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View Full Version : My impressions of Jive remote



tyler_durden
2007-10-07, 10:09
I was going to post a list of operational bugs I found, but every time the remote firmware gets updated, most of the bugs go away, so for now I'll stick to the hardware.

The display is very nice, as is the menuing system, however, as I am aging I find it hard to read some of the smaller text on the screen without my reading glasses. The text for the menus is fine, but the little time display that shows up at the bottom right corner is just about unreadable for me.

I live in Az. desert so my skin is always dry. I find the smooth surface of the scroll wheel to be a little too slippery. It would be nice if it had something on it to make it just a little stickier. Bumps, ridges, or even a rubbery surface would really help.

The buttons are all adequate for the required functions, and the backlighting is great. However, I notice that the LEDs are multiplexed. I can't help but wonder if all that switching on/off of LEDs is going to allow noise into the music. ;) Just kidding! Ha ha!

I really like the block clock screensaver. It matches the modern design of the remote and charger stand.

The battery door fits very tightly and I like that. I have other remotes where the battery door falls off and it really annoys me.

One small complaint about the firmware- there isn't any way to set the display brightness or text size on the SB3. I suppose the remote is aimed at SB4 which won't have a display (?), but I think a lot of people with SB3s will want to use the Jive remote to control their old SB3s so having menu items for SB3 display control would be a real good idea.

More later...

TD

Craig
2007-10-07, 12:16
I can't help thinking that it could do with a touch screen with a soft keyboard. I think it was Erland that said the device will be great for browsing a collection but as it is I can't imagine being able to find something quicker than using lazysearch on the standard remote.

Craig

Mark Lanctot
2007-10-07, 13:17
Personally I don't like touchscreens, based on my experience with a Dell Axim x30 PPC. They tend to get scratched and greasy. And I hate the fact that you end up selecting something when you try to wipe off a bit of dirt.

They seem to be everyone's favourite though, so who am I to say?

And it would solve the agonizing issue of entering long WPA passphrases.

tyler_durden
2007-10-07, 13:39
I don't think a touch screen would be an improvement. The lack of tactile feedback is a real operation problem. I have a tablet PC that I set up as a remote for my system and the large display is nice but I find myself hitting buttons on the screen multiple times because there is some small delay in the system (due to the wi-fi turn-around? or traffic on my non-dedicated server PC). Didn't I press hard enough? Did I miss the button?

In fact, this is one problem I've had with the jive remote- the audible feedback is great, but for some reason, I get some relatively long delays in my system that lead me to press a button twice. Maybe I need to set my old dedicated server back up...

TD

Craig
2007-10-07, 14:02
I thought of a touchscreen as an easier option than adding a keypad because without some decent means of alphanumeric input it won't be better than a standard remote for finding your music.

I wouldn't want one remote for 'finding' and another for 'browsing'

Craig

erland
2007-10-08, 11:43
I can't help thinking that it could do with a touch screen with a soft keyboard. I think it was Erland that said the device will be great for browsing a collection but as it is I can't imagine being able to find something quicker than using lazysearch on the standard remote.

I think it has great potential to be good at browsing your library for something to play when you don't know what you want to play. In that scenario I don't believe LazySearch will work, but the Jive remote will since it shows more than one line at the time. The SB single row display feels a bit limited in this scenario compared to the Jive remote.

However, if you actually know what you like to play, it will be a lot faster to find it with LazySearch compared to the Jive remote.

bonze
2007-10-08, 15:06
How are alphanumeric characters entered currently?
Is it scroll up/down through the alphabet, or is there some sort of graphic like the numbers on the existing remote?

For LazySearch I'd imagined a 3x3 grid 1(ABC)/2(DEF)/3(GHI) etc. and you'd navigate round that in a simlar fashion to using the current remote - Lazy(ish)

hickinbottoms
2007-10-08, 15:56
I've been thinking similar things, and was going to look into this when
my JHB turns up. It'll also give me an excuse to look into Lua.

Stuart

bonze wrote:
> How are alphanumeric characters entered currently?
> Is it scroll up/down through the alphabet, or is there some sort of
> graphic like the numbers on the existing remote?
>
> For LazySearch I'd imagined a 3x3 grid 1(ABC)/2(DEF)/3(GHI) etc. and
> you'd navigate round that in a simlar fashion to using the current
> remote - Lazy(ish)
>
>
>

Craig
2007-10-08, 15:57
I think it has great potential to be good at browsing your library for something to play when you don't know what you want to play. In that scenario I don't believe LazySearch will work, but the Jive remote will since it shows more than one line at the time. The SB single row display feels a bit limited in this scenario compared to the Jive remote.

However, if you actually know what you like to play, it will be a lot faster to find it with LazySearch compared to the Jive remote.

I completely agree but do we want one remote for when we know what we want and another for when we fancy a browse?

Craig

Craig
2007-10-08, 16:12
I've been thinking similar things, and was going to look into this when
my JHB turns up. It'll also give me an excuse to look into Lua.

Stuart


You could also draw a standard keypad on the display with some way of navigating around it. That is if I don't get my way with a touchscreen that pops up a keyboard everytime alphanumeric input is required ;-)

Craig

Patrick Dixon
2007-10-09, 03:04
I've been thinking similar things, and was going to look into this when
my JHB turns up. It'll also give me an excuse to look into Lua.

Stuart

Here's my suggestion from my review thread:


My suggestion would be to use a search type approach, with the first letter being highlighted and selectable using the scroll wheel, a centre click highlighting the next letter for selection (out of those available) and perhaps a double click dropping into the current scroll mode at any point.

I think navigating round a visual keyboard is a horrible approach!

bpa
2007-10-09, 03:18
I think a predictive text approach since the database can be used generate a list of valid words that occur in titles / artists etc and Jive could hold the list for a quick response (i.e. no server interaction when building the search terms).

The difficulty is how to present this on the screen

The scroll wheel could be used to select initial letters (these could be single letter or groups like a mobile) and a list of matching words is then presented. User can toggle to add more letters or to select a word from the list.

Nostromo
2007-10-09, 06:16
They could use a system like on the new iPods. Its a mix between what Patrick describes and predictive search. It works very well, but Logitech would probably have to pay Apple $$$ in order to use it.

Craig
2007-10-09, 08:08
I think a predictive text approach since the database can be used generate a list of valid words that occur in titles / artists etc and Jive could hold the list for a quick response (i.e. no server interaction when building the search terms).

The difficulty is how to present this on the screen

The scroll wheel could be used to select initial letters (these could be single letter or groups like a mobile) and a list of matching words is then presented. User can toggle to add more letters or to select a word from the list.

I don't think predictive text would work, it was mooted when lazysearch was first being thought about but artist names and song titles were just too varied.

A standard lazysearch is all we need along with a decent method of entering the letters. Someone send Mr Hickingbottoms a Jive now :-)

hickinbottoms
2007-10-09, 15:15
I believe it's on it's way (or soon will be) - I responded to the very
kind offer of the JHB a couple of weeks ago...

Stuart

Craig wrote:
> bpa;233772 Wrote:
>
>> I think a predictive text approach since the database can be used
>> generate a list of valid words that occur in titles / artists etc and
>> Jive could hold the list for a quick response (i.e. no server
>> interaction when building the search terms).
>>
>> The difficulty is how to present this on the screen
>>
>> The scroll wheel could be used to select initial letters (these could
>> be single letter or groups like a mobile) and a list of matching words
>> is then presented. User can toggle to add more letters or to select a
>> word from the list.
>>
>
> I don't think predictive text would work, it was mooted when lazysearch
> was first being thought about but artist names and song titles were just
> too varied.
>
> A standard lazysearch is all we need along with a decent method of
> entering the letters. Someone send Mr Hickingbottoms a Jive now :-)
>
>
>

tyler_durden
2007-10-09, 19:20
Displaying the scrolling characters in a circle on the screen so that rotating the thumb wheel rotates the text in the same direction might be a little better than the existing linear display of the characters. This would enable one to see the target character and to know how far/fast to rotate the thumb wheel to get to it.

Combine this with a lazy search that starts narrowing down the list of possibilities as each character is entered might make things go a lot faster.

Maybe the display is too small for all that information to be displayed at one time.

TD

Mark Lanctot
2007-10-09, 21:04
Displaying the scrolling characters in a circle on the screen so that rotating the thumb wheel rotates the text in the same direction might be a little better than the existing linear display of the characters. This would enable one to see the target character and to know how far/fast to rotate the thumb wheel to get to it.

Ooh! I like that idea!

Skunk
2007-10-09, 22:53
Not having to scroll through !,@,#,$,%,^,&,*,(,),_,+,{,},:,/,.,~,[,],and ; would speed things up a bit. And where is the one for the artist formerly known as prince?

BTW, when scrolling through the characters in search (I'm on r679), my forward rotation seems unable to get past / . Going through in reverse doesn't seem to hang on this character.

CardinalFang
2007-10-14, 02:46
Not having to scroll through !,@,#,$,%,^,&,*,(,),_,+,{,},:,/,.,~,[,],and ; would speed things up a bit. And where is the one for the artist formerly known as prince?

I must admit I'm unhappy with the text input mode. It's a one size fits all approach and I would much prefer a smart predictive text solution for artists and albums and perhaps leave it as it is for email names etc. where you might need all those symbols. For WEP input it does restrict itself to Hex, so can't we do something a little smarter for music lists.

For example why display upper and lower case and all the symbols when all you need is one alphabet (upper or lower) and some numbers to home in on a name.

I would also really like some raised bumps on the the wheel so that I can spin it with my thumb more easily and get finer control.

How about a hybrid mode where you can jump along the lists from start character to start character, i.e from the first 'A' name to the first 'B' name using the keys and then scroll to home in on the name? I do think that a page up/page down solution would also be good for long lists.