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kweller
2007-07-27, 00:35
(Long Message which I have been adding to over the last few days Alert!)

Hmmm, I upgraded to the latest release in the hope that the tracks being cut-off issue would be resolved but it seems to have brought its own set of issues.

Slimserver is running 24/7 on WinXP. I have three Squeezeboxes attached, one each of versions 1,2 & 3. The V2 & V3 are always synchronised and playing 'random songs. I listen to the V1 box when I'm exercising which is playing a shuffled playlist.

Squeezebox Display:
My two synchronised Squeeezeboxes are displaying the wrong track information. Well, to be more accurate, what's being displayed is the data for the next track. Even more bizarrely, it seems to update Last.Fm with the data for the next track before it has started.

I've just been watching it. A track has started, the Squeezebox is displaying the correct track information but the progress bar is full and the countdown timer is showing zero.

Partway through the track the display changed to the data for the next track. The progress bar is still full and the countdown timer shows zero. The Slimserver web page shows the correct track but the progress bar is already half complete as the track starts.

It's difficult to tell as there is always latency on Last.FM but I'm pretty sure the data for the next track was logged before it started.

[Slightly later] I sat watching the Slimserver web page and it changed the data display halfway through the track which was playing to the data for the next one; the current track continued to play until it completed.

Pressing the FF button on the remote seems to correct the display issue...until it drifts again.

I don't think this makes any difference as I'm seeing the issue on Moose and the Slimserver web page as well but I'm using the scrinfo screen saver.

The display on my unsynchronised V1 works as expected.

[Later still] I unsynchronised the 2 boxes for 12 hours or so and they each continued to play 'random songs'. Both displays were showing the correct data every time I checked. I resynchronised them and the display problem described above was back in a very few minutes.

Synchronised Play:
I haven't had any synchronisation issues since I stopped trying to do it over wireless and went fully wired but since upgrading it's lost synch several times between 2 Squeezeboxes including right now :(. When I was using wireless and had synchronisation issues it seemed to correct itself for a short while whenever it started a new track. That's not happening.

[Later] I upgraded to the nightly from 22nd July (6.5.4 - 12407 ) and that seems to have solved the synchronisation issue; the other issues remain.

Random Play:
Random play no longer seems to be so random. There are approximately 13.7k tracks in my library and the Squeezebox is always on random play. Prior to upgrading the maximum tracks per artist logged by Last.FM was around 36 with a tendency for the 'most played' artists to be those that I have the most tracks for; that's what I'd expect. Since the upgrade the number of tracks for my most popular artists for last week is much higher. ~70 and the distribution is not the same.

My perception is that if I told the previous version to play random songs when the database was only partly scanned the range
of tracks it would pick from would grow as tracks were scanned. My perception with the new version is that is not the case. I've got no evidence to back that up other than a lot of repetition until I tell it to play random songs again when the scan is complete at which point, presumably, it uses the full database; that is behaviour I did not observe with the previous version.

mecouc
2007-07-27, 02:27
I'd noticed that "now playing" often gives the wrong track. But I've got too tired of chasing Slimserver bugs, so it stays wrong.. doesn't impress visitors so much though!

kweller
2007-07-30, 02:31
[snip] Synchronised Play:
I haven't had any synchronisation issues since I stopped trying to do it over wireless and went fully wired but since upgrading it's lost synch several times between 2 Squeezeboxes including right now :(. When I was using wireless and had synchronisation issues it seemed to correct itself for a short while whenever it started a new track. That's not happening.

[Later] I upgraded to the nightly from 22nd July (6.5.4 - 12407 ) and that seems to have solved the synchronisation issue; the other issues remain. [snip]

I spoke too soon, The audio is out of sync this morning :(.

I'm not trying to do anything clever, why can't it just work?!

I suspect the correct course of action is to go back to 6.5.2.

Kevin

Spies
2007-08-01, 10:40
I opened up a new bug since I was not able to find one with this exact behavior at http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5210

kweller
2007-08-06, 04:29
I opened up a new bug since I was not able to find one with this exact behavior at http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5210

Thanks.

IME random play (it just isn't), audio synchronisation (it doesn't) and the Squeezebox display on web page, Moose and Squeezeboxes when looking at synchronised Squeezeboxes are all totally broken in the 6.5.3 release (I also tried the latest nightly).

I've now reverted to the nightly of 13th March 2007 in which all the above work correctly on my system and the only penalty appears to be track cut-off (which also didn't appear to be fully resolved in the later release).

Kevin

bpa
2007-08-06, 04:58
In Windows, most of the audio truncation which started in 6.5.1 up to 6.5.3 is caused by a problem in socketwrapper (bug 4544). If you just replace socketwrapper.exe with the new version below. It should help some of the truncation problems
http://svn.slimdevices.com/*checkout*/branches/6.5/server/Bin/MSWin32-x86-multi-thread/socketwrapper.exe?rev=12002

Ideally you should use a later version of socketwrapper as there were more bugs fixes but I think it is incompatible with the Mar 2007 slimserver.

Please give more details of your system (OS) and the type of files/streams (e.g. format, duration) you are playing and the problems you have (incl. player type details).

kweller
2007-08-06, 05:45
In Windows, most of the audio truncation which started in 6.5.1 up to 6.5.3 is caused by a problem in socketwrapper (bug 4544). If you just replace socketwrapper.exe with the new version below. It should help some of the truncation problems
http://svn.slimdevices.com/*checkout*/branches/6.5/server/Bin/MSWin32-x86-multi-thread/socketwrapper.exe?rev=12002

Ideally you should use a later version of socketwrapper as there were more bugs fixes but I think it is incompatible with the Mar 2007 slimserver.

Please give more details of your system (OS) and the type of files/streams (e.g. format, duration) you are playing and the problems you have (incl. player type details).

Thanks. I've just applied the Socketwraper.exe you pointed to so we'll see how that goes.

I assume you're reading this via the mailing list? When viewing this via the forum there's quite a long post just up there which gives nearly all of the detail you asked for. I'm somewhat loathe to repost it and clutter up everyone's mail boxes.

The one bit of information that is missing is that I play only MP3s which tend to be mostly high quality VBRs or 320bps CBRs with a very few at lower quality.

bpa
2007-08-06, 06:29
No I'm reading via web Forum but the fact that you update the top post means that many mailing-list user will not see the changes and so you will not get many responses/suggestions.

If you are playing MP3s then socketwrapper should not help truncation unless you are doing use bit rate limiting or for some reason the mp3 are being transcoded.

Does truncation happen with SB1 as well as SB2/3 ?

kweller
2007-08-06, 06:50
In article <bpa.2uwbvz1186407001@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com>, Bpa wrote:
> No I'm reading via Forum but the fact that you update the top post means
> that many mailing-list user will not see the changes and so you will not
> get many responses/suggestions.

All I've updated in the forum post are some typos which make no difference to the report other that it's marginally better English.

> Does truncation happen with SB1 as well as SB2/3 ?

Yes but truncation, a known problem with earlier releases AFAIK that appeared to be reported as fixed with 6.5.3, was the least of my woes with 6.5.3 and I'd sooner put up with the truncation than the plethora of issues I reported that the new release brought me (all of which disappeared as soon as I reverted to the older release).

Kevin

bpa
2007-08-06, 07:11
It is clear you have a number of issues but my preferences is to tackle each one in turn. I am most familiar with the truncation issue so I feel I can help most on this issue.

Your top post is a big vague of version you were/are using. The only version mentioned is a nightly 6.5.4. The initial post says you upgraded but it is not clear from what version your to what version.

Back to your issues AFAICT - your have 4 main issues.
1. Truncations
2. Random play not being random
3. Track info not correct with audio being played (I'd avoid using the word "sync" as that is the next problem)
4. Can't audio synchronise all your SBs.

My take on the problems
Truncation - if you are doing transcoding then 6.5.3 and later should fix the main probelm as it no longer uses socketwrapper which was used as a result of a change in 6.5.1.

Track info - I think I have seen something like this but only with short tracks. What duration are your tracks ?

Audio synchronisation - does the problem only happen when an SB1 is part of the group of players to be synced ?

Have you done any test on network throughput with Wireless since you had some problem which only occur when using Wireless ?

kweller
2007-08-06, 07:57
> Your top post is a big vague of version you were/are using.

The subject of the post is 6.5.3 woes and it is the released version I have upgraded to from my 13th March nightly. Following problems with e released version I tried a couple of 6.5.4 releases.

> Back to your issues AFAICT - your have 4 main issues.
> 1. Truncations
> 2. Random play not being random
> 3. Track info not correct with audio being played (I'd avoid
> using the word "sync" as that is the next problem)

They are inextricably linked. As my post says, testing has shown the display problem only occurs if the Squeezeboxes are synchronised.

> 4. Can't audio synchronise all your SBs.

Well, the system thinks they are synchronised but the audio is out of sync.

> Truncation - if you are doing transcoding then 6.5.3 and later
> should fix the main probelm as it no longer uses socketwrapper
> which was used as a result of a change in 6.5.1.

I'm not doing transcoding, I'm just playing straight MP3s.

> Track info - I think I have seen something like this but only
> with short tracks. What duration are your tracks ?

Anything from a couple of minutes to 20 minutes or so. It makes no difference to the display problem.

> Audio synchronisation - does the problem only happen when an
> SB1 is part of the group of players to be synced ?

I never synchronise my SB1, I'm synchronising an SB2 and 3.

> Have you done any test on network throughput with Wireless

As my first post says, I'm now using wired connections.

Kevin

bpa
2007-08-06, 14:32
I did a quick test of
* a Windows XP system
* Slimserver 6.5.3
* 2 SB3 wired

In this small test setup I only have a small database of 17 albums, 2 genres and 211 songs in MP3 format VBR ripped using lame 3.96.1 (I think). This is a "vanilla" setup with no additional plugins and only config change from install is the audio directory. Cache directory & database were deleted before test run. No other PC apps running and no additional security s/w.

I synced both SB3 together - songs played OK, no truncation and title appeared exactly when song started and played out OK.

I did the testing with Random and Random mix - showed 10 songs and when many of those songs had played, more songs were added - this was visible from Slimserver web interface.

Since it looks like the "vanilla" config has no problems, you need to try to identify what is different on your setup that could cause the problem such as
- Any special config server & player setting such as audio start time, cross fade
- Any plugins installled and active
- Any apps running on PC
- Any security s/w on PC

The ideal process would be to remove/disable one-by-one the "additions" and see when your system starts working properly. The alternative would be to try a few of the additions on my test system.

Another possibility would be to get a debug log with d_sync (and possibly d_sync_v) and d_source and compare against the log of my test system.

kweller
2007-08-09, 04:58
I did a quick test [snip]
The ideal process would be to remove/disable one-by-one the "additions" and see when your system starts working properly. The alternative would be to try a few of the additions on my test system. Thanks for trying this.

I don't use many plug-ins - Slimscrobbler, MusicInfoSCR, LazySearch...and I think that's about it apart from Moose. Given that and your experience that the vanilla version is fine I decided to approach this from a different direction. I un-installed Slimserver entirely then deleted the directory structure ensuring I got a completely clean start. I then installed the latest 6.5.4 nightly and, as you suggested, it has worked perfectly for a couple of hours or so.

I've just installed Slimscrobbler and will add the others one at a time to see if and when I get any of the issues I experienced before.

Thanks again.

Kevin

kweller
2007-08-11, 12:55
Squeezebox Display:
My two synchronised Squeeezeboxes are displaying the wrong track information. Well, to be more accurate, what's being displayed is the data for the next track. Even more bizarrely, it seems to update Last.Fm with the data for the next track before it has started.

I've just been watching it. A track has started, the Squeezebox is displaying the correct track information but the progress bar is full and the countdown timer is showing zero.

Partway through the track the display changed to the data for the next track. The progress bar is still full and the countdown timer shows zero. The Slimserver web page shows the correct track but the progress bar is already half complete as the track starts.

It's difficult to tell as there is always latency on Last.FM but I'm pretty sure the data for the next track was logged before it started.

[Slightly later] I sat watching the Slimserver web page and it changed the data display halfway through the track which was playing to the data for the next one; the current track continued to play until it completed.

Pressing the FF button on the remote seems to correct the display issue...until it drifts again.
Most of the issues seem to have disappeared with the deletion and re-installation of Slimserver but the one that remains is this display issue.

I have no understanding of why but what is causing it is remote control software. The display has worked as it should for a few days. I loaded Moose (I run this on a different machine to Slimserver), went out, came back and the display problem was back. I closed Moose, pressed the FF button to clear the display issue, went out again for a few hours and when I came back it was fine. I then loaded Slimremote and within a few minutes the display issue was back.

I then closed Slimremote, hit the FF button and left it and for the last few hours it has been fine.

Kevin

kweller
2007-08-12, 09:27
Most of the issues seem to have disappeared with the deletion and re-installation of Slimserver but the one that remains is this display issue.

I have no understanding of why but what is causing it is remote control software. The display has worked as it should for a few days. I loaded Moose (I run this on a different machine to Slimserver), went out, came back and the display problem was back. I closed Moose, pressed the FF button to clear the display issue, went out again for a few hours and when I came back it was fine. I then loaded Slimremote and within a few minutes the display issue was back.

I then closed Slimremote, hit the FF button and left it and for the last few hours it has been fine.

Kevin

...and as a final test I left the Slimserver web page running on the same remote PC and that had exactly the same effect - within a few hours the display was wrong.

[shrugs] I took a tangential approach to the problem and moved the Squeezebox to where I can see it from my desk and put the physical remote control on the desk. It's not as convenient but it works!

Kevin