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MrSinatra
2007-05-21, 16:48
so i've had the doors box set for quite a while, and then today i get the complete studio recordings, which comes with the "essential rarities disc"

now, i start to compare what songs from the ER disc i already have from the boxset, b/c i know to anticipate a lot of overlap. but i wasn't ready for this.

the first two tracks have exact matches on the box set. the third track is a cut of roadhouse blues from the 1970 msg concert.

on ER it is listed as 4:32 and starts right off, and ends with about 13 seconds left, so its actually ~4:19 long.

its counterpart on the boxset is on disc 2, track one. its listed as 4:19 total.

BUT it starts off with jim talking, and then gets into the groove. the start and end of it musically sound just like the one on the ER disc. so ok... HOWEVER

the box set one is as i said only ~4:19 long, YET when you take out the intro talking and end silence of it, its only ~3:44 long musically!

35 second difference??? 35 seconds less music on the box set then whats on the ER disc?

LAME!

so why is the box set one so much shorter musically than what's on ER musically, when they seemingly are the same exact version?

something is different in the middle, but i'm not sure what.

MrSinatra
2007-05-21, 16:59
track 5 on ER is apparently around 30 some seconds longer than whats on the box set.

MrSinatra
2007-05-21, 17:10
'the end' also isn't an exact match, but unlike the first two i listed, it seems to me to be just differences in how much audience is at the start and end of the track.

ER's tracks don't match up to the box sets timewise, but do musically, except 3 and 5. someone i am sure knows the reason why?

MrSinatra
2007-05-21, 17:21
btw, as far as i can tell, only 3, 5, and 15 are worth ripping if u have the box set, as the rest is duplication.

MrSinatra
2007-05-25, 11:56
no Doors fans here?

i was hoping someone would run their own 'tests' and see if their observations matched mine.

btcompute
2007-05-25, 13:16
I'm not a big Doors fan, but I'll comment, since nobody else has.

It sounds to me like just another case of the record company trying to get us to buy music all over again by releasing alternate versions of the songs.

Look at how many times alternate versions of Beatle songs have been put out there for us to buy...and buy again.

It may be that the band remixed some of the songs and kept a few different versions, or it may be the record companies just trying to make some more money by either creating new versions, or by selling versions that the band never intended us to hear.

I occasionally like to listen to "alternate track" albums (Blood on the Tracks, for one), but only if the alternates are substantially different from the originally released version.

Not only does it provide a different way to listen to the songs, but it offers some insight into the creative processes of the artist and producer. As I alluded to earlier, often these versions are just multiple attenpts to get the song to sound pleasing to the artist.

...Just my long winded and slightly off-subject response to your posts...

haunyack
2007-06-03, 22:09
I'm not a big Doors fan, but I'll comment, since nobody else has.

It sounds to me like just another case of the record company trying to get us to buy music all over again by releasing alternate versions of the songs.

Look at how many times alternate versions of Beatle songs have been put out there for us to buy...and buy again.

It may be that the band remixed some of the songs and kept a few different versions, or it may be the record companies just trying to make some more money by either creating new versions, or by selling versions that the band never intended us to hear.

I occasionally like to listen to "alternate track" albums (Blood on the Tracks, for one), but only if the alternates are substantially different from the originally released version.

Not only does it provide a different way to listen to the songs, but it offers some insight into the creative processes of the artist and producer. As I alluded to earlier, often these versions are just multiple attenpts to get the song to sound pleasing to the artist.

...Just my long winded and slightly off-subject response to your posts...

I agree ... there is also the "diamond in the rough" aspect.
Re-issue is of course all about the additional revenue I suppose...but sometimes I have found that the R.C. has done us a favor beyond their original intention of squeaking out a few more $$$.
I have discovered many personal favorites this way...a few dogs as well.

.

MrSinatra
2007-06-04, 09:24
i just wanted to point out, that money or profits or record company motive CAN'T be behind the differences on tracks 3 and 5.

(it def is on track 15, since its the only totally new track)

but nowhere is it mentioned or advertised by anyone that i've seen, that there are differences in the lengths of these versions for 3 and 5.

its too "secret" for that to have been their motive.

JJZolx
2007-06-04, 12:00
so why is the box set one so much shorter musically than what's on ER musically, when they seemingly are the same exact version?

something is different in the middle, but i'm not sure what.

I must be missing something... but then again I'm not a rocket scientist.

You have both versions in front of you. Load them up on a computer in Winamp or another player and fast forward and rewind until you find the spot where they diverge. (Don't try this with a Squeezebox unless you're a raving masochist.)

If they're the "exact" same performance then apparently one has been edited and it shouldn't take you long to figure out the difference.

If they're not the same version (different live performances, perhaps) that should also be fairly obvious.

MrSinatra
2007-06-04, 12:23
i have already proven to myself that they are in fact cuts of the same exact live performance.

i also realize i could do a winamp second by second comparison to spot the difference (probably) but i guess my question isn't so much what is different, but WHY would they have this difference, and not explain or notate it anywhere?

perhaps i missed it, but still, i find it annoying to not have an indication of this, or an explanation as to the reasoning.

JJZolx
2007-06-04, 12:28
perhaps i missed it, but still, i find it annoying to not have an indication of this, or an explanation as to the reasoning.

Did it say "remastered" anywhere on the packaging, by chance?

MrSinatra
2007-06-04, 12:47
well, the 4cd box set was 97 and was remastered, and the album box set was remastered in 99.

my ER disc came with that 99 set, but ER was also released on its own in 2000 fyi.

in both cases, the ER disc compiles tracks from the 97 box set, with track 15 being the one totally new addition.

regardless, just putting "remastered" on a disc isn't indicative or enough info. and other than the differences on track 3 and 5, i doubt anything else was changed in that two year span.

the total disc length is 1 hour, 13min, 20 sec... so maybe the CD constrained them. but that seems like something they should annotate to me. also, why edit down for just those few CD players that can't handle more than 74 mins?

kbeast
2007-06-08, 20:53
I'm not a huge Doors fan, but I did happen to purchase the box set Perception a few days ago, reading through the first album booklet, it stated that someone noticed that the music on the album was slowed down a bit, so this box set has the albums at their intended speeds.

Basically, they said the way the 4-tracks worked could slow down from tightly wound tape and all that fun stuff, and they didn't realize it at the time.

I don't know how much of this applies to the other albums, since I don't know the music all that well. I have a 2 disc greatest hits album from a while back, and I can tell you that this box set is superb in quality and was a perfect buy for me to catch up on great Doors music with superb sound quality.

As far as a fight with the man, I feel the pain, I purchased just about every Metallica import singles to get the rare b-sides and whatnot, and then sure enough they release an album that has all of them on them. Oh yeah, the Deftones did the same to me, at one point they even released three different versions of the same album. There are plenty of others, but these are the two that stand out.