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View Full Version : Bugs? inaccurate library counts and tag info displayed



MrSinatra
2007-02-06, 23:46
i am hoping someone very familiar with the bug system, (like you kdf), can say or verify if a bug for each of these things exists, or if no bug exists, and if none exists, if one should be filed?

first, i mentioned this in another thread:


on my home SS page it says:

Your music library contains 1640 albums with 20253 songs by 544 artists.

however, on the SS albums page, in gallery view, it says:

1639 albums with 20251 songs by 5663 artists.

meanwhile, winamp which i believe (but am not sure) is the most accurate says:

1635 albums, 20225 songs, 2136 artists

--

so, close on the albums, and pretty close on the songs, but wild differences on the artists, same dir of files.

maybe it counts "album artist" or something, i don't know.

it seems to me there should be a count of files ending in an appropriate extension, to get a steady number. this would at least give it the right number of songs.

so thats one issue, the overall tabulation of songs, albums, and artists.

second:

when you actually drill down to an album, that has only one artist, SS will say something like:


1 album with 12 songs by 5 artists.

1. Two Of Us from Let It Be by Beatles
2. Dig A Pony from Let It Be by Beatles
3. Across The Universe from Let It Be by Beatles
4. I Me Mine from Let It Be by Beatles
5. Dig It from Let It Be by Beatles
6. Let It Be from Let It Be by Beatles
7. Maggie Mae from Let It Be by Beatles
8. I've Got A Feeling from Let It Be by Beatles
9. One After 909 from Let It Be by Beatles
10. The Long And Winding Road from Let It Be by Beatles
11. For You Blue from Let It Be by Beatles
12. Get Back from Let It Be by Beatles

5 artists? its one artist, Beatles. i think i have some CDs where it lists more artists than songs.

third:

SS doesn't always seem to get all the tag info, even after a clear and rescan.

it will truncate some CDs album names, and not others, OF THE SAME BOX SET.

fourth:

it seems to have issues "forgetting" everything, even after a clear and rescan, which may apply to number 3 above.

for instance, i had a CD of 3 songs by ben harper covering marvin gaye's classic, "sexual healing." it was some time ago, but i think for a while, the tags in the file were incorrect and said the artist WAS marvin gaye. i changed it to be correct via winamp.

but SS doesn't care. and here's where it gets weird...

it lists the cd in the right place, following my only other ben harper cd "fight for your mind." but in gallery view it says:


Fight for Your Mind (1995) by Ben Harper

Sexual Healing Singles (1998) by Marvin Gaye

Best Of Berlin 1979-1988 (1988) by Berlin

then, when i click "Marvin Gaye" from gallery view, it takes me to all his CDs i do have, but not the one listed there.

why does gallery view insist then on saying marvin gaye?

if i click "ben harper" under fight for your mind, the sexual healing cd IS there.

so...

do all those issues have bugs filed for them?

and is it possible, that even though i "clear and rescan" it is NOT a FULL clear and rescan?

is there info kept elsewhere? is there possibly info in the SS cache dir? is it safe to delete the entire contents of this dir?

i am not sure if the problem is the mysql DB, or the logic/techniques used to scan and pull info from the files to then store in the mysql db. but something is up.

fifth:

various artists are not handled correctly, at least to some degree.

i'm not sure if the problem here is SS, or the way my music is tagged... but here's an example of what happens that bothers me:

if billy joel has a box set, all four CDs of that should go under billy joel. there shouldn't be a CD that ends up as a various artist cd just b/c one track is billy joel and ray charles. (cd 3)

i don't know if "album artist" as a tag can be used to correct this, or which tag SS uses as the dominant tag...

but i could see a scenario where the one track could say billy joel on the artist tag, and billy joel / ray charles on the album artist tag, (or vice versa, whatever the convention is) and then whichever tag only has one artist listed is the tag SS uses to see if the album is various artists or not.

so thats a fairly long list, but if these don't have bugs filed, i do think they need them. and if they do, i'd like to vote for them.

thx, -mdw

snarlydwarf
2007-02-07, 00:00
Sounds like your tags are seriously messed up.

Multiple tags aare used for Artist: Composer, Performer, AlbumArtist... If you have a song like:
NAME=Let It Be
ALBUM=Beatles Covers
PERFORMER=Some Cover Band
ALBUMARTIST=The Beatles
COMPOSER=John Lennon
COMPOSER=Paul McCartney

Then, yes, that will be filed under the Beatles, Lennon, McCartney and Some Cover Band..... but that's what your tags say.

As for truncatingg album titles: are you using id3v1? Check your tags: id3v2 has no length limit, nor do Vorbis comments in flacs... Again, this sounds like inconsistent tagging.

Did you read the Wiki page on tagging? Use of ALBUMARTIST will let you put the Billy Joel album under Billy Joel, even if you have contributors.

kdf
2007-02-07, 00:43
There may be issues with the count, but it is to be addressed at a
later date. For now, I'll simply point out that a direct comparison
with winamp is not going to work. The counts within slimserver are
done in very different ways, and take into account the database query
response, the current context, and the full variety of
artist/va/band/composer, etc settings.

If the counts bother you, there is a pref to turn them off. The bonus
is that many reports have stated that turning them off speeds things
up. server settings->performance.

-kdf

MrSinatra
2007-02-07, 01:03
i probably should have stated some things...

i ripped ALL my CDs using EAC and lame 3.96 or higher.

i think i might have only used ID3v1.0 or v1.1 on some early CDs, but most have v2.3

i use winamp to edit my tags, it does it quick and nicely, AND it does v1 and v2 together. while some early few seem to not have v2 tags, i have yet to see any disagreement between a v1 and v2 tag.

and i also installed mp3tag, but i haven't used it much. i have yet to see any "messed up" tags in it though, or in winamp. i'm not saying all my tags are perfect, but i just haven't seen anything too crazy in them.


Sounds like your tags are seriously messed up.

Multiple tags aare used for Artist: Composer, Performer, AlbumArtist... If you have a song like:
NAME=Let It Be
ALBUM=Beatles Covers
PERFORMER=Some Cover Band
ALBUMARTIST=The Beatles
COMPOSER=John Lennon
COMPOSER=Paul McCartney

Then, yes, that will be filed under the Beatles, Lennon, McCartney and Some Cover Band..... but that's what your tags say.

ok, so i first looked at this album with winamps 'view file info' feature.

in winamp, it had both v1 and v2 tags that seemingly agreed. composer and album artist were blank on some tracks, not blank on others.

so is that why one CD by one artist will say its by 5 artists?

seems dumb to me... why would composer or any other tag, be conflated with the 'artist' tag?

artist should only relate to the artist tag, not other tags. to relate it to composer is confusing. if you want to know compsers, pull composers.

is there a list of all the various tags that are conflated with artist?


As for truncatingg album titles: are you using id3v1? Check your tags: id3v2 has no length limit, nor do Vorbis comments in flacs... Again, this sounds like inconsistent tagging.

good call, so far it is v2 tags missing. very strange, as there are v2 tags for other CDs of the same box set. but def not a SS issue.


Did you read the Wiki page on tagging? Use of ALBUMARTIST will let you put the Billy Joel album under Billy Joel, even if you have contributors.

cool, i will try that, and let you know if it worked for me.

still, there are a lot of issues i listed in the first post with how SS handles tags and tabulates things that aren't explained in what you said here.

thx, -mdw

MrSinatra
2007-02-07, 01:19
There may be issues with the count, but it is to be addressed at a
later date. For now, I'll simply point out that a direct comparison
with winamp is not going to work. The counts within slimserver are
done in very different ways, and take into account the database query
response, the current context, and the full variety of
artist/va/band/composer, etc settings.

well, beyond the count weirdness where SS disagrees with itself, i find it troubling that other tags are conflated with the artist tag.

so i take it that a later date means 7.0? or do u mean later than that?


If the counts bother you, there is a pref to turn them off. The bonus
is that many reports have stated that turning them off speeds things
up. server settings->performance.

-kdf

good to know, but i would rather track the issue, so i can 1. fix my own tags and problems, and 2. speak to the things SS still does wrongly even after i have my tags under control.

my suggestion would be to allow the user to tell SS what fields to scan for, and which ones to ignore.

in my case, it could ignore composer, publisher, band, original artist, and really anything other than the basics. that kind of functionality might fix a lot of these issues.

maybe you skipped it kdf, but i thought you'd find this issue very interesting:


fourth:

it seems to have issues "forgetting" everything, even after a clear and rescan, which may apply to number 3 above.

for instance, i had a CD of 3 songs by ben harper covering marvin gaye's classic, "sexual healing." it was some time ago, but i think for a while, the tags in the file were incorrect and said the artist WAS marvin gaye. i changed it to be correct via winamp.

but SS doesn't care. and here's where it gets weird...

it lists the cd in the right place, following my only other ben harper cd "fight for your mind." but in gallery view it says:



Fight for Your Mind (1995) by Ben Harper

Sexual Healing Singles (1998) by Marvin Gaye

Best Of Berlin 1979-1988 (1988) by Berlin

then, when i click "Marvin Gaye" from gallery view, it takes me to all his CDs i do have, but not the one listed there.

why does gallery view insist then on saying marvin gaye?

if i click "ben harper" under fight for your mind, the sexual healing cd IS there.

so...

do all those issues have bugs filed for them?

and is it possible, that even though i "clear and rescan" it is NOT a FULL clear and rescan?

is there info kept elsewhere? is there possibly info in the SS cache dir? is it safe to delete the entire contents of this dir?

i am not sure if the problem is the mysql DB, or the logic/techniques used to scan and pull info from the files to then store in the mysql db. but something is up.

i took a closer look in mp3tag, and i saw a field called "band" that said marvin gaye.

my question is, in gallery view, why would band take precedence over 'artist' or 'album artist'?

anyway...

i'm not sure how best to proceed in fixing my tags... i guess i can't count on winamp to do it. in the library view, it shows me things that are not necessarily in the tag itself.

i guess i'll have to become proficient in mp3tag.

my Q then is, is mp3tag the best thing to use for SS, or would i be better off using a different but similar program?

kdf
2007-02-07, 01:48
On 7-Feb-07, at 12:19 AM, MrSinatra wrote:
>
> i'm not sure how best to proceed in fixing my tags... i guess i can't
> count on winamp to do it. in the library view, it shows me things that
> are not necessarily in the tag itself.
>
> i guess i'll have to become proficient in mp3tag.
>
> my Q then is, is mp3tag the best thing to use for SS, or would i be
> better off using a different but similar program?
>
mp3tag is good. Tag&Rename is also good. I use the latter. The
important thing about fixing tags is to also make sure what you don't
want there, isn't there. This means you need something that can
understand rogue tags, extended or little supported tags, and more
importantly APE tags. Slimserver isn't restricted to only standard
tags (IE, compilation tag is important, yet non-standard) and when it
comes to APE tags, it is assumed that if you have them, you want them
used (they are much more flexible than id3). This means they will
override ID3v1 and ID3v2.

It may also help to work with small groups of files, seeing what shows
up in slimserver, to help detect what tags warrant closer inspection.
Then, when you find something that isn't right, please offer up one
issue at a time.

thanks.
-kdf

dcote
2007-02-07, 04:30
i feel i need to chime in here.

just last night after an exasperated number of troubleshooting hours i discovered that of the ~740 artists (my portable mp3 player and slimserver agree on this) i can only "see" around 550. and dropping! at first, i didnt notice this, because it was only a few artists.

but i recently created and saved some massive playlists. guess what? since then, it got REALLY bad.

so i did the counter-check: removed all playlists and rebuilt my database. ALL 747 artists were back! added my playlists, rescanned (not rebuilt) for new playlists - down to 550 artists.

and i can confirm that they dont show up where they are supposed to.

long story, short post - here is my "other post" on the topic with much more detail:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32513

this behaviour is reproduceable, but not predictable.

please, if anyone out knows what is going on, help!

snarlydwarf
2007-02-07, 08:59
i use winamp to edit my tags, it does it quick and nicely, AND it does v1 and v2 together. while some early few seem to not have v2 tags, i have yet to see any disagreement between a v1 and v2 tag.

I never said disagreement: but you have to make sure that album titles are consistent across -all- tracks of the album. "The Greatest Album EVER" and "The Greatest Album Ever" are not the same... even if they are in the same box set.... the only way slimserver knows that they are the same is if they have the same ALBUM tag.

If you use id3v1, then you can expect truncations. Poorly "designed" spec (well, "designed" is used loosely)...



and i also installed mp3tag, but i haven't used it much. i have yet to see any "messed up" tags in it though, or in winamp. i'm not saying all my tags are perfect, but i just haven't seen anything too crazy in them.

It doesn't have to be "too crazy" .. inconsistent will do.



ok, so i first looked at this album with winamps 'view file info' feature.

in winamp, it had both v1 and v2 tags that seemingly agreed. composer and album artist were blank on some tracks, not blank on others.

That sounds very inconsistent. Fix that.



so is that why one CD by one artist will say its by 5 artists?


If there are 5 artists listed, yes.



seems dumb to me... why would composer or any other tag, be conflated with the 'artist' tag?


artist should only relate to the artist tag, not other tags. to relate it to composer is confusing. if you want to know compsers, pull composers.

And if you don't want to know composers, you can uncheck the box on Server Settings/Behavior. It would be nice to have "composers on classical music only," but then you get into "how do you tell if it is classical?"

As for tags: now you know why I spend so much time at Musicbrainz. Getting tags correctly is a non-trivial task, especially when freedb is filled with tons of inconsistent crap.
("The Beatles", "Beatles, The", "BEATLES", and whatever anyone else felt like adding...) if you trust that stuff into your tags, yes, they will be inconsistent and screwed up. (And, yes, even Musicbrainz has typos and annoyances... but at least I can edit them and other people are looking for the same problems.)

totoro
2007-02-07, 09:50
It would be nice to have "composers on classical music only," but then you get into "how do you tell if it is classical?"

Now that would be a cool feature: enable/disable composer by specific genre. It would have to be a little complex, though: it would need to read the genres present in your collection, and then choose to allow/disallow composer for each.

gerph
2007-02-07, 10:22
On 7-Feb-07, at 12:19 AM, MrSinatra wrote:
>
> i'm not sure how best to proceed in fixing my tags... i guess i can't
> count on winamp to do it. in the library view, it shows me things that
> are not necessarily in the tag itself.
>
> i guess i'll have to become proficient in mp3tag.
>
> my Q then is, is mp3tag the best thing to use for SS, or would i be
> better off using a different but similar program?
>
mp3tag is good. Tag&Rename is also good. I use the latter. The important thing about fixing tags is to also make sure what you don't want there, isn't there. This means you need something that can
understand rogue tags, extended or little supported tags, and more importantly APE tags. Slimserver isn't restricted to only standard tags (IE, compilation tag is important, yet non-standard) and when it comes to APE tags, it is assumed that if you have them, you want them used (they are much more flexible than id3). This means they will override ID3v1 and ID3v2.


Simpler would be to just remove the reading of APE tags entirely, then you don't have to worry about removing them from every single file. Fortunately it's pretty easy to do so by just commenting out the line in Slim::Formats::MP3.pm which reads the ape tag (MP3::Info::_parse_ape_tag).

I made a small patch for that, but I don't know whether I ever posted it - possibly because my patch was based around a 7.0 version. http://usenet.gerph.org/SlimServer/id3-and-ape-processing-configuration.diff - which will let you configure the server to process tags in one of a number of ways :

* Ignore all ID3v1 and ID3v2.
* Process only ID3v1.
* Process only ID3v2.
* Process ID3v1 and ID3v2, merging the results.
* Process ID3v2 if present, ID3v1 otherwise.

And an option to process APE tags. It's handy if you happen to have people give you files that are tagged with APE and you just couldn't care less about them, or if you know that you only use ID3v2 and you don't want ID3v1 confusing you (or - as is my case - you only use ID3v1 and don't want ID3v2 confusing you).

kdf
2007-02-07, 11:31
Quoting gerph <gerph.2lnarn1170869101 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:


> Fortunately it's pretty easy to do so by just commenting out the line
> in Slim::Formats::MP3.pm which reads the ape tag
> (MP3::Info::_parse_ape_tag).

This only works for those using slimserver.pl with a perl environment
already installed. This means installing ActivePerl for those using
windows. Use of the .EXE installer will not take on changes made to
Slim::* modules, as these are already packaged inside slim.exe.

-kdf