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Kevin Murphy
2004-01-05, 16:11
Hey, has everyone seen this article?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/34712.html

Wondering if there's any chance that information / technology can be
taken advantage of to bring my SliMP3's back into the realm of the
relevant for my music collection??

Very hopefully,

--Kevin Murphy
skoro (AT) skoroworld (DOT) com

Jason Snell
2004-01-05, 16:34
>Wondering if there's any chance that information / technology can be
>taken advantage of to bring my SliMP3's back into the realm of the
>relevant for my music collection??

DVD Jon is very good at publicity, but his "cracks" are not cracks.
In both of his boasts, he's basically extracting music or giving the
ability to play music for people with authorized computers. His
"cracks" aren't cracks, really, because they require you to be an
authorized user. iTunes Music won't _really_ be cracked until someone
comes up with a method to take any protected file belonging to _any_
account and unwrap it.

However, this does point out that one SHOULD be able to play
protected AAC files from a Slim Server that's running on an
authorized computer. In fact, I would wager there are some people on
this list who have figured out how to make it work. I would even
wager that, if Slim Devices really wanted to piss off Apple, they
could make it work today. QuickTime decodes AAC on the fly to AIFF;
all you have to do is pick up the AIFF and run it through LAME and
you're home free.

Anyway. In the meantime, I highly recommend iTunes LAME Encoder,
which will convert your m4ps into high-quality MP3s without any
intermediate steps for the user.

-jason

--
Jason Snell / Editor in Chief, Macworld / jsnell (AT) macworld (DOT) com
415-243-3565 / AIM-iChat: MW jsnell

Kevin Murphy
2004-01-05, 16:43
Jason Snell wrote:

>> Wondering if there's any chance that information / technology can be
>> taken advantage of to bring my SliMP3's back into the realm of the
>> relevant for my music collection??
>
>
> DVD Jon is very good at publicity, but his "cracks" are not cracks. In
> both of his boasts, he's basically extracting music or giving the
> ability to play music for people with authorized computers. His
> "cracks" aren't cracks, really, because they require you to be an
> authorized user. iTunes Music won't _really_ be cracked until someone
> comes up with a method to take any protected file belonging to _any_
> account and unwrap it.
>
I wasn't interested in a *crack*... I was interested in being able to
use my existing audio hardware to play music I rightfully own and
therefore should have the right to listen to in any way I see fit. And
therefore I am interested to see if there is any way to integrate this
concept into a SliMP3-able process.

> However, this does point out that one SHOULD be able to play protected
> AAC files from a Slim Server that's running on an authorized computer.
> In fact, I would wager there are some people on this list who have
> figured out how to make it work. I would even wager that, if Slim
> Devices really wanted to piss off Apple, they could make it work
> today. QuickTime decodes AAC on the fly to AIFF; all you have to do is
> pick up the AIFF and run it through LAME and you're home free.
>
I'm not looking to piss anyone off here, I'm looking to stop being
pissed off myself.

> Anyway. In the meantime, I highly recommend iTunes LAME Encoder, which
> will convert your m4ps into high-quality MP3s without any intermediate
> steps for the user.
>
Are you referring to M4A files here, or M4P? M4P == iTunes Music Store
protected AAC file, whereas M4A is an unprotected AAC file. Or am I
missing something here, and this "iTunes LAME Encoder" is already
capable of doing what I want, ie. playing iTunes Music Store files on my
SliMP3?

Thanks!

--Kevin

kdf
2004-01-05, 17:02
Quoting Kevin Murphy <skoro (AT) skoroworld (DOT) com>:
>
> > However, this does point out that one SHOULD be able to play protected
> > AAC files from a Slim Server that's running on an authorized computer.
> > In fact, I would wager there are some people on this list who have
> > figured out how to make it work. I would even wager that, if Slim
> > Devices really wanted to piss off Apple, they could make it work
> > today. QuickTime decodes AAC on the fly to AIFF; all you have to do is
> > pick up the AIFF and run it through LAME and you're home free.
> >
> I'm not looking to piss anyone off here, I'm looking to stop being
> pissed off myself.

I think the implication here is that were SlimDevices to make use of something
like this to circumvent Apple's control over the file format, it might hinder
the current working relationship. Yes, you do own rights to the files you ahve
purchased, but Apple also has the ability to use the protection to control what
clients can have access to those files (iTunes, iPod - sense the pattern here?).
Ideally, the solution needs to be a standalone binary that takes an m4p input
and outputs to PCM or stdout in a way that LAME can handle. This way, its just
a line in the convert.conf leaving the user responsible for downloading the
needed filter binary. Perhaps petitioning the authors of ffmpeg, or LAME could help.

>
> > Anyway. In the meantime, I highly recommend iTunes LAME Encoder, which
> > will convert your m4ps into high-quality MP3s without any intermediate
> > steps for the user.
> >
> Are you referring to M4A files here, or M4P? M4P == iTunes Music Store
> protected AAC file, whereas M4A is an unprotected AAC file. Or am I
> missing something here, and this "iTunes LAME Encoder" is already
> capable of doing what I want, ie. playing iTunes Music Store files on my
> SliMP3?

I recall it has been mentioned that iTunes-LAME will convert protected m4p files
and output them as MP3. This greatly lessens the effort compared to the
previous methods of having to burn to audio CD and then rip to MP3.

-kdf

Jason Snell
2004-01-05, 17:22
>>However, this does point out that one SHOULD be able to play
>>protected AAC files from a Slim Server that's running on an
>>authorized computer. In fact, I would wager there are some people
>>on this list who have figured out how to make it work. I would even
>>wager that, if Slim Devices really wanted to piss off Apple, they
>>could make it work today. QuickTime decodes AAC on the fly to AIFF;
>>all you have to do is pick up the AIFF and run it through LAME and
>>you're home free.
>>
>I'm not looking to piss anyone off here, I'm looking to stop being
>pissed off myself.

I agree. Sadly, Slim Devices giving us this feature might end up
causing a lot of harm to Slim Devices. Who knows? I bet there's a
way, though.

>Are you referring to M4A files here, or M4P?

M4P. Protected files.

>Or am I missing something here, and this "iTunes LAME Encoder" is
>already capable of doing what I want, ie. playing iTunes Music Store
>files on my SliMP3?

No, but it will convert them to MP3 format files in one step, with no
intermediate CD burn or AIFF conversion that you have to do before
encoding back to MP3.

http://www.blacktree.com/apps/index.html?iTunes-LAME/index.html


-jason
--
Jason Snell / Editor in Chief, Macworld / jsnell (AT) macworld (DOT) com
415-243-3565 / AIM-iChat: MW jsnell

zanbo
2004-01-05, 21:06
Is this true for Windows version of iTunes, or just MAC?
----- Original Message -----
From: "kdf" <slim-mail (AT) deane-freeman (DOT) com>
To: "Slim Devices Discussion" <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 5:02 PM
Subject: [slim] New iTunes DRM Breakthrough


> Quoting Kevin Murphy <skoro (AT) skoroworld (DOT) com>:
> >
> > > However, this does point out that one SHOULD be able to play protected
> > > AAC files from a Slim Server that's running on an authorized computer.
> > > In fact, I would wager there are some people on this list who have
> > > figured out how to make it work. I would even wager that, if Slim
> > > Devices really wanted to piss off Apple, they could make it work
> > > today. QuickTime decodes AAC on the fly to AIFF; all you have to do is
> > > pick up the AIFF and run it through LAME and you're home free.
> > >
> > I'm not looking to piss anyone off here, I'm looking to stop being
> > pissed off myself.
>
> I think the implication here is that were SlimDevices to make use of
something
> like this to circumvent Apple's control over the file format, it might
hinder
> the current working relationship. Yes, you do own rights to the files you
ahve
> purchased, but Apple also has the ability to use the protection to control
what
> clients can have access to those files (iTunes, iPod - sense the pattern
here?).
> Ideally, the solution needs to be a standalone binary that takes an m4p
input
> and outputs to PCM or stdout in a way that LAME can handle. This way, its
just
> a line in the convert.conf leaving the user responsible for downloading
the
> needed filter binary. Perhaps petitioning the authors of ffmpeg, or LAME
could help.
>
> >
> > > Anyway. In the meantime, I highly recommend iTunes LAME Encoder, which
> > > will convert your m4ps into high-quality MP3s without any intermediate
> > > steps for the user.
> > >
> > Are you referring to M4A files here, or M4P? M4P == iTunes Music Store
> > protected AAC file, whereas M4A is an unprotected AAC file. Or am I
> > missing something here, and this "iTunes LAME Encoder" is already
> > capable of doing what I want, ie. playing iTunes Music Store files on my
> > SliMP3?
>
> I recall it has been mentioned that iTunes-LAME will convert protected m4p
files
> and output them as MP3. This greatly lessens the effort compared to the
> previous methods of having to burn to audio CD and then rip to MP3.
>
> -kdf
>

Sean Graham
2004-01-05, 21:07
On Mon, Jan 05, 2004 at 09:06:02PM -0700, zanbo wrote:

> Is this true for Windows version of iTunes, or just MAC?

Actually, I think that Jon's iTunes work has all been done using Windows,
and that his key retreival stuff doesn't yet work on Macs.

sean
--
Sean M. Graham - grahams (AT) gti (DOT) net
http://www.pobox.com/~grahams/

kdf
2004-01-05, 21:11
Quoting zanbo <zanbo (AT) cox (DOT) net>:

> Is this true for Windows version of iTunes, or just MAC?

iTunes-LAME requires OSX.
-kdf


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kdf" <slim-mail (AT) deane-freeman (DOT) com>
> To: "Slim Devices Discussion" <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 5:02 PM
> Subject: [slim] New iTunes DRM Breakthrough
>
>
> > Quoting Kevin Murphy <skoro (AT) skoroworld (DOT) com>:
> > >
> > > > However, this does point out that one SHOULD be able to play protected
> > > > AAC files from a Slim Server that's running on an authorized computer.
> > > > In fact, I would wager there are some people on this list who have
> > > > figured out how to make it work. I would even wager that, if Slim
> > > > Devices really wanted to piss off Apple, they could make it work
> > > > today. QuickTime decodes AAC on the fly to AIFF; all you have to do is
> > > > pick up the AIFF and run it through LAME and you're home free.
> > > >
> > > I'm not looking to piss anyone off here, I'm looking to stop being
> > > pissed off myself.
> >
> > I think the implication here is that were SlimDevices to make use of
> something
> > like this to circumvent Apple's control over the file format, it might
> hinder
> > the current working relationship. Yes, you do own rights to the files you
> ahve
> > purchased, but Apple also has the ability to use the protection to control
> what
> > clients can have access to those files (iTunes, iPod - sense the pattern
> here?).
> > Ideally, the solution needs to be a standalone binary that takes an m4p
> input
> > and outputs to PCM or stdout in a way that LAME can handle. This way, its
> just
> > a line in the convert.conf leaving the user responsible for downloading
> the
> > needed filter binary. Perhaps petitioning the authors of ffmpeg, or LAME
> could help.
> >
> > >
> > > > Anyway. In the meantime, I highly recommend iTunes LAME Encoder, which
> > > > will convert your m4ps into high-quality MP3s without any intermediate
> > > > steps for the user.
> > > >
> > > Are you referring to M4A files here, or M4P? M4P == iTunes Music Store
> > > protected AAC file, whereas M4A is an unprotected AAC file. Or am I
> > > missing something here, and this "iTunes LAME Encoder" is already
> > > capable of doing what I want, ie. playing iTunes Music Store files on my
> > > SliMP3?
> >
> > I recall it has been mentioned that iTunes-LAME will convert protected m4p
> files
> > and output them as MP3. This greatly lessens the effort compared to the
> > previous methods of having to burn to audio CD and then rip to MP3.
> >
> > -kdf
> >
>
>

seanadams
2004-01-06, 07:28
On Jan 5, 2004, at 3:11 PM, Kevin Murphy wrote:

> Hey, has everyone seen this article?
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/34712.html


For those who missed it, just one week ago Jon Johansen was acquitted
in the retrial over his hack for DeCSS, which made it possible to
playback DVDs on any hardware/software, bypass commercials, region
codes etc. He now has firm precedent behind him (in Norway).

> Wondering if there's any chance that information / technology can be
> taken advantage of to bring my SliMP3's back into the realm of the
> relevant for my music collection??
>

Of course it can. But you probably won't see us shipping such support
out-of-the-box, at least in the US, where people go to jail for
expressing certain software algorithms.