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amcluesent
2007-04-28, 06:03
To protect my library, I am thinking of getting 2 750Gb SATA drives and mirroring them to give a net capacity of 750Gb.

Anyone with experience of doing this with XP Pro? I'm not so keen on a consumer RAID card for reliability.

And will an XP Pro mirrored set be OK for an upgrade to Vista?

mherger
2007-04-28, 06:13
> To protect my library, I am thinking of getting 2 750Gb SATA drives and
> mirroring them to give a net capacity of 750Gb.

Mirroring will _not_ protect your files from deletion, corruption or
anything besides disk failure. RAID is interesting if slimserver is a
timely critical application for you, where you can't afford an
interruption of a few hours. Otherwise it's waste of money and unneeded
complexity.

Go with a single internal disk and an external disk for manual backups.
Search the forum for discussions of this topic.

--

Michael

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http://www.herger.net/SlimCD - your SlimServer on a CD
http://www.herger.net/slim - AlbumReview, Biography, MusicInfoSCR

bdelp
2007-04-28, 07:20
It's much safer to get a multi- bay drive enclosure: http://www.cooldrives.com/usbenclosures.html
Buy your drives in pairs. One "working" and one "backup" drive.
Slide in the backup drive and use: http://www.allwaysync.com/
Keep backup drive in safe or off site.
G27

mortslim
2007-04-28, 09:14
well raid for mirroring does have some benefit if you like the idea of an immediate backup without the need to do a manual or scheduled backup. this helps when one of two drives goes bad.

if you combine mirroring with a third drive for backup, then I think you cover it all.

I am thinking of getting the western digital my book world edition II.

Mark Lanctot
2007-04-28, 09:22
well raid for mirroring does have some benefit if you like the idea of an immediate backup without the need to do a manual or scheduled backup. this helps when one of two drives goes bad.

But what if you get a virus? What if you delete something you wish you hadn't? Sorry, too bad, the changes get written to the second drive immediately.

RAID 1 will help you in the event of disc failure and nothing else. It is not a backup. You'd be much better advised to use the second disc in an external backup before considering RAID 1.

mik63
2007-04-29, 09:28
I am using RAID10 (stripe + mirror) on my HP workstation server. I use 4x250G high speed SATA drives. HP workstations have Intel RAID built in.
RAID 10 has both speed and redundancy advantages. It will continue working if one drive goes bad. Obviously it makes sense to have a spare drive handy in case that happens.
The main trick is to have a floppy drive to load the Intel RAID driver when you load WinXP.

You can also use Software RAID5 on XP:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/11/19/using_windowsxp_to_make_raid_5_happen/page2.html

For "backup" you can use SyncToy from Microsoft and keep the files sync'ed up on an external USB drive.

Mitch Harding
2007-04-30, 10:42
I agree that if you can only do one or the other, backups make more sense,
assuming the backups do proper versioning.

But for me, I do both. I take the backups for peace of mind, but if I have
a drive failure, I like being able to be back up and running quickly. I've
had one drive failure in my 8 years or so with this RAID setup, and the
rapidity with which I was back up and running was well worth it for me.

On 4/28/07, Mark Lanctot <
Mark.Lanctot.2prdbn1177777501 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
>
> mortslim;198140 Wrote:
> > well raid for mirroring does have some benefit if you like the idea of
> > an immediate backup without the need to do a manual or scheduled
> > backup. this helps when one of two drives goes bad.
>
> But what if you get a virus? What if you delete something you wish you
> hadn't? Sorry, too bad, the changes get written to the second drive
> immediately.
>
> RAID 1 will help you in the event of disc failure and nothing else. It
> is not a backup. You'd be much better advised to use the second disc in
> an external backup before considering RAID 1.
>
>
> --
> Mark Lanctot
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mark Lanctot's Profile:
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34845
>
>

Mark Lanctot
2007-04-30, 12:04
I agree that if you can only do one or the other, backups make more sense,
assuming the backups do proper versioning.

But for me, I do both. I take the backups for peace of mind, but if I have
a drive failure, I like being able to be back up and running quickly. I've
had one drive failure in my 8 years or so with this RAID setup, and the
rapidity with which I was back up and running was well worth it for me.

Certainly, if you can do both, that's great. But backups first, then RAID.

BTW something to consider: will your RAID card still be available if it were to die? This happened to me recently - I had a RAID 0 (*cough, cough*) set on an Intel ICH5R southbridge RAID controller. Then the motherboard died. Where can you get a board with an Intel ICH5R RAID controller these days? Nowhere. The new Intel RAID controllers are incompatible with the data structure. The data on the drives was irretrievable.

So I'll have to restore from backup. Still haven't fully recovered yet.

A true hardware RAID controller, while expensive, will probably be available for quite some time though.

JJZolx
2007-04-30, 12:13
well raid for mirroring does have some benefit if you like the idea of an immediate backup without the need to do a manual or scheduled backup. this helps when one of two drives goes bad.

if you combine mirroring with a third drive for backup, then I think you cover it all.

This is a fairly senseless approach to configuring music storage, unless, like Michael stated, you can't afford to have your music server down for even a minute. Again, RAID redundancy does not offer a "backup" of -any- sort, not even an "imediate backup".

Mitch Harding
2007-04-30, 14:35
It may not be immediate, but in my case, I was back online within an hour or
so, not counting the time it took to purchase and install a new drive (which
would be the same for RAID or for a restore). Backing up to my external
drive takes many hours (for the first backup -- the subsequent incrementals
are faster, of course), and I'm sure the restore would take a comparable
amount of time.

For me, it's not senseless. The extra cost is not that great (I've been
using the same < $100 RAID card for the entire 8 years, and the extra drive
was probably around $100), and I've already experienced the benefits.

On 4/30/07, JJZolx <JJZolx.2pvaiz1177960501 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
wrote:
>
>
> mortslim;198140 Wrote:
> > well raid for mirroring does have some benefit if you like the idea of
> > an immediate backup without the need to do a manual or scheduled
> > backup. this helps when one of two drives goes bad.
> >
> > if you combine mirroring with a third drive for backup, then I think
> > you cover it all.
> >
> This is a fairly senseless approach to configuring music storage,
> unless, like Michael stated, you can't afford to have your music server
> down for even a minute. Again, RAID redundancy does not offer a
> "backup" of -any- sort, not even an "imediate backup".
>
>
> --
> JJZolx
>
> Jim
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34845
>
>

Mitch Harding
2007-04-30, 14:37
I had considered this aspect. I'm using one of the Promise ATA RAID
controllers from Highpoint Technologies in their RocketRaid series. It
looks like they're still selling my model, although now that ATA is going
away, it may be time for me to move up to a SATA RAID array, for exactly the
reasons you outline.

I've always been leery of the onboard motherboard RAID for the reasons you
described, and also since it would make upgrading the server more of a pain.

On 4/30/07, Mark Lanctot <
Mark.Lanctot.2pva2b1177959902 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
>
> Mitch Harding;198627 Wrote:
> > I agree that if you can only do one or the other, backups make more
> > sense,
> > assuming the backups do proper versioning.
> >
> > But for me, I do both. I take the backups for peace of mind, but if I
> > have
> > a drive failure, I like being able to be back up and running quickly.
> > I've
> > had one drive failure in my 8 years or so with this RAID setup, and the
> > rapidity with which I was back up and running was well worth it for me.
>
> Certainly, if you can do both, that's great. But backups first, then
> RAID.
>
> BTW something to consider: will your RAID card still be available if it
> were to die? This happened to me recently - I had a RAID 0 (*cough,
> cough*) set on an Intel ICH5R southbridge RAID controller. Then the
> motherboard died. Where can you get a board with an Intel ICH5R RAID
> controller these days? Nowhere. The new Intel RAID controllers are
> incompatible with the data structure. The data on the drives was
> irretrievable.
>
> So I'll have to restore from backup. Still haven't fully recovered
> yet.
>
> A true hardware RAID controller, while expensive, will probably be
> available for quite some time though.
>
>
> --
> Mark Lanctot
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mark Lanctot's Profile:
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34845
>
>

mherger
2007-04-30, 23:51
> For me, it's not senseless.

Correct. RAID has been there for some reason - I'm using it extensively at
work. But it doesn't replace a backup. You delete a file? It's gone. Your
tagger corrupts all your files in a mass tagging attempt? Bad for you.
Viruses? Children? There are many more reasons for data loss much more
probable than disk failure.

Get a second disk and do backups. You do yourself a favor. No need to
watch the Windows' progress bar for hours. This can be done overnight or
in the background.

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------------
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