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View Full Version : My impressions of the Jive remote so far (and some questions)...



autopilot
2007-09-27, 12:21
Hi people :)

Got the remote today. I'm impressed and its a real step in the right direction for the Squeezebox family.

Ok, first some questions...

Whats the headphone socket for then? I take it that the remote will be able to act as a client at some point, but thats not operational right now?

I can't seem to update the firmware - is this because i already have the latest?. The remote tell me that it's version 1 r484 #37 Tue Sep 18th - right? All i get is "to update the software on this remote, choose Continue..." but there is no option to continue(?).

(I'm using SlimServer Version: 7.0 - 13280 - Windows XP - EN - cp1252)


Initial feedback...

Nice simple design, especially the scroll wheel, but i assume this is just a prototype and will be developed further before going retail? No problems with the battery cover here ;)

Holding down Home wont turn the remote off.

Biggest issue is lag. The UI is barely usable at times, really need to work on this - should be #1 priority. One of the reasons i was interested in this remote is that using the web interface via a Nokia 770, PDA etc was quite laggy. But this is currently worse.

Takes a very very long time to load all artwork. I assume that is a certain amount of caching on the remote, what memory does it have?

Other than that, i really need to use the remote for a week or so. Many thanks for letting me take part, keep up the good work :)

bklaas
2007-09-27, 12:41
Whats the headphone socket for then? I take it that the remote will be able to act as a client at some point, but thats not operational right now?



That sounds about right. :)




I can't seem to update the firmware - is this because i already have the latest?. The remote tell me that it's version 1 r484 #37 Tue Sep 18th - right? All i get is "to update the software on this remote, choose Continue..." but there is no option to continue(?).


First, make sure your SS is updated to the newest possible.

on Jive:
Settings->Remote Settings->Advanced->Software Update->

You don't see a 'Network Update' menu item on that screen? If you do, just hit the center button and you should be able to do an over-the-air update.



Holding down Home wont turn the remote off.


You have to hold it down for like 20 seconds. I'm not a fan of this, and neither are a few others in the forum. I'll lobby for a reduction in that.




Biggest issue is lag. The UI is barely usable at times, really need to work on this - should be #1 priority. One of the reasons i was interested in this remote is that using the web interface via a Nokia 770, PDA etc was quite laggy. But this is currently worse.


This will get better with software updates. I will be interested to hear what you think after updating to more current firmware. I think things are already a lot better (not bug free, but better) than in r484.




Takes a very very long time to load all artwork. I assume that is a certain amount of caching on the remote, what memory does it have?


This is an issue that's being worked on actively. Stay tuned...


cheers,
#!/ben

autopilot
2007-09-27, 12:47
You don't see a 'Network Update' menu item on that screen?

Nope! Any ideas?

kdf
2007-09-27, 13:10
On 27-Sep-07, at 12:41 PM, bklaas wrote:

>
> You have to hold it down for like 20 seconds. I'm not a fan of this,
> and neither are a few others in the forum. I'll lobby for a reduction
> in that.

the software shut down should be much shorter, but it's not
implemented yet.
What you have to use now is the Hard shutdown, which will eventually
only be something
used as a last resort if the remote gets locked up

-kdf

bklaas
2007-09-27, 13:11
Well, that's really odd. No option at all?

My only thought is to factory reset it (power off, power on while holding the + key down). But what you are seeing is something I've never seen...

cheers,
#!/ben

Patrick Dixon
2007-09-27, 13:12
You have to hold it down for like 20 seconds. I'm not a fan of this, and neither are a few others in the forum. I'll lobby for a reduction in that.5 seconds would be fine.


This will get better with software updates. I will be interested to hear what you think after updating to more current firmware. I think things are already a lot better (not bug free, but better) than in r484.Seems like a big improvement overnight - still a bit to go, but noticeably better on this mornings update for me.

bpa
2007-09-27, 13:20
I have seen no options on the "update" screen a number of times. This happens if the Jive cannot make contact with Slimserver and there is no SD card installed.

If Slimserver is running and there is a good wifi signal, I usually restart Jive - sometime it requires a restart removing the battery.

autopilot
2007-09-27, 13:22
Done a factory reset and gone back to Settings->Remote Settings->Advanced->Software Update-> but there is still no option there.

It just says "Software update" at the top of the screen and "to update the software on this remote, choose continue..." at the bottom with nothing in-between.

It going to be hard to best test this remote with the ability to update the firmware!

autopilot
2007-09-27, 13:25
I have seen no options on the "update" screen a number of times. This happens if the Jive cannot make contact with Slimserver and there is no SD card installed.

If Slimserver is running and there is a good wifi signal, I usually restart Jive - sometime it requires a restart removing the battery.

No problem with signal, sitting right next to the access point right now. Tried resetting, removing the battery, etc - still no joy. No problems with connection to slimserver either as far as i can tell.

Does an SD card have to be installed then? Even to do wireless "over the air" updates?

bklaas
2007-09-27, 13:34
Does an SD card have to be installed then? Even to do wireless "over the air" updates?

definitely not, but do you have an SD card? I'm baffled why you aren't seeing an update-by-network option, but if you have an SD card you could try that.

this is yesterday's jive.bin file (nothing from today because of build server meltdown). download and put on an SD card
http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/SlimServer_v2007-09-26/

then put it in your jive and go to the software update menu again. If you don't see an option for 'update by SD card', well...let's cross that bridge if we come to it.

autopilot
2007-09-27, 13:42
Not sure if this helps, but after installing SS7 i looked in C:\Program Files\SlimServer\server\Firmware and all the .bins are there for the SB3, transporter etc but nothing for Jive. Is this correct?

I have tried putting jive.bin in that folder, but still no joy.

bklaas
2007-09-27, 13:48
jive.bin isn't stored locally, as it is 11M in size. When you update over the air it actually pulls it down from our build server.

This sounds like you don't have an SD card...correct?

#!/ben

bpa
2007-09-27, 13:49
A file called something like jive_1_rXXX.bin is downloaded by Slimserver from Slimdevice web site and saved in the Cache directory - so unlike the other firmware the jive firmware is updated regularly without a new installation of Slimserver.

autopilot
2007-09-28, 03:00
Ok, i remembered i had a 256mb MMC card kicking around in an old digital camera and that MMC and SD are virtually the same. I worked fine and i updated the firmware.

Nice to see the option to turn the SB3 on/off in the main menu. Also, the menus are far less laggy. Still terrible when browsing artwork though - it's somewhat better once the artwork is cached but you need to view the artwork once. Why not load and cache the artwork in the background so it really for when you enter album list?

Also, i work up to find the remote completely dead. It was left out of the dock all night, so i am assuming the battery is just empy after a night of constant wifi connection?

dean
2007-09-28, 10:13
On Sep 28, 2007, at 3:00 AM, autopilot wrote:
> Nice to see the option to turn the SB3 on/off in the main menu. Also,
> the menus are far less laggy. Still terrible when browsing artwork
> though - it's somewhat better once the artwork is cached but you need
> to view the artwork once. Why not load and cache the artwork in the
> background so it really for when you enter album list?
There's a big effort right now going on to do just this (and a few
other tricks to improve performance.

> Also, i work up to find the remote completely dead. It was left out of
> the dock all night, so i am assuming the battery is just empy after a
> night of constant wifi connection?
That's right. Power management isn't completely working, so keep it
in the charger for now.

autopilot
2007-09-28, 11:25
Excellent, great stuff Dean.

Also, the screen does not shut off when in the charging dock - could be a screen burn issue?

dean
2007-09-28, 11:37
On Sep 28, 2007, at 11:25 AM, autopilot wrote:
> Also, the screen does not shut off when in the charging dock -
> could be
> a screen burn issue?
Not really, the LCD won't really burn in and the LEDs will last a
long time, but we are tweaking the screensaver behavior to dim when
it's not displaying a screensaver.

CardinalFang
2007-09-28, 12:56
Hi people :)

Got the remote today. I'm impressed and its a real step in the right direction for the Squeezebox family.

Got mine too and I'm equally impressed with the hardware for what is a beta, nice and clean.

Setting up wireless was a real pain for me. I don't broadcast the SSID and use Mac address filtering instead of encryption - I live in the country, so have no problem with bandwidth leaches. Unfortunately using either of these options meant that the handset didn't see the network. I had to change my network to broadcast the SSID, turn off MAC address filtering and enable 128 WEP to get back some security and to support the combination of Mac and Windows machines at home. It took about two hours to find the right combination that got all devices working (Mac WEP and Windows WEP don;t always see eye-to-eye)

After a day of being able to use it, it upgraded itself to 609 and I can't get a working build for Mac to match :-(

First visual impressions are good, it's a handsome device. The scroll wheel doesn't work that well for me, I have to use a finger instead of my thumb since the wheel has to physically turn rather than using pressure sensing. I like having the thumbwheel, but wish it was more iPod like in operation.

The screen is really nice and clear, it would be nice if album artwork cached better and if the album artwork were bigger on the screen saver screen during playback to take advantage of the screen real estate, but these are all minor quibbles. Quality of the graphics and fonts is very good.

I also liked the heavy charger base, no chance of it tipping over from a stiff cable. The constant beeping of mode changes is really annoying though.

The only real issue I have right now (apart form it not working!) is response and update of the screen, but I'm assuming that these are optimisation issues, not fundamental performance problems.

Oh - I would also really like to be able to jump to a name in a list really quickly. Entering letters from a scroll wheel is really clunky, so perhaps some form of sticky scrolling using a combination of key and scroll wheel, e.g. to get to "Clash", jumping from the start of the A's to the B's to the C's as an initial step and then scrolling through the C's to get the the name. Or perhaps a more responsive scrolling with acceleration after turning for a while. As I said, the iPod is great at this.

autopilot
2007-10-07, 16:29
OK, downloaded the latest jive.bin today and nightly SC.

I'm loving where this system is going. But the big problem for me is that one of this devices primary functions, browsing and playing my music collection, is still agony to use. I'm wondering if the hardware is capable? Is this current revision going to be able to do the business, or will we have to wait to the next version? Is the unit's proc, memory and/or wifi fast enough to handle the album art smoothly?

Once the cursor has moved the the album and artwork loaded its ok, but only for that album cover. Is it possible to begin caching art as soon as the remote connects to slimserver, even if you are not in the album menu?


Sorry for the negativity, but it's not usable for me yet. Keep up the good work though :)

Craig
2007-10-08, 00:22
I agree with Autopilot.
It would be intersting to know if we are beta testing hardware or just firmware and if the hardware design is final or still subject to change.

Craig

autopilot
2007-10-08, 01:37
I agree with Autopilot.
It would be intersting to know if we are beta testing hardware or just firmware and if the hardware design is final or still subject to change.

Craig

I believe there is a new version of the hardware shipping now...


PS, great city Leeds Craig. I went to Uni up there a few years back :)

mflint
2007-10-08, 02:06
I believe there is a new version of the hardware shipping now...
Really? Do we have any details of the differences? I haven't seen any obvious stuff in the wiki, so I'd guess the mechanics of adding/updating software and firmware are the same?

Matthew

Craig
2007-10-08, 02:07
PS, great city Leeds Craig. I went to Uni up there a few years back :)

I hope you left it as you found it :-)

Craig

dean
2007-10-08, 21:09
On Oct 8, 2007, at 2:06 AM, mflint wrote:

>
> autopilot;233469 Wrote:
>> I believe there is a new version of the hardware shipping now...
> Really? Do we have any details of the differences? I haven't seen any
> obvious stuff in the wiki, so I'd guess the mechanics of
> adding/updating software and firmware are the same?

The updated hardware that will be going out to the JHB testers is a
minor revision to the current beta units to fix some low-level
issues. No new features.

oreillymj
2007-10-08, 23:03
Bummer, I was hoping you were going to say that the jog wheel on the new h/w has some mechanical feedback as it turned, or was similar to the transporter wheel.

With the scroll sound turned off on the current remote, the wheel feels flimsy & imprecise as you turn it. It also feels a little "cheap" . :-(

bpa
2007-10-08, 23:57
The previous version of Jive had some mechanical feedback on the scroll wheel but I didn't liked it as it caused my fingers to slip and it gave jerky results.

I'm assuming other variations were tried before that version and that the price point and power availability limits what controls can be used.