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donglobal
2007-03-31, 10:02
Hi Everyone,

I am new the the whole Squeezebox thing but I have a very simple request and would like to know if either the Sqeeze box or Transporter can work for me before I decide to go down this route.

I have a huge Mp3 music collection which is currenly on a combination of my hard drive and over over 100 DVD's. I would like to put the entire collection on an Networkstorage device, something with either 1TB or 2tb of space. I like the idea of the slim server being able to help organize my collection and make playlists etc, but what I really want to do is play my collection via my Hi-Fi system without having the computer on.
Is this possible and if so how?

My network storage device will be connected either via Rj45 or wirelessly to my router I want the Squeezebox or transporter to access my network also and be able to play any song or album on the storage device via my hi-fi without the computer being invloved. I only want to computer to come into play when i need to add or make new playlists.

I want to do this becasue not everyone including my parents of some friends who visit are computer experts and i would like them to be able to pick up the remote, choose a genre or artist and play music, i do not want them to have to make sure the computer is on etc, Am I asking too much for this to happen, surely if men can be sent to the moon remotley there must be a simple way of doing something like this.

If there is a thread which points to this and help in setting this up please let me know. depending on whether this can be done or not be allow me to make a decison on whther to buy a slim devices product or not.

I eagerly await your replies.

regards

Donald

pfarrell
2007-03-31, 10:18
donglobal wrote:
> I am new the the whole Squeezebox thing but I have a very simple
> request and would like to know if either the Sqeeze box or Transporter
> can work for me before I decide to go down this route.

The short answer is if you phrase it exactly as you have, no.
But if you want to do what you describe and leave out the technical
details, the answer is yes.

> help organize my collection and make playlists etc, but what I really
> want to do is play my collection via my Hi-Fi system without having the
> computer on.
> Is this possible and if so how?

The company name was/is Slim Devices. The devices have limited
functions. They rely upon a computer to have the brains.
The computer doesn't have to be much, and can be on another floor (mine
is down in the basement, untouched and unseen).

But to play your collection of music, you need a computer.

> to pick up the remote, choose a genre or artist and play music, i do not
> want them to have to make sure the computer is on etc,


Just leave the computer on, put it in the basement, and you have what
you want.


--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

Ur[s]uS
2007-03-31, 10:19
Check out
http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?BeginnersGuideToServers

Think about out of box solutions - Infrant ReadyNAS or QNap
Think about build your own NAS solutions - hacking a Linkstation, Kurobox etc.
Think about build your own server solutions.
There are several ways to skin this cat and most are discussed somewhere in this forum.

Me, slimserver runs on a HTPC, with a ReadyNAS away in the spared bedroom.

I have no hesitation recommending SB3 as solution. I have no experience of Transporter.

Some people complain of server software, but not me. I guess I am something of a faboy, but it works well and the proof is that I started with one a year ago. Since then I have bought three (bedroom, for a friend and the fourth for the kitchen is on its way). Another friend to whom I recommended them just bought his third. I also got the ReadyNAS on the basis of the link from Slim Devices and very recently a second hand Nokia770 to match nicely with the dedicated skin.

Recommendation #1. Hard-wire the NAS to your router, otherwise too much wireless activity bouncing from SB3 to NAS/server and back again.

Recommendation #2. Get anal about having your MP3 tags in order. Slimserver will expose weaknesses in your legacy tags (misspellings or old forms of tag). Sometimes its just embarrassing to see the misspelling, but sometimes it will muck with your slimserver database - artists appearing more than once (because of case sensitivity) or albums splitting (again, slight misspelling or case changes).

Wife Acceptance Factor is important and mine is not technical - often boasting to her friends about how she cannot even turn on the TV any more. But with SB3 she is entirely at home - always using the one in the bedroom and asking for there to be one in the kitchen. I kid you not !

Keep reading her for war stories and answers.

donglobal
2007-03-31, 11:13
I'm impressed,

Until now I knew nothing about Slim Devices, after just 30 mins you guys make me feel like a guru, you know your shit, thats for sure. Thanks for the advice. the only thing now is to work out the advantages and disavantages of the two products, the squeezebox and transporter.

In regards to the Nas box (storage) I want it to be quiet, I don't want it to sound like an aeroplane in the living room, which one would you recomend?

Based on what is being said in the two replies if I have a Nas I do not need to have the computer on to play my music? is this correct or not?

If I still need to have the computer on even though I have a nas then this is not the route I want to go. I do not have a basement or anywhere like that to keep a spare computer, I usally use a notebook for my daily work. is it immperitive that the music is streamed via the slimserver even if it is on a Nas? are the devices not intelligent enough to acccess the Nas by itself? if not what solution would you recommed?

donglobal
2007-03-31, 11:18
donglobal wrote:
> I am new the the whole Squeezebox thing but I have a very simple
> request and would like to know if either the Sqeeze box or Transporter
> can work for me before I decide to go down this route.

The short answer is if you phrase it exactly as you have, no.
But if you want to do what you describe and leave out the technical
details, the answer is yes.

> help organize my collection and make playlists etc, but what I really
> want to do is play my collection via my Hi-Fi system without having the
> computer on.
> Is this possible and if so how?

The company name was/is Slim Devices. The devices have limited
functions. They rely upon a computer to have the brains.
The computer doesn't have to be much, and can be on another floor (mine
is down in the basement, untouched and unseen).

But to play your collection of music, you need a computer.

> to pick up the remote, choose a genre or artist and play music, i do not
> want them to have to make sure the computer is on etc,


Just leave the computer on, put it in the basement, and you have what
you want.


--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

Pfarrell, I've just visited your site and saw that you have a utility for obtain cover art from Amazon, who is this used, as it owuld appear that the slim devices cannot display cover art, I would be interested to know how you use this, the olny thing I have used cover art with is iTunes.

pfarrell
2007-03-31, 11:38
donglobal wrote:
> In regards to the Nas box (storage) I want it to be quiet, I don't want
> it to sound like an aeroplane in the living room, which one would you
> recomend?


> Based on what is being said in the two replies if I have a Nas I do not
> need to have the computer on to play my music? is this correct or not?

A NAS is a computer. Most of them run Linux.
They can easily be placed in the basement or in a closet.

In the Slim Server world, you install the SlimServer software on the NAS.

Some NAS have enough power to run it well, some are underpowered.
Check the forum archives, I run my SlimServer on a junker PC.


> If I still need to have the computer on even though I have a nas then
> this is not the route I want to go. I do not have a basement or
> anywhere like that to keep a spare computer, I usally use a notebook
> for my daily work. is it immperitive that the music is streamed via
> the slimserver even if it is on a Nas? are the devices not intelligent
> enough to acccess the Nas by itself?

The devices have to talk to a computer. A NAS is a computer and many are
smart enough.


--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

pfarrell
2007-03-31, 11:41
donglobal wrote:
> Pfarrell, I've just visited your site and saw that you have a utility
> for obtain cover art from Amazon, who is this used, as it owuld appear
> that the slim devices cannot display cover art, I would be interested
> to know how you use this, the olny thing I have used cover art with is
> iTunes.

The SlimServer will display cover art when it find it. I forget how many
ways it can find the art.

My utility is used to obtain the .jpg files of the cover art. You don't
need it, you can use any of a number of programs to fetch the art, and a
fair number of MP3 files have it internally. You can even just go to
Amazon or AllMusic and pull the cover art down manually.

My MusicUtil just automates it, which is handy if you want to get a few
hundred covers at once, as it can be tedious to right click,
save-image-as, repeat.

--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

donglobal
2007-03-31, 11:49
donglobal wrote:
> Pfarrell, I've just visited your site and saw that you have a utility
> for obtain cover art from Amazon, who is this used, as it owuld appear
> that the slim devices cannot display cover art, I would be interested
> to know how you use this, the olny thing I have used cover art with is
> iTunes.

The SlimServer will display cover art when it find it. I forget how many
ways it can find the art.

My utility is used to obtain the .jpg files of the cover art. You don't
need it, you can use any of a number of programs to fetch the art, and a
fair number of MP3 files have it internally. You can even just go to
Amazon or AllMusic and pull the cover art down manually.

My MusicUtil just automates it, which is handy if you want to get a few
hundred covers at once, as it can be tedious to right click,
save-image-as, repeat.

--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

Hi Pfarrell,
You are quite right you don't need it but it is a nice touch, I use cover art of my entire iTunes collection. I thought tht the slim devices display was monotone and displayed in a single color? is this corect, if so how do you get it to display cover-art?

pfarrell
2007-03-31, 11:54
donglobal wrote:
> You are quite right you don't need it but it is a nice touch, I use
> cover art of my entire iTunes collection. I thought tht the slim
> devices display was monotone and displayed in a single color? is this
> corect, if so how do you get it to display cover-art?

You are correct, the display on the SqueezeBox or Transporter is
mono-chrome.

Showing cover art is really for the web interface.
While some people use the remote control, I never do. I use
a laptop and point to the machine running SlimServer.
There are many skins, I like Fishbone, which does a nice job of showing
cover art.

A fair number of people use small PDAs to show the web interface, again
instead of using the remote. Nokia 770 and 800 are mentioned a lot, even
PlayStation Portables. You could probably even use a smart cell phone.

The web interface is fairly lightweight, up until a few months ago, I
used a lap top from last century, a Toshiba P233 with 356 MB of Ram,
with DSL. Worked fine as a fancy remote control.

--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

ModelCitizen
2007-03-31, 12:07
Hi Pfarrell,
You are quite right you don't need it but it is a nice touch, I use cover art of my entire iTunes collection. I thought tht the slim devices display was monotone and displayed in a single color? is this corect, if so how do you get it to display cover-art?

Nope, SlimServer has loads of "skins". The default skin is grey. Fishbone (my favourite) can be black, grey or tan. There is also a Flash based skin, and skins for various handhelds and more.

I like the idea of the slim server being able to help organize my collection and make playlists etc,
I hope these millions of MP3s you have are tagged correctly. SlimServer does not tag files and if they are not tagged it can only guess using filename and directory at what the correct artist/album/tracknumber etc is.
SlimServer will build Playlists, and you can save them for future use too.

As for your decision between a Squeezebox 3 (there's a special SD deal on some at the moment) and a Transporter. If you have MP3 files, rather than lossless files then the SB3 should suit. You can use the analog outs (i.e. there is no point in adding a DAC if you use lossless files). A Transporter is considerably more expensive than a SB3, mostly due to it's audiophile circuitry... which you won't need. The dual displays are very handy though...

There are some who think that running SlimServer on a NAS is painful as they don't have enough power for doing things efficiently such as scanning music, displaying album art etc. You can get a cheap PC (Linux preferably if you know it, but Slimserver runs fine on Windows now), big disks (you should at least mirror your music for backup purposes) and hide it away Gawd, stick it in the loft, under a floor, in the bathroom... oh perhaps not..). Wire it to your network. The SB can be wireless.
Actually you might even get away with both being wireless if you are only streaming MP3s.

MC

Ur[s]uS
2007-03-31, 12:37
In regards to the Nas box (storage) I want it to be quiet, I don't want it to sound like an aeroplane in the living room, which one would you recomend?

The ReadyNAS is supposed to be quiet, but I do not think it is quiet enough for living room. It does not need to be in the living room anyway, so wardrobe in spare bedroom is where I have mine.



Based on what is being said in the two replies if I have a Nas I do not need to have the computer on to play my music? is this correct or not?

As described, people have different experiences of using the NAS to both store the music files AND run slimserver. Me, I just use it to store files. I bought it to run slimserver, but was not happy with how long it took to scan a large database (there's a good chance you'll feel the same with large amount of files).

Check out
http://www.infrant.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=22
This is the forum regarding the ReadyNAS in which streaming services, like slimserver, are discussed. If you do not scan too often and are happy to browse your music using the remote (never seeing cover art or more than one artist displayed at a time), its probably good enough (and fits the no (other) computer turned on requirement). If you expect to browse your music with web interface or similar (thereby seeing your album art once in a while), using Nokia 770 or laptop etc., you might want the NAS to have more pep in its step.



If I still need to have the computer on even though I have a nas then this is not the route I want to go. I do not have a basement or anywhere like that to keep a spare computer, I usally use a notebook for my daily work. is it immperitive that the music is streamed via the slimserver even if it is on a Nas? are the devices not intelligent enough to acccess the Nas by itself? if not what solution would you recommed?

You do not need NAS and computer on, but I happen to work it this way. Also, the SB3 can connect through SqueezeNetwork to online services and radio without any NAS or computer on.

For you, recommend that you have the slimserver and music both on the same machine. That machine can be a NAS (meaning one that is capable of running slimserver) or a server you build yourself or a plain old PC of some variety or other.

You can use the laptop to view the web interface or run Dr Lovegrove's Moose to control the slimsever, when you like, otheriwse the remote is just fine. Heck, you can even be in a room different to the SB3 and use softsqueeze to access the slimsever from your laptop and listen from the laptop (through powered speakers for a little more grunt). etc.

donglobal
2007-03-31, 12:37
Hi pfarrell, ModelCitizen & Ur[s]uS,

Thanks for all your feedback and help, in a very short space of time I have learnt a lot about the whole media streaming concept. It would see that I cannot really get away from using a PC in some way, shape or form in order to stream my music via my hi-fi system. The thing is I want to make it easy for others as to play music in my house, if it was only for myself then I would have a PC on the entire time without any problems, but I need to think about the other people in the house who i would like to give them access to the music collection, and none of them are technical in any way. Therefore I want to make the entire process of playing music from a large collection as simple as possible.

I would ideally like them to just pick up a Slim-devices remote select a genre, artist or album and press play to listen, if the cover art could also be displayed this would be an added bonus, but its not the end of the world if that does not happen, my priority is to make it easy. I'll take care of all the plumbing, I also do not want to have too many devices or remote controls as this also can become nightmare, am i being to idealistic or is this possible?

donglobal
2007-03-31, 12:43
uS;191687']The ReadyNAS is supposed to be quiet, but I do not think it is quiet enough for living room. It does not need to be in the living room anyway, so wardrobe in spare bedroom is where I have mine.




As described, people have different experiences of using the NAS to both store the music files AND run slimserver. Me, I just use it to store files. I bought it to run slimserver, but was not happy with how long it took to scan a large database (there's a good chance you'll feel the same with large amount of files).

Check out
http://www.infrant.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=22
This is the forum regarding the ReadyNAS in which streaming services, like slimserver, are discussed. If you do not scan too often and are happy to browse your music using the remote (never seeing cover art or more than one artist displayed at a time), its probably good enough (and fits the no (other) computer turned on requirement). If you expect to browse your music with web interface or similar (thereby seeing your album art once in a while), using Nokia 770 or laptop etc., you might want the NAS to have more pep in its step.




You do not need NAS and computer on, but I happen to work it this way. Also, the SB3 can connect through SqueezeNetwork to online services and radio without any NAS or computer on.

For you, recommend that you have the slimserver and music both on the same machine. That machine can be a NAS (meaning one that is capable of running slimserver) or a server you build yourself or a plain old PC of some variety or other.

You can use the laptop to view the web interface or run Dr Lovegrove's Moose to control the slimsever, when you like, otheriwse the remote is just fine. Heck, you can even be in a room different to the SB3 and use softsqueeze to access the slimsever from your laptop and listen from the laptop (through powered speakers for a little more grunt). etc.

'Ur[s]uS;191687']some nice options offered my appreciated for the advice. but we still coming back to using a computer. Man I love seeing cover art and from what you say, veiwing all my stuff via the web interface I'll need some decent horsepower in a nas in ordeer to not drive me mad with frustration. I'm going to start exploring all of these optionsover the next few weeks before taking the plunge and let you know how I get on, maybe you will be able to thorw some more light on some of the solutions I come up with.

brdbointx
2007-03-31, 12:46
Hi Everyone,



I have a huge Mp3 music collection which is currenly on a combination of my hard drive and over over 100 DVD's. I would like to put the entire collection on an Networkstorage device, something with either 1TB or 2tb of space. I like the idea of the slim server being able to help organize my collection and make playlists etc, but what I really want to do is play my collection via my Hi-Fi system without having the computer on.
Is this possible and if so how?


Donald,

This is quite possible now thanks to a beta that is in process and will soon be available. You can join the beta and I can tell you that it is extrememly stable -- so in essence, it is available now.

Let me digress.

Squeezeboxes have the abilty to connect directly to a web-based server called Squeezenetwork. The squeezenetwork hosts a number of unique features - radio streaming presets and services was the primary function. Recently they added Rhapsody direct which is an incredible advancement. You have an entire music store at your command for $9 a month. But while these offer you great music alternatives, they were not YOUR music files.

Last week Slim started the integration of a service called mp3tunes ( www.mp3tunes.com ) which is an online storage server for all of your ripped music. The service from mo3tunes is free and there is a premium service for $35 a year which allows for files over 5 megabytes in size to be uploaded. Both offer unlimited storage capacity.

The process is quite simple. On the mp3tunes side, you download a synching software called Oboesynch. It runs once and catalogs all of the music files on your computer. It then uploads them to your online locker. After the initial synch (it can be a long time - I had 65 gigs of giles and it took about 10 days) the msuci is on their server and available to you in a variety of listening methods. It is also there in case you ever loose your music -- a backup basically. As you accumulate new music, you occassionally choose to run the Oboe synching software and it will add the new songs from your computer to your library.

Squeezenetwork has created a way for the squeezebox to directly connect to the mp3tunes locker. So when you turn on your squeezebox and are on the squeezenetwork server, you will have access to play all of your files. NO COMPUTER!

This addition to the squeezenetwork, IMHO makes it an absolute alternative to even installing a slimserver on any of your computers. With the squeezenetwork you are connecting directly to a server through the internet and are not accessing a computer or a file through your local network. I have found it to be quite good. There are not big lags, re-buffering issues, etc. If your are looking for the value of one little box connected to your hi-fi, then this will be your answer.

I hope that this helps to give you a bit more insight into the two methods of playing music on the squeezebox.

donglobal
2007-03-31, 12:57
[brdbointx;191691]Donald,

This is quite possible now thanks to a beta that is in process and will soon be available. You can join the beta and I can tell you that it is extrememly stable -- so in essence, it is available now.

Let me digress.

Squeezeboxes have the abilty to connect directly to a web-based server called Squeezenetwork. The squeezenetwork hosts a number of unique features - radio streaming presets and services was the primary function. Recently they added Rhapsody direct which is an incredible advancement. You have an entire music store at your command for $9 a month. But while these offer you great music alternatives, they were not YOUR music files.

Last week Slim started the integration of a service called mp3tunes ( www.mp3tunes.com ) which is an online storage server for all of your ripped music. The service from mo3tunes is free and there is a premium service for $35 a year which allows for files over 5 megabytes in size to be uploaded. Both offer unlimited storage capacity.

The process is quite simple. On the mp3tunes side, you download a synching software called Oboesynch. It runs once and catalogs all of the music files on your computer. It then uploads them to your online locker. After the initial synch (it can be a long time - I had 65 gigs of giles and it took about 10 days) the msuci is on their server and available to you in a variety of listening methods. It is also there in case you ever loose your music -- a backup basically. As you accumulate new music, you occassionally choose to run the Oboe synching software and it will add the new songs from your computer to your library.

Squeezenetwork has created a way for the squeezebox to directly connect to the mp3tunes locker. So when you turn on your squeezebox and are on the squeezenetwork server, you will have access to play all of your files. NO COMPUTER!

This addition to the squeezenetwork, IMHO makes it an absolute alternative to even installing a slimserver on any of your computers. With the squeezenetwork you are connecting directly to a server through the internet and are not accessing a computer or a file through your local network. I have found it to be quite good. There are not big lags, re-buffering issues, etc. If your are looking for the value of one little box connected to your hi-fi, then this will be your answer.

I hope that this helps to give you a bit more insight into the two methods of playing music on the squeezebox.[/QUOTE]


QUOTE=brdbointx;191691

This is a good idea and as things process I think it woill be come more popular. I have some reservatons though. For one, you must be connected to the Internet for this to work, second as music tastes and listerning patterns change from day to day it will be a nightmare keeping it pu to date, (you mentoned that it took 10 days to cat. 65GB) man i would have to go on holiday for four weeks to cat. my collection. but saying that its a good idea it you want access to your collection from anywhere in the world. Thanks for the suggestion.

mherger
2007-03-31, 13:21
> But to play your collection of music, you need a computer.

There's some hope at the horizon: mp3tunes.com. Like it or not - they
offer "unlimited" space for your music collection which should be
available through SQN soon. I've uploaded some 32GB of music - took days
to do so. But it seems to be working as an alternative when your own
server is broken or shut down.

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.herger.net/SlimCD - your SlimServer on a CD
http://www.herger.net/slim - AlbumReview, Biography, MusicInfoSCR

adamslim
2007-03-31, 14:31
some nice options offered my appreciated for the advice. but we still coming back to using a computer. Man I love seeing cover art and from what you say, veiwing all my stuff via the web interface I'll need some decent horsepower in a nas in ordeer to not drive me mad with frustration. I'm going to start exploring all of these optionsover the next few weeks before taking the plunge and let you know how I get on, maybe you will be able to thorw some more light on some of the solutions I come up with.

Make your computer near silent:
- Zalman or similar CPU coolers, no fan = silent
- Graphics card with no fan = silent
- fanless PSU = silent
- Samsung Spinpoint HDs = very quiet
- Zalman HD coolers/vibration dampers
- Acoustically damped case

Spend 100 for good effect, and three times that for a PC you hardly notice. Plus most of the stuff survives upgrades.

I do this, on a Win XP machine that is on 24/7. It's generally up for more than a week at a time. Relying on the computer may not be so bad!

Adam

peterw
2007-03-31, 15:48
uS;191660']
Recommendation #1. Hard-wire the NAS to your router, otherwise too much wireless activity bouncing from SB3 to NAS/server and back again.


You mean that *if* you use a NAS device to hold the files and a separate computer to run Slimserver, situate the NAS so it has a 100% wired connection to the PC, right?

My Slimserver host sits on a wireless bridge (802.11g "router" running DD-WRT in "client bridge" mode) and all my Squeezeboxes run wireless -- so whenever I play my own music, the data for each Squeezebox goes wireless twice, once from Slimserver's DD-WRT bridge to the real wireless Access Point, and again from the real AP to the Squeezebox. It works fine. Almost all my music is moderate to high bitrate MP3, but I've also played uncompressed WAV/PCM on this double-hop setup with no problems.

Actually, being able to play uncompressed WAV on a double-hop setup suggests that FLAC would surely be OK even on a 4-hop (NAS -> AP -> Slimserver -> AP -> Squeezebox) setup.

Wired is theoretically better in many ways, but for music wireless is usually perfectly adequate, even in "sub-optimal" multi-hop setups.

-Peter

donglobal
2007-04-01, 06:05
Make your computer near silent:
- Zalman or similar CPU coolers, no fan = silent
- Graphics card with no fan = silent
- fanless PSU = silent
- Samsung Spinpoint HDs = very quiet
- Zalman HD coolers/vibration dampers
- Acoustically damped case


Adam

Hi Adam, that some useful information, I'll certainly look into this.

adhawkins
2007-04-02, 09:16
Hi,

In article <op.tp2lirjakpbrd7 (AT) lappi2 (DOT) jo-sac.ch>,
Michael Herger<slim (AT) herger (DOT) net> wrote:
> There's some hope at the horizon: mp3tunes.com. Like it or not - they
> offer "unlimited" space for your music collection which should be
> available through SQN soon.

Unfortunately, each file has to be less than (currently) 50 Meg. My single
album FLAC files are a lot bigger than that...

Andy

chinablues
2007-04-03, 08:46
What's the big deal about computers? Mine is on 24/7 & is only powered down when I go on vacation. (this for remote possibility of fire risk). It's in a separate room from the stereo, so sound is not an issue. Music goes wirelessly through the walls. Long time ago PC mag ran a report on computer reliability comparing power off at nighters, versus 24/7 ers. There was no real difference in reliability. Typically electronics suffers most on power up, thus leaving it running often results in longer life compared with switching on/off all the time.

PS. I work in the process control industry. We have systems that have been powered up for decades...power on is good!

Dan

donglobal
2007-04-03, 11:30
What's the big deal about computers? Mine is on 24/7 & is only powered down when I go on vacation.
Dan

I understand what you are saying and the whole point of me asking the question in the begining is becasue I didn't want to have a computer on 24/7. I wanted to know what options were open to me using one of the slim devices without having a computer on whenever I needed to play the music. If you look at Sonos their system can play music without the computer being on and connect to external storage devices. I have avoided this option because it is more than twice the price of the Squeezebox. but it looks like I may have to consider it again since there is no alternative from Slim devices.

ModelCitizen
2007-04-03, 11:39
Hi Dong,
I also wonder why people have a problem with 24/7 computer onnage.
MC

aubuti
2007-04-03, 12:36
If you look at Sonos their system can play music without the computer being on and connect to external storage devices. I have avoided this option because it is more than twice the price of the Squeezebox. but it looks like I may have to consider it again since there is no alternative from Slim devices.
Are you sure about Sonos? I honestly don't know, but according to their web site http://www.sonos.com/products/zoneplayers/zp80/features.htm it seems to have the same requirements as a Squeezebox:

Multiple music sources
Sonos accesses music stored on up to 16 PCs, Macs or NAS (Network Attached Storage) devices on your home network, as well as music services and Internet radio stations and even CD or MP3 players connected to a ZonePlayer.

adamslim
2007-04-03, 13:00
Hi Dong,
I also wonder why people have a problem with 24/7 computer onnage.
MC

Arguably your computer will last longer when it is always on - one thing processors are not keen on is thermal shock - suddenly hitting high temperature in just a few seconds. As long as you don't have a serious dual-SLI graphics card setup, it won't be that high in power usage. Give up flying and spend the carbon on convenience!

Adam

donglobal
2007-04-03, 13:30
Are you sure about Sonos? I honestly don't know, but according to their web site http://www.sonos.com/products/zoneplayers/zp80/features.htm it seems to have the same requirements as a Squeezebox:

Multiple music sources
Sonos accesses music stored on up to 16 PCs, Macs or NAS (Network Attached Storage) devices on your home network, as well as music services and Internet radio stations and even CD or MP3 players connected to a ZonePlayer.

Thats right it does everything the Sqeezebox does and more. You can connect a Nas storage device directly into the back of the zoneplayer and access all files, no need for a computer to be on to stream, check it out. As I mentioned before the only reason i have not purchased one in the past is because of the relativley high cost. But looking at the current options available it may be the best bet.

snarlydwarf
2007-04-03, 13:58
Thats right it does everything the Sqeezebox does and more. You can connect a Nas storage device directly into the back of the zoneplayer and access all files, no need for a computer to be on to stream, check it out. As I mentioned before the only reason i have not purchased one in the past is because of the relativley high cost. But looking at the current options available it may be the best bet.

It is almost certainly much cheaper to buy or recycle an old PC into a dedicated slimserver/NAS/whatever.

aubuti
2007-04-03, 14:01
Thats right it does everything the Sqeezebox does and more. You can connect a Nas storage device directly into the back of the zoneplayer and access all files, no need for a computer to be on to stream, check it out. As I mentioned before the only reason i have not purchased one in the past is because of the relativley high cost. But looking at the current options available it may be the best bet.
As has been pointed out several times already in this thread, (1) a NAS *is* a computer, just a highly specialized one, and (2) slimserver runs just fine on several NAS devices, without having another computer on. I have been happily running slimserver on a LinkStation NAS for over a year now, feeding 3 Squeezeboxes around the house. No computer (other than the NAS) required.

So what exactly do you mean by "...everything the Squeezebox does and more", other than the fancy Sonos remote?

Hamlet
2007-04-03, 23:02
Basicly you have two options:

1-Run Slimserver on a NAS, no computer required (altough as some have already told you, a NAS is sort of a computer), and be prepared to accept the limitations of relying on the NAS and whatever processing power it has to run the SS, which is not it's primary function. Of course the NAS must be on 24/7, I see no way around that.

2-Admit to yourself that you are a power-user, and as such, running SS on the NAS won't do. Then accept the idea of running it on a pc. For whatever it's worth, everyone I know runs their pcs 24/7, even if it's just to check e-mail whenever they want.


Good Luck

donglobal
2007-04-04, 11:48
So what exactly do you mean by "...everything the Squeezebox does and more", other than the fancy Sonos remote?

Aubuti what i mean by it does more is you can directly connect a pair of speakers to the Sonos unit and it can connect a NAs storage device or Netstorage device to the unit without it being a NAS and still access the files. You can also connect ohher media devices to it ie; an IPOD. My point here is not to argue the merit of one or the other it is to try to find out as much as possible from a point of useage and everyday maintenace the advantages and disadvantages of the Sqeezebox.

As I mentioned in the begining of this thread my aim was to run the unit without a computer on 24/7. From what everyone has said in this thread it can be done but you need a NAS or a PC on 24/7 to accomplish this. I have also seen in other threads the different types of NAS that are available and what is recommened. I have read threads from installing the latest version of slimserver on a NAS to purchasing a NAS with Slimserver preinstalled, this has all been very useful information and will certainly help me in making my final decision on the prodcut to buy and the type of storage.

After this I have seen messages in this thread about what is the problem of having a pc on 24/7, I have never said there was a problem with this but my preference is not to have one except for when i need to use it.

Th only device I have seen on the market which can hold a candle next to the Sqeezebox are the Sonos products but as I mentioned before they cost twice as much.

aubuti
2007-04-04, 14:08
Aubuti what i mean by it does more is you can directly connect a pair of speakers to the Sonos unit and it can connect a NAs storage device or Netstorage device to the unit without it being a NAS and still access the files.
What is a "Netstorage device" that isn't a NAS?

I appreciate that you're not trying to argue one side or the other, but it seems that you might be expecting something from the Sonos that it's not designed to deliver. The Sonos site clearly says "PC or Mac or NAS", not "PC or Mac or NAS or Netstorage-that's-not-a-NAS". Yes, there's also the option to use an iPod or CD player as the music source, which might appeal to some people.

Note that only the Sonos ZP100 has a built-in amplifier. I expect that most people who have CDs already have an amplifier or receiver. When I made my decision the ZP80 wasn't available yet, and I didn't see the point of buying another amp (or the point of paying 2x the price of a SB). But if you don't have an amp, or want a new amp, then the ZP100 might make sense for you, although there's still the price issue.

Hamlet
2007-04-04, 17:28
Aubuti what i mean by it does more is you can directly connect a pair of speakers to the Sonos unit and it can connect a NAs storage device or Netstorage device to the unit without it being a NAS and still access the files. You can also connect ohher media devices to it ie; an IPOD. My point here is not to argue the merit of one or the other it is to try to find out as much as possible from a point of useage and everyday maintenace the advantages and disadvantages of the Sqeezebox.


You can directly connect speakers to Sonos because you are buying the unit with the built-in amp, if you are happy with that amp and don't want to use any existing equipment as amplification or with amplification I say go for it.

Whatever source you connect that holds your music has to be powered on. I never heard of any NAs storage or Netstorage that is not a NAS, these seem like interchangeable terms - what do you mean by this? What do they say on the Sonus forum? Whatever it is, I'm sure it must be powered on to work. Why do you want to connect an ipod? Won't the music on your ipod already be in your music library? Isn't it easier to play the music from your library without hooking up the ipod?

donglobal
2007-04-05, 12:28
Whatever source you connect that holds your music has to be powered on. I never heard of any NAs storage or Netstorage that is not a NAS, these seem like interchangeable terms - what do you mean by this? What do they say on the Sonus forum? Whatever it is, I'm sure it must be powered on to work. Why do you want to connect an ipod? Won't the music on your ipod already be in your music library? Isn't it easier to play the music from your library without hooking up the ipod?

I listerned to both you and Abuti and today I went out and purchased a Squeezebox, I also purchased a QNAP TS-101 with a brand new 500GB hard drive. Configured the drive no problem, then it came time to install Slimserver and I find out that it cannot be done on a QNAP TS-101 it has to have been pre-installed, now I'm really pissed. As much as I was avoiding purchasing the Sonos ZP80 it looks like this is what I am going to buy at least I won't have to put on (or purchase a NAS server)with Slimserver preinstalled. And I will be able to use the QNAP device as it without installing and wasting time pissing about with a server. Plug and play! thats what I have been after the entire time but it looks like it will only be possible with a Sonos system.

Thats a real pain in the butt, now I'm willing to accpet that I am completly wrong and that I can download the slimserver from this website and install it on my brand spanking new TS-101, but from what I have read so far it is not happening, so tomorrow I'm off to exchange my slimserver for a Sonos ZP80.

donglobal
2007-04-05, 12:35
What is a "Netstorage device" that isn't a NAS?

Note that only the Sonos ZP100 has a built-in amplifier. I expect that most people who have CDs already have an amplifier or receiver. When I made my decision the ZP80 wasn't available yet, and I didn't see the point of buying another amp (or the point of paying 2x the price of a SB). But if you don't have an amp, or want a new amp, then the ZP100 might make sense for you, although there's still the price issue.


Aubuti, let me explain my setup it might throw some light on what I am trying to do. I have a wireless router, I connect my computer and the external storage device (NASS) to it, both wired. I wanted to run the slimserver on the NAS thereby eliminating the need to have my computer on 24/7 (only when required) but still accessible by the Squeezebox, get my drift.

Look at my recent post below and you will see why I am going to forget the slimdevices products completly and go for something which will give me less headache.

jeffmeh
2007-04-05, 13:40
I listerned to both you and Abuti and today I went out and purchased a Squeezebox, I also purchased a QNAP TS-101 with a brand new 500GB hard drive. Configured the drive no problem, then it came time to install Slimserver and I find out that it cannot be done on a QNAP TS-101 it has to have been pre-installed, now I'm really pissed. As much as I was avoiding purchasing the Sonos ZP80 it looks like this is what I am going to buy at least I won't have to put on (or purchase a NAS server)with Slimserver preinstalled. And I will be able to use the QNAP device as it without installing and wasting time pissing about with a server. Plug and play! thats what I have been after the entire time but it looks like it will only be possible with a Sonos system.

Thats a real pain in the butt, now I'm willing to accpet that I am completly wrong and that I can download the slimserver from this website and install it on my brand spanking new TS-101, but from what I have read so far it is not happening, so tomorrow I'm off to exchange my slimserver for a Sonos ZP80.

If you want a Sonos, then go for it. As far as having to have a computer on, isn't the Sonos a computer? If I understand it correctly, the Sonos connected to your router must be on to use it, or if you want any other Sonos players to work. This is not fundamentally different from a computer running SlimServer.

The Sonos is probably easier to set-up, and it certainly has a better remote. The Squeezebox provides as good or better audio quality at a better price.

I can understand your frustration, but it is not clear to me that you should be annoyed with SlimDevices because you bought a NAS that does not have SlimServer installed.

bpa
2007-04-05, 13:53
As I understand it - you can install Slimserver on an clean QNAP - however the Progressive web site with the downloads files seems to be offline today.

See this thread http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=180153 especially post 6.

aubuti
2007-04-05, 15:26
Aubuti, let me explain my setup it might throw some light on what I am trying to do. I have a wireless router, I connect my computer and the external storage device (NASS) to it, both wired. I wanted to run the slimserver on the NAS thereby eliminating the need to have my computer on 24/7 (only when required) but still accessible by the Squeezebox, get my drift.

Look at my recent post below and you will see why I am going to forget the slimdevices products completly and go for something which will give me less headache.
Yes I get your drift, because it's exactly the setup I have. Where you lost me was where you talked about "Netstorage device" that wasn't a NAS. I still don't know what that means, but anyway now you're talking simply about a NAS, and it's very clear.

My slimserver setup: Buffalo LinkStation NAS running slimserver 6.5.1 connected to wireless router, which is connected by wired ethernet to two SB2s and wirelessly to one SB3. The only time a regular computer enters the mix is for ripping and tagging, and copying to the NAS. I had to hack the LinkStation to install slimserver the first time, but since then it has been plug-and-play.

It's unfortunate that you didn't read more carefully, or ask, about the QNAP, but as bpa points out, Progressive AV now sells an installation kit that will put slimserver on QNAP TS-101s that are sold without slimserver pre-installed. Whether you go that route or with the Sonos, good luck to you. Honestly.

donglobal
2007-04-05, 15:35
Aubuti, Jeffmeh and BPA, thanks for the information, I have a night to sleep over my decision to exchange the Squeezebox or not. Thanks for the link for downloading the info for installing the slimserver on the QNap NAS, as soon as the site is up I'll give it a try, if it works then I'll stick with the Squeezebox, As you have mentioned it is a quality option at a much cheaper price.

Taking the unit back will certainly be as a last resort. Abutui the setup you have is exactly what I want to achieve, only use the computer for ripping stuff etc, i didn't want my to have to rely on the computer every time I wanted to play music.

aubuti
2007-04-05, 15:55
Sorry if this is something you are already aware of, but you do realize that the Sonos ZP80 has to be wired to your router, as well as wired to your amp/receiver or powered speakers? If you have everything in the same room, or wired ethernet from your listening room to your router then you'll be fine with the Sonos. But if neither of those apply, then you need a second Sonos player (one wired to the router, the other wired to the amp/receiver, and connected to each other by the Sonos wireless network).

Also, one other difference between the Sonos and the Squeezebox is that because the Squeezebox uses standard networking, you can control the SB from any computer on the network, in addition to controlling it via the remote. With Sonos you *must* use that fancy remote, because it's a non-standard "mesh" network. From what I hear the Sonos mesh network is more reliable than standard wifi, but I've never tested it outside an audio store.

jeffmeh
2007-04-05, 20:07
I wish you luck with the QNAP. Incidentally, I run an Infrant ReadyNAS X6. Infrant makes it pretty easy to install SlimServer, but only those versions of SlimServer that Infrant makes available. Like some other NAS devices, it is pretty sluggish with the SlimServer web UI since 6.5, but it works pretty well all around.

If I had to do it again I would probably build my own headless RAID server, but I am satisfied with the ReadyNAS. I would not give up my Squeezebox, regardless.

gsalton
2007-04-06, 14:08
Holds your music and tv shows. Will not be big enough to hold all of them, but there is a way to prioritize. Only need the computer on when you want something that's not on the hard drive of the apple tv itself.

Downsides include that you will need to have it hooked up to a TV to operate it. But then, you can also watch shows/movies as long as they're ripped to a compatible format.

Won't be quite as flexible as some other options, but will be plug and play.

Of course, it's a computer too - just a quiet one that doesn't look like it (in the same way NAS's are computers).