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plympton
2007-08-28, 10:03
OK, so I'm sure this HAS to have been hashed out somehwere, but I'll ask anyway.

I'm coming from using Rio Receivers - great boxes, bad software, dead development.

One thing that was REALLY nice was being able to walk up to them and turn down the volume. Nice. Easy. No, "Where is the remote, which button was it...".

So, WHY does the Squeezebox NOT have a volume knob again? (besides audiophile gripes, aesthetics, philosophical mantra, etc..) Oh, and the volume knob doubles as a scroll knob, too.

Has anyone ever made a keypad kinda thing? I'm seriously half temped to buy a crappy small universal remote and gluing it to the front panel some how! :-)

Also, is there any way to get dynanmic playlists on this? I'd like to save a list of 2 genres (alternative & folk), but am I correct in thinking that a random play off these lists would go like:
-Browse -> Genre -> Alternative (play) (playing random from Genre)

->back ->Folk -> Play (adding random from Genre to playlist?)

Go to Now Playing -> Right to save -> Save to favorites

Now that it's saved, wouldn't it be a static list?

Honestly, I'm picking this up for Pandora & a server that doesn't crash (Java....ugh). But it feels like I'm entering a world of lots-o-clicks!

-Dan

snarlydwarf
2007-08-28, 10:54
My TV has no buttons. (Well it has a power switch, but that is god-knows-where on the back...)

As for Dynamic Playlist, yes, look at Erland's collection of plugins.

Use Trackstat, SQLPlaylist and DynamicPlaylist and you should have what you want.

Ben Sandee
2007-08-28, 11:13
On 8/28/07, plympton <plympton.2w1cib1188320701 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
wrote:
>
> So, WHY does the Squeezebox NOT have a volume knob again? (besides
> audiophile gripes, aesthetics, philosophical mantra, etc..) Oh, and
> the volume knob doubles as a scroll knob, too.


The high-end Transporter does have buttons and a knob so I think their value
is recognized somewhere in the organization and its customers. There
haven't been significant new HW development since the Transporter was
released so maybe a future middle-range product will have something
similar. The development energy appears to be focused on SlimServer 7 and
the Jive/new remote work but who knows about those stealth projects....

Ben

Rick B.
2007-08-28, 11:16
Of course, many of us just leave the SB volume at 100 and use our receiver/amplifier to change volume...

pfarrell
2007-08-28, 12:15
plympton wrote:
> So, WHY does the Squeezebox NOT have a volume knob again? (besides
> audiophile gripes, aesthetics, philosophical mantra, etc..)

Plus, knobs and buttons add costs.
And can break. Cause service calls, etc.

I never, literally never, touch my SqueezeBoxes, and haven't touched my
Transporter in months. I use them every day.

I mostly use a laptop to control them, sometimes the remote.

I would never want them to have buttons or to have buttons raise the
price. YMMV

plympton
2007-08-28, 13:21
Of course, many of us just leave the SB volume at 100 and use our receiver/amplifier to change volume...

Well, I feared I was treading close to religion by asking the question. :-)

I'm off to find a small learning remote that I can hack into a box aimed at the IR receiver so that I can add my buttons. That and some velcro should do the trick. :-)

... any other options?

PS: For a networked player (that you can literally put anywhere), having buttons would really help. Who's going to grab the remote when the alarm rings?

-Dan
(I used to design consumer electronics, so I've got my own bag 'o biases :-))

pfarrell
2007-08-28, 13:29
plympton wrote:
> ... any other options?

It is likely that since Logitech makes very cool remotes, and since SD
announced Jive, which seems to be designed to allow very cool
integration of SlimServer controls with very cool remotes, that one
could speculate that RSN, LogiTech will announce SlimServer V7 with cool
remotes. Of course, like all smart companies, LogiTech doesn't
pre-announce products.

--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

mvalera
2007-08-28, 13:29
You want a remote for the Squeezebox... have you looked in the Jive Platform area?

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37856

aubuti
2007-08-28, 13:47
Well, I feared I was treading close to religion by asking the question. :-)
Not just religion, but tradition. Where is the volume control on CD players, tape decks, or turntables?

plympton
2007-08-28, 22:38
You want a remote for the Squeezebox... have you looked in the Jive Platform area?

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37856

Yeah, I JUST ordered a Nokia 770 to use as a remote - now I'm bummed. That looks COOL! That, and it's got a scroll wheel!! :-)

I'm assuming the beta testers were invited, and not self selected, too? :-)

-Dan

st2lemans
2007-08-28, 23:18
> Not just religion, but tradition. Where is the volume control on CD
> players, tape decks, or turntables?

My CD player and tape deck have volume controls.

Tom

moley6knipe
2007-08-29, 08:29
I never, literally never, touch my SqueezeBoxes, and haven't touched my
Transporter in months. I use them every day.

I mostly use a laptop to control them, sometimes the remote.

I would never want them to have buttons or to have buttons raise the price. YMMV

I like this thread. Let's just read Pat's post again, and cast our minds back 10 years when all this was pretty much in it's infancy. I think it's fantastic that we can have debates about adding physical controls to things when 10 years ago things like SlimServer, Squeezebox etc (to me at least) would sound like Star Trek style jibbering! No controls? Using your what-top to control your music? What is this eyetunes you talk about?

Funny how fast things progress. Old bloke-style moment over now.

aubuti
2007-08-29, 09:06
> Not just religion, but tradition. Where is the volume control on CD
> players, tape decks, or turntables?

My CD player and tape deck have volume controls.
Interesting. Do they control the line-outs? My CDP has a volume control, but that's only for the headphone jack.

How about your turntable? ;o)

ftlight
2007-08-29, 09:16
aubuti wrote:
> Tom;223567 Wrote:
>>> Not just religion, but tradition. Where is the volume control on CD
>>> players, tape decks, or turntables?
>> My CD player and tape deck have volume controls.
> Interesting. Do they control the line-outs? My CDP has a volume
> control, but that's only for the headphone jack.
>
> How about your turntable? ;o)

I have an Ion USB turntable for converting vinyl to digital, and yes, it
does have a volume control!

--
Bill Burns
Long Island NY USA
http://ftldesign.com

Sam Lowry
2007-08-29, 09:21
Interesting. Do they control the line-outs? My CDP has a volume control, but that's only for the headphone jack.

How about your turntable? ;o)

My turntable does have a volume control :)(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002ABOFS/102-9092571-1129700)

JJZolx
2007-08-29, 10:12
Putting buttons on a "slim" device like a Squeezebox isn't a small task. It involves a lot of firmware, software, testing, breaking, fixing, testing again.

If I could have two controls on a Squeezebox of the future it would be an analog volume pot, with old fashioned volume knob and a (real) on/off switch. Neither of which would involve any programming.

The only complexity I might add would be to make the analog volume remote controllable, perhaps by intercepting the standard remote control's volume up/down signals.

pfarrell
2007-08-29, 11:48
JJZolx wrote:
> Putting buttons on a "slim" device like a Squeezebox isn't a small task.
> It involves a lot of firmware, software, testing, breaking, fixing,
> testing again.

Yeah, at times I wish the name was still SlimDevices. The simple answer
to "why no buttons" is "because its a slim device"


--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

plympton
2007-08-29, 13:28
JJZolx wrote:
> Putting buttons on a "slim" device like a Squeezebox isn't a small task.
> It involves a lot of firmware, software, testing, breaking, fixing,
> testing again.

Yeah, at times I wish the name was still SlimDevices. The simple answer
to "why no buttons" is "because its a slim device"


Well, I hate to say this, but then they should have done what Tivo did - make the volume keys programmable (and the power key) so that it could control the receiver directly. Otherwise, by having the volume keys on there, they're saying that volume control is INTEGRAL to the design of the device, and important, therefore it should be a function of the device.

Take a gander at, "The Design of Everyday Things". The jist is that a device that outputs should have control of the output on the device, not (just) on an another device. Since there's no "stop" function (per-se) on the Squeezebox, it just makes sense to have Volume+/-/Mute/Off somewhere on the device.

Can't really have it both ways, unfortunately.

And yes, I could (and probably will, <sigh>) rejigger my stereo so that the receiver's volume knob is more accessible, but that's like plopping an ugly old couch in front of a Morris chair, and then showing off your new Morris chair & getting funny looks.

Anyway, my Altec Lansing InMotion InMini iPod speakers are a very similar design to the SqueezeBox, and there's an imperceptable volume slider on the top that really adds to the value of the design, IMNSHO. :-) And that was all of $10 on sale. I certainly don't think it raised the price of the unit much.

Ultimately, you should probably be able to dock the remote so that you have the choice of device controls -or- remote controls, but that's a design exercise for later....

-Dan

pfarrell
2007-08-29, 13:43
plympton wrote:
> Pat Farrell;223701 Wrote:
>> Yeah, at times I wish the name was still SlimDevices. The simple answer
>> to "why no buttons" is "because its a slim device"
>
> Well, I hate to say this, but then they should have done what Tivo did
> - make the volume keys programmable (and the power key) so that it
> could control the receiver directly.

The TiVo is not close to a slim device. It has a full blown Linux OS in
it. Different philosophy. Its got a hard disk and all sorts of stuff.

Not clearly better or worse, but not really comparable.

And sadly, Tivo is not a great example of success in mass market
consumer electronics. I've known folks who have loved them for seven or
eight years, but lots of folks were very slow to understand why
timeshifting is cool. As soon as Tivo got some traction, the cable
company set-top boxes swipped half or more of their market.

Today's news is quoting Vint Cerf that "TV is dead" and replaced by the
Internet. So it is likely that Tivo was a great idea that didn't work as
a business.


> Take a gander at, "The Design of Everyday Things". The jist is that a
> device that outputs should have control of the output on the device,
> not (just) on an another device. Since there's no "stop" function
> (per-se) on the Squeezebox, it just makes sense to have
> Volume+/-/Mute/Off somewhere on the device.

Perhaps, but again, I never touch mine. I've got three SqueezeBoxes and
a Transporter.


> Ultimately, you should probably be able to dock the remote so that you
> have the choice of device controls -or- remote controls, but that's a
> design exercise for later....

Ultimately, the SqueezeBox should be built into your Receiver or amp.
Like a CableCard or so.

And ultimately, I don't want to buy and rip CDs to put into a
SlimServer, I want to rent music that I like.

plympton
2007-08-29, 17:41
plympton wrote:

> Well, I hate to say this, but then they should have done what Tivo did
> - make the volume keys programmable (and the power key) so that it
> could control the receiver directly.

The TiVo is not close to a slim device. It has a full blown Linux OS in
it. Different philosophy. Its got a hard disk and all sorts of stuff.
...
Perhaps, but again, I never touch mine. I've got three SqueezeBoxes and
a Transporter.


I was just referring to the Tivo REMOTE - not the box (although they have no buttons, too). The REMOTE can be programmed to raise/lower the TV volume, mute, and power (tv & amp) - no need for IR blasters.

If the SD remote is so useful, and so audiphile friendly, they should have done the same thing - make it so that the cool remote does all the cool things *AND* I don't have to find the remote to crank up the tunes on my Denon/Sony/Whatever receiver.

Kinda conflicting story in that the only way to use the included remote for the stereophile device is to lossy-ly lower the volume using the DAC, no? (that's what I read it's doing) That, or use an IR blaster (kludge) or have 2 remotes around (dumb) or buy yet another remote (OK, you can argue Audiophiles will have a universal remote.. though the audiophiles I know hate all remotes & have tubes in the house, etc..)

(yes, I know they were a startup, and the SliMP3 used a Sony remote, etc... but this is today)

Ultimately, the SqueezeBox should be built into your Receiver or amp.


Agreed - that would be great!
-Dan

pfarrell
2007-08-29, 18:19
plympton wrote:
> I was just referring to the Tivo REMOTE - not the box (although they
> have no buttons, too). The REMOTE can be programmed to raise/lower the
> TV volume, mute, and power (tv & amp) - no need for IR blasters.

Oh, I missed that.
LogiTech groks remotes. Hang in there a bit, per the usual speculation


> If the SD remote is so useful, and so audiphile friendly, they should
> have done the same thing

I've never heard anyone talk about the SqueezeBox remote being very cool.

My audiophile amp, from Classe has three buttons. Up volume, down volume
and mute. Anything else and you have to walk across the room.


> Kinda conflicting story in that the only way to use the included remote
> for the stereophile device is to lossy-ly lower the volume using the
> DAC, no? (that's what I read it's doing)

I'm not following you here. Anything that lowers volume loses resolution
and hurts signal to noise ration.

Folks tend to run their SqueezeBoxes WFO into an audiophile amp, because
in theory the audiophile amp has cooler volume controls, say a stepped
atenuator with Vishay resistor networks. At least they seem cooler. Even
those mega dollar solutions reduce the signal to noise ratio.

Plus, the SqueezeBox doesn't claim to be an audiophile product, even
though Stereophile liked it. The Transporter is aimed at audiophiles.

plympton
2007-08-31, 10:23
I'm not following you here. Anything that lowers volume loses resolution
and hurts signal to noise ration.

Folks tend to run their SqueezeBoxes WFO into an audiophile amp, because
in theory the audiophile amp has cooler volume controls, say a stepped
atenuator with Vishay resistor networks. At least they seem cooler. Even
those mega dollar solutions reduce the signal to noise ratio.

Plus, the SqueezeBox doesn't claim to be an audiophile product,
Yeah, the harmony remotes have tempted me when I (briefly) had a LCD HDTV (hated it). When I get my Plasma, though.... !

I just thought all the talk of "Burr-Brown" this and the VFD that implied it was a "cut above" the regular consumer junk out there (it is).

I seem to have read a bunch of posts with people saying how versitile the SB remote is - holding this button = this.function, etc. I just lump the folks who like the Burr-Brown VFD (*) with those who like the remote - my bad!

-Dan

(* I know it's not the same thing! :-))