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Furry
2007-06-06, 12:55
I've just received my new SB3, my 2nd:

1. Packaging has changed, now smaller box etc., and quite funky.
2. Logos are now Logitech (my first SB3 has SlimDevices logos).
3. Its an all black one, which looks nice.
4. Firmware version is 81.
5. Dodgy power connection.

I think 5. is something to do with the PCB connector, rather than an intermittent connection in the wall-wart's DC plug / cable. More investigation required (will try 1st SB3's PSU with it). Still, its OK if I don't touch it...

Dave.

Ian_F
2007-06-06, 14:20
Still, its OK if I don't touch it...

But better if you RMA it surely? Hopefully it's just a one-off and not a whole batch of 'em.

SuperQ
2007-06-06, 15:05
I've just received my new SB3, my 2nd:

1. Packaging has changed, now smaller box etc., and quite funky.
2. Logos are now Logitech (my first SB3 has SlimDevices logos).
3. Its an all black one, which looks nice.
4. Firmware version is 81.
5. Dodgy power connection.

I think 5. is something to do with the PCB connector, rather than an intermittent connection in the wall-wart's DC plug / cable. More investigation required (will try 1st SB3's PSU with it). Still, its OK if I don't touch it...

Dave.

Please post pictures :)

crooner
2007-06-06, 17:00
Yeah, some pics would be great!

seanadams
2007-06-06, 19:03
5. Dodgy power connection.

Can you explain this more? Is it the soldering of the connector to the PCB that is loose, or is it the mating of the plug into the socket? Is it a workmanship issue? Also where did you buy it?

robt
2007-06-07, 02:37
The "dodgy power connector" is interesting. I am in the UK and had an SB3 (Logitech branded) delivered on Monday. The unit was faulty - there was no splash screen on powering up. While investigating the problem I noticed that the red light behind the optical connector was on (so there was some power getting to the unit), but occasionally it was going off for a few seconds until I waggled the power connector a little. I got the impression that the power connector was a little cheap and flimsy.

I had a replacement SB3 delivered yesterday. This works fine, and I'm really pleased with it. I haven't looked at the red light to see if it's periodically going off, but I guess it isn't.

Rob

elziko
2007-06-07, 03:59
I had my Logitech SB3 delivered yesterday and I think I have the same power cord problem. I will investigate tonight to find out whether its the power supply or the main unit.

What's the best thing to do about returns that will leave me without my SB3 for the least amount of time? Can I do it direct with Slim Devices or should I do it though my supplier who was:

http://www.themp3company.co.uk/

Thanks

robt
2007-06-07, 05:25
Go through your supplier. ripcaster.co.uk were brilliant with me. I rang them up and described the problem, and they sent me a new one the same day.

Furry
2007-06-07, 10:28
Can you explain this more? Is it the soldering of the connector to the PCB that is loose, or is it the mating of the plug into the socket? Is it a workmanship issue? Also where did you buy it?

I just tried the wall-wart that came with my first 'Slim Devices' SB3, and it works fine - no intermittent connection. So no problem, then, with the new SB3's PCB / connector soldering etc.

On closer inspection, the wall-warts are different. Also, the coaxial power connector on the end of the DC power lead is different - I *think* the internal diameter of the 'tip' (hole) is a little different. It would seem that the plugs are supposed to be the same, but they're not, quite.

I have emailed the supplier asking for another ('old') PSU (i.e. one that 'fits') - I don't want to send back the whole lot because the SB itself is fine, and I can at least use it in the meantime with the 'new' (dodgy) PSU (if I don't knock it).

Dave.

Furry
2007-06-07, 11:05
Some pictures:

'Old' wall-wart is on the left, 'new' is on the right.

Confusingly, connector for 'new' is on left, for 'old' is on right, in 2nd and 3rd photos (d'oh).

Furry
2007-06-07, 11:06
A couple more, of the Logitech SB3:

seanadams
2007-06-07, 12:00
I have been testing a bunch of different Phihong supplies here. I am having difficulty reproducing the issue, but I don't know if the ones I have on hand are exactly representative of the ones you have. If I deliberately wiggle the plug around quite hard for a few _minutes_ I can sometimes make it reset, but it's not easy to do and I can't identify a particular way of manipulating the connection that causes it. I measured all of the diameters and everything is the same as the Unifive plug to the best I can measure. There is obviously a difference in the shape at the tip of the plug, and the phihong plug is longer, but it's not clear to me how this could affect connectivity. I also cut open a plug and the internal structure / soldering appears quite robust so I don't think it is due to flexing of the molded part of the plug.

I noticed that there is a clicking feel as the connector is pushed in the last millimeter or so. Try _not_ pushing the connector quite all the way - i.e. just before you feel that detent. Can you then still make it reset by wiggling it around? If anyone has a particularly flaky connector, we would like to replace it ASAP and get the old one back from you so that we can see what causes it. In the mean time we'll continue to investigate.

nicketynick
2007-06-07, 12:01
I hate to say it, but I don't like the look of that at all! I've had a search, but no luck yet - anybody remember the thread where somebody got rid of the logo altogether and painted the surface a smooth matte black?

peter
2007-06-07, 12:31
nicketynick wrote:
> I hate to say it, but I don't like the look of that at all! I've had a
> search, but no luck yet - anybody remember the thread where somebody
> got rid of the logo altogether and painted the surface a smooth matte
> black?
>

Well, I'm glad I got mine with the original SD logo.
It doesn't look very exclusive anymore, does it...?

I hope it's a coincidence that quality problems are popping up at the
same time of the rebranding.

Regards,
Peter

fredbloggs
2007-06-07, 13:08
Whilst I would rather have had one with the Slim Devices logo, I do hope that the quality hasn't gone downhill. One thing on Logitech's side is that you now get a two year warranty, I believe it used to be one.

Still enjoying it though

Kyle
2007-06-07, 13:08
anybody remember the thread where somebody got rid of the logo altogether and painted the surface a smooth matte black?

He actually had it anodized, not painted: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23149&highlight=anodized

Club1820
2007-06-07, 13:19
Im sorry to say - but IMHO that looks absolutely terrible with that logo on there! Really would hate to have that on the rack with all of my Rotel equipment. Glad my recent 2nd SB3 was from the old batch. :)

nicketynick
2007-06-07, 13:19
He actually had it anodized, not painted: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23149&highlight=anodized

Aah, that's the one! Thanks! I'm sure there will be more than one person wanting to do the same......

Mitch Harding
2007-06-07, 13:31
IMO, as long as it sounds good, it can say whatever it wants on the front..

On 6/7/07, nicketynick <
nicketynick.2rtqvb1181247601 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
>
> Kyle;207437 Wrote:
> > He actually had it anodized, not painted:
> > http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23149&highlight=anodized
>
> Aah, that's the one! Thanks! I'm sure there will be more than one
> person wanting to do the same......
>
>
> --
> nicketynick
>
> Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers
> WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router
> http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> nicketynick's Profile:
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35899
>
>

JJZolx
2007-06-07, 13:53
BTW, just what in the hell is that thing in the Logitech logo?

Ian_F
2007-06-07, 14:06
BTW, just what in the hell is that thing in the Logitech logo?

Looks like the sun and the moon? Albeit drawn by a young child ;)

Furry
2007-06-07, 14:08
If I deliberately wiggle the plug around quite hard for a few _minutes_ I can sometimes make it reset, but it's not easy to do and I can't identify a particular way of manipulating the connection that causes it.

On the one I've got, its not really difficult to cause power interruption / reset, by wiggling.


I measured all of the diameters and everything is the same as the Unifive plug to the best I can measure. There is obviously a difference in the shape at the tip of the plug, and the phihong plug is longer, but it's not clear to me how this could affect connectivity.

Did you measure the inner diameter of the centre hole? I suspect that even a small difference could cause this problem. I think that the plug I've got perhaps doesn't 'grip' as well, it feels slack, as if the centre conductor diameter is too great. Or maybe its the outer conductor... its very difficult to tell.


I noticed that there is a clicking feel as the connector is pushed in the last millimeter or so. Try _not_ pushing the connector quite all the way - i.e. just before you feel that detent.

Its difficult to tell whether there are one or two detent points, and whether or not power reliably connects at either, but I think most of the time no power connects at the first detent.

Actually, I'm a bit wary of repeatedly applying and removing the power, and causing intermittent full connection and disconnection and also bad (high resistance) connection (causes flickering display, noise in output etc.), because of possible damage to the SB.

Dave.

Furry
2007-06-07, 14:10
I do hope that the quality hasn't gone downhill.

To be fair, the SB itself seems fine - it seems its only the PSU that has a problem (or, more accurately, its plug).

Dave.

seanadams
2007-06-07, 14:36
Did you measure the inner diameter of the centre hole? I suspect that even a small difference could cause this problem.

The nominal inside diameter is 2.5mm. I didn't have any proper way to measure it so I used a 3/32 drill bit (2.38125 mm) to "feel" for a difference between the two connectors. It was hard to tell any difference but it felt like there might actually be more play with the Unifive one. The outside I measured with digital calipers and any difference was barely detectable - not more than a couple hundredths of a mm. This is the best I could do with what I have on hand - we'll find out more when our mechanical guys look at it. I don't know why it should be that sensitive - it is after all a pretty simple design that is used in zillions of products.

gdpeck
2007-06-07, 14:42
nicketynick wrote:[color=blue]
> <snip>
Well, I'm glad I got mine with the original SD logo.
It doesn't look very exclusive anymore, does it...?
<snip>

QFT

George

Ben Sandee
2007-06-07, 14:58
On 6/7/07, Peter <landen-slimp (AT) frg (DOT) eur.nl> wrote:
>
>
> Well, I'm glad I got mine with the original SD logo.
> It doesn't look very exclusive anymore, does it...?


It's never been exclusive, sorry to burst your bubble. Anyone with a couple
hundred dollars can buy one.

Ben

Mitch Harding
2007-06-07, 15:12
Has anyone done a double-blind test to determine the sonic impacts of the
new logo?

On 6/7/07, gdpeck <gdpeck.2rtusz1181252701 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
wrote:
>
>
> Peter;207425 Wrote:
> > nicketynick wrote:[color=darkred]
> > > <snip>
> > Well, I'm glad I got mine with the original SD logo.
> > It doesn't look very exclusive anymore, does it...?
> > <snip>
>
> QFT
>
> George
>
>
> --
> gdpeck
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> gdpeck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4686
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35899
>
>

tyler_durden
2007-06-07, 15:34
While you're measuring connectors, someone better measure the center pin in the SB. The problem might be with the connector in the unit, not the one on the end of the power cable.

TD

bonze
2007-06-07, 15:45
Has anyone done a double-blind test to determine the sonic impacts of the new logo?
Apparently it makes all your music sound like Dido

seanadams
2007-06-07, 16:05
While you're measuring connectors, someone better measure the center pin in the SB. The problem might be with the connector in the unit, not the one on the end of the power cable.

TD

Furry says it works OK with his old adaptor so I don't think that's the case. Anyway the SB3s connector has not changed, in fact the boards are still being made by the same company.

Incidentally, the reason for the change in power supplies is because the Phihong ones are already used by Logitech in other products, they have lower EMI, have interchangeable plugs, and have regulatory approvals for all the myriad of countries where Logitech sells.

DrNic
2007-06-07, 17:06
Looks like the sun and the moon? Albeit drawn by a young child ;)

I'm gutted that my Black SB3 will have this logo on - this is the first picture I have seen of its new branding.
Snobbery - maybe, but it just looks shite (plus all my others are originals!)
I would even have been happy with "Slim Devices" with "A Logitech Company" underneath like the logo on the homepage.
One thing though - there better not be any power supply issues... :)

Nic

PS: when is the website going to reflect the while brand change?

peejay
2007-06-07, 17:57
I'm gutted that my Black SB3 will have this logo on - this is the first picture I have seen of its new branding.
Snobbery - maybe, but it just looks shite (plus all my others are originals!)
I would even have been happy with "Slim Devices" with "A Logitech Company" underneath like the logo on the homepage.
One thing though - there better not be any power supply issues... :)

Nic

PS: when is the website going to reflect the while brand change?

Is it likely that ongoing upgrades to firmware will change the original splash-screen from Slimdevices to Logitech, or is that routine in hardware?

peterw
2007-06-07, 18:13
Is it likely that ongoing upgrades to firmware will change the original splash-screen from Slimdevices to Logitech, or is that routine in hardware?

That's a firmware feature, and the Logitech logo is already included in the firmware that ships with Slimserver 6.5.2.

tyler_durden
2007-06-07, 18:22
Furry says it works OK with his old adaptor so I don't think that's the case. Anyway the SB3s connector has not changed, in fact the boards are still being made by the same company.

It wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer started buying parts (the pins) from a different source or "updated" tooling only to discover the new parts don't match the old...

TD

peejay
2007-06-07, 19:19
That's a firmware feature, and the Logitech logo is already included in the firmware that ships with Slimserver 6.5.2.

I haven't re-booted the SB3 since the upgrade to Slimserver, or maybe it re-started itself and I wasn't watching. Sigh.

stormy
2007-06-08, 03:40
I've just received my new SB3, my 2nd:

1. Packaging has changed, now smaller box etc., and quite funky.
2. Logos are now Logitech (my first SB3 has SlimDevices logos).
3. Its an all black one, which looks nice.
4. Firmware version is 81.
5. Dodgy power connection.

I think 5. is something to do with the PCB connector, rather than an intermittent connection in the wall-wart's DC plug / cable. More investigation required (will try 1st SB3's PSU with it). Still, its OK if I don't touch it...


I got my Logitech SB3 yesterday and the power connection seems to be fine on mine. I am however having all sorts of problems keeping the music playing without some odd "connection reset by remote host" errors.

I am wondering if I should have not installed Slimserver 6.5.3 beta and just used the disk which came with the unit?

Mike

Gildahl
2007-06-08, 04:14
That new logo is awful. I don't know. I have Logitech logos on my Harmony remote and my computer keyboard/mouse and never thought twice about them, but this one for some reason really bugs me. The old logo seemed understated--like the logos on all my sound equipment; and this one seems in your face. I agree with someone else that was hoping for a "Slim Devices...a Logitech Company" or a smaller logo in the corner or something.

Craig, James \(IT\)
2007-06-08, 04:18
I have to say I actually think it looks OK in monochrome on the front of
the Squeezebox.
The colour version in the web interface is a bit horrible though.

James
--------------------------------------------------------

NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender. Sender does not intend to waive confidentiality or privilege. Use of this email is prohibited when received in error.

Skittler
2007-06-08, 04:19
I recently borrowed an older SB3 from someone (who'd not used it for a while) and after I installed 6.5.2 the splash screen changed to Logitech, so it seems to be a auto-firmware update that comes with the SlimServer software.

My new SB3 turned up earlier this week. I gave my mate his SB3 back and he phoned up last night saying "What the hell have you done to my SB3? It says Logitech on the splash screen!"

nicketynick
2007-06-08, 06:01
I am wondering if I should have not installed Slimserver 6.5.3 beta and just used the disk which came with the unit?

Mike

They're shipping with a CD now? !!

fredbloggs
2007-06-08, 06:07
Don't think I got a CD in mine, just downloaded

mherger
2007-06-08, 09:06
> That new logo is awful. I don't know. I have Logitech logos on my
> Harmony remote and my computer keyboard/mouse and never thought twice
> about them, but this one for some reason really bugs me.

I think I'm going to sell my "original" SB3s on ebay. After all I've read
here I guess you'll pay good money for it, won't you? :-)

Michael

Mitch Harding
2007-06-08, 09:16
Yeah, no kidding. :) Maybe I can sell my "classic" SBs and replace them
with new ones, with money to spare!

On 6/8/07, Michael Herger <slim (AT) herger (DOT) net> wrote:
>
> > That new logo is awful. I don't know. I have Logitech logos on my
> > Harmony remote and my computer keyboard/mouse and never thought twice
> > about them, but this one for some reason really bugs me.
>
> I think I'm going to sell my "original" SB3s on ebay. After all I've read
> here I guess you'll pay good money for it, won't you? :-)
>
> Michael
>
>

Nostromo
2007-06-08, 09:33
I rather like the Logitech logo, I just wish it was more subtle, like the Slim devices Squeezeboxes.

Nostromo
2007-06-08, 09:34
Yeah, no kidding. :) Maybe I can sell my "classic" SBs and replace them
with new ones, with money to spare!



Or get yourself a Transporter ;-)

blessingx
2007-06-08, 09:38
The logo is perfectly fine, and its better looking on an all black version than the silver/black and silver/white Squeezeboxes with the old 'logo' if you ask me. I just don't know if you need the logo to appear twice on power up.

peter
2007-06-08, 09:41
Ben Sandee wrote:
> On 6/7/07, *Peter* <landen-slimp (AT) frg (DOT) eur.nl
> <mailto:landen-slimp (AT) frg (DOT) eur.nl>> wrote:
>
>
> Well, I'm glad I got mine with the original SD logo.
> It doesn't look very exclusive anymore, does it...?
>
>
> It's never been exclusive, sorry to burst your bubble. Anyone with a
> couple hundred dollars can buy one.

Sorry to return the favour and burst your bubble, but exclusive was
never just a matter of dollars. You're probably American, right? ;)

Regards,
Peter

peter
2007-06-08, 09:44
DrNic wrote:
> Ian_F;207460 Wrote:
>
>> Looks like the sun and the moon? Albeit drawn by a young child ;)
>>
>
> I'm gutted that my Black SB3 will have this logo on - this is the first
> picture I have seen of its new branding.
> Snobbery - maybe, but it just looks shite (plus all my others are
> originals!)
> I would even have been happy with "Slim Devices" with "A Logitech
> Company" underneath like the logo on the homepage.
> One thing though - there better not be any power supply issues... :)
>

Or a new logitech sub-brand. "Logitech Audiophile Series", and drop the
sun & the moon...

This is definitely going to hurt sales. Who'd buy a Transporter for
$2000 with that logo?

Regards,
Peter

mherger
2007-06-08, 09:58
> This is definitely going to hurt sales. Who'd buy a Transporter for
> $2000 with that logo?

Has anybody ever seen a Transporter with a Logitech logo?

Michael

Mitch Harding
2007-06-08, 10:40
I would, if I had a spare $2k to spend. The logo change has had no impact
on my desire to own a Transporter.

On 6/8/07, Peter <landen-slimp (AT) frg (DOT) eur.nl> wrote:
>
> DrNic wrote:
> > Ian_F;207460 Wrote:
> >
> >> Looks like the sun and the moon? Albeit drawn by a young child ;)
> >>
> >
> > I'm gutted that my Black SB3 will have this logo on - this is the first
> > picture I have seen of its new branding.
> > Snobbery - maybe, but it just looks shite (plus all my others are
> > originals!)
> > I would even have been happy with "Slim Devices" with "A Logitech
> > Company" underneath like the logo on the homepage.
> > One thing though - there better not be any power supply issues... :)
> >
>
> Or a new logitech sub-brand. "Logitech Audiophile Series", and drop the
> sun & the moon...
>
> This is definitely going to hurt sales. Who'd buy a Transporter for
> $2000 with that logo?
>
> Regards,
> Peter
>
>

seanadams
2007-06-08, 11:12
> This is definitely going to hurt sales. Who'd buy a Transporter for
> $2000 with that logo?

Has anybody ever seen a Transporter with a Logitech logo?


The new Transporter front panels will just have a "transporter" logo. The manufacturer logo will be only on the belly label.

dem
2007-06-08, 11:33
That logo looks pretty bad. It looks like such a bright white in those photos. The old logo on the all-black was more of a gray/tan, wasn't it? (I have an original color model, not an all-black).

The lettering on other black audio equipment is usually off-white.

It would be nice if they let you leave out the "splat" part of the logo. Just use the standard company font, perhaps a little larger, and in a gray or tan.

jonheal
2007-06-08, 14:00
I'm gutted that my Black SB3 will have this logo on - this is the first picture I have seen of its new branding.
Snobbery - maybe, but it just looks shite (plus all my others are originals!)
I would even have been happy with "Slim Devices" with "A Logitech Company" underneath like the logo on the homepage.
One thing though - there better not be any power supply issues... :)

Nic

PS: when is the website going to reflect the while brand change?

Gutted! Wow! You take your branding seriously!

I happen to like Logitech's logo. Clearly, it was created by a designer, and with all due respect to Sean and Company, I suspect the Slim Devices logo was an in-house job. (Could be wrong, of course.) The Logitech logo, visually, is a nice blend of whimsy and “techy.” Proportionally, it's nice and "actively" balanced, with a center of attention at a good "thirds" point. I also like the way the logo is positioned on the aluminum bezel at a point that equates to the proportion of aluminum to plastic on the face of the unit as a whole.

I'm sure the "whiteness" of the logo in the photo is due to camera flash.

Good job, Sean and Company!!

bephillips
2007-06-08, 14:01
I agree that the new logitech logo on the SB3 is too in-your-face for something that sits in my living room. I much prefer the understated and classy slim devices logo on my black SB3 with brushed aluminum front.

Maybe this could be toned down some in future runs? Perhaps loose the logo, or a much smaller logo, the same size of and in line with logitech, maybe all of this a little smaller, or a lower contrast font color, or like mine shiny logo on brushed backround, probably look very classy in black.

jonheal
2007-06-08, 14:10
Such whining over branding I haven't heard since high school!

I mean who gives a sh1t what it sounds like, right?!? If it's got an ugly logo or if the ugly logo is 1mm too tall, toss the piece of crap!!!

Are you the same people that brutalized your fellow students if they weren't wearing the correct brand of jeans?

bephillips
2007-06-08, 14:38
I think it's valid to talk about the look of devices that are designed to be looked at. This is not something that sits under your desk. In my ideal future home theater setup, the only things that will be visible will be the big screen video display, the speakers, and the SB3. The rest of my home entertainment system will disappear.

Of course the most important things are how good it sounds and how well it works, but how it looks is important too. The SB3 is essentially the same thing as a SB2, but looks a lot nicer, and this is an important improvement for a piece of home entertainment equipment.

Skunk
2007-06-08, 14:59
Are you the same people that brutalized your fellow students if they weren't wearing the correct brand of jeans?

No, but that looks like someone wore their Fruit of The Loom t-shirt inside out, compared to the old logo which was practically invisible.

Though the brand doesn't necessarily matter to me, I usually try to avoid being a billboard.

Ian_F
2007-06-08, 15:00
I think it's valid to talk about the look of devices that are designed to be looked at. This is not something that sits under your desk. In my ideal future home theater setup, the only things that will be visible will be the big screen video display, the speakers, and the SB3. The rest of my home entertainment system will disappear.

Of course the most important things are how good it sounds and how well it works, but how it looks is important too. The SB3 is essentially the same thing as a SB2, but looks a lot nicer, and this is an important improvement for a piece of home entertainment equipment.

Logitech/slimdevices agree which is why they do versions in black/white/all black/all white etc. If they thought no one cared how it looked then they'd house the electronics in an old margarine tub and save a ton of money!

jonheal
2007-06-08, 15:13
No, but that looks like someone wore their Fruit of The Loom t-shirt inside out, compared to the old logo which was practically invisible.

Though the brand doesn't necessarily matter to me, I usually try to avoid being a billboard.

Design is important to me, too, and obviously, hugely subjective.

I think the placement and size of the Logitech logo is completely appropriate and readily comparable to a host of other electronics/audio products. Some that come to mind:

Apple (the mini)
Sonos
Mark Levison
MBL

From what I've seen, logos on audiophile equipment, in general, tend to be on the large size.

Frankly, I think most of the moaning amounts to residual sour grapes over the sale/acquisition.

dem
2007-06-08, 15:39
From what I've seen, logos on audiophile equipment, in general, tend to be on the large size.
But they tend not to look like bird droppings.

And the true audiophile product here, the Transporter, won't be getting the logo on the front at all.

funkincubator
2007-06-08, 15:51
But I am happy I snatched up 4 "classic" SB3s with the very appealing silver on silver logo just after the acquisition announcement, fearing such a rebranding. (I also feared a repricing given logitech's wirelessDJ was $250, I figured Logitech would bump the SB3 to $400 if for no other reason than to differentiate it from their other product.)

Happy as I am, I'd be just as happy to supply one of you with a classic model. Let the bidding begin! I have all the original packaging :)

JJZolx
2007-06-08, 15:57
But they tend not to look like bird droppings.

Ok, seriously... what is that thing? Fruit? Bird droppings? Sun & moon? I thought it was one amoeba devouring another.

dem
2007-06-08, 16:25
OK, maybe this is a little mean... :-)

jonheal
2007-06-08, 16:25
But they tend not to look like bird droppings.

And the true audiophile product here, the Transporter, won't be getting the logo on the front at all.

Don't buy one of these.

JJZolx
2007-06-08, 16:28
OK, maybe this is a little mean... :-)

Hey! I think I have a Logitech windshield.

JimC
2007-06-08, 17:35
> This is definitely going to hurt sales. Who'd buy a Transporter for
> $2000 with that logo?

Has anybody ever seen a Transporter with a Logitech logo?

Michael

There isn't one.

Nostromo
2007-06-08, 19:43
dem, don't know what you've been smoking, but I want some... It doesn't remotely look like bird droppings. Maybe the Logitech logo could function as a Rorschach inkblot test ;-)

Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I like the Logitech logo. Eh, it even rhymes :-)

peter
2007-06-09, 01:11
jonheal wrote:
> Such whining over a brand name I haven't heard since high school!
>
> I mean who gives a sh1t what it sounds like, right?!? If it's got an
> ugly logo or if the ugly logo is 1mm too tall, toss the piece of
> crap!!!
>
> Are you the same people that brutalized your fellow students if they
> weren't wearing the correct brand of jeans?
>

Of course we care what it sounds like and we care what it looks like.
Billions of dollars are spent on marketing and advertising to build up
brand names to communicate just the right type of lifestyle. This money
isn't wasted, these things matter to most people even if it is on a
subconscious level. In fact, people who are completely immune to this
kind of thing are probably psychologically abnormal, I'm thinking of
autism (but IANAP).

Thankfully most people who say they're not affected by marketing,
advertising and brands are just suffering from a lack of self
knowledge... :)

Regards,
Peter

peter
2007-06-09, 01:22
jonheal wrote:
> Skunk;207736 Wrote:
>
>> No, but that looks like someone wore their Fruit of The Loom t-shirt
>> inside out, compared to the old logo which was practically invisible.
>>
>> Though the brand doesn't necessarily matter to me, I usually try to
>> avoid being a billboard.
>>
>
> Design is important to me, too, and obviously, hugely subjective.
>
> I think the placement and size of the Logitech logo is completely
> appropriate and readily comparable to a host of other electronics/audio
> products. Some that come to mind:
>
> Apple (the mini)
>
Says: Hi end computer equipment for hip people.

> Sonos
>
Says: Hi end networked audio for non-geeks.

> Mark Levison
>
Says: Audiophile equipment that likes to identify itself with Lexus drivers

> MBL
>

Says: Exclusive hi-end German audio.

> From what I've seen, logos on audiophile equipment, in general, tend to
> be on the large size.
>
> Frankly, I think most of the moaning amounts to residual sour grapes
> over the sale/acquisition.
>

Slim Devices: Hi end audio for tech savvy people

Logitech: Affordable but good quality mice, webcams and keyboards

Which brand does not fit in in this list? It's a huge risk to rebrand
your product with a very well established name/logo like Logitech. I'll
bet the average Mark Levison buyer who paid not only for the sound but
also for the exclusive image would think twice about putting a Logitech
branded box on top of it (the logo is big).

The people at Logitech/Slim devices recognize this, that's why they
concealed the Logitech logo on the Transporter. IMHO they should do the
same with the Squeezebox or do something different with the logo. The
way Toyota created Lexus when they needed a hi-end brand, everybody
knows Lexus is Toyota, but that doesn't stop the trick from working...

Regards,
Peter

mherger
2007-06-09, 01:30
> There isn't one.

I know, but I didn't dare saying ;-)

BTW: logitech.ch doesn't feature the Transporter at all. Won't you sell it
over here?

Michael

DrNic
2007-06-09, 02:46
Gutted! Wow! You take your branding seriously!

I happen to like Logitech's logo. Clearly, it was created by a designer, and with all due respect to Sean and Company, I suspect the Slim Devices logo was an in-house job. (Could be wrong, of course.) The Logitech logo, visually, is a nice blend of whimsy and “techy.” Proportionally, it's nice and "actively" balanced, with a center of attention at a good "thirds" point. I also like the way the logo is positioned on the aluminum bezel at a point that equates to the proportion of aluminum to plastic on the face of the unit as a whole.

I'm sure the "whiteness" of the logo in the photo is due to camera flash.

Good job, Sean and Company!!

Hi

You obviously take your logo's very seriously. Its not that branding is paramount, when we all know full well that how the thing sounds is most important. I might reserve a little scepticism about the take-over until I can see that the long term road map hasn't been completely re-written by Logitech in favour of cheap, poor quality products with below par customer service.
There is a reason that the Transporter doesn't have the Logitech logo on the front, no one would seriously spend that amount of cash on a product with that branding so prominent - and there is no argument there I'm afraid. So why can't that transfer down the product line a little?
I'm not against Logitech staking claim to their new baby, but (as per my post) something a little less "in yer face"?

Regards,

Nic

Skunk
2007-06-09, 05:48
From what I've seen, logos on audiophile equipment, in general, tend to be on the large size.
Don't they glow as well, on the really good stuff? I suppose we have that to be thankful for, and the fact there is still no annoying blue LED.



Frankly, I think most of the moaning amounts to residual sour grapes over the sale/acquisition.

Like I said I couldn't care less who pockets my money at the end of the day. Is there really anyone here who thinks S.D. could have operated independently forever?

To me it is simply a matter of tact (not the brand). Stamping a plain white industrial sized logo on a nice black anodized aluminum cover _is_ rather like droppings on a freshly washed black Bentley. Preferring understatement in design, the first thing I'd do is color in the whiteness with black paint or ink.

OTOH, getting out the sharpie would be a lot easier than moaning on a forum- so point taken.

jonheal
2007-06-09, 05:52
Well, I think I will bow out of this debate as I realize there isn't much point in arguing over subjective issues.

jonheal
2007-06-09, 06:13
Okay, one more, and then this really is my last comment.

I guess my final advice would be, “Give the company a chance.” It was not a hostile takeover. Sean willingly sold the company for a sum of money that maybe he could have retired on. He probably could have just hit the road. Same with Dean and others.

But they didn't. They're both still there.

Now, if they had hit the road, it would have been easy to believe that they really never believed in their own products to begin with. They were simply building loyalty amongst a niche of gullible audiophiles, and then biding their time until they could cash out.

The fact that they are still there speaks of some commitment on their part to cultivate and maintain the products they created.

It seems to me a primary marketing tool for the Squeezebox has always been word of mouth. I've read many, many posts wherein people testify as to how they led their friends to buy SBs.

What are you going to tell your friends, now? "A couple of months ago, I would have recommended a Squeezebox to you, but now it has this really crappy logo on it, so I would steer clear."

Furthermore, is it the proclamation of the naysayers here that Logitech, the company, being constrained by its product line, has no business selling high-end audio gear? "What's this!?! This isn't a mouse! Get back in your workshop and make a MOUSE!!!" God forbid that any business entity (or human, for that matter) has the gall to think that they can produce something superior tomorrow, to what they produced today.

peter
2007-06-09, 08:37
jonheal wrote:
> Okay, one more, and then this -really- is my last comment.
>
> I guess my final advice would be, “Give the company a
> chance.” It was not a hostile takeover. Sean willingly sold the
> company for a sum of money that maybe he could have retired on. He
> probably could have just hit the road. Same with Dean and others.
>
> But they didn't. They're both still there.
>
> Now, if they had hit the road, it would have been easy to believe that
> they really never believed in their own products to begin with. They
> were simply building loyalty amongst a niche of gullible audiophiles,
> and then biding their time until they could cash out.
>
> The fact that they are still there speaks of some commitment on their
> part to cultivate and maintain the products they created.
>

For the record, I have no problem with SD being sold. Had it been my
company I would've done the same.
> It seems to me a primary marketing tool for the Squeezebox has always
> been word of mouth. I've read many, many posts wherein people testify
> as to how they led their friends to buy SBs.
>
> What are you going to tell your friends? "A couple of months ago, I
> would have recommended a Squeezebox to you, but now it has this really
> crappy logo on it, so I would steer clear."
>

No, but I had a hard time selling it to my friends already. They
probably considered it something geeky, and perhaps, the Logitech logo
will make it seem less geeky.

> Furthermore, is it the proclamation of the naysayers here that
> Logitech, the company, being constrained by its product line, has no
> business selling high-end audio gear? "What's this!?! This isn't a
> mouse! Get back in your workshop and make a MOUSE!!!" God forbid that
> any business entity (or human, for that matter) has the gall to think
> that they can produce something superior tomorrow, to what they
> produced today.
>

They can produce whatever they want, the question is if they can sell it
in the form and quality which it has today. The fact that the marketing
boys chose to 'hide' the logo on the Transporter shows that they see the
problem. They just don't seem to recognize it with the Squeezebox. Which
is a pity. I'm glad I got mine in time, because I personally would
prefer not to have an in-your-face Logitech logo on mine. Perhaps the
new model should come with detachable faceplates, silver & black with or
without logo...

Regards,
Peter

JimC
2007-06-09, 10:15
...Stamping a plain white industrial sized logo on a nice black anodized aluminum cover _is_ rather like droppings on a freshly washed black Bentley...

For the record, it is not white -- it is simply anodized aluminum. The Slim Devices version used a color film over the aluminum, while the Logitech version is anodized in black. The contrast is slightly higher on the Logitech version as the black is deeper and the surface is a bit more light reflective.

JimC
2007-06-09, 10:34
They can produce whatever they want, the question is if they can sell it in the form and quality which it has today...

The Logi-branded Squeezeboxes electronics are still being built at the sane factory as they were when it was Slim-branded. No changes to the quality at all.

As for Logitech selling the product, we're rolling the Squeezebox out to a number of new retail locations across Europe and the U.S. In the Nordics, we will be the featured music player at a new "Networked Living Room" section within a major electronics retailer; in the U.K., we will be featured in the "Digital Home" section in the largest UK electronics retailer.

Squeezebox and Transporter are available at Magnolia A/V stores, and were slated to be sold at Tweeter before they filed for Chp. 11. You'll see the product added to other major retailers as appropriate.

I don't think we'll have any trouble selling them, or keeping the quality standards just as high.



The fact that the marketing boys chose to 'hide' the logo on the Transporter shows that they see the problem. They just don't seem to recognize it with the Squeezebox.

Actually, the Logitech logo doesn't look right on the transporter from a balance perspective. If you use the stacked version, it is too small and if you use the linear version, it is unbalanced to the left.

Plus, the transporter logo just looks "right" on the front of the device -- better than the Slim Devices logo, in fact.

As far as recognizing the "problem" I'd have to disagree, and not because I'm a big fan of the Logitech logo. But I can absolutely tell you that we would not have the opportunity to place Squeezebox in so many new retailers without the Logitech logo, especially in Europe. There's a lot of power in the Logitech logo with a broader, more mainstream audience -- one who would have little to no chance of knowing the Slim brand.


Jim "marketing boy" Carlton

funkstar
2007-06-09, 10:56
in the U.K., we will be featured in the "Digital Home" section in the largest UK electronics retailer.
That'll be Currys.digital then, formally Dixons :)

Pale Blue Ego
2007-06-09, 11:14
Is there really anyone here who thinks S.D. could have operated independently forever?

Why not? They drove the leading edge of network players for several years, with steady (and sometimes rapid) improvements.

I bought my most recent (wired) SB3s for $200 each, and I assume Slim made a profit. Will Logitech ever sell a SB for $200? With their vast resources they should be able to - much more able to than SD - but will they? Remains to be seen.

Skunk
2007-06-09, 13:27
Why not? They drove the leading edge of network players for several years, with steady (and sometimes rapid) improvements.


I meant in retrospect it seems like an acquisition was inevitable, due to the buzz surrounding slim devices.

Thanks for the clarification JimC. Even if we are not always right, I think one secret to success for SD was (at least) listening to what (some of) the customers want.

Nostromo
2007-06-10, 10:51
The Logi-branded Squeezeboxes electronics are still being built at the sane factory as they were when it was Slim-branded. No changes to the quality at all.

Glad to hear that ;-)

signor_rossi
2007-06-10, 12:00
I received my SB on wednesday (bought through European Logitech online shop, sane shipping costs there at 5€ for UPS standard, ordered friday, unit was shipped on monday and arrived on wednesday) and am quite satisfied with it so far, unfortunately I also I have the Logitech logo which I dislike.
;) ;)
Seriously, I don't care much about the logo and only wanted to point out that on the shops' website it states that there is a three year limited warranty on the hardware, which is rather nice by Logitech, I think (an overall cost of the unit of 200€ would have been even nicer, lol).
And I am really surprised how good navigation with the remote works actually, didn't expect that since I previously had used Amarok to play my music with the interface routed over VNC to my Nokia700. Still miss Amarok plugins for lyrics and wikipedia, though. The web interface itself is a bit clumsy.

Bye, Val.

peter
2007-06-10, 23:30
signor_rossi wrote:
> I received my SB on wednesday (bought through European Logitech online
> shop, sane shipping costs there at 5€ for UPS standard, ordered friday,
> unit was shipped on monday and arrived on wednesday) and am quite
> satisfied with it so far, unfortunately I also I have the Logitech logo
> which I dislike.
> ;) ;)
> Seriously, I don't care much about the logo and only wanted to point
> out that on the shops' website it states that there is a three year
> limited warranty on the hardware, which is rather nice by Logitech, I
> think (an overall cost of the unit of 200€ would have been even nicer,
> lol).
>

A three years warranty is very nice, especially if it would apply to the
'classic' SD Squeezeboxes as well!

Regards,
Peter

AndyC_772
2007-06-11, 01:59
in the U.K., we will be featured in the "Digital Home" section in the largest UK electronics retailer.


Well, I wish you all the very best with that - but I'm pretty sure that was one of the main reasons TiVo failed so completely over here. Like the Squeezebox, it was one of those wonderful gadgets that has the potential to really transform how we experience home entertainment. I still have mine and love it - nothing else has come close.

BUT, it was sold through clueless retailers, who had no real idea what it was, or why it was better than a VHS recorder at half the price or less. In the store where I bought mine, the demo unit wasn't even switched on. And if the store staff don't understand it, their chances of explaining it to the even more clueless public are nil.

With that in mind, I think the Squeezebox will be a tough sell. It's many times more expensive than many CD players, and it needs a computer switched on all the time, and you have to rip all your CDs to a hard disc and organise them somehow, and set up a network... convincing the average joe that all that cost and effort is worthwhile certainly isn't a job for the non-tech-savvy. If my experiences this week trying to buy a new TV are anything to go by, that's what you're dealing with.

You know this already, of course - but please don't underestimate the magnitude of the challenge ahead. They won't just fly off the shelves like a cordless mouse... :(

funkstar
2007-06-11, 02:35
Well, I wish you all the very best with that - but I'm pretty sure that was one of the main reasons TiVo failed so completely over here. Like the Squeezebox, it was one of those wonderful gadgets that has the potential to really transform how we experience home entertainment. I still have mine and love it - nothing else has come close.
It didn't help that the Tivo in the UK was analogue only. This was at the time Freeview was kicking off and Sky+ was starting. So you had 5 channels and a lack of a decent EPG. I believe there was also a subscription element to it as well. Never going to fly in the UK, especially when Freeview PVRs started appearing and grabbing their EPG off the air.

AndyC_772
2007-06-11, 02:53
I disagree. TiVo can control Sky and Freeview boxes, and once they're set up, the user doesn't even have to worry about the medium over which any given channel is transmitted; they all appear in the same EPG and the unit selects between sources automatically.

Freeview wasn't really an issue at the time anyway - cable and satellite were the usual sources and it handles those just fine. In fact, TiVo's ability to integrate with external video sources was just one of the features that put it streets ahead of most other recorders at the time.

I guess that goes to confirm my point - great product, shame just how few potential customers realised quite what it could do.

oreillymj
2007-06-11, 03:31
I bought my most recent (wired) SB3s for $200 each, and I assume Slim made a profit. Will Logitech ever sell a SB for $200? With their vast resources they should be able to - much more able to than SD - but will they? Remains to be seen.


Somehow I can't see the logic here.

On one had the expect Logitech's size/buying power to bring down costs so cheaper unit's can be produced, while other people are moaning at a perceived fall in quality in the newer units.

I'm not saying low prices & high quality are mutually exclusive (e.g. Toyota) but one is normally a function of the other.

Ian_F
2007-06-11, 05:20
it was sold through clueless retailers, who had no real idea what it was, or why it was better than a VHS recorder at half the price or less. In the store where I bought mine, the demo unit wasn't even switched on. And if the store staff don't understand it, their chances of explaining it to the even more clueless public are nil.

With that in mind, I think the Squeezebox will be a tough sell. It's many times more expensive than many CD players, and it needs a computer switched on all the time, and you have to rip all your CDs to a hard disc and organise them somehow, and set up a network... convincing the average joe that all that cost and effort is worthwhile certainly isn't a job for the non-tech-savvy.

You've made a very good point there. Even if the salesperson DOES manage to convince the customer that streaming music via their home network is the way forward, then the next challenge is to convince them to spend £200 on a Squeezebox when they could buy two Philips Streamium SLA5520 Wireless Music Adapters and still have change. Furthermore Philips is already an established hi-fi* brand. “Logitech? Oh yeah. They make computer mice don’t they? What do they know about making hi-fi equipment? I'll take 2 Streamiums instead”.

*hi-fi = what the average person in the street calls their £100 stereo system.

CardinalFang
2007-06-11, 05:49
“Logitech? Oh yeah. They make computer mice don’t they? What do they know about making hi-fi equipment? I'll take 2 Streamiums instead”.

It won't help that the Sunday Times reviewed several players this weekend and declared the Sonos the best sounding, better than the SB3 according to their reviewer. The Streamium came last, but it is the cheapest by far. They also liked the AppleTV more than the Squeezebox

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/personal_tech/test_bench/article1903661.ece

killie99
2007-06-11, 06:19
If it's Currys that are selling the Squeezebox then I wouldn't be counting on big sales if I was Logitech (equivalent store in the US is probably BestBuy).
The people who work in these stores are technically incapable of selling a product like Sqeezebox - the staff struggle with fridges and tv's! I was looking to buy a tv a few weeks ago and thought I'd pop into one of their stores to see what the tv was like - the guy who attempted to help me had convinced himself that the tv didn't have freeview and that the only way I could get freeview on it was to hook up my laptop to it!

AndyC_772
2007-06-11, 06:49
Agreed. If it were me, I'd be talking to John Lewis (a chain of department stores that typically have good audio & video sections and, in my experience, intelligent and well trained staff), and hi-fi chains like Sevenoaks and Audio-T.

Pale Blue Ego
2007-06-11, 09:31
Somehow I can't see the logic here.

On one had the expect Logitech's size/buying power to bring down costs so cheaper unit's can be produced, while other people are moaning at a perceived fall in quality in the newer units.

I'm not saying low prices & high quality are mutually exclusive (e.g. Toyota) but one is normally a function of the other.

I'm certain a reduction in quality or reliability is not something anyone wants to see. I was only saying that Logitech *should* be able to make & sell the same hardware for a lower price.

Of course, we don't know if Logitech even wants to grow the low end of this market - the support hassles may make it unprofitable. Maybe they want to sell increasingly expensive SBs to existing customers. At this point, it's all speculation.

florca
2007-06-11, 12:02
<<Agreed. If it were me, I'd be talking to John Lewis>>

Actually they're already on sale in John Lewis - the store in Reading has had the all-black version on show for several months - whenever I go in there I turn it on and get something playing, as it doesn't seem to get much attention from the staff. However they reckon they've sold "loads". It's displayed in the computer part of the store (next to the Macs), well away from the audio stuff - maybe a good choice given the likely buyers?

The JL website also has them.

The guy in Reading Audio-T (where I bought my Aego Ms) was quite interested in what I thought, but seemed to have enough problems selling Sonos (or was it Roku?) systems and didn't seem to relish the after-sales challenges of sorting out Slimserver install quirks.

The other big spectre in using Currys / DSG for distribution is the fate of the Psion Wavefinder, which whatever its issues still has no direct equivalent - in my view DSG were completely unable to sell and support the thing. The only bright spot is that there should be some pretty tasty discounts if and when DSG end up clearing their stock (I did a very good deal on the remaining Wavefinders in my local Dixons when they reached end of line).

Whatever - I wish you luck. At the end of the day the only hope of volume sales in the UK is to distribute through DSG (and maybe Comet) and if you can pull off the trick of getting them to understand how to shift it without alienating all of the existing channels then you have a great future. If nothing else I can see a marginally profitable sideline in leaving my card at the local Currys offering to set systems up with 30 mins training for £50 a time...

stroom
2007-06-11, 12:46
A couple more, of the Logitech SB3:

Another picture of the Logitech Squeezebox, see Logitech site: looks a bit better than on the photos of Furry:

Furry
2007-06-11, 13:00
Another picture of the Logitech Squeezebox, see Logitech site: looks a bit better than on the photos of Furry:

Oh, cheers!

JimC
2007-06-11, 13:01
...wanted to point out that on the shops' website it states that there is a three year limited warranty on the hardware...

Actually, the warranty is 2 years. The text on the website was incorrect and we're in the process of correcting that. If you look at the limited warranty info in the manual, you'll find it correctly stated at 2 years.

Marc Sherman
2007-06-11, 13:55
JimC wrote:
>
> Actually, the warranty is 2 years. The text on the website was
> incorrect and we're in the process of correcting that. If you look at
> the limited warranty info in the manual, you'll find it correctly
> stated at 2 years.

When was that updated to 2 years (from the original 1 year)? I picked up
2 of the White Sale sb3s, but my friend who took delivery won't be
bringing them to me til Friday night. Do I have a 2 year warranty on
those boxes?

Thanks,
- Marc

nicketynick
2007-06-12, 12:16
<< If nothing else I can see a marginally profitable sideline in leaving my card at the local Currys offering to set systems up with 30 mins training for £50 a time...

Huh, I've had similar thoughts... my local big-box is BB, and all they know about is trying to sell cables.

7eva
2007-06-12, 13:05
The Logi-branded Squeezeboxes electronics are still being built at the sane factory as they were when it was Slim-branded. No changes to the quality at all...


As Logitech Director of Product Marketing we need to believe you , but the difference that I noticed on 2 boxes was not just a logo and different power supply.

On old one were wrote : Designed and manufactured in Mountain View , California , USA

On new one : Made in China

I just really hope that the internal parts is the same ...


BTW , I ordered mine SB3 via slim devices web site just a few weeks ago and it's came with slim devices logo on SB but with logitech remote control :)

Attached a few pictures :

seanadams
2007-06-12, 13:20
As Logitech Director of Product Marketing we need to believe you , but the difference that I noticed on 2 boxes was not just a logo and different power supply.

On old one were wrote : Designed and manufactured in Mountain View , California , USA

On new one : Made in China

I just really hope that the internal parts is the same ...

The PCB assemblies are built in China, and have been since SB2. Until recently we did Squeezebox mechanical assembly, test, and packaging in California. That is now done in China also, but the boards are still done by the same manufacturer.

Ian_F
2007-06-12, 13:27
As Logitech Director of Product Marketing we need to believe you , but the difference that I noticed on 2 boxes was not just a logo and different power supply.

On old one were wrote : Designed and manufactured in Mountain View , California , USA

On new one : Made in China

I just really hope that the internal parts is the same ...


BTW , I ordered mine SB3 via slim devices web site just a few weeks ago and it's came with slim devices logo on SB but with logitech remote control :)

Attached a few pictures :

Can you post equivalent pictures for the new logitech squeezebox please?

7eva
2007-06-12, 13:31
Thanks for reply seanadams , and thanks for been honest and straight in your answer .

I believe it's true and it's also acceptable . The concept was changed , and few things too . I"am happy to be the owner of one of the last Slim Devices SB before it's went to mass market .

I really in love with your creation . Thank you !

7eva
2007-06-12, 13:36
Can you post equivalent pictures for the new logitech squeezebox please?

I don't have it in my house but I"ll ask my friend to take a few pictures and will post it here. Of course If somebody will not place them before me :)

Ian_F
2007-06-12, 13:40
I don't have it in my house but I"ll ask my friend to take a few pictures and will post it here. Of course If somebody will not place them before me :)

Thanks, I was just curious to see whether they'd changed the "slim devices" stamped into the casing on the back of the unit to "logitech" or not

Nice photos by the way :)

JimC
2007-06-12, 13:52
As Logitech Director of Product Marketing we need to believe you , but the difference that I noticed on 2 boxes was not just a logo and different power supply.

On old one were wrote : Designed and manufactured in Mountain View , California , USA

On new one : Made in China

I just really hope that the internal parts is the same ...

While Squeezebox was *assembled* in Mt. View, the important parts (the electronics) were all manufactured in China and shipped here. We're now doing the full assembly in China, hence the "Made in China" designator for the Logitech version.

The Squeezebox PCB is still being stuffed at the exact same facility, using the same parts, as it was pre-acquisition.


-=> Jim

7eva
2007-06-12, 14:04
Thanks Jim !

JJZolx
2007-06-12, 14:59
While Squeezebox was *assembled* in Mt. View, the important parts (the electronics) were all manufactured in China and shipped here. We're now doing the full assembly in China, hence the "Made in China" designator for the Logitech version.

Interesting. If that's the case, I would have expected a fairly substantial price decrease. Assembly and testing costs must now be a small fraction of what they once were. I would guess that the housing components and the packaging were formerly produced in the US, so they should also be much less expensive.

Ron F.
2007-06-12, 16:41
Interesting. If that's the case, I would have expected a fairly substantial price decrease. Assembly and testing costs must now be a small fraction of what they once were. I would guess that the housing components and the packaging were formerly produced in the US, so they should also be much less expensive.

I personally, would not expect that. Why would costs go down fairly substantially? Ok - this subject hits me in a sore spot and puts me on edge.

Is your North Face jacket a knockoff? Just wondering.

Having had ten years of experience helping to manage a factory here in Silicon Valley which began as a startup in a garage, and dealing with occasional manufacturing done for my company overseas - I have pretty strong opinions about this sort of thing.

If you know what your are doing, it is not a given that it will be automatically cheaper to have someone else do it.

I suppose Logitech has a lot of experience with this sort of game, and has very solid and trustworthy relationships but otherwise issues such as QA, substitutions for cheaper parts and pocketing the difference, having overseas factories make knockoffs after completing valid orders, etc. can become quite serious.

I have had some interesting conversations with my counterparts at other companies, which indicate that the party is over. To be nasty: C-level people often want to contract out the hard work, and go play golf.

Manufacturing overseas can cost you money, it is not the panacea for cost-cutting the general public imagines it to always be.

-Ron

AndyC_772
2007-06-13, 02:26
Wasn't the Psion Wavefinder just a plug-in DAB radio for a PC? It always struck me as a pretty pointless little gadget, one which would never be able to overcome the fundamental problems that DAB coverage was poor (especially with a tiny little indoor aerial), and that even with a good signal its sound quality sucks. I doubt that DSG had much to do with its failure.

Ron: I hear what you're saying, but it's a point of view that I typically only hear from manufacturers, not one that I often hear from companies which do the product design.

My own experience with Chinese manufacturing has been very positive. Yes, they do try to substitute components, but I've always been given the opportunity to check specifications properly first and to approve or disallow them. Typically any changes are made for ease of availability, rather than a cynical attempt to shave off a few pence here and there, but as design engineer I can always insist that specific components are used in critical positions where they matter. It's certainly not something that the end user of the product should have to worry about.

It's not just labour costs that are much reduced, but component prices too - a Chinese factory making thousands upon thousands of products has much greater buying power than a small company making batches of a few hundred at a time, even on components that are unique to a low volume design.

Whilst I'd agree that cost savings aren't guaranteed, once a design is stable and there's reasonable volume, they can be very substantial indeed.

slimkid
2007-06-13, 08:52
You guys do realise that the price is driven by market primarily?
Price will be whatever the market is willing ot pay. If it happens to be below the production costs, company goes belly up. If, on the other side, you are willing to pay well above their cost, then they can go play golf. Why would you expect them to cut on their golfing and give you a break if you are already willingly paying more and have no complains?

MelonMonkey
2007-06-13, 09:26
Slimkid, price elasticity. There is a balance to be achieved between those willing and those not willing to pay. Striking that balance is the goal in the mass market.

nicketynick
2007-06-13, 09:37
You guys do realise that the price is driven by market primarily?


And volume expectations. If you only expect to sell a few, price is no concern - there will always be somebody willing to part with their money. Now, if you want mass-market volumes, well, then price is important.
My observation is that pretty much everything out there has a $100-200 base range for mass-market appeal, with a few premium options for higher-margin, lower volume sales.
Ever notice its almost impossible to buy last year's camera for $50? They all disappear, with the new crop always being in that $100-200 range.
If Logitech can get an SB product out there at $199 (with a profit), then look out! I seriously doubt it would be recognizable as the SB we know, but hopefully there will be higher-end options available.....

slimkid
2007-06-13, 09:45
For two prior posts: all that is market at works, one way or another. My point is, nobody would willingly give up the part of their profit if they don't have to.

MelonMonkey
2007-06-13, 10:02
If you think Logitech can't manufacture a Squeezebox (a new/updated design) and make a profit at $199 you're very mistaken.

The current design and component spec of the SB3 may not allow this type of price change, but an updated design could/would.

One need only look to Logitech's Harmony remote line to see this practice in play.

$199 is about at the top end for an impulse purchase. $299 is clearly outside that mental barrier.

I'd rather make $10 per unit (clear) and sell 20 million units than make $1500 per and sell ten thousand. Of course that's a wild example.

sixofone
2007-06-13, 15:58
I’m sufficiently irked to register and post to this form for the first (and probably last) time.

You see I was under the impression that the words “Designed and manufactured in Mountain View, California, USA” meant just that. Whereas it now appears that the principal component of both my S3s was actually manufactured in China. Am I alone in finding that a little…….well, disingenuous?

There’s no need for me to argue the economic and ethical rights and wrongs of such a production model in such well-educated company.

Nor do I need to point out that, for some of us, the considerations of how and at what (human) cost a product is produced are factors in the purchasing decision. The fact that Slim Devices chose to slap the “Designed and manufactured…” tag on in the first place shows just how well-attuned they were to such sensitivities.

Enjoy counting the cash, Slim/ Logitech people. Try not to think too hard about that new, faraway workforce. Or the old "manufacturing" staff a little nearer to home who had to be “let go”.

snarlydwarf
2007-06-13, 17:19
You see I was under the impression that the words “Designed and manufactured in Mountain View, California, USA” meant just that. Whereas it now appears that the principal component of both my S3s was actually manufactured in China. Am I alone in finding that a little…….well, disingenuous?


Years ago I worked for a computer manufacturer in Hayward.... and I got a call from some government purchaser. It seemed that they had special rules about buying US-Made computers, less paperwork or something.

She wanted to know if our systems were built in the US. I explained that the circuit boards were wave soldered a few blocks away, that the chips were inserted about 20' from where I was, etc.

She said "chips? Where are those from?"

When I said, "Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, just like every other computer maker..." I could hear the dissapointment... She wanted to believe that -everything- had to be from the US to qualify, and didn't seem to understand that (especially in the mid80's) that was impossible.

The reality is that in this day of surface-mount components, screwing things together and connecting a couple ribbon cables is the same as wave-soldering and IC-stuffing was 20 years ago.

pfarrell
2007-06-13, 17:32
Rapidly drifting way OT....


snarlydwarf wrote:
> rules about buying US-Made computers, less paperwork or something.
>
> When I said, "Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, just like every other
> computer maker..."

You bet. Try tracing the source components of anything. Where is the
engine for your (insert favorite brand car) really made? What about the
computers for the antilock brakes or cruise control?

Its a global world. I am just happy that the Engineering (hardware,
software, etc) can occasionally be done in the US. I've worked with
software developers in Japan, India, Russia, the Ukraine and Egypt.
Its how the world works these days.


--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

AndyC_772
2007-06-14, 02:15
I’m sufficiently irked to register and post to this form for the first (and probably last) time.

There really is no need to be irked (IMHO). What Slim Devices have done is absolutely the normal, accepted, legally correct way of labelling their product - namely, to identify the country in which the _last_ major manufacturing operation took place. They have to apply this label to comply with international import/export regulations, it's not necessarily anything to do with national pride.

The individual components (chips, display, metalwork, PCB etc) are made in factories all over the world, and that doesn't change depending on whether they're all finally screwed together in the USA, China or anywhere else. Stating ANY single country of origin for a complex electronic device is therefore a bit of a misnomer - they are all the result of a great deal of international co-operation. The fact that the parts are soldered to the PCB in China really is a very small part of the big picture.

sixofone
2007-06-14, 06:52
The labelling may well have complied with the strict letter of the law; however it would appear that the USA "manufacturing" operation amounted to no more than screwing circuit boards made in China into cases. In other words the product was, in dictionary terms, being assembled in the USA. This is a distinction that many manufacturers choose to make plain with the tag: "Assembled in......". The fact that Slim chose not to do likewise suggests an intent to obscure the true origins of the product.

killie99
2007-06-14, 07:28
The labelling may well have complied with the strict letter of the law; however it would appear that the USA "manufacturing" operation amounted to no more than screwing circuit boards made in China into cases. In other words the product was, in dictionary terms, being assembled in the USA. This is a distinction that many manufacturers choose to make plain with the tag: "Assembled in......". The fact that Slim chose not to do likewise suggests an intent to obscure the true origins of the product.

I have worked in the electronics industry in the UK for over 20 years and this is how you label products, you don't get a choice on how to do it as you have to comply with international regulations regarding import/export and it has absolutely nothing to do with SlimDevices (or any manufacturer) trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.

I think you're playing with semantics regarding whether something is "manufactured" or "assembled" and if you ask 100 people what they think that means you'll get a stack of different answers.

If the slimdevices label said "assembled" we'd still have people on here saying that it shouldn't say "assembled" it should say "9 screws, 2 cables and some snap plastics fitted together at 29 Somewhere Street, USville"

nicketynick
2007-06-14, 07:55
I’m sufficiently irked to register and post to this form for the first (and probably last) time.

You see I was under the impression that the words “Designed and manufactured in Mountain View, California, USA” meant just that. Whereas it now appears that the principal component of both my S3s was actually manufactured in China. Am I alone in finding that a little…….well, disingenuous?

There’s no need for me to argue the economic and ethical rights and wrongs of such a production model in such well-educated company.

Nor do I need to point out that, for some of us, the considerations of how and at what (human) cost a product is produced are factors in the purchasing decision. The fact that Slim Devices chose to slap the “Designed and manufactured…” tag on in the first place shows just how well-attuned they were to such sensitivities.

Enjoy counting the cash, Slim/ Logitech people. Try not to think too hard about that new, faraway workforce. Or the old "manufacturing" staff a little nearer to home who had to be “let go”.

I applaud your moral and ethical objections, particularly regarding 'that new, faraway workforce'. I'd wager you've seen "Manufactured Landscapes" - an absolutely mind-boggling documentary - its hard to believe how things are happening over there.
But I'm afraid in today's world, if you are going to attempt to express your view by only buying 'ethically', you aren't going to be able to buy anything at all! I hope you've got good soil where you are, because you're going to have to grow your own food......

AndyC_772
2007-06-14, 08:22
There's more to it than that, though - every modern electronic device is the result of a truly international effort, incorporating components and sub-assemblies made all over the world. "Made", "assembled"... it's all the same thing.

The Chinese "manufacturing" operation amounted to no more than sticking components made all over the world onto boards. Looking at the big picture, that particular part of the assembly process is no more or less significant than the wafer fabrication (think Taiwan, Philippines, Malaysia...), mining the raw materials or the final assembly and test, wherever that may have been.

To qualify as 'made' in the USA, would you expect that the aluminium ore had been mined there? Or that the plastics were derived from oil on US territory? How about the tin in the solder?

Is there really something so special about where the electronic parts were soldered to a PCB, as opposed to all the other manufacturing processes involved in making a complete electronic device? Why?

snarlydwarf
2007-06-14, 08:31
The labelling may well have complied with the strict letter of the law; however it would appear that the USA "manufacturing" operation amounted to no more than screwing circuit boards made in China into cases. In other words the product was, in dictionary terms, being assembled in the USA. This is a distinction that many manufacturers choose to make plain with the tag: "Assembled in......". The fact that Slim chose not to do likewise suggests an intent to obscure the true origins of the product.

The manufacturing that went on in Mountain View consisted of taking the smallest servicable components and connecting them.

Exactly akin to stuffing IC's 20 years ago. The change is really that electronics are no longer socketed at the IC level: the board level is the lowest part, since defective boards are not generally fixable.

Dell and Gateway computers are made in the USA... but do you think their boards are?

How is plugging in a hard drive (made in Thailand) to a motherboard (made in Taiwan) any different?

peterw
2007-06-14, 09:38
I have worked in the electronics industry in the UK for over 20 years and this is how you label products, you don't get a choice on how to do it as you have to comply with international regulations regarding import/export and it has absolutely nothing to do with SlimDevices (or any manufacturer) trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.

I think you're playing with semantics regarding whether something is "manufactured" or "assembled" and if you ask 100 people what they think that means you'll get a stack of different answers.

Here's the US Government's take on it (since we're talking about a US company having made claims of employing US labor):
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/madeusa.shtm
From what I see, sixofone's interpretation is correct (that document doesn't explicitly cover "manufactured in", but this investigation letter does: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/madeusa/letters/edcor.shtm). If the rest of you are right about part sourcing, very few companies producing sophisticated electronic gear in the US should be allowed to use labels claiming US "manufacture", and most couldn't even claim US "assembly" without a qualifying phrase like "of imported components."

Personally, I was glad to see the label tout some sort of US manufacturing, but I don't think I really expected that to mean more than some soldering and assembly in Mountain View.

Given the rules, does anyone else find it odd that the FTC hasn't had any enforcement actions in over five years? http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/usajump.shtm

-Peter

nicketynick
2007-06-14, 10:00
Wow, you get an A+ on your homework!
Somebody bring on the lawyers! (maybe we can get them all in one room and get rid of 'em!) But it does seem that the regulations as they are have been deemed obsolete, or at the very least, irrelevant. I do know from my own experience that "Made in the USA" is still important where Federal money is being spent (I forget the term they use in the RFPs....).

sixofone
2007-06-14, 10:51
I think you're playing with semantics regarding whether something is "manufactured" or "assembled" and if you ask 100 people what they think that means you'll get a stack of different answers.

Maybe so. I claim no expertise in anything quite as useful as electronics manufacturing or the law of product marking, sadly. As an English graduate I suppose semantics is more my turf and there's a clear distinction in my mind between "making" a thing and "assembling" it (OED: assemble - fit together the parts of).

I'd like to think I'm not excessively naïve about electronics manufacturing in the global economy: God knows I own enough "Made in China" Apple products. Nor, as a UK national, am I banging any patriotic drum. It's just that when researching the Squeezebox I'm sure I came across articles emphasising the in-house (USA-based) manufacturing operation. I suppose I equated that with a certain ethical standard and to my way of thinking that was part of the attraction in the product. I like the idea of buying stuff from smart guys trying to do things the right way on a small scale. That romantic idealism goes a long way in my mind to justifying a price premium (US equivalent circa $375 per SB, and yes I know some of that's UK VAT).

mvalera
2007-06-14, 10:52
Enjoy counting the cash, Slim/ Logitech people. Try not to think too hard about that new, faraway workforce. Or the old "manufacturing" staff a little nearer to home who had to be “let go”.

I just wanted to post a picture of our US production team. As you can see they are very much still here.

Also if there were to be any talk about letting them go, the unstable looking guy in the center holding the "box cutter" might have something to say about that.

Mike

JJZolx
2007-06-14, 11:09
I just wanted to post a picture of our US production team. As you can see they are very much still here.

Also if there were to be any talk about letting them go, the unstable looking guy in the center holding the "box cutter" might have something to say about that.

So, what do they 'produce' now that the Squeezebox is 100% manufactured, assembled, tested, and packaged in a Chinese sweatshop? :-)

peter
2007-06-14, 11:17
sixofone wrote:
> patriotic drum. It's just that when researching the Squeezebox I'm
> sure I came across articles emphasising the in-house (USA-based)
> manufacturing operation. I suppose I equated that with a certai


Are you sure these articles weren't about previous SliMP3/Squeezebox
models? I own a SliMP3 and I'm pretty sure it was made in Sean's garage
and soldered together by his family. ;) I don't know how manufacturing
evolved when production went through the SB 1, 2 and 3, but I do know
that the SD guys have never made a secret of the fact that the SB3 was
made in China and assembled in the US.

I personally don't care one way or the other. But then, I'm European and
my car is made out of honest-to-god German components only ;)

Regards,
Peter

peter
2007-06-14, 11:20
nicketynick wrote:
> sixofone;208750 Wrote:
>
>> I’m sufficiently irked to register and post to this form for the first
>> (and probably last) time.
>>
>> You see I was under the impression that the words “Designed and
>> manufactured in Mountain View, California, USA” meant just that.
>> Whereas it now appears that the principal component of both my S3s was
>> actually manufactured in China. Am I alone in finding that a
>> little…….well, disingenuous?
>>
>> There’s no need for me to argue the economic and ethical rights and
>> wrongs of such a production model in such well-educated company.
>>
>> Nor do I need to point out that, for some of us, the considerations of
>> how and at what (human) cost a product is produced are factors in the
>> purchasing decision. The fact that Slim Devices chose to slap the
>> “Designed and manufactured…” tag on in the first place shows just how
>> well-attuned they were to such sensitivities.
>>
>> Enjoy counting the cash, Slim/ Logitech people. Try not to think too
>> hard about that new, faraway workforce. Or the old "manufacturing"
>> staff a little nearer to home who had to be “let go”.
>>
>
> I applaud your moral and ethical objections, particularly regarding
> 'that new, faraway workforce'. I'd wager you've seen "Manufactured
> Landscapes" - an absolutely mind-boggling documentary - its hard to
> believe how things are happening over there.
>

You'd rather they didn't make any money at all if they can't do so
ethically? My grandmother worked when she was twelve to support her
family. I'm glad there wasn't some American know it all forbidding her
to do so. The hypocrisy of ethics. You're allowed to starve, but you
can't sell your kidney...

Regards,
Peter

seanadams
2007-06-14, 11:28
Come on guys, there is a limit to what you can explain on a little sticker. Maybe we should have said something to the effect of

"Designed in Mountain View, California, except for a few programmers overseas, and manufactured there too, except that by manufactured we mean assembled and tested using parts that came from many different countries. Oh and we don't mean "Made in USA" in the sense addressed by the FTC with respect to marketing claims made of products sold in the USA, we mean it was made there in the sense that it was the last major assembly operation, which is what foreign customs offices care about (we export roughly half of our volume). See, it's the culmination of an extremely complex global supply chain, so impossible to say completely where this thing was "made", but suffice to say we take pride in the fact that we do a whole lot more of our production in-house, in the USA, than most CE companies."

Also, we have not "let anyone go". As a matter of fact, our building in Mountain View has been designated as the first Logitech production facility in the USA, and a great deal of resources have been committed to scale it up for ongoing production of Transporter.

mvalera
2007-06-14, 11:31
So, what do they 'produce' now that the Squeezebox is 100% manufactured, assembled, tested, and packaged in a Chinese sweatshop? :-)

We still have Squeezebox parts left to put together, and the Transporter will continue to be built here in the US. There are no plans to move Transporter production to China.

Hey, before this China sweatshop stuff gets out of hand... Logitech's facility in China is brand new, state of the art, and actually nicer than the building I'm sitting in in Cali. A sweatshop it is definitely not.

Mike

pfarrell
2007-06-14, 11:36
seanadams wrote:
> Come on guys, there is a limit to what you can explain on a little
> sticker.

No, rather we should declare this thread off topic, boring, etc.
and move on.

its plonk time for the thread.

--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

killie99
2007-06-15, 00:33
hear hear!

I'm the chairperson of the employee reps where I work and this thread reminds me of discussions we have when there is nothing of any importance to discuss .......

jeffmeh
2007-06-15, 05:07
nicketynick wrote:
> sixofone;208750 Wrote:
>
>> I’m sufficiently irked to register and post to this form for the first
>> (and probably last) time.
>>
>> You see I was under the impression that the words “Designed and
>> manufactured in Mountain View, California, USA” meant just that.
>> Whereas it now appears that the principal component of both my S3s was
>> actually manufactured in China. Am I alone in finding that a
>> little…….well, disingenuous?
>>
>> There’s no need for me to argue the economic and ethical rights and
>> wrongs of such a production model in such well-educated company.
>>
>> Nor do I need to point out that, for some of us, the considerations of
>> how and at what (human) cost a product is produced are factors in the
>> purchasing decision. The fact that Slim Devices chose to slap the
>> “Designed and manufactured…” tag on in the first place shows just how
>> well-attuned they were to such sensitivities.
>>
>> Enjoy counting the cash, Slim/ Logitech people. Try not to think too
>> hard about that new, faraway workforce. Or the old "manufacturing"
>> staff a little nearer to home who had to be “let go”.
>>
>
> I applaud your moral and ethical objections, particularly regarding
> 'that new, faraway workforce'. I'd wager you've seen "Manufactured
> Landscapes" - an absolutely mind-boggling documentary - its hard to
> believe how things are happening over there.
>

You'd rather they didn't make any money at all if they can't do so
ethically? My grandmother worked when she was twelve to support her
family. I'm glad there wasn't some American know it all forbidding her
to do so. The hypocrisy of ethics. You're allowed to starve, but you
can't sell your kidney...

Regards,
Peter

You beat me to it on this one. If a company chooses to send its manufacturing overseas and the quality suffers, that is a poor business decision. If the quality stays acceptable, and the costs are reduced, then it is a good business decision. The company will either see increased margins or they will be able to reduce prices to better consumers and improve their competitive position. Lower consumer prices benefit all consumers, and the macroeconomics generally indicate that that outweighs the losses of the displaced workers (of course, that's little consolation to someone who cannot find employment). The overseas employees obviously benefit. Higher profits benefit the stockholders, whose primary reason for investing their capital is to get a return.

The suggestion that a person in country A is more deserving of a job than another in country B is not only ignorant of economics, but is also ethically bankrupt.

mvalera
2007-06-15, 10:36
Hey guys,

I think we've beat this "Made in the USA" related side action to death...

Please let's move the posts back on topic.

Thanks,

Mike

sixofone
2007-06-15, 10:38
The company will either see increased margins or they will be able to reduce prices to better consumers and improve their competitive position. Lower consumer prices benefit all consumers, and the macroeconomics generally indicate that that outweighs the losses of the displaced workers (of course, that's little consolation to someone who cannot find employment). The overseas employees obviously benefit. Higher profits benefit the stockholders, whose primary reason for investing their capital is to get a return.

The suggestion that a person in country A is more deserving of a job than another in country B is not only ignorant of economics, but is also ethically bankrupt.

Get real. The motive for offshoring production to “low cost” countries – i.e. China - is to increase profit. The myth of the virtuous circle you describe is exploded by even the most superficial research. For example, take this article (in which our Logitech friends rate a mention): http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/3054.html

A 1000% plus mark-up per Chinese-made computer mouse?

15-hour working days to earn less, per month, than an equivalent US worker would earn in two hours?

A 20% incidence of industrial disease/ injury, with no sickness benefits and no viable rights of redress?

Chinese factory workers aren’t being uplifted economically, or in any other sense. They’re being exploited more rapaciously than has ever been tolerated at any time in any Western society.

And I’m afraid the idea that it’s a choice between factory work producing goods for the West and no job at all is simply a false dilemma. Again, just five minutes of Googling will afford some insight into the complexities of the Chinese labour market and the immense social and human cost of the current enforced migration of workers from farm to factory. Try this for starters: http://news.amnesty.org/index/ENGASA170092007

nicketynick
2007-06-15, 11:02
Hey guys,

I think we've beat this "Made in the USA" related side action to death...

Please let's move the posts back on topic.

Thanks,

Mike

Nice try, Mike, just not quick enough! We're definitely off into ideological territory now! Nobody is 'wrong', but in our imperfect world, who is to say what the best way to fix things is..... tread lightly, leave the stick at home, I think, to mangle a phrase!

peter
2007-06-15, 11:07
sixofone wrote:
> Chinese factory workers aren’t being uplifted economically, or in any
> other sense. They’re being exploited more rapaciously than has ever
> been tolerated at any time in any Western society.
>


Look into your history books. My forefathers were owned by their
landlord. Literally. These Chinese are way better off than there parents
under Mao during the 'Great Leap Forward'. I've been in China several
times and it's a lot better than in some other places. The situation has
improved greatly since their economy opened up.

I guess this proves even anti-globalists need music players ;)

Regards,
Peter

Ian_F
2007-06-15, 11:23
Hey guys,

I think we've beat this "Made in the USA" related side action to death...

Please let's move the posts back on topic.

Thanks,

Mike


Good idea. I've been meaning to ask this for a while now but didn't want to kill an interesting discussion :) What was the outcome of Furry's wobbly power supply connector?

Furry
2007-06-15, 11:24
Good idea. I've been meaning to ask this for a while now but didn't want to kill an interesting discussion :) What was the outcome of Furry's wobbly power supply connector?

Yes, I've been meaning and wondering the same things myself!

Dave.

seanadams
2007-06-15, 11:31
What was the outcome of Furry's wobbly power supply connector?

We take this sort of report very seriously, and we looked into it and pulled a bunch of units from inventory and could not find a problem. Furry would need to send his in for replacement in order for us to see what's going on with it.

DrNic
2007-06-15, 15:45
Hi
Back on track!
I recieved my Logitech SB3 the other day - and besides staring at the front panel for a bit, went straight to the power supply and socket issue.
Mine does not wobble - but I haven't actually powered it up to see if it makes a good connection. However there is a very real difference between the old power plug and the new.
The new one has a ridge on the end of the metal sleeve to enable it to lock into the socket (I presume) the old did not have this (well not on my other 2 Slimdevices SB3's anyway!). I have found this makes inserting and removing the plug more of a brute force job than before and wonder whether furry's initial insert may have been slightly off centre and pushed "out-of-kilter"??

Nic

morberg
2007-06-16, 01:52
Jim "marketing boy" Carlton
I don't frequent the forum, but check in from time to time. This post and the one with the picture of the assembly team in the US made my day. Also Sean's sincere wish to find and fix the connector problem warms my heart.

All companies should be like this but not many are. I'm glad that you guys have a sense of humour and can rise above normal corporate BS answers/discussions even after the acquisition.

Here's hoping that Logitech soon comes out with a new SB remote with a display so I can justify throwing more money at you - the Jive stuff looks promising.

Furry
2007-06-16, 02:38
We take this sort of report very seriously, and we looked into it and pulled a bunch of units from inventory and could not find a problem. Furry would need to send his in for replacement in order for us to see what's going on with it.

Sean, thanks for your efforts. Maybe I just got the 1-in-a-100 bad one. Or maybe its just normal variation on that particular plug and that particular socket combining unfavourably; as I said earlier, its fine with my the psu from my first SB3.

What I haven't tried yet, though, is plugging the 2nd psu into my 1st SB3...

As I also said earlier, its OK while I leave it alone and don't touch it so I suppose I can put up with it. Also, I'd want to obtain another psu before sending the 'wobbly' one in, otherwise I'd have a dead SB3.

I did send an email to the supplier of the SB3 explaining the situation and asking if they'd send me another psu, but I got no reply.

Dave.

MelonMonkey
2007-06-16, 08:27
I hope I'm echoing the sentiments of the Slim community at large here when I say PLEASE don't send the power supply back to your point of purchase/supplier.

Make sure Sean&Co get it directly at Slim so that they can find out exactly why the problem happened and hopefully prevent it from happening again to someone else.

JimC
2007-06-16, 10:17
Sean, thanks for your efforts. Maybe I just got the 1-in-a-100 bad one. Or maybe its just normal variation on that particular plug and that particular socket combining unfavourably; as I said earlier, its fine with my the psu from my first SB3.

What I haven't tried yet, though, is plugging the 2nd psu into my 1st SB3...

As I also said earlier, its OK while I leave it alone and don't touch it so I suppose I can put up with it. Also, I'd want to obtain another psu before sending the 'wobbly' one in, otherwise I'd have a dead SB3.

I did send an email to the supplier of the SB3 explaining the situation and asking if they'd send me another psu, but I got no reply.

Dave.

It would probably be better if you sent in both the SB3 and the PSU -- in other words, the whole product. Please send me a private message with your shipping details and I will contact our EMEA team and have them send you a replacement product. Send your old one back to us here in the U.S. for Sean to take a look at.

I'm of the mind that you may have gotten a unit where the PSU plug's inside diameter was at the high end of tolerance and the pin's outside diamater was at the low end of tolerance -- in other words, one of the worst corner cases.


-=> Jim

peter
2007-06-16, 13:48
MelonMonkey wrote:
> I hope I'm echoing the sentiments of the Slim community at large here
> when I say PLEASE don't send the power supply back to your point of
> purchase/supplier.
>
> Make sure Sean&Co get it directly at Slim so that they can find out
> exactly why the problem happened and hopefully prevent it from
> happening again to someone else.
>

Nice idea. But one of my SB3's failed about a year ago, the one that was
on the AmpSwitch plugin. The plugin writer contacted SD with the serial
number to see what the SB3 died from, to find out if the plugin
(+circuitry) could be to blame. He hasn't heard back from them, which is
a pity, because if it was caused by AmpSwitch it would be really nice to
know to hopefully prevent it from happening again to someone else...

Regards,
Peter

seanadams
2007-06-16, 18:53
Nice idea. But one of my SB3's failed about a year ago, the one that was on the AmpSwitch plugin. The plugin writer contacted SD with the serial number to see what the SB3 died from, to find out if the plugin (+circuitry) could be to blame. He hasn't heard back from them, which is a pity, because if it was caused by AmpSwitch it would be really nice to know to hopefully prevent it from happening again to someone else...

We don't do a detailed post-mortem on every unit that comes in for repair - that can often take an engineer the better part of a day. Did we agree to do that before you sent it in or something?

Anyway, if you are talking about this circuit: http://www.gwendesign.com/slimserver/dev_hard_and_software.htm#ampswitch
There is no way that would fry a SB3 if it were wired up correctly. Unless you sent line voltage AC into it, the failure was unrelated.

peter
2007-06-17, 01:37
seanadams wrote:
> Peter;209334 Wrote:
>
>> Nice idea. But one of my SB3's failed about a year ago, the one that was
>> on the AmpSwitch plugin. The plugin writer contacted SD with the serial
>> number to see what the SB3 died from, to find out if the plugin
>> (+circuitry) could be to blame. He hasn't heard back from them, which
>> is a pity, because if it was caused by AmpSwitch it would be really
>> nice to know to hopefully prevent it from happening again to someone
>> else...
>>
>
> We don't do a detailed post-mortem on every unit that comes in for
> repair - that can often take an engineer the better part of a day. Did
> we agree to do that before you sent it in or something?
>

The plugin author contacted SD and sent the MAC address
(00:04:20:06:4d:a9). The SD people replied that they also needed the
name of the dealer who shipped it back (macintoys.nl) and that's the
last I heard of it.

> Anyway, if you are talking about this circuit:
> http://www.gwendesign.com/slimserver/dev_hard_and_software.htm#ampswitch
>
> There is no way that would fry a SB3 if it were wired up correctly.
> Unless you sent line voltage AC into it, the failure was unrelated.
>

That's the circuit. I'm not a great solderer, but I don't think I was
stupid enough to let the AC voltage near the SB. Anyway the setup has
been working for a year with a different SB3 without any problems so
it's probably OK. It would've been nice to have heard that the problem
was unrelated to AmpSwitch for me, the author and any other AmpSwitch users.

Regards,
Peter

olle.norell
2007-07-11, 04:31
Hi!

Does anyone know if there is any change in the hardware of the squeezebox 3 since they got logitech-branded?

I hope the logitech-branded one sound as good as the original slim devices did... :)

tyler_durden
2007-07-11, 06:34
I'm sure that even if there have been no changes, someone, somewhere will claim they hear a difference and it will create a special, high priced market for original Slimdevices units on ebay.

Aren't there any more important things to worry about in the world?

TD

funkstar
2007-07-11, 11:02
Does anyone know if there is any change in the hardware of the squeezebox 3 since they got logitech-branded?
I'm pretty sure SeanAdams has said there are no differnces in the SB3 other than a change of face plate. They are also still made in the same factory as before.

olle.norell
2007-07-11, 13:35
okay! Thanks!

audiogene
2007-07-11, 14:49
I admit I did not read the whole thread but I stumbled across the pictures of the new Squeezebox with the Logitech branding, arghh...

I was just about to order two more devices, but for the time being I will retreat from filling in the online forms and ask you folks at slimdevices if you can deliver devices with the "generic" branding/logo?? I am sorry, but the Logitech logo looks cheap and awful and I will refuse to put it side by side with my 2000$ DENON amp. Even if I own a logitech wireless keyboard and mouse I cannot complain about I really hate the splattered-crap icon on the SB3 !!! Or, maybe someone really knows what it's real meaning is??

Best,
/audiogene

egd
2007-07-11, 15:13
I understand that the Squeezebox is (and will remain) Logitech branded and the Transporter will remain Slimdevices branded, reason being their target markets are different and Logitech is not known as an audio co. whereas Slimdevices has an established, credible brand in the audio market.

tomjtx
2007-07-11, 15:56
The slim branded SB does sound better due to the shape of the logo which is better at rejecting rfi, emi and bsi.

BTW, I have a slim branded SB3 which I'll sell for only 1,000.

snarlydwarf
2007-07-11, 16:07
The slim branded SB does sound better due to the shape of the logo which is better at rejecting rfi, emi and bsi.

BTW, I have a slim branded SB3 which I'll sell for only 1,000.

Don't forget that the high density corrugated shipping module now has the Logitech logo on it. I've read that the new ink used in this process traps electrons (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=213845&postcount=158)
instead of letting them jar loose during shipping, which means it will take a longer burn-in time.

If you have the original box, I am sure that Slim-labelled SB is worth $2k easy.

Schindler
2007-07-11, 23:47
I recieved two black units SB3 and they are made in China... Package is cool btw also the Logitech Logo looks nice..

Christian

funkstar
2007-07-11, 23:49
I understand that the Squeezebox is (and will remain) Logitech branded and the Transporter will remain Slimdevices branded
The transporter doesn't even have a SlimDevices logo, just "transporter". Apparently it didn't look right with both when they were designing it. The transporter does have a Logitech logo on the produc information sticker on the bttom though.

stormy
2007-07-12, 00:24
I think the Logitech Logo looks better! (Burn Him!?) I am glad mine is Logitech branded and not Slim Devices. ;)

stevo
2007-07-12, 01:49
I bet the metals used came from Australia! Hey but that's alright isn't it - we are supposed to be buddies.

If I only bought Aussie products I would be typing this naked - (maybe although I wouldn't actually be able to type because the computer is a Dell made in Malaysia.

I wouldn't be listening to Dylan or Nirvana either. I would probably be huddled around a fire sheltered by a structure made from the bark of one of a native trees. But I could probably get quite a beat going banging on the hide of a roo stretched over a hollow log.

I love globalisation!

stevo

PS my loud speakers (VAF I93's) were made in Adelaide (South Australia) although the speakers are from Norway! I don't think they would go that well in my Aussie made shelter.

nelamvr6
2007-07-12, 02:31
The PCB assemblies are built in China, and have been since SB2. Until recently we did Squeezebox mechanical assembly, test, and packaging in California. That is now done in China also, but the boards are still done by the same manufacturer.

Eh... nevermind.

mvalera
2007-07-12, 11:03
The transporter doesn't even have a SlimDevices logo, just "transporter". Apparently it didn't look right with both when they were designing it. The transporter does have a Logitech logo on the produc information sticker on the bttom though.

Just for clarification, the Transporter used to be branded Slim Devices on the front. The new ones being produced now (still in California) are branded "transporter".

tomjtx
2007-07-12, 11:16
Don't forget that the high density corrugated shipping module now has the Logitech logo on it. I've read that the new ink used in this process traps electrons (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=213845&postcount=158)
instead of letting them jar loose during shipping, which means it will take a longer burn-in time.

If you have the original box, I am sure that Slim-labelled SB is worth $2k easy.

I do have the original box and the price just went to 2,000

msherman
2007-07-12, 11:25
tomjtx wrote:
>
> I do have the original box and the price just went to 2,000

You are bidding on a Slim Devices branded Squeezebox box.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/11/19/ceci_nest_pas_une_xbox/

:)

- Marc

funkstar
2007-07-12, 13:24
Just for clarification, the Transporter used to be branded Slim Devices on the front. The new ones being produced now (still in California) are branded "transporter".
Did it? my mistake then. I can't afford one so wouldn't know personally, i just seem to remember some saying it never even has an SD logo. my bad :)

Meatwad650
2007-09-20, 18:40
I know it shouldn't matter, but I'm glad that mine says "Designed and Manufactured in Mountain View"...because I live in Mountain View (0.8 miles as the crow flies from SlimHQ, 1.3 miles by car" And I really like Mountain View. Even if, as earlier alluded to, it was only final assembly.

Although I did kinda wonder if it was meant to be similar to the whole "designed by apple in California"...like anyone really cares where Mountain View is.

haunyack
2007-09-20, 18:45
I know it shouldn't matter, but I'm glad that mine says "Designed and Manufactured in Mountain View"...because I live in Mountain View (0.8 miles as the crow flies from SlimHQ, 1.3 miles by car" And I really like Mountain View. Even if, as earlier alluded to, it was only final assembly.

Although I did kinda wonder if it was meant to be similar to the whole "designed by apple in California"...like anyone really cares where Mountain View is.

I love Mountain View Ca.

Back in my youth, I flew P3 Orions (VP-31) out of Moffett Field.
Lovely little town.

.

Meatwad650
2007-09-20, 20:03
Back in my youth, I flew P3 Orions (VP-31) out of Moffett Field.

This is way OT but it reminds me about when I moved down here. My dad came to visit and I mentioned how I wanted to see Hanger 1 some day. He decided then was as good a time as any, so he busted out the the military ID (Captain, USN Ret.) and we went to visit. Scared the crap out of the E4 manning the entrance but we got inside and that was the coolest enclosed space I have ever been in. Will probably be that forever unless I get inside the VAB at the Cape. :)

So even if Logitech now owns the company I still feel that Slim Devices is a hometown company. However...so is VeriSign just up the street. :D