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amey01
2007-05-15, 23:31
I have found when I hold the forward or rewind buttons, I don't get the conventional Fast Forward or Rewind functions as the manual states I should - I only get track skip. Has anyone else found this on an SB3?

Mark Lanctot
2007-05-16, 05:35
What file formats are you using?

FF/REW is only supported on native file formats like MP3, FLAC, WAV and AIFF.

amey01
2007-05-16, 18:40
What file formats are you using?

FF/REW is only supported on native file formats like MP3, FLAC, WAV and AIFF.

I'm using ALAC - I guess that answers the question - even if it's not really an acceptable answer that this new, up-to-the-minute squeezebox can't even provide the functionality of the earliest of CD players! I still love it though!

Mark Lanctot
2007-05-16, 19:19
I'm using ALAC - I guess that answers the question - even if it's not really an acceptable answer that this new, up-to-the-minute squeezebox can't even provide the functionality of the earliest of CD players! I still love it though!

Well, think about the process of transcoding - it's taking one format, decoding it, then re-encoding it...all in real-time. Other programs do this, but to do this while feeding a hardware buffer and playing back in real-time is no mean feat. Provided the PC is fast enough, you can do this in one direction, but to skip forward or back you'd have to do this process in a software buffer, and for it to be really effective you'd have to buffer the whole song in software, which means you'd have to wait for the whole song to be transcoded before it will play. That would be unacceptable, you'd have to resort to a fairly tricky workaround.

Transcoding is provided as a convenience - it allows you to play far more formats than could realistically be fit in the firmware. Sure, it's not nice if you discover things like this, but the process can be so transparent you didn't know it was going on until I told you. However no other competing product supports more formats, even if it is through transcoding. Typically they support as many formats as the Squeezebox does natively - 4 or so.

Nostromo
2007-05-17, 00:16
FF/REW doesn't work very well anyhow. You're not missing much. I only wish it would work as well as a DVD player...

slimkid
2007-05-17, 09:21
Well, think about the process of transcoding - it's taking one format, decoding it, then re-encoding it...


Well, nothing personal (this is directed to Slimdevices), but why would he need to think or even care about all of that. It's designer's/developers' job. He's a paying customer. He has every reason to expect that FF means fast forward and that it ... forwards things :)

<rant-on>
Transcoding isn't a convenience or favour - it's an advertised feature, it should work transparently. From another thread we could find out that there is 24/96 capability lately thrown into SB's firmware. Now, you tell me - what's more important to spend money/time/memory bits, obscure feature that very few people really need/want or correcting the basic functionality that should have been there from the very begining. And I'm not talking about transcoding FF, I'm talking about any FF that really sucks compared to even basic CD players from 15 yrs ago.
</rant-on>

K

Ben Sandee
2007-05-17, 09:26
On 5/17/07, slimkid <slimkid.2qqjzn1179419101 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
wrote:
>
> <rant-on>
> Transcoding isn't a convenience or favour - it's an advertised feature,
> it should work transparently. From another thread we could find out that
> there is 24/96 capability lately thrown into SB's firmware. Now, you
> tell me - what's more important to spend money/time/memory bits,
> obscure feature that very few people really need/want or correcting the
> basic functionality that should have been there from the very begining.
> And I'm not talking about transcoding FF, I'm talking about any FF that
> really sucks compared to even basic CD players from 15 yrs ago.
> </rant-on>


I'm unable to find anywhere where FF/RW support is even an advertised
feature. Transcoding is advertisted and does work.

Ben

slimkid
2007-05-17, 10:13
I'm unable to find anywhere where FF/RW support is even an advertised
feature. Transcoding is advertisted and does work.

Ben

If you take a closer look onto your remote, you'll see button with the >> on it and FWD above it. Call me silly, but I'd expect it to behave exactly like anything else in the world that shows those signs. Just like when I see 'H' sign, somehow the word hospital comes to mind.

and then formally, from the owners manual:

-----------------------
Using the Remote:
...
Press FWD to skip to the next song. Press and
hold FWD to scan forward through the current
song.
...
------------------------



All I'm saying is, this is a basic functionality for any player and it should be done right before some more exotic things are taken on.

GlennT
2007-05-17, 10:16
I'm unable to find anywhere where FF/RW support is even an advertised
feature. Transcoding is advertisted and does work.

Ben

Transport functions are so universal that I believe it is only natural to expect them to behave univerally. I wasn't expecting it to everything to be perfect, but I was certainly disappointed with the clumbsy FFW and RRW; really the only disappointment honestly. Also, not having a stop button still catches me off guard, though less so since I use a universal remote with pause mapped to stop. I love the simplicity of the remote and the interface, but I would definately support additions of separate track advanced/reverse and FFW/RWD, and maybe even stop. It's only 3 buttons. As it stands, I find myself having to think everytime I want to FFW to the middle of a track, taking my focus away, and that's just not something I have ever had to do with any other device.

The actual behavior is not unlike other software application, as you even run into similar situations with Windows Media Player and the like, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be prudent to seak solutions for those limitations. JMVHO. :)

Richie
2007-05-17, 10:30
> there is 24/96 capability lately thrown into SB's firmware. Now, you
> tell me - what's more important to spend money/time/memory bits,
> obscure feature that very few people really need/want or correcting the
> basic functionality that should have been there from the very begining.
> And I'm not talking about transcoding FF, I'm talking about any FF that
> really sucks compared to even basic CD players from 15 yrs ago.

I've never used FF/RW on a squeezebox or on a CD player for that
matter, so I'd vote for the 24/96 even though I can't use it.
Personally I can't understand why anyone would want it, but that's
just my opinion.

Richard

Mark Lanctot
2007-05-17, 10:31
Also, not having a stop button still catches me off guard, though less so since I use a universal remote with pause mapped to stop.

Press and hold pause to stop.

Many buttons have different mappings on press-and-hold.

Hercules
2007-05-17, 13:17
For me, the poor FF/REW functionality is the one key flaw of the Squeezebox.

I have a few large mp3 files (things like recorded concerts that haven't been split) and from time to time I want to forward through them. I can do so on my portable mp3 player, but don't ever bother trying on the Squeezebox.

It would be great if it worked well :)

verbatone
2007-05-18, 13:18
Yeah, I couldn't find an entry in bugzilla that even talks about standardizing the FF/RWD feature to be like virtually every other player. Perhaps one is needed.

It can't be an issue with buffering data since when in 16x mode, if you press play, the file playback starts pretty quickly, so I can't imagine it's a buffering issue. I think it's just an implementation issue. I wish I knew Perl better, I'd try a patch for this. Could be fun and maybe I'll look into it.

Another issue that's wierd with FF/RWD is that it makes noise kinda like a CD player fast forwarding. I would think it should either mute the audio when in FF/RWD, or keep playing the track until the progress meter shows where you want to stop, then start from that point. Even cooler would be to have a separate screen that has basically just the progress bar which allows good visuals of where the FF/RWD "new" point is. This second version would be like how Winamp and others handle FF/RWD.

discocarp
2007-05-18, 13:27
I would think it should either mute the audio when in FF/RWD, or keep playing the track until the progress meter shows where you want to stop, then start from that point.

What if you are trying to find a particular spot by sound?

Mark Lanctot
2007-05-18, 13:30
Another issue that's wierd with FF/RWD is that it makes noise kinda like a CD player fast forwarding. I would think it should either mute the audio when in FF/RWD, or keep playing the track until the progress meter shows where you want to stop, then start from that point. Even cooler would be to have a separate screen that has basically just the progress bar which allows good visuals of where the FF/RWD "new" point is. This second version would be like how Winamp and others handle FF/RWD.

There's an outstanding bug request to have the volume reduced during FF/RW - at full volume it's really hard to listen to.

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=39

It's an oldie (bug 39! Current bugs are at 5000 or so) and it hasn't attracted much attention, just two votes.

azinck3
2007-05-18, 13:32
Even cooler would be to have a separate screen that has basically just the progress bar which allows good visuals of where the FF/RWD "new" point is. This second version would be like how Winamp and others handle FF/RWD.

Check into KDF's SongScanner plugin...it does just this.

danco
2007-05-18, 13:34
For me, the poor FF/REW functionality is the one key flaw of the Squeezebox.

I have a few large mp3 files (things like recorded concerts that haven't been split) and from time to time I want to forward through them. I can do so on my portable mp3 player, but don't ever bother trying on the Squeezebox.

It would be great if it worked well :)

For that, the Song Scanner plugin works well.

And it works even better if you edit the file so as to scan in larger jumps.

kdf
2007-05-18, 13:35
Quoting verbatone <verbatone.2qspjb1179519601 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:

>
> Yeah, I couldn't find an entry in bugzilla that even talks about
> standardizing the FF/RWD feature to be like virtually every other
> player. Perhaps one is needed.

Feel free to add your comments to any one of:
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1649
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1592
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2942
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=47

also relevant reports:
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3809
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=571

-kdf

discocarp
2007-05-18, 13:35
Interesting. I'll have to check it out.

verbatone
2007-05-18, 16:49
Thanks KDF, bug 1649 is the closest I found. I did see some of these others in the bugzilla search, but didn't find 1649. I'll put vote next to it with a comment.

I'll also look into your SongScanner plugin, first I've heard of it.


Quoting verbatone <verbatone.2qspjb1179519601 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:

>
> Yeah, I couldn't find an entry in bugzilla that even talks about
> standardizing the FF/RWD feature to be like virtually every other
> player. Perhaps one is needed.

Feel free to add your comments to any one of:
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1649
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1592
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2942
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=47

also relevant reports:
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3809
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=571

-kdf

getprogs
2007-05-19, 11:46
But the FF and REW are also the main annoyances for me (did not stop me from bying my third unit, but still ;-).

I especially hate "Prince" (before he started messing with his name) for making "Lovesexy" a single track - and then I hate myself for ripping everything into WMA where I can NOT use FF/REW (bug ID 571).

I would just hate to rip everything again (800+ CDs, and the hours are non-billable...), and I have learned enough digital signal processing to know that I will not get the same quality by converting them using a publicly available tool.

Damn!

Still like my little jukeboxes, though - even my daughter who is almost 2 YO can turn it on and select Favorite 1 (which contains only 1 song that is driving her parents MAD but keeps her spinning on the dancefloor for the duration). Should I raise a bug to have the "Repeat" function removed entirely???

thexraysound
2007-05-22, 19:44
To start: My entire library is not in any of the native formats so NO FF/RW button. Is apple lossless too much to ask for??? O.K. blame it on apple. But how difficult it is to divide the huge files into parts and have the transcoder resume from say... 5 mb forward (few seconds)? We'll still miss the sound feedback but....

... this bare minimum is a MUST.


What is worse: I own the NOT inexpensive Transporter. Should I be begging for a FF/RW button. I had a choice to convert my CDs to any format and guess what - apple is only to most organized and easy to browse library (plus it is on all 5 laptops at my home not to mention one of the two desktops)


Song scanner was my hope but it does not support non native formats.

kdf
2007-05-22, 20:23
On 22-May-07, at 7:44 PM, thexraysound wrote:

> But how difficult it is to divide the huge files into parts and
> have the transcoder resume from say... 5 mb forward (few seconds)?
>

I love this question...
>
> Song scanner was my hope but it does not support non native formats.
>
basically, because it isn't easy to stop and start launched application
mid-stream.

Sorry. it isn't done this way to piss you off, or rip you off. It's
this way because it offers as many playable options as possible by
making the most of what can be done inside of the various constraints.
The simpler thing would in fact be to strip everything back to FLAC and
mp3, but that won't please everyone either.

If playing lossless music on your transporter with the ability to
FF/REW is your top priority, then you do have format options that will
give you this.
Having other priorities, you have clearly chosen AAC Lossless for your
needs, and to use Transporter with that to have the best audio quality
to your home system.

-kdf

oreillymj
2007-05-23, 05:01
BTW - for the LoveSexy album, I ripped the entire album to WAV, then loaded it into Goldwave or Audacity and cut it into chunks with a regular fadein/out for each track.

I then saved and compressed to MP3. Took me about 1 hour.
I know it's not how the original album was released, but so what.


I've also had to do this with the Simple Minds live CD's where the tracks are split using crowd noise.

and then there those annoying "hidden" tracks with 10 minutes of filler silence in front of them to make you think you've bought 60mins of music.

eurale
2007-06-11, 03:45
look for scanner.pm plugin ... and then change the map in IR for fwd.hold and rew.hold to menu_PLUGIN.scanner ....