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wfaulk
2007-11-01, 06:19
I have a Squeezebox v3 running firmware 81 that I'm using as a wireless bridge for my TiVo Series 3. For normal operations, it seemed to be working fine: getting program listings over the internet, etc. But recently TiVo enabled TiVoToGo service for the Series 3s, which allows me to access the TiVo via my local PCs to share media between the TiVo and the PC.

I was trying to get it to work last night, and I found that it wasn't working as optimally as I thought. First, and I already knew this and just hadn't bothered to figure it out, the TiVo can't get a DHCP address from my wired DHCP server, so I have to assign it one statically. Second, and more importantly, I have horrible intermittent connectivity. Most of the time, I can't get the PC to talk to the TiVo at all (won't even ping), and, when I can, it's flaky and seems slow, and I can't seem to access the Squeezebox at the same time (though I could be wrong about that last part).

I noticed that all the devices on my network see the Squeezebox and the TiVo at the same MAC address. That would certainly explain why the DHCP isn't working correctly, and might be a good reason why the bridge isn't working right (although it might just be working as a Proxy ARP).

So I guess, first I'd like someone to confirm or deny that the Squeezebox and the computers behind its wireless bridge should appear to have the same MAC address, so I can either focus on that or put it out of my mind.

peter
2007-11-01, 07:08
wfaulk wrote:
> I have a Squeezebox v3 running firmware 81 that I'm using as a wireless
> bridge for my TiVo Series 3. For normal operations, it seemed to be
> working fine: getting program listings over the internet, etc. But
> recently TiVo enabled TiVoToGo service for the Series 3s, which allows
> me to access the TiVo via my local PCs to share media between the TiVo
> and the PC.
>
> I was trying to get it to work last night, and I found that it wasn't
> working as optimally as I thought. First, and I already knew this and
> just hadn't bothered to figure it out, the TiVo can't get a DHCP
> address from my wired DHCP server, so I have to assign it one
> statically. Second, and more importantly, I have horrible intermittent
> connectivity. Most of the time, I can't get the PC to talk to the TiVo
> at all (won't even ping), and, when I can, it's flaky and seems slow,
> and I can't seem to access the Squeezebox at the same time (though I
> could be wrong about that last part).
>
> I noticed that all the devices on my network see the Squeezebox and the
> TiVo at the same MAC address. That would certainly explain why the DHCP
> isn't working correctly, and might be a good reason why the bridge isn't
> working right (although it might just be working as a Proxy ARP).
>
> So I guess, first I'd like someone to confirm or deny that the
> Squeezebox and the computers behind its wireless bridge should appear
> to have the same MAC address, so I can either focus on that or put it
> out of my mind.
>

My printer is behind my living room SB3, and they both have the same MAC
address too:

sbwk (172.22.22.251) at 00:04:20:06:6B:C9 [ether] on eth0
jetdirect2 (172.22.22.6) at 00:04:20:06:6B:C9 [ether] on eth0

So that would be normal.

Regards,
Peter

wfaulk
2007-11-01, 08:01
Can you access them both at the same time? Because for me, it seems like I can only ping one or the other. And that looks like because I'm only getting an ARP response from one or the other. I'm not at home now to test in front of the TV, but some remote access shows me that statically putting the (same) MAC address for two devices in my PC's ARP table makes it work at least better. I can at least ping both of them at the same time.

peter
2007-11-01, 09:01
wfaulk wrote:
> Can you access them both at the same time? Because for me, it seems
> like I can only ping one or the other. And that looks like because I'm
> only getting an ARP response from one or the other. I'm not at home now
> to test in front of the TV, but some remote access shows me that
> statically putting the (same) MAC address for two devices in my PC's
> ARP table makes it work at least better. I can at least ping both of
> them at the same time.
>

I can ping them both at the same time.
I can even play music on one of them and print on the other,
simultaneously! ;)

Regards,
Peter

Frorsteig
2007-11-01, 17:33
I am having almost the same problem. My wireless router has seemed a little flaky lately and it appears at times that the Squeezebox has lost it's connection (blank screen). Most of the time the network seems fine, but then I find that the SB will show the off screen (date and weather) and seems to be on the network, but is not pingable until I turn it on and play around with it a bit.

The S3 is on the bridge. After the SB is no longer pingable (but seems to still be on the network) the S3 cannot pull an address from the DHCP server. The really odd thing is that if I run 'Test Connection' from the TiVo at this point it succeeds (it still has a listed address from a previously DHCP connection). If I unplug the SB and let it start up again, the S3 then CAN get an address, which is different from the SB. At this point my other TiVo will then show up and the S3 and the SB are both pingable.

If I didn't see it myself, I would say most of what I wrote wasn't possible. It doesn't make any logical sense.

Does the SB sometimes have issues with being in bridge mode?

@wfaulk - my client table (Linksys WRT54g) shows separate MAC addresses for the S3 and the SB

Running Slimserver 6.5.5 with an SB3 firmware 81

wfaulk
2007-11-01, 18:05
There's a lot of what you say that sounds familiar, like the TiVo being able to do its network test when I can't even ping it, but also a lot that doesn't match my problem, like I've never noticed the SqueezeBox failing to work, and I definitely don't have separate MAC addresses. What firmware is your SqueezeBox running?

I have found that if I manually put my SqueezeBox and the TiVo in my computer's ARP table with the same MAC address, then everything seems to work just fine. Of course, that's less than optimal for many reasons.

I just did a network snoop and determined that I'm just not getting ARP replies when the device connections fail, sometimes for either device. The most recent test I did, the only reason my computer got the SqueezeBox's MAC address is because it did an ARP request requesting my computer's MAC address. God knows why it did that. It requested the MAC address of the SlimServer computer (which is separate from the computer I'm working on) first. I have other devices on the wireless network that respond to ARPs properly, so I don't think it has anything to do with my access point, although it's possible that there's more to it than just that.

y360
2007-11-02, 02:20
For what it's worth, I'm running a Slingbox AV bridged with a crossover cable to a wirelessly connected SB3 with no issues at all

Frorsteig
2007-11-02, 08:07
I am running the SB with firmware 81.

After I had things working again tonight, the S3 once again slipped into network oblivion for no apparent reason. The SB was 'off' at the time. I could still ping the SB, but not the S3. Very strange.

Bridged mode should be an always on connection, correct? Not just when the SB is 'on'.

radish
2007-11-02, 08:55
Bridged mode should be an always on connection, correct? Not just when the SB is 'on'.

Correct. FWIW I have a S3 and Xbox 360 bridged via my Transporter and they both seem to work fine. I have noticed that some routers (or more precisely, I suspect, some DHCP servers) have problems with clients behind the bridge. I haven't tried the TTG functionality yet so can't comment on that, but the Tivo is certainly able to get guide data and Amazon unbox stuff without problems.

Frorsteig
2007-11-02, 15:19
Thanks for the thought regarding routers.

I read on one of the support pages that the Linksys WRT54g v.4 might have some issues with WPA2 security and the SB3. I have backed down to WEP for the moment to see if this will alleviate the problem. If so, I guess a new router will be in the cards :p

I have heard (read a little) about dd-WRT, might that be an option or would it be more of a hardware issue if this is the case?

Mark Lanctot
2007-11-02, 16:37
I read on one of the support pages that the Linksys WRT54g v.4 might have some issues with WPA2 security and the SB3. I have backed down to WEP for the moment to see if this will alleviate the problem. If so, I guess a new router will be in the cards :p

Perhaps with the stock Linksys firmware, but mine's been on WPA2/AES for about 2 years now.


I have heard (read a little) about dd-WRT, might that be an option or would it be more of a hardware issue if this is the case?

Now I am using DD-WRT. Rather than getting another router, it's worth a try.

My WRT54G v4 is remarkably stable with DD-WRT. I can't remember even having to reset it, and I haven't had a single issue with it.

Frorsteig
2007-11-02, 19:28
Have you been using the SB3 in bridged mode with a TiVo or some other networked appliance?

Mark Lanctot
2007-11-02, 19:32
No.

I did try it with a laptop. It worked fine for Internet access but file sharing was problematic.

Unfortunately I think it's the SB, not the router - when I reverted to the laptop's wireless card, everything worked perfectly.

Frorsteig
2007-11-02, 20:59
Gotcha.

So far, with just WEP enabled, the S3 has stayed present on the network seeing (and being seen) by the other TiVo as well as broadcasting itself over Bonjour. So it appears it may be either a router issue and perhaps the DD-WRT firmware (or different router) would fix that or the SB3 has a bug with bridging and WPA2 security.

dSw
2007-11-04, 11:09
I've recently had a similar issue with bridging, and it appears to be WPA2-related. My Slimserver PC is bridged using my SB2 and I lose connection to SS from the WLAN after the WPA2 Group Key renewal period.

This is a repeatable issue and is resolved by either rebooting the router or re-entering the network settings in my SB2. My router is a Linksys WAG-200G, but I had the same issue with my previous rouer - which was a USR 9106.

I raised the issue with technical support and it ended up in bug http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5533

Frorsteig
2007-11-04, 13:03
Thanks for the information. Sounds like flashing to a different firmware won't resolve the problem and at this point might be more of a risk than a benefit.

Mark Lanctot
2007-11-04, 13:06
Well, if you're going to get rid of the router anyway, you might as well flash it with DD-WRT first. It's worth a try.

Although I'm not using bridging full-time, I've never had a problem with my SB2, my (former) SB3 and my Transporter with WPA2/AES and a re-key interval of 30 seconds.

Make sure you're not using WPA2/TKIP, that's not entirely supported.

Frorsteig
2007-11-04, 15:05
The router has been otherwise fine and I had not planned on getting rid of it. I tried with WPA2 and AES only and the problem happened again. Now using WPA and AES and will see if things remain workable.

wfaulk
2007-11-04, 16:37
Argh. Somehow I wasn't getting updated with these new posts.

Anyway, my wireless router is a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 running Tomato firmware. It was set for WPA/WPA2-Personal authentication with TKIP encryption. I changed it to WPA/WPA2-Personal authentication with TKIP/AES encryption and now everything seems to be working fine. (Well, other than the two devices having the same MAC address, making my DHCP server useless for these two devices.) Hopefully it will stay that way.

Thanks for the help, guys.

wfaulk
2007-11-05, 13:06
Actually, now it looks like the Squeezebox is neither processing nor forwarding network broadcast packets. Has anyone seen that behavior before?

allisong
2007-11-25, 06:06
I've recently had a similar issue with bridging, and it appears to be WPA2-related. My Slimserver PC is bridged using my SB2 and I lose connection to SS from the WLAN after the WPA2 Group Key renewal period.

This is a repeatable issue and is resolved by either rebooting the router or re-entering the network settings in my SB2. My router is a Linksys WAG-200G, but I had the same issue with my previous rouer - which was a USR 9106.

I raised the issue with technical support and it ended up in bug http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5533

I have the very same issue, my setup is a LinSys WAG300N wireless with WAP-2 AES enabled, I then have three Squeezeboxes connected fine, one of these is bridged with a hotspot behind it that links to the garage where I have another SB. All works well as long as we use static addresses, but after some time DHCP will not work beyond the bridge. Indeed after the group key renewal period.

pannetron
2007-11-26, 18:37
I have a Directv HR20 behind my SB3 -- and the SB3 reports its MAC address for both itself and the HR20. This seems to prevent DHCP from working for the HR20 so I statically assigned it an IP address. My router is a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 running DD-WRT. The HR20 VOD works fine and I have no symptoms but the duplicate MAC address worries me! FYI, I just submitted bug #6237 to describe this. I also use WPA2-AES wireless encryption.