (Remember this the next time someone tells you that: I always thank them politely and return the blessing: "Why thanks, and **** You, too! Many happy ****s!" For some reason this tends to confuse them.)

I chose the plain simple 4 letter version, sans "er" just to ensure it wasn't construed as a compliment.

snarlydwarf
2007-11-10, 11:08
A reasonable compromise might be for the SB to respond to presses on the remote with a 10 second "can't connect to server" message - but perhaps it is too slim even for that.

Read the first post:


This morning I got up and tried to turn my squeezebox on. It said something like "connecting to slimserver" and then just shuts off.

It does that when you press the On button.

For some reason he wants it to stay on, and to come on whenever the server loses connection...

Which is totally unacceptable: we have been through that before and the current status is because people complained about the "No connection" message displaying and waking them up. Again: personally I do not understand this, and have no desire to argue why some people seem to sleep with their eyes open... but they did have a usability problem, and the timer on the messages is to address that: display an informative message, drop it after a few seconds and keep trying to connect in the background.

(Remember that for some operating systems, such as Linux, the software is periodically restarted to rotate logs. This can be more than a few seconds with large libraries and some slow-starting plugins. Coming back to the party automatically is vital.)

bigfool1956
2007-11-10, 12:25
That's what happens when you read half a thread, then get disturbed and come back to it. You forget what you read first!!

As long as you get an appropriate message I cannot for the life of me see what the problem is......

Maybe it could ask you if you want to connect to squeezenetwork in this case - but I imagine most would want to see why their server is asleep / crashed.........

In IT I have yet to find a group of users who can totally agree on how an interface works, and in the end a decision has to be made or nothing gets done. Same here I guess.

iPhone
2007-11-10, 12:33
The SB is like any new device. As humans, we have to learn how to use and operate it, not the other way around.

My neighbor is so new to SB3 that he keeps calling me to ask why he can’t get to his music library when he is using Squeeze Network. He even goes downstairs to his PC and opens the web browser and it says it can’t find his Squeezebox. Hello!, you are on another network just as you can’t change the channel on your cable box from the DVD input! Just page up and switch networks from the remote and bang your music library will be there.

Anyway back to the issue at hand, the display is one of the most expensive parts of the SB3. Anything that Logitech does to help increase its useable lifespan is OK by me. At least with this company, operations of the device can be changed for the better because of this open forum community. Plugins are available to customize the SB3 to do other things one would like it to also accomplish. But in the end, everybody has to “learn” how to use the device and deal with the way it operates. IMO it would be easier to learn how and what to do, then try to change the world.

pfarrell
2007-11-10, 22:39
Humans either adapt to the device or change it. Been happening at least since the Bronze age.

It is interesting to step back and look at what we consider "eazy to use".

When the telephone was first becoming commercial, you'd pick up the earpiece, and say into the mouthpiece, Mabel, please connect me with Doc Watson. And she would.

In the 1920s, it was predicted that phone usage was exploding so fast, that the entire population of New York city would be required as telephone operators in a few years.

It happened, they added a dial, and the user became the operator. Now you can call numbers anywhere in the planet, you just punch in all the routing codes that Mabel used to know.

danco
2007-11-11, 01:51
Read the first post:

It does that when you press the On button.

For some reason he wants it to stay on, and to come on whenever the server loses connection...


(Sorry, I didn't see how to quote the bit snarlydwarf was quoting).

In his original post, PHB also asked how to get the SB to connect again. It's not entirely obvious how to do this, but I did give him the answer.

Also he complained, justifiably in my opinion, that the SB does not always resume connection after the server has gone to sleep and woken up again. That is an annoying issue that some of us have suffered for ages, and there has been no resolution of it. However, I am not sure it is an SB issue, it may well be an issue with the wireless base station needing a kick into life.

iPhone
2007-11-11, 12:01
In the 1920s, it was predicted that phone usage was exploding so fast, that the entire population of New York city would be required as telephone operators in a few years.

It happened, they added a dial, and the user became the operator. Now you can call numbers anywhere in the planet, you just punch in all the routing codes that Mabel used to know.

What a great observation and an example of what keeps happening daily. Here is my counter observation, even today their are still operators. The phone has been around forever and keeps evolving as we move into the future. It is only now really beginning to be left behind by the cellular phone companies’ ability to make it so cheap that elementary school kids have cellular phones!

Your post makes me think back on all that has happened in my grandmother’s lifetime, the phonograph, telegraph, automobile, telephone, television, airplane, jets, VCRs, Personal Computers, CD players, MP3 players, DVD players, and cellular phones. What our kids would call the dark ages. What do you mean great grandma; you had no TV or Play Station as a child?

jimmythefish
2007-11-21, 12:57
Hi - getting back to the original post in this thread, I was receiving the same error. Turns out I had switched on the firewall on my computer which runs the server, and this had blocked the ports over which the server communicates with the squeezebox. I rectified the problem by adding the exception rules into the firewall as per this article:
http://www.slimdevices.com/su_faq.html#networking-firewall

Moral of the story? Check your computer's firewall. Hope this helps someone.

goldstarsteve@gmail.com
2007-11-28, 09:02
I am a beginner and the blank screen really confuses me although having read this thread I understand it better. I can not accept that it is a good MMI (man machine interface) for the box to give no indication if it is connecting to a network (on the one hand) or simply switched off or broken on the other hand.

hacker
2008-04-16, 04:21
I am a beginner and the blank screen really confuses me although having read this thread I understand it better. I can not accept that it is a good MMI (man machine interface) for the box to give no indication if it is connecting to a network (on the one hand) or simply switched off or broken on the other hand.
I am also a new Squeezebox user, but understand the Squeezebox needs to connect to either Slimserver or my network. What I find confusing after using other platforms and competently hacking them to suit my preferences, is when the Squeezebox screen just blacks out when it cannot connect, what is a new user supposed to think?, is it doing something?, has it crashed???. Surely it would make sense to be faced with a "Cannot Connect To" message like other platforms, with the option to scroll down to something else.

danco
2008-04-16, 07:07
I am also a new Squeezebox user, but understand the Squeezebox needs to connect to either Slimserver or my network. What I find confusing after using other platforms and competently hacking them to suit my preferences, is when the Squeezebox screen just blacks out when it cannot connect, what is a new user supposed to think?, is it doing something?, has it crashed???. Surely it would make sense to be faced with a "Cannot Connect To" message like other platforms, with the option to scroll down to something else.

Are you just complaining about the interface? If so, I would have to agree with you that it would be good to have more information/advice, preferably on the SB itself but perhaps just in the manual.

Or do you need to know what to do in this situation. Solution have been given earlier in this thread and elsewhere, and we can give you further advice if you need it.

hacker
2008-04-16, 09:15
Are you just complaining about the interface? If so, I would have to agree with you that it would be good to have more information/advice, preferably on the SB itself but perhaps just in the manual.

Or do you need to know what to do in this situation. Solution have been given earlier in this thread and elsewhere, and we can give you further advice if you need it.
I am just saying it throws people somewhat,especially new users, when the screen just goes black with no notification of what is going on or options.

mmduf
2008-04-22, 16:52
Good to see I'm not the only one that has this problem. I even sent a post to the forum to see if anyone else has this problem--and I do consider it a problem. No one answered me, so it was good to finally find it here.

I for one (as well as my wife, who hates the thing for this very reason)would love to get a message saying something like "No server found/Go left (or scroll down or whatever) to connect to Squeezenetwork" instead of just a blank screen. I now know the reason it does this, but I'm still bugged by the behavior. Thanks!

I also like the idea of the SB connecting to SN before shutting down, so that it connects again on powering up. Anything but a blank screen!

fakarava2
2008-04-24, 06:21
What a pity, again it does not work.
One of the nightlies was OK a few days ago(I don't remember the version), but with that of April 23 I can't connect my SB3 and my TP, even after re-entering the code...

fakarava2
2008-04-24, 23:46
What a pity, again it does not work.
One of the nightlies was OK a few days ago(I don't remember the version), but with that of April 23 I can't connect my SB3 and my TP, even after re-entering the code...
Uninstalled SC7 AND its plugins
Loaded ver 7.0.1.19101
Now it works, but let us hope that it will last...
My audiophile buddy will be here this week-end, so I won't tell him about this problem ;-)

boonkang
2009-07-31, 12:03
[QUOTE=Mark Lanctot;241407]No, it is not designed to work by itself. The Squeezebox is a client. It is entirely dependent on a server.
QUOTE]

This is contradictory to what have said on FAQ on logitechsqueezebox website:

Q: Does my computer need to be running in order to use a Squeezebox player?
A: No—your computer is only required when playing your local music library from your hard drive. To play your local music, your computer needs SqueezeCenter software installed and running. If you simply wish to play Internet radio or any of our other music services, your computer does not need to be on.

MeSue
2009-07-31, 12:17
No, it is not designed to work by itself. The Squeezebox is a client. It is entirely dependent on a server.


This is contradictory to what have said on FAQ on logitechsqueezebox website:

Q: Does my computer need to be running in order to use a Squeezebox player?
A: No—your computer is only required when playing your local music library from your hard drive. To play your local music, your computer needs SqueezeCenter software installed and running. If you simply wish to play Internet radio or any of our other music services, your computer does not need to be on.

Without SqueezeCenter software running on a local computer, you still connect to a server--that is what SqueezeNetwork is--a squeezebox server "in the cloud" which you connect to via your Internet connection.

boonkang
2009-07-31, 13:53
[QUOTE=PHB;241389]This morning I got up and tried to turn my squeezebox on. It said something like "connecting to slimserver" and then just shuts off.

Now, my server machine is setup to go to sleep after several hours of idle time so I would expect it to be unable to connect, but I don't expect it to shut off, I wanted to just access some radio.

Various semi-random button pushing seemed to make it break out of this crazy behaviour. Is there a correct way to make it turn on when it can't find the server? What a silly (and hostile) thing for an appliance like this to do.

Thanks for any advice.[/QUUOTE]

I have a slightly different problem with slimserver (SqueezeCenter).
Despite what was said on FAQ that you don't need SqueezeCenter running on your computer to play Internet radio (see quote belows), as soone as I close
SqueezeCenter, the sticky error message on my SB1:

"Lost contact to slim server, check that software is running"

I am stuck with this message and I can't do anything on SB1 until I restart SqueezeCenter. My SB1 is NOT working at all without SqueezeCenter running.

Can anyone help ?

Quote from Slimdevices website FAQ:


Q: Does my computer need to be running in order to use a Squeezebox player?
A: No—your computer is only required when playing your local music library from your hard drive. To play your local music, your computer needs SqueezeCenter software installed and running. If you simply wish to play Internet radio or any of our other music services, your computer does not need to be on.

However, when I shut dowm my computer, I received the sticky error message on my Squeezebox1:

problem: lost contact with SlimServer, check if software is running

This sticky message prevents me from doing anything on Squeezebox until I restart the computer again .

tcutting
2009-07-31, 14:09
As I recall, the SB1 will NOT work with SqueezeNetwork (which allows you to access services without local PC/Squeezecenter (aka Slimserver) running. To access Squeezenetwork you need SB2, SB3/Classic, SB Receiver or Transporter.