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View Full Version : Which LOSSLESS format? FLAC? Monkey? Shorten?



Philip Bouscarle
2004-01-16, 08:19
A related question:

I have ripped my music into AAC and use I-Tunes as the folder for storage.

I now want to rerip into FLAC (I know - boring) but I-Pods cannot read FLAC
(I don't own an I-pod yet but am considering getting one as a portable music
store/player for when I go to a holiday home we have in France.)

Would I be best advised to keep the existing AAC files for use with I-Tunes,
and create a new folder for the FLAC files for use with my Squeezebox, or
should I delete the existing AACs and convert the new FLACs to AACs?

I know this is more of an I-pod/I-tunes issue than Squeezebox, but any input
would be appreciated.

Philip Bouscarle

-----Original Message-----
From: David Ranch [mailto:dranch (AT) trinnet (DOT) net]
Sent: 15 January 2004 02:48
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: [slim] Which LOSSLESS format? FLAC? Monkey? Shorten?



Hey Everyone,

I'm about to get a Squeezebox for the digital-out ability. Once I have
this, I
finally plan to encode my entire CD collection in a lossless format. Once
lossless, I can stream to the Squeezebox in raw PCM, encode to MP3 for my
SLIMP3 and iPOD, and when some new codec-de-jour comes out, I can encode for

that format without dealing with any transcoding quality loss.

The question is WHICH lossless format?

FLAC? - open (good) but larger file footprint (bad)
Monkey?
Shorten?

These URLS show the various encoding times, resulting file sizes, etc.

http://mp3.radified.com/audio_codec_comparison.htm

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/flac/flac/doc/Attic/comparison.html?re
v=1.50

More URLs of course:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=comparison+of+FLAC+MP
3&btnG=Google+Search


Ps. The ripper, encoder, and SlimDevices server will be a SMP Linux
box. Windows nor OSX is an option. Time is not an issue.. resulting file
size
is somewhat important.

Thanks!

--David
..---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-.
| David A. Ranch - Linux/Networking/PC hardware dranch (AT) trinnet (DOT) net
|
!----
----!
`----- For more detailed info, see http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~dranch
-----'

Jason Snell
2004-01-16, 11:36
I'm not sure what your reasons are for re-ripping to FLAC, but you
might want to consider encoding using AAC or MP3 at a very high
bitrate instead. then you'll get iPod and iTunes compatibility
(iTunes doesn't support FLAC either) at a pretty high quality.

If you really want FLAC, the trick probably is to re-rip to FLAC and
keep those files in their own folder within the same root folder as
your MP3s, and turn off iTunes integration so that Slim Server can
see the FLAC files. (Or, I suppose, you may be able to keep iTunes
integration on and refer to the FLAC files via a playlist, but that
seems like a pain and not very elegant.)

-jason

Philip Bouscarle wrote:

>A related question:
>
>I have ripped my music into AAC and use I-Tunes as the folder for storage.
>
>I now want to rerip into FLAC (I know - boring) but I-Pods cannot read FLAC
>(I don't own an I-pod yet but am considering getting one as a portable music
>store/player for when I go to a holiday home we have in France.)
>
>Would I be best advised to keep the existing AAC files for use with I-Tunes,
>and create a new folder for the FLAC files for use with my Squeezebox, or
>should I delete the existing AACs and convert the new FLACs to AACs?
>
>I know this is more of an I-pod/I-tunes issue than Squeezebox, but any input
>would be appreciated.
>
>Philip Bouscarle
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David Ranch [mailto:dranch (AT) trinnet (DOT) net]
>Sent: 15 January 2004 02:48
>To: Slim Devices Discussion
>Subject: [slim] Which LOSSLESS format? FLAC? Monkey? Shorten?
>
>
>
>Hey Everyone,
>
>I'm about to get a Squeezebox for the digital-out ability. Once I have
>this, I
>finally plan to encode my entire CD collection in a lossless format. Once
>lossless, I can stream to the Squeezebox in raw PCM, encode to MP3 for my
>SLIMP3 and iPOD, and when some new codec-de-jour comes out, I can encode for
>
>that format without dealing with any transcoding quality loss.
>
>The question is WHICH lossless format?
>
>FLAC? - open (good) but larger file footprint (bad)
>Monkey?
>Shorten?
>
>These URLS show the various encoding times, resulting file sizes, etc.
>
>http://mp3.radified.com/audio_codec_comparison.htm
>
>http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/flac/flac/doc/Attic/comparison.html?re
>v=1.50
>
>More URLs of course:
>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=comparison+of+FLAC+MP
>3&btnG=Google+Search
>
>
>Ps. The ripper, encoder, and SlimDevices server will be a SMP Linux
>box. Windows nor OSX is an option. Time is not an issue.. resulting file
>size
>is somewhat important.
>
>Thanks!
>
>--David
>.---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-.
>| David A. Ranch - Linux/Networking/PC hardware dranch (AT) trinnet (DOT) net
>|
>!----
>----!
>`----- For more detailed info, see http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~dranch
>-----'
>
>

dean
2004-01-16, 15:26
Ogg and Speex are supported as QuickTime components here:

http://qtcomponents.sourceforge.net/

I don't see support for FLAC, but if it were added, it should work with
iTunes et al.

On Jan 16, 2004, at 10:36 AM, Jason Snell wrote:

> I'm not sure what your reasons are for re-ripping to FLAC, but you
> might want to consider encoding using AAC or MP3 at a very high
> bitrate instead. then you'll get iPod and iTunes compatibility (iTunes
> doesn't support FLAC either) at a pretty high quality.
>
> If you really want FLAC, the trick probably is to re-rip to FLAC and
> keep those files in their own folder within the same root folder as
> your MP3s, and turn off iTunes integration so that Slim Server can see
> the FLAC files. (Or, I suppose, you may be able to keep iTunes
> integration on and refer to the FLAC files via a playlist, but that
> seems like a pain and not very elegant.)
>
> -jason
>
> Philip Bouscarle wrote:
>
>> A related question:
>>
>> I have ripped my music into AAC and use I-Tunes as the folder for
>> storage.
>>
>> I now want to rerip into FLAC (I know - boring) but I-Pods cannot
>> read FLAC
>> (I don't own an I-pod yet but am considering getting one as a
>> portable music
>> store/player for when I go to a holiday home we have in France.)
>>
>> Would I be best advised to keep the existing AAC files for use with
>> I-Tunes,
>> and create a new folder for the FLAC files for use with my
>> Squeezebox, or
>> should I delete the existing AACs and convert the new FLACs to AACs?
>>
>> I know this is more of an I-pod/I-tunes issue than Squeezebox, but
>> any input
>> would be appreciated.
>>
>> Philip Bouscarle
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Ranch [mailto:dranch (AT) trinnet (DOT) net]
>> Sent: 15 January 2004 02:48
>> To: Slim Devices Discussion
>> Subject: [slim] Which LOSSLESS format? FLAC? Monkey? Shorten?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey Everyone,
>>
>> I'm about to get a Squeezebox for the digital-out ability. Once I
>> have
>> this, I
>> finally plan to encode my entire CD collection in a lossless format.
>> Once
>> lossless, I can stream to the Squeezebox in raw PCM, encode to MP3
>> for my
>> SLIMP3 and iPOD, and when some new codec-de-jour comes out, I can
>> encode for
>>
>> that format without dealing with any transcoding quality loss.
>>
>> The question is WHICH lossless format?
>>
>> FLAC? - open (good) but larger file footprint (bad)
>> Monkey?
>> Shorten?
>>
>> These URLS show the various encoding times, resulting file sizes, etc.
>>
>> http://mp3.radified.com/audio_codec_comparison.htm
>>
>> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/flac/flac/doc/Attic/
>> comparison.html?re
>> v=1.50
>>
>> More URLs of course:
>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF
>> -8&q=comparison+of+FLAC+MP
>> 3&btnG=Google+Search
>>
>>
>> Ps. The ripper, encoder, and SlimDevices server will be a SMP Linux
>> box. Windows nor OSX is an option. Time is not an issue.. resulting
>> file
>> size
>> is somewhat important.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --David
>> .---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------
>> -.
>> | David A. Ranch - Linux/Networking/PC hardware
>> dranch (AT) trinnet (DOT) net
>> |
>> !----
>> ----!
>> `----- For more detailed info, see
>> http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~dranch
>> -----'
>>
>>

David Ranch
2004-01-17, 22:50
>I'm not sure what your reasons are for re-ripping to FLAC, but you
>might want to consider encoding using AAC or MP3 at a very high
>bitrate instead. then you'll get iPod and iTunes compatibility
>(iTunes doesn't support FLAC either) at a pretty high quality.

The main reason is that I need to start ripping my collection to some audio
format. Since disk isn't an issue and I plan to get a Squeezebox, streaming a
full PCM datastream to the unit is ideal. Once lossless, I can convert to
lossless formats without reripping the the original CDs.


>If you really want FLAC, the trick probably is to re-rip to FLAC and
>keep those files in their own folder within the same root folder as
>your MP3s, and turn off iTunes integration so that Slim Server can
>see the FLAC files.

That was one feature that I wanted to ask for. Upon finding duplicates, give
the use a list of what files to list (flac) and what files to hide (mp3). With
this feature, I'll only see the FLAC files when the MP3 counterparts also exist
but only for my iPOD.

This would be very slick.

--David
..----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| David A. Ranch - Linux/Networking/PC hardware dranch (AT) trinnet (DOT) net |
!---- ----!
`----- For more detailed info, see http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~dranch -----'