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View Full Version : Please help me solve a SS .asx streaming problem



scintilla
2007-09-04, 16:57
Ok, so I got into streaming devices in the first place so I could continue to listen to KEXP in Seattle after I moved away during the tech meltdown. For those that dont know, KEXP was the U of W college station and their comp sci dept helped them to get an uncompressed feed off of the board prior to compression (or even leveling) and it sounds great with live in the studio performances. At the time they launched this it was the first 1.4Mb/s stream feed on the net.

So, a few years ago I bought a Roku M500 to replace a usb DAC solution I had cobbled together from a sample dac chip, and I got it to work using SS to transcode the stream. This was when the firmware still worked with SS. Times changed and after a late firmware upgrade to the Roku, I was ready to throw it at a wall, but I still could make it work, I just coulnt use the remote to navigate menus. I bought an SB3, but I couldn't get it to work with the KEXP .asx stream at all, it just kept re-buffering but never made a peep and I gave up. One day fooling around with SS and being generally annoyed at the whole affair, I discovered that if I synched the Roku and the SB3, it worked. Further, if I carefully released the sych, I could shut down the Roku stream after a delay of a few minutes and the SB3 would continue with no problem until I stopped the stream. Bingo, a workaround my wife wouldn't use, but if there was something I really wanted to hear in higher fidelity...

So, I got my new Transporter today, and replaced the Roku in my office with the SB3. Do you think I could get the Transporter to work with the .asx stream? NFW. I've determined that I'm just too stupid to figure this all out. Can some of you please help me solve this before I throw the Transporter at the wall? Yes, it sounds great, but I want it to work for what I want to listen to, and this isnt too much to ask.

This is the stream address, maybe some of you can make it work and then let me know the deep secret of it all:

http://www.kexp.org/audio/kexp-uncomp.asx

mms://media-wm.cac.washington.edu/KEXP-uncompressed

Generally, the first address invokes a pre-roll message about Realaudio sponsorship which is 64kb/s, then connects to the second address which is 1.4Mb/s.

To add insult to injury to lack of support for this in the Transporter, the latest Roku firmware now supports the uncompressed stream natively; so I don't need the 'puter on at all, and thats all I really wanted all along, but of course it sounds nothing like the Transporter.

TIA

bpa
2007-09-04, 17:12
SB3 (and I presume Transporter) doesn't support the mms protocol so you should try

http://media-wm.cac.washington.edu/KEXP-uncompressed

My Sb3 connects and tries to buffer but I don't have a good enough connection to get the stream play.

I think the reason why it works when using the Roku in sync is that the Slimserver is transcoding (and buffering) the stream - to get this effect without sync another player - if you are using a Windows based SS, uncheck "Windows media (built-in)" under Server Setting/Filetypes.

scintilla
2007-09-04, 17:31
Wow. That did it, simply un-checking the Windows media "built in". Thanks so much. This of course proves my belief that I was too stupid to figure this out myself, but now I wonder if I am too stupid to even own one of these devices at all. ;-)

Cheers, and thank you.

andyg
2007-09-04, 17:45
This stream is actually uncompressed WAV! It is not supported, because we expect to see only Windows Media format on an mms URL.

I guess I should say, it's not supported in the firmware. :) Transcoding does work as pointed out above.

scintilla
2007-09-04, 18:28
Any chance you could convince the team that this stream should be added to Squeezenetwork. I know its a bandwidth hog, but it also shows off just what the future potential of the SB3 and Transporter is given a high-end stream and selfishly, I would no longer need my computer and SS to transcode a .wav to a .wav. ;-)

ctbarker32
2007-09-12, 20:08
Hi,

I found this discussion and would also like to add my vote to have KEXP uncompressed support added to future Slimdevices if possible or existing SB3, etc.

I have a Fios 15/2 feed so bandwidth is not an issue.

Thanks.

-CB

dewinkle
2007-09-18, 12:00
I think I am the stupid one. I bought my SB3 for one main purpose and that was to listen to KEXP uncompressed through my high end audio system with an outboard (Levinson) DAC. Can I do this or not? The answer I got earlier this year is that the SB3 doesn't support WAVs.

Is there some piece of middleware that let's you do this?

andyg
2007-09-18, 12:03
The solution is posted above: use SlimServer transcoding by unchecking built-in WMA support.

dewinkle
2007-09-18, 12:14
Thanks, I will try that. I don't use slimserver since all of my music is CD or vinyl, but I will try to set it up for just this purpose and see if I can get it to work. It would be worth it!!

Mark Lanctot
2007-09-28, 14:48
I don't use slimserver since all of my music is CD

Uhh, how do you think the music library of an SB is created? :-)

dewinkle
2007-10-02, 11:38
Uhh, how do you think the music library of an SB is created? :-)

Very true, but the SB can't hold a torch to the sound quality you can get from a Levinson Transport/DAC combo!!!

Mark Lanctot
2007-10-02, 12:34
Probably true, but did you get that uncompressed track to play? Until you compare lossless, it's supposition.

Actually when used purely as a transport, the SB3 has nothing to be ashamed of. Its jitter numbers are extremely low. And with a secure ripper and AccurateRip, we know for a fact that the bits coming out are identical to those off the CD. The humble SB3 has an advantage over a regular CD transport here - the ripping process can be done over and over again to ensure the bits are perfect, a transport has only one shot at it no matter how good it is.

Sona
2007-11-09, 10:34
I just used this method to access the KEXP uncompressed stream using SS and the SB. I have 3 questions.

1. Am I hearing the CD quality stream? Does this mean that wav bits are being sent to the SB and it is passing them to my receiver for decoding? (When I use the digital out)

2. Will unchecking the Windows Media (built in) box affect media streams in wma format? Will they not be decoded unless I change the setting back?

3. Can I access the stream through SN? (Is there an upper bitrate quality limit for SN?) I pasted the URL as a favorite in SN and nothing played...

Thanks.

dewinkle
2007-12-12, 12:35
Probably true, but did you get that uncompressed track to play? Until you compare lossless, it's supposition.

Actually when used purely as a transport, the SB3 has nothing to be ashamed of. Its jitter numbers are extremely low. And with a secure ripper and AccurateRip, we know for a fact that the bits coming out are identical to those off the CD. The humble SB3 has an advantage over a regular CD transport here - the ripping process can be done over and over again to ensure the bits are perfect, a transport has only one shot at it no matter how good it is.

I have actually done head-to-head on this and running the SB3 versus my CD transport into the same DAC. The transport edges the SB3 out in air, depth and weight. Not by much though, and given the cost of each, the SB3 is absolutely amazing. I used several cables for SPIDF, but the real advantage on my transport is by using the AES/EBU connection. That may have been a factor.

I can see my future system using a server transport feeding a high end DAC.

TCM
2008-04-24, 13:03
I just used this method to access the KEXP uncompressed stream using SS and the SB. I have 3 questions.

1. Am I hearing the CD quality stream? Does this mean that wav bits are being sent to the SB and it is passing them to my receiver for decoding? (When I use the digital out)

2. Will unchecking the Windows Media (built in) box affect media streams in wma format? Will they not be decoded unless I change the setting back?

3. Can I access the stream through SN? (Is there an upper bitrate quality limit for SN?) I pasted the URL as a favorite in SN and nothing played...

Thanks.

*BUMP* Sona's questions - I'm also interested.

bpa
2008-04-24, 13:39
I can't actually listen to the stream - so I will answer from knowledge of what should be happening.



1. Am I hearing the CD quality stream? Does this mean that wav bits are being sent to the SB and it is passing them to my receiver for decoding? (When I use the digital out)

If the stream is played OK on the receiver then the decoded stream will be WAV at the PC - generally SS will re-encode into Flac (which is lossless) and this bit stream will be played by the SB exactly as sent by broadcaster. IT is possible to force SS to send the stream was WAV or compressed as MP3 to the receiver.



2. Will unchecking the Windows Media (built in) box affect media streams in wma format? Will they not be decoded unless I change the setting back?

All WMA streams will be decoded but the decoding will be in the PC and not the SB. There is no loss of functionality just decoding is in the PC.



3. Can I access the stream through SN? (Is there an upper bitrate quality limit for SN?) I pasted the URL as a favorite in SN and nothing played...

SN does not do decoding - it sort of acts a "broker" connecting SBs to broadcasters. Once connected only streams that can be decoded by SB will play. Since SB doesn't support mms protocol the stream won't play. The issue is the transport protocol and not audio format.

TCM
2008-04-25, 01:53
Thanks bpa! :)

I haven't tried this yet, but hopefully it'll work for me.



If the stream is played OK on the receiver then the decoded stream will be WAV at the PC - generally SS will re-encode into Flac (which is lossless) and this bit stream will be played by the SB exactly as sent by broadcaster. IT is possible to force SS to send the stream was WAV or compressed as MP3 to the receiver.

That's great! Sending wav:s through my network won't be a problem, since I have a wired network at home. Wouldn't it be preferable then to skip the re-encoding process (into FLAC) just to spare my computer the extra work?

bpa
2008-04-25, 02:01
That's great! Sending wav:s through my network won't be a problem, since I have a wired network at home. Wouldn't it be preferable then to skip the re-encoding process (into FLAC) just to spare my computer the extra work?

Probably but depending on the network hardware may increase the I/O and interrupt processing which have a big effect in your systems. It is a tradeoff and it will depend on your system what is the best.

Also be careful of the settings to make sure not all formats (e.g mp3) are decoded into WAV which would in fact cause extra load.

Using WAV also decrease the number of secs playing time in the SB buffer so if your system or network gets loaded every so often and is just a little bit slow in delivering the data - you are more likely to get stuttering.