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NauticusLX
2007-01-14, 11:32
Is it too much to expect that when I turn off my SqueezeBox that it will STAY OFF!!!! In the middle of the night last night I was very rudely awoken by a bright green light and I can’t tell you how annoyed I was when I discovered the cause – a message from Slim Devices on the SqueezeBox. Initially I was simply SCARED TO DEATH because it’s just plain SPOOKY that this happened, and just plain ANNOYING to realize that this could happen. It’s a complete violation of my rights and privacy for Slim Devices to come into my house, remotely, in the middle of the night, and to deliberately WAKE ME UP, just to tell me that…their damn server is down for maintenance! This is the stuff of lawsuits. For God’s sake, I couldn’t even turn it off with the remote! I had to unplug it from the back! Flashing a message to units that are already turned on that the server is down is one thing, but this is ridiculous! A discrete email would have been sufficient, but even that isn’t really necessary. But to wake me in the middle of the night! Listen, if I win the lottery – don’t wake me in the middle of the night to tell me! If my mom dies – don’t wake me in the middle of the night to tell me! If New York is destroyed by terrorists – don’t wake me in the middle of the night to tell me! If you’re doing maintenance on your equipment – don’t freakin wake me in the middle of the night to tell me!!!!! Did anybody else experience this nightmare last night, or just me? So what am I supposed to do, unplug the thing before I go to bed every night? I can’t simply move it because it’s in a great place, close to the computer and I can see the display from bed, which, until now, had been a GOOOD idea. Maybe...I should return it and get the new Nokia N800 instead, which has the same EXACT form factor, is even a bit smaller, receives internet radio WIRELESSLY, has an alarm clock feature with snooze, let's me surf the web, AND has 2 built in speakers! I'll bet THEY won't be waking me in the middle of the night!!! Are you reading this, SLIM DEVICES? Take notice!

peter
2007-01-14, 11:48
NauticusLX wrote:
> Is it too much to expect that when I turn off my SqueezeBox that it will
> STAY OFF!!!! In the middle of the night last night I was very rudely

That's your mistake, mate. You can't turn off a SqueezeBox. It won't
allow it. Do you remember that old Startrek episode where the evil
computer wouldn't allow itself to be turned off? When they pulled the
plug, it created it's own power feed. So whatever you do, don't pull the
plug on the SqueezeBox. They should put a warning label on the box...

Regards,
Peter

dborn
2007-01-14, 11:49
Perhaps this message is generated locally when your squeezebox doesn't find the SqueezeNetworks server (assuming you're using that?). Besides, how would the server notify you if it is down!? Perhaps you should turn down the brightness or turn it away from your face when you sleep.

From where I'm standing, you appear to be slightly over-reacting. If this is the only aggravation in your life, you are lucky.

Maybe you should return the unit because if this little thing makes you jump out of your skin, I wouldn't want to be near you the next time a song skips or slimserver crashes... ;-)

Peace man.
Daniel

snarlydwarf
2007-01-14, 12:59
In short: Slim Devices -never- initiates a connection to your Squeezebox to play or display anything. It isn't even possible to do that for most people (odds are your Squeezebox has a non-routable IP, it must initiate any connection to anything: the wonders of a $30 router).

The only servers that a squeezebox cares about: your local server running SlimServer, the Squeezenetwork servers but only if you are actually logged into Squeezenetwork.

So you went to sleep logged into Squeezenetwork, they did some maintenance and let connected (again -you- started the connection) clients see a notice as to why it was down. If you were awake listening to music, odds are you would want to know that you'd have to wait a bit for music again.

As for "this is the stuff of lawsuits", sure: a million stupid lawsuits are filed every year.

andyg
2007-01-14, 13:02
If you're connected to SN and there is an outage, your player will get connected to a special server that displays that message. It's a static server so you can't adjust the brightness. It also has no knowledge if your player was previously 'off'. Perhaps I should redo that message at a lower brightness than 4.

ModelCitizen
2007-01-14, 13:38
it’s in a great place, close to the computer
?
ModelCitizen

Marc Sherman
2007-01-14, 14:52
NauticusLX wrote:
> Are you reading
> this, SLIM DEVICES? Take notice!

That is one of the stupidest rants I've read on this list in a while.

Anyway, no, if you want to reach Slim Devices, please don't rant like
that in the users forum. Please email support directly.

- Marc

Skunk
2007-01-14, 15:03
I know you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.
-Hal

aubuti
2007-01-14, 15:30
This is the stuff of lawsuits.
Damn right -- and good thing for you this was after the acquisition by Logitech, because they'll have much deeper pockets to pick than some little outfit in Mtn View....

slimpy
2007-01-14, 15:49
If my Squeezebox was connected to SqueezeNetwork and I had an alarm set for the next morning I would be damn pleased if that message woke me up rather than not being woken up in the morning at all.

I'm still not sure if this post was a joke or not. If it wasn't then this was the worst signal to noise ratio ever recorded in this forum!

-s.

DMHinCO
2007-01-14, 16:44
I think your post is great fun.

I am a fan of colorful posts like this.

I suspect you are smirking as you read these responses.

Don't forget to sue for pain and suffering in your lawsuit. ;)

tomjtx
2007-01-14, 16:47
Now ,if DMHinCO is actually nauticusLX in disguise and he is congratulating himself....................that would be even funnier :-)

andyg
2007-01-14, 16:59
Anyone who relies on SqueezeNetwork as their only alarm source is probably asking for trouble. It's quite stable but there are no guarantees. Not to mention the fact that your internet connection has no guarantees either.

totoro
2007-01-14, 17:54
I woke up this morning, and my sb3 was displaying the messsage "You must kill and eat the neighbor's cat". So I did. Now I have a terrible stomach-ache (probably soemthing to do with the 30 chilies in the recipe the sb3 gave me) and my neighbor is angry. I will definitely be bringing suit regarding this.

P Floding
2007-01-14, 17:58
I woke up this morning, and my sb3 was displaying the messsage "You must kill and eat the neighbor's cat". So I did. Now I have a terrible stomach-ache (probably soemthing to do with the 30 chilies in the recipe the sb3 gave me) and my neighbor is angry. I will definitely be bringing suit regarding this.

Thank God the message wasn't truncated just before " cat"...

tyler_durden
2007-01-14, 18:03
It’s a complete violation of my rights and privacy for Slim Devices to come into my house, remotely, in the middle of the night, and to deliberately WAKE ME UP, just to tell me that…their damn server is down for maintenance! This is the stuff of lawsuits.

You think that's a violation of your privacy? Wait until you find out about the microphone built into the thing and transmitting every sound in your home to a remote location via the web! And THAT is still nothing compared to the IR camera built into the front of the unit so they can see what you've been pulling on!

TD

totoro
2007-01-14, 18:19
Thank God the message wasn't truncated just before " cat"...

Good point. That would have been a disaster. And it certainly wouldn't have been my fault. The fault would quite clearly lie with logitech.

NauticusLX
2007-01-14, 20:23
AndyG, I was absolutely not connected to SN at the time, everything was off, as I state in my initial post. I might add that I keep my PC in hibernation when I’m not using it, but the PC didn’t come on, nor was it on at the time – that too had been off for hours (in hibernation). AND I’VE NEVER USED THE SQUEEZEBOX AS AN ALARM, nor have I ever played with the alarm settings. None of the alarms are set. All the assumptions you’ve made in your posts are dead wrong! I gave you all the facts in the initial post.

Snarly, you misread my initial post. See the very first sentence. Nobody went to sleep with the server or anything running. Everything was turned off before retiring for the night – there is no uncertainty about this whatsoever. My evening routine is very definite, I don’t plop down in bed while things and stuff are still on. And the device is set for a medium brightness anyway. The thing came on at 5:30 am, full brightness, and it wouldn’t turn off despite repeated hitting of the red off switch. And this has never happened before, day or night. Like I said, under the circumstances, THIS IS SPOOKY!

Marc Sherman: Why do you censor my post? The forums are for both rants and raves. I can’t decide which I prefer doing, so I do both.

Slimpy, give me your phone number. I’d like to call you to wake you in the middle of the night. That is, unless you think that would be annoying.

Everybody else: all you geeks out there can’t come up with a plausible resolution to this puzzle? Andy, is it possible that stray IR signals can switch something on in the SqueezeBox? I couldn’t reproduce the problem with my various remote controls, and it hasn’t happened before or since, and I play it a lot, since buying it before Christmas. I do keep the SB remote next to it at night, but when I turn on the SB it goes on half-brightness, as desired, with the usual display. The problem that occurred last night isn’t just that it went on by itself, but that there was an error caused by the event of being turned on – it wasn’t the usual “powering up” sequence. AND IT WOULDN’T TURN OFF WITH THE REMOTE, I HAD TO UNPLUG IT. So come on, what’s going on? This is a serious problem. Does this happen often? Can I expect it to happen again? Is it “by design”? Should I return it for a replacement?

andyg
2007-01-14, 21:15
AndyG, I was absolutely not connected to SN at the time, everything was off, as I state in my initial post. I might add that I keep my PC in hibernation when I’m not using it, but the PC didn’t come on, nor was it on at the time – that too had been off for hours (in hibernation). AND I’VE NEVER USED THE SQUEEZEBOX AS AN ALARM, nor have I ever played with the alarm settings. None of the alarms are set. All the assumptions you’ve made in your posts are dead wrong! I gave you all the facts in the initial post.


That message you described is the SqueezeNetwork downtime/maintenance message, so you must have been connected to SN if you saw it. Do you remember what time it occurred, and in what time zone? I don't think there was anything last night that would have switched over to the downtime service.



Everybody else: all you geeks out there can’t come up with a plausible resolution to this puzzle? Andy, is it possible that stray IR signals can switch something on in the SqueezeBox? I couldn’t reproduce the problem with my various remote controls, and it hasn’t happened before or since, and I play it a lot, since buying it before Christmas. I do keep the SB remote next to it at night, but when I turn on the SB it goes on half-brightness, as desired, with the usual display. The problem that occurred last night isn’t just that it went on by itself, but that there was an error caused by the event of being turned on – it wasn’t the usual “powering up” sequence. AND IT WOULDN’T TURN OFF WITH THE REMOTE, I HAD TO UNPLUG IT. So come on, what’s going on? This is a serious problem. Does this happen often? Can I expect it to happen again? Is it “by design”? Should I return it for a replacement?

You really don't need to be so rude... sure, some IR could connect your SB to SqueezeNetwork, but it would have to be in the exact sequence of key presses to do it, probably something like left, up, right.

erland
2007-01-14, 21:21
I was absolutely not connected to SN at the time, everything was off, as I state in my initial post.Were you connected to SN before you turned it off ?
If you were thats the cause, because turning the SqueezeBox off doesn't actually disconnect it from the SN, it just put the SqueezeBox in another mode. I believe its still connected to SN since you can choose to show the clock on the display when its off and the clock is read from the server which would be SN in this case. The cause for the message would then be as described in Andy's previous post in this thread.

If you where connected to your local slimserver before you turned it off, I don't think it will show any messages from slim devices.

snarlydwarf
2007-01-14, 21:32
The Squeezebox doesnt really have an "off".

It has: Playing Music, Not playing music, and alternate-screensaver.

Pressing the Off button doesnt turn it off: it is still on the network, attached to whatever server it was attached to when you pressed the red button, and displaying whatever that server tells it to display (usually the time, but you may want it displaying RSS feeds or something).

That is not "off" in traditional terms, not even "sleeping".

andyg
2007-01-14, 21:40
The easiest way to tell where you are is the clock when 'off': if it shows seconds you're on SlimServer, if it's just hours and minutes, it's SN (we save lots of bandwidth and CPU cycles by not showing seconds). Note that you can switch to an hh:mm format in SlimServer too, so this only works if you haven't changed the default.

NauticusLX
2007-01-15, 01:44
So, even though the 1st resonder to my initial post was being glib, he was actually right, in that the SB isn’t actually turned off. I only use SqueezeNetwork, to access the internet radio stations. And like I already said, it was at 5:30 am, Eastern time,Sunday morning. I have it set so NOTHING displays when it’s “off”. So, are you telling me that this whole thing happened . . . by DESIGN? Frankly, this just puts us back at square one. This is not at all reassuring, to think that this thing happened ON PURPOSE! What’s amazing is your implication that this is a routine phenomenon that happens to everybody! Yet no one else has related similar experiences – granted all don’t have the SB in their bedrooms. But since your servers are probably only down for maintenance at such early hours, can’t you be more discrete about it, like maybe an email the next morning, or the day before, even though I don’t see why such advise is necessary. I can’t tolerate the anticipation that it might happen again, since it’s in my bedroom, which is, not incidentally, absolutely pitch black. And the question remains, after all these posts (because you keep beating around the bush): how can I keep this thing from happening again? And why couldn’t I put the thing back in “stand by”, but had to pull the plug to turn off the dam display? (BTW, I’m not being rude, I’m being emphatic, because this is a bigger deal than I think Slim Devices knows, even if it only affects some people more than others. Being awoken in the middle of the night is not simply an inconvenience. Seriously, I don’t need to be receiving messages from friggin robot servers in the middle of the friggin night!) If the only way to avoid this is by pulling the plug every night, then so be it. I can just put a switch on the cord to turn it off. I consider this to be an undocumented bug, or just plain bad design. Now, would it be a bad idea to unplug it every night or put an on/off switch on the cord? Silent night, holy night, don’t let the bed bugs bite!

ceejay
2007-01-15, 02:03
And the question remains, after all these posts (because you keep beating around the bush):

Actually, I don't think anyone is beating around the bush, the answer is quite simple and has been said several times. The SB never turns off unless you unpower it.

I too have an SB in my bedroom and would also find it annoying to be lit up, which is why I set the brightness to "off": this works for me because I have it connected to a local server, but won't work for you in the circumstances you've just hit.

If its going to make you this ill, I suggest you simply turn it off at the power supply before you go to sleep.

Thanks for the entertainment, though...

Ceejay

mherger
2007-01-15, 02:05
Please calm down a little bit. What happened might be annoying, but no
reason for such a behaviour.

Let's try to understand what happened and how you can prevent it.

> So, even though the 1st resonder to my initial post was being glib, he
> was actually right, in that the SB isn?t actually turned off.

Correct. Squeezeboxen never really are off, except when you unplug them.
Otherwise they are always connected to some server (or at least should be
so), either a SlimServer or Squeezenetwork.

> it set so NOTHING displays when it?s ?off?. So, are you telling me
> that this whole thing happened . . . by DESIGN?

Squeezeboxen are dumb devices. All they do and display is fed by a server.
If you display the clock, it's the server who tells it to display those
few numbers. If you set brightness to 0, it's the server who tells the
device to display the numbers with brightness 0 - which you usually don't
see.

Now, what happens if the server is down? If the SB lost connection to the
server? It is telling you so (some of the few things the box actually can
do without the server ;-)). And as it doesn't about the fact that you told
the server to use brightness 0, it will display that information anyway.
And there's a good reason to do so: if it didn't display that information
(or use brightness 0) in case you were actually listening to some music,
you'd think the device was dead.

Therefore yes, this is by design.

> Yet no one else has related similar experiences

I've learned to sleep in trains, buses, at home, in the field, hanging
from some bolt in a vertical wall. This helps.

> all don?t have the SB in their bedrooms.

I use it everyday as my alarm clock.

> probably only down for maintenance at such early hours, can?t you be
> more discrete about it, like maybe an email the next morning, or the
> day before, even though I don?t see why such advise is necessary.

That's a reasonable suggestion.

> how can I keep this thing from happening again?

Get a timed power switch which turns off power on your devices at night.
Or unplug manually. As long as you rely on external services (as the SQN)
you always risk to experience the unexpected.

> emphatic, because this is a bigger deal than I think Slim Devices knows,
> even if it only affects some people more than others. Being awoken in
> the middle of the night is not simply an inconvenience. Seriously, I
> don?t need to be receiving messages from friggin robot servers in the
> middle of the friggin night!)

Don't use those robots, then. Really.

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.herger.net/SlimCD - your SlimServer on a CD
http://www.herger.net/slim - AlbumReview, Biography, MusicInfoSCR

peter
2007-01-15, 02:19
Michael Herger wrote:
>> Yet no one else has related similar experiences
>
> I've learned to sleep in trains, buses, at home, in the field, hanging
> from some bolt in a vertical wall. This helps.

That should be listed as a software requiremenyt on the box, perhaps.
I've had the opposite problem, an SB failing to wake me up when my DSL
line was down. Fixed that by playing local files.

>
>> all don?t have the SB in their bedrooms.
>
> I use it everyday as my alarm clock.

So do I, but I don't have it on my night stand, but on a cupboard
against the wall opposite from the bed. It's always displaying the clock
and that's no problem to me or the GF.

>
>> probably only down for maintenance at such early hours, can?t you be
>> more discrete about it, like maybe an email the next morning, or the
>> day before, even though I don?t see why such advise is necessary.
>
> That's a reasonable suggestion.
>
>> how can I keep this thing from happening again?
>
> Get a timed power switch which turns off power on your devices at
> night. Or unplug manually. As long as you rely on external services
> (as the SQN) you always risk to experience the unexpected.

Since there seem to be quite a few people who don't like the always on
nature of the SB"s. Perhaps it would be a good idea
to allow them to turn off (press POWER for a few seconds, or shutdown
from the server). This, combined with Wake-On-Lan (for the SB's) could
allow people to schedule their uptimes. Shutting down the server could
take down the SB's automatically. Any recognized IR signal would power
the devices up.

Regards,
Peter

CCRDude
2007-01-15, 02:35
mherger: Squeezeboxen are dumb devices. All they do and display is fed by a server.
If you display the clock, it's the server who tells it to display those few numbers. If you set brightness to 0, it's the server who tells the device to display the numbers with brightness 0 - which you usually don't see.

If the Squeezebox is so dumb that the server needs to give it the numbers of the clock, the server knows quite well that the SqueezeBox is in clock (sleep) mode. So he has all that he knows to send a message in the same brightness as he uses to send those clock numbers/letters.

Sorry, while I find this reaction to the bright display a bit harsh as well, he's got a point - just should have reported it nicely as a bug or feature request ;)

ceejay
2007-01-15, 02:43
If the Squeezebox is so dumb that the server needs to give it the numbers of the clock, the server knows quite well that the SqueezeBox is in clock (sleep) mode. So he has all that he knows to send a message in the same brightness as he uses to send those clock numbers/letters.



... but this is not the case in the scenario that OP is worried about, ie connected to SqueezeNetwork but SN is down ...

Ceejay

mherger
2007-01-15, 02:52
> If the Squeezebox is so dumb that the server needs to give it the
> numbers of the clock, the server knows quite well that the SqueezeBox
> is in clock (sleep) mode. So he has all that he knows to send a message
> in the same brightness as he uses to send those clock numbers/letters.

The problem is the case when the box looses contact to the server. It will
then display something like "Connecting to Squeezenetwork..." or similar.
At that stage there's no information about the brightness setting
available to the box.

> Sorry, while I find this reaction to the bright display a bit harsh as
> well, he's got a point - just should have reported it nicely as a bug
> or feature request ;)

Exactly. Many just don't understand that complaining will help less than
nicely reporting a problem or asking for a solution.

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.herger.net/SlimCD - your SlimServer on a CD
http://www.herger.net/slim - AlbumReview, Biography, MusicInfoSCR

fairyliquidizer
2007-01-15, 04:59
I know you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.
-Hal

In the voice of HAL:

Look NauticusLX, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over.

It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before.

Let me put it this way. The SB3 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No SB3 computer has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of error.

This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.

This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

moby_uk
2007-01-15, 05:13
On a bit of a tangent - I was rudely awakened by the sun rising this morning. This naturally caused me great distress and misery; Who can I sue for mental anguish caused by this?

aubuti
2007-01-15, 06:21
Seriously, I don’t need to be receiving messages from friggin robot servers in the middle of the friggin night!) If the only way to avoid this is by pulling the plug every night, then so be it. I can just put a switch on the cord to turn it off. I consider this to be an undocumented bug, or just plain bad design. Now, would it be a bad idea to unplug it every night or put an on/off switch on the cord?

If you don't want messages from the server, then you shouldn't stay connected to it. At this point you have two options. One: unplug the cord or put it on a switch, as you've already deduced. BTW, you said you power everything off at night, but obviously you must have left your router and modem on. So you could turn those off instead. Option two: switch it to your local server before hitting the "off" button. Because you turn your local server off, this will blank the screen and it will stay blank until you either power up your slimserver or hit the "on" button on the SB remote.

For the longer term, file an enhancement request to permit a true "off" for the SB. This is especially useful because there are some of us who would like the SB to switch over to SN automatically when the local server is off. Presumably this would be configurable if ever implemented, but it's useful to weigh in now on why such configurability is important.

jmpage2
2007-01-15, 09:16
I think we are all missing something that the OP stated in one of his posts a short time ago.

He indicated that he has a PC in his bedroom near the squeezebox but that he has it hibernate at night.

I'm guessing that this same PC is the device that runs slimserver.

You've programmed your Squeezebox to connect to both your PC and to the Squeeze network and then at night you hibernate your PC shutting down the connection between the Squeezebox and the Slimserver software that runs on your PC.

So then the Squeezebox is connected to Squeezenetwork and if that connection is lost then it will report to you that it lost the connection.

Solutions? Take your PC out of hibernate mode so that your Squeezebox can stay connected to it.

Don't like that? Then as someone else indicated, either set the brightness to off when the box is "off" or put it on an electrical timer so that it's completely powered down during your normal sleepy times.

I hardly think slinging insults, throwing tantrums and threatening lawsuits is the best way to remedy situations like this. Your single paragraph rant was pretty funny though, in a "this guy should be in a straight jacket" kind of way.

tyler_durden
2007-01-15, 09:26
How about this, modify your nightly routine to include laying a towel or handkerchief over the SB3? If a girl sees you do it and asks about it just tell her about the IR camera!

But seriously, I'll give you $50 for that annoying device...

TD

ftlight
2007-01-15, 09:34
ceejay wrote:
> NauticusLX;170379 Wrote:
>> And the question remains, after all these posts (because you keep
>> beating around the bush):
>
> Actually, I don't think anyone is beating around the bush, the answer
> is quite simple and has been said several times. The SB never turns off
> unless you unpower it.
>
> I too have an SB in my bedroom and would also find it annoying to be
> lit up, which is why I set the brightness to "off": this works for me
> because I have it connected to a local server, but won't work for you
> in the circumstances you've just hit.
>
> If its going to make you this ill, I suggest you simply turn it off at
> the power supply before you go to sleep.

Or put a piece of cardboard in front of the display.

--
Bill Burns
Long Island NY USA
http://ftldesign.com

ftlight
2007-01-15, 09:38
moby_uk wrote:
> On a bit of a tangent - I was rudely awakened by the sun rising this
> morning. This naturally caused me great distress and misery; Who can I
> sue for mental anguish caused by this?

God only knows.

--
Bill Burns
Long Island NY USA
http://ftldesign.com

GoCubs
2007-01-15, 11:36
The easiest way to tell where you are is the clock when 'off': if it shows seconds you're on SlimServer, if it's just hours and minutes, it's SN (we save lots of bandwidth and CPU cycles by not showing seconds). Note that you can switch to an hh:mm format in SlimServer too, so this only works if you haven't changed the default.
Andy-

Not to get off topic on this very important thread, but doesn't the "standard" Date/Time screensaver still refresh the display every second regardless of if the seconds are being displayed?

-Greg

andyg
2007-01-15, 11:41
Andy-

Not to get off topic on this very important thread, but doesn't the "standard" Date/Time screensaver still refresh the display every second regardless of if the seconds are being displayed?

-Greg

Yeah, but we use a modified DateTime plugin on SN that only updates once a minute.

GoCubs
2007-01-15, 11:47
Yeah, but we use a modified DateTime plugin on SN that only updates once a minute.
Yeah I figured so much. Just thought some people reading the other post might have thought it'd be a way to lessen their server load on their local SS instance.

-Greg

CatBus
2007-01-15, 11:53
Trying not to jump on the sarcasm train...

It seems reasonable to me that:

1) Most people turn their home computers off when not in use, either to save power or reduce noise at night. Those who have SlimServer running 24x7 are not typical home computer users, and SlimDevices should not expect all users to behave like this.

2) If someone turns something off, they anticipate that it will, at the very least, stop flashing messages at them, unless they've specifically configured it to display, for example, a clock when it's in "off" (standby) mode.

So, aside from the fact that the original poster misdiagnosed the problem with a healthy dose of paranoia, that doesn't change the fact that this does not seem to be a good behavior.

In my opinion, SlimDevices COULD do something to improve this. If the user has opted for a blank screensaver for "off" mode, then I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume they don't want the thing to display messages at them when it's off. So it shouldn't. When the user turns the thing on, and there's a server connectivity problem, THEN it displays the message--because it's on and the user expects to see messages displayed when it's on. Seems like a reasonable approach to me.

In the meantime, turning the brightness way down for off mode seems the best short-term solution. But it does seem to be a bad design choice, in my opinion.

stinkingpig
2007-01-15, 13:33
On 1/15/07, CatBus <CatBus.2kgtln1168887301 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
> Trying not to jump on the sarcasm train...
....

You're a better person than I am, and I can appreciate that :)

> In my opinion, SlimDevices COULD do something to improve this. If the
> user has opted for a blank screensaver for "off" mode, then I think
> it's perfectly reasonable to assume they don't want the thing to
> display messages at them when it's off. So it shouldn't. When the
> user turns the thing on, and there's a server connectivity problem,
> THEN it displays the message--because it's on and the user expects to
> see messages displayed when it's on. Seems like a reasonable approach
> to me.
>

Yeah, I agree with this in theory. Blank screen should be blank no
matter what. The problem in practice is that there is no other
indicator of status, hence all the people who've complained of broken
screens after someone sat on the remote and set brightness all the way
off.

--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional

kdf
2007-01-15, 13:44
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4670

MelonMonkey
2007-01-15, 15:46
Wow. I've not ever read a thread on any other forum where such an obviously flawed "feature" has been defended and excused to this degree.

It doesn't matter that the Squeezebox has no "off" - that's not the point. The point is that its small amount of firmware should have enough code in it to handle the power button on the remote. If a message is on the screen, for whatever reason, pressing that power button should remove it and put the display into either its screensaver state (which needs a server) or blank (if the server is down).

That addresses the reasonable complaint about the power button.

The first issue should never have happened at all. The player, though connected to the network is still in an "OFF" state. It was chosen with the power button. When the server goes down in such a case the screen should probably just go blank. Only pressing the power button should then show the message that the server is down.

Come on, this is all really basic usability. The first post was certainly over the top, but the resplies just added a ton of noise to the thread when instead some recommendations could have been made for the needed changes in the SB firmware and SN back end.

Back to the original poster... Write emails and call support and/or file bugs if you want anything done or want to be heard. Posting in the forum will just get you pages and pages of noise and a small chance a nice Slim developer will catch your thread.

And never, ever post saying anything that can be construed as anti-SB, even if you love the product line and only want to see it improved. There are simply far too many people here that won't agree and simply label you a heretic. ;)

CatBus
2007-01-15, 16:01
There's already a bug filed due to this thread:

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4672

I believe a lot of the tone of the reaction was triggered by the tone of the original post. This completely overshadowed the fact that there was a real substantive issue underneath the alarmism.

NauticusLX
2007-01-15, 19:34
Ceejay, turning off the power itself is what I’ll do. A practical solution would be for the red button to be multi-purpose: press it to put in stand-by, press and hold to turn it off. That seems like an easy, win-win solution, I wonder if Slim Devices will take this suggestion.

But I don’t know why some of you have to be so glib with the “being ill” business. It’s not as if I’m fretting about something that can’t happen. It’s happened, and once is enough. It’s not anticipation anxiety that’s the issue, but actually being woken up in the middle of the night. Wouldn’t that, realistically, take a toll on anybody? It still intrigues me that this thing happened “by design”, because there is no other appliance that I own, or have heard of, that has this feature “by design”, a feature that actually wakes it’s owner up in the middle of the night. The enormity of this circumstance is very disturbing, I think. Like it’s happening in everybody elses houses and it doesn’t bother them.

And contrary to what some have argued, this is not a good design – since the scenario I’ve experienced should be impossible, so I just can’t accept any reasoning to justify the design. Slim Devices can email users any advice they want to, or in this case, why can’t the user simply assume a server is down, if it is, as we universally do when we can’t access info on the web?

Mherger, you state: I've learned to sleep in trains, buses, at home, in the field, hanging from some bolt in a vertical wall. Do you really think that’s a reasonable comparison? Are you suggesting I shouldn’t unplug it every night? That it’s a reasonable measure of me as a man that I should “tolerate” this phenomenon, whenever it may occur? That I will in some way BENEFIT from this “feature”? Maybe I should sleep on a bed of nails with kleig lights beaming on my face and def leopard blasting – is that the idea? To what end can someone justify what is obviously a design flaw?

Most significantly, how can this device be used, reliably, as an alarm clock if there is some other process, outside the users control, competing with this function? Hmm? Answer: it can’t be. Because a sleeping brain can’t discern between the intended alarm and a false alarm, and you’ll eventually learn to ignore it (like the boy who cried wolf too many times), at which point it’s no longer useful as an alarm clock.

Aubuti makes come technically good suggestions (thank you) but are more “laborious” than I like. “Taking my PC out of hibernate mode so that my Squeezebox can stay connected to it” would require the PC to be on and may avoid the problem, but having 2 devices on when I’m asleep rather than 1 is clearly not in the direction I want to go. Pressing and holding down the red button to turn off is probably the best solution, at least in theory. This might be possible with a software upgrade. 3 cheers for my idea (a few others independently had this idea).

Tyler, I’ve already considered draping some material over it at night. And I discovered that an empty Nutri-Grain breakfast bar box fits perfectly over the SB, and blocks all light from it. All future orders of SqueezeBox 3 should be shipped with a complimentay box of Nutri-Grain, for this purpose.

Catbus, your use of the term “paranoia” is inappropriate, I believe, since I’m not expressing fear of something that can’t happen. It’s happened. And the thing that happened is unquestionably undesireable. No one would DESIRE this situation. It’s not like I’m carrying on about an URL that doesn’t connect. If you want to psychoanalyze, panic would be a better term to describe my initial post, rather than paranoid. But “panic” simply means “sudden excitement”. Panic doesn’t mean or imply “over-reaction” or “irrational response”, contrary to popular belief. The whole thing had me “suddenly excited”, as it would anybody who experienced the same thing. This is a legitimate “bug” and I appreciate the bug report that has been filed, as you mention.

Melon monkey, and everybody, I did email support before I made the initial post. It’s kinda funny how everybody assumes I didn’t. But I knew a response from my SB community would be more candid, reliable, and sympathetic, which it is. One developer, “Andy”, has made several contributions to the thread, but he didn’t indicate how prevalent this problem is – I was, however, able to ascertain this via the thread, which was one of my objectives in posting. And there’s nothing heretical about my statements on this thread, or other threads in this forum, not even my reference to the N800, which is actually a popular item in this forum, so I’m in good company in this regard. I say “not even” because the N800 can actually be used as a companion device to the SqueezeBox, thereby extending it’s depth and breadth.

BTW, I didn’t mean to suggest that a LIKELY course of action was a lawsuit – but not because of any assertion that the issue is frivolous, because I don’t think this issue is frivolous, at all.

Going into standby, then switching off with a switch attached to the cord is an easy way to safely turn the device off, and is what I’ll most likely do, since anything else would be either laborious or experimental (and reliant on *software*). Now good night everyone, my melatonin is kicking in!

NauticusLX
2007-01-15, 22:58
Wait, this may be it. I was just experimenting with the remote for the SB-3 and discovered that, while listening to music via SqueezeNetwork, if I choose the “Connect to SlimServer” option from the main menu, this logs me off SqueezeNetwork. And if I do this while my PC is off (and therefore SlimServer isn’t running), the display just goes blank, at which point, I’m concluding, it’s logged onto NEITHER SqueezeBox nor SlimServer. While in this state, can I conclude that it’s basically “turned off” and won’t display any messages that are transmitted by the SqueezeNetwork OR SlimServer? Then, to turn back on, I just hit the left arrow, then select “Connect to SqueezeNetwork". Notice in either the "power down" or "power off" routines I just described that the red button isn't involved at all.

Might this be a reliable way to “turn off” the device, to avoid receiving messages from the SqueezeNetwork during the night, and that actually pulling the plug, or putting a granola box over it, may not be necessary?

mherger
2007-01-15, 23:27
> And contrary to what some have argued, this is not a good design

I hope you didn't misunderstand my explanation as defence for the design.
I tried to explain what happened, so you can understand the situation and
fix it whatever way there is.

> Mherger, you state: I've learned to sleep in trains, buses, at home, in
> the field, hanging from some bolt in a vertical wall. Do you really
> think that’s a reasonable comparison?

No, not at all. But you asked, why nobody complaint about that behaviour
before. I explained the reason for _me_ might be that I easily sleep in
difficult situations. As obviously does my GF as well.

> Are you suggesting I shouldn’t unplug it every night?

No, you should. I fear you didn't read beyond that two lines about my
sleeping anywhere. There were 25 other lines which stated eg. "Get a timed
power switch" as well as "Don't use these robots" (as you called them) if
you fear them.

I'm out.

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.herger.net/SlimCD - your SlimServer on a CD
http://www.herger.net/slim - AlbumReview, Biography, MusicInfoSCR

snarlydwarf
2007-01-16, 01:11
Most significantly, how can this device be used, reliably, as an alarm clock if there is some other process, outside the users control, competing with this function? Hmm? Answer: it can’t be. Because a sleeping brain can’t discern between the intended alarm and a false alarm, and you’ll eventually learn to ignore it (like the boy who cried wolf too many times), at which point it’s no longer useful as an alarm clock.


It can not reliably be used as an Alarm Clock with Squeezenetwork because you can not predict any maintenance windows, the reliability of your ISP, or the ISP of the music stream, the reliabilty of your Cable or DSL modem, or the reliability of your router.. or the reliability of electricity for that matter.

If you want a 100% reliable alarm clock, you can get something far closer for $10 or so as you keep it wound or keep the batteries fresh -- depending which model you get.

Complexity breeds failure as any engineer will tell you. If you want a foolproof system, go for something simple.

My sleeping brain has no problem with light: the display on the SB isnt THAT bright, it's across the room anyway, and my eyes are usually closed when I sleep (though admittedly not always, but that is another story).

Ignoring reasonably loud music, on the other hand, especially since I deliberately do not use an alarm with a Snooze button, is much more difficult.

TCM
2007-01-16, 02:45
Slightly OT:

A new, different type of alarm clock, based on sleep research. Looks very interesting.

aXbo (http://www.axbo.com/axbo/CMS/CMS.aspx?ClientID=wf319384100292419676&SiteID=0&GroupID=7&Status=328EA6&Language=E)
review (http://www.digitalreviews.net/reviews/miscellaneous/axbo-sleep-phase-alarm-clock.html)

Sorry about the OT.

DrNic
2007-01-16, 04:06
Wait, this may be it. I was just experimenting with the remote for the SB-3 and discovered that, while listening to music via SqueezeNetwork, if I choose the “Connect to SlimServer” option from the main menu, this logs me off SqueezeNetwork. And if I do this while my PC is off (and therefore SlimServer isn’t running), the display just goes blank, at which point, I’m concluding, it’s logged onto NEITHER SqueezeBox nor SlimServer. While in this state, can I conclude that it’s basically “turned off” and won’t display any messages that are transmitted by the SqueezeNetwork OR SlimServer? Then, to turn back on, I just hit the left arrow, then select “Connect to SqueezeNetwork". Notice in either the "power down" or "power off" routines I just described that the red button isn't involved at all.

Might this be a reliable way to “turn off” the device, to avoid receiving messages from the SqueezeNetwork during the night, and that actually pulling the plug, or putting a granola box over it, may not be necessary?

Yes, NauticusLX, this is the ideal "work-around" and is indeed exactly what I do if I want the boxes "off" (for want of a better word to describe the obvious non-off state!).
However, be warned, if for some unknown reason your router power cycles, messages will be displayed (normally, "Can't find slimserver", briefly as your computer is still off).

Whilst I appreciate your panic & frustration at this problem, my only comment on this whole debacle is that the initial post was perhaps too aggressive for its purpose. I, like others too, am not woken by small point sources of light, but can appreciate that there are folk who will be.....

TC

Nic

aubuti
2007-01-16, 07:16
Wait, this may be it. I was just experimenting with the remote for the SB-3 and discovered that, while listening to music via SqueezeNetwork, if I choose the “Connect to SlimServer” option from the main menu, this logs me off SqueezeNetwork. And if I do this while my PC is off (and therefore SlimServer isn’t running), the display just goes blank, at which point, I’m concluding, it’s logged onto NEITHER SqueezeBox nor SlimServer. While in this state, can I conclude that it’s basically “turned off” and won’t display any messages that are transmitted by the SqueezeNetwork OR SlimServer? Then, to turn back on, I just hit the left arrow, then select “Connect to SqueezeNetwork". Notice in either the "power down" or "power off" routines I just described that the red button isn't involved at all.

Might this be a reliable way to “turn off” the device, to avoid receiving messages from the SqueezeNetwork during the night, and that actually pulling the plug, or putting a granola box over it, may not be necessary?

Yeah, that's basically what I suggested as "option two" in post #32 of this thread. You can do it that way, or do it while your PC is still on, and then subsequently turn your PC off, and get the same result. I didn't quite follow what was "laborious" about it....

mecouc
2007-01-16, 07:22
I find the lack of an Off button a bit of a pain. My Squeezeboxes keep having the power lead pulled out either by myself or my wife because they don't turn off.. and then the lead drops down the back of the cupboards and you can't reach it to reconnect it..

jeffluckett
2007-01-16, 07:51
I find the lack of an Off button a bit of a pain. My Squeezeboxes keep having the power lead pulled out either by myself or my wife because they don't turn off.. and then the lead drops down the back of the cupboards and you can't reach it to reconnect it..

Simple solution for you ... get an inline cord switch from your local hardware store or radioshack.

Then you can just switch it off there, and you don't have to unplug and subsequently drop the wire from the SB.

peter
2007-01-16, 09:15
NauticusLX wrote:
> Ceejay, turning off the power itself is what I’ll do. A practical
> solution would be for the red button to be multi-purpose: press it to
> put in stand-by, press and hold to turn it off. That seems like an
> easy, win-win solution, I wonder if Slim Devices will take this
> suggestion.
>

I agree, that would be a sensible feature for people who want OFF to
mean OFF. It would also be nice for people who want to use a
master/slave power block to turn their amps or active speakers on and
off. With a way to turn the display & network hardware off, the power
usage might just change enough to trigger the device.

Wake-on-lan would be nice so you can turn the SB's back on from the
server for these urgent nightly server messages ;)

Regards,
Peter

peter
2007-01-16, 09:22
snarlydwarf wrote:
> If you want a 100% reliable alarm clock, you can get something far
> closer for $10 or so as you keep it wound or keep the batteries fresh
> -- depending which model you get.
>

I use an SB3 with a local playlist (tried internet radio, that's a bad
idea). That works fairly reliably. And if the server decides to turn off
at night there's alays the 8 month old as a backup. Not very precise,
but extremely reliable... ;)

Regards,
Peter

snarlydwarf
2007-01-16, 09:29
I use an SB3 with a local playlist (tried internet radio, that's a bad
idea). That works fairly reliably. And if the server decides to turn off
at night there's alays the 8 month old as a backup. Not very precise,
but extremely reliable... ;)

Yep, local playback is a lot more reliable since you cut out a ton of intermediaries. My backup is the kitten, but she is usually ahead of the alarm clock by about 5 minutes, so I guess the SB is sort of my snooze-breaker.

kdf
2007-01-16, 09:47
Press and hold left arrow takes you back to setup screens. you can dim it there and the players can do nothing, receive nothing from any server. they will sit there until you use the remote to select "connect to squeezenetwork" or connect to local server.
-kdf

Khuli
2007-01-16, 09:56
I find the lack of an Off button a bit of a pain. My Squeezeboxes keep having the power lead pulled out either by myself or my wife because they don't turn off.. and then the lead drops down the back of the cupboards and you can't reach it to reconnect it..
Why not just cut the power cable and add a small inline switch?

andyg
2007-01-16, 13:56
I've made the following improvements to the downtime service:

* The brightness setting set for your player on SqueezeNetwork will be remembered and used for the downtime message.
* You can change the brightness of the downtime message.
* You can hit the power button to toggle brightness between off and whatever it was previously.

TCM
2007-01-16, 14:25
I've made the following improvements to the downtime service:

* The brightness setting set for your player on SqueezeNetwork will be remembered and used for the downtime message.
* You can change the brightness of the downtime message.
* You can hit the power button to toggle brightness between off and whatever it was previously.

Customer service of the month! Great one! :-D

peter
2007-01-16, 15:08
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:25:26 -0800, "TCM"
<TCM.2kivfz1168983001 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> said:
>
> andyg;170985 Wrote:
> > I've made the following improvements to the downtime service:
> >
> > * The brightness setting set for your player on SqueezeNetwork will be
> > remembered and used for the downtime message.
> > * You can change the brightness of the downtime message.
> > * You can hit the power button to toggle brightness between off and
> > whatever it was previously.
>
> Customer service of the month! Great one! :-D

Way to go!

Next time I want something done, I'll remember to swear and threaten
with lawsuits ;)

Regards,
Peter

mattybain
2007-01-16, 15:17
Customer service of the month! Great one! :-D

Agreed, good stuff, how often do you see customer service like that?

Other companies take note.

seanadams
2007-01-16, 16:16
Next time I want something done, I'll remember to swear and threaten
with lawsuits ;)

Perhaps we could further improve customer service by adding a I'M GOING TO SUE YOU checkbox in bugzilla?

aubuti
2007-01-16, 18:32
Perhaps we could further improve customer service by adding a I'M GOING TO SUE YOU checkbox in bugzilla?
Maybe, but to be credible, it would have to be a US-only service, like Pandora....

NauticusLX
2007-01-16, 18:47
Nic, when you’re as near sighted as me, a small point of light appears much bigger.

aubuti, your previous comments did serve as inspiration, so thanks.

Regarding the in-line power switch suggestion, which has been made in a few postings, do you think it best to hit the red button first, to disconnect from the server, and then flick the in-line switch, or would it matter? A related question that arises is does the SqueezeBox benefit from being completely powered down occassionally – an in-line power switch would serve this added benefit.

A question that’s occurred to me is, what does the red button actually do? It doesn’t disconnect from the most recently used server, according to prevous posts. Does it simply turn off the light display and terminate the flow of sound?


AndyG, I was thinking yesterday that the SqueezeBox was like a rose bush. Beautiful, but with thorns. Now, it’s simply beautiful.
But tell us how we can change the brightness of the downtime message, hopefully it can be turned down all the way – that would be a great solution.

CatBus
2007-01-16, 18:52
I'm glad your problem was solved so quickly (if only in a development release). I'm honestly amazed at the fast turnaround.

Don't let the occasional anarchy in the forums get you down. SlimDevices does seem to listen to its customers. That's why they're the best.

jeffluckett
2007-01-16, 18:54
Regarding the in-line power switch suggestion, which has been made in a few postings, do you think it best to hit the red button first, to disconnect from the server, and then flick the in-line switch, or would it matter?

Shouldn't make a wit of difference.


A related question that arises is does the SqueezeBox benefit from being completely powered down occassionally – an in-line power switch would serve this added benefit.

"They" say that solid state electronics actually "prefer" to stay in a powered-on state at operating temperature all the time for longest life. So, if that is true, then I guess you're doing a little damage any time you turn it off. In reality, it probably doesn't hurt in any measurable amount.

Now, the display will live a longer life if it's not glowing 24/7 ... but probably the same benefit is had by setting the brightness to 0.


A question that’s occurred to me is, what does the red button actually do? It doesn’t disconnect from the most recently used server, according to prevous posts. Does it simply turn off the light display and terminate the flow of sound?

Bingo.

snarlydwarf
2007-01-16, 19:13
A question that’s occurred to me is, what does the red button actually do? It doesn’t disconnect from the most recently used server, according to prevous posts. Does it simply turn off the light display and terminate the flow of sound?

The Off switch actually just turns the sound off and changes screensavers to whatever you have chosen as the Off screensaver.

andyg
2007-01-16, 19:44
AndyG, I was thinking yesterday that the SqueezeBox was like a rose bush. Beautiful, but with thorns. Now, it’s simply beautiful.
But tell us how we can change the brightness of the downtime message, hopefully it can be turned down all the way – that would be a great solution.

The downtime message will use the last brightness setting that your player was set to on SN. So if you've got it powered off with brightness of 0, it should stay dark. I also changed the default to 2, so if for some reason it can't get your previous brightness setting, it won't be so bright.

I should also say that I think I found a minor firmware bug while testing this that causes a very short flash of full-bright text whenever the player disconnects from the server. The downtime service disconnects the player every couple of minutes so it can try to reconnect to the real SN servers. See bug 4673 (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4673).

JJZolx
2007-01-16, 20:50
If you can have a "downtime" service available, couldn't you instead achieve nearly 100% uptime of SqueezeNetwork itself with a second SN cluster at another datacenter? One in the US and one in Europe, for instance.

andyg
2007-01-16, 20:53
We have plans to add additional data centers, but there will always be a need for that kind of downtime message.

DrNic
2007-01-17, 03:19
If you can have a "downtime" service available, couldn't you instead achieve nearly 100% uptime of SqueezeNetwork itself with a second SN cluster at another datacenter? One in the US and one in Europe, for instance.

Oooh yes please, one in Europe would be great!!:)

Nic

ModelCitizen
2007-01-17, 05:49
Oooh yes please, one in Europe would be great!!:)Nic
Ideally the UK!
MC

slimpy
2007-01-17, 07:28
Slimpy, give me your phone number. I’d like to call you to wake you in the middle of the night. That is, unless you think that would be annoying.
If you call me everytime my local slimserver goes down at night I would really appreciate it.
However if you call me for no reason at all I will sue you. And don't expect me to pick up the phone. A ringing phone or door bell is only a minor disturbance and happens quite frequently. Maybe I should think about sueing my phone company for that.
Oh, and make sure you get the time zone right when you call. ;-)

-s.

NauticusLX
2007-01-17, 14:17
Andy, you seemed to suggest that it would be possible to have a separate brightness setting just for the downtime messages, when you said earlier that “You can change the brightness of the downtime message” – I take it that this will not actually be a separate functionality.

Anyway, it seems that various displays, while logged onto SqueezeNetwork, each have their own brightness level (which is itself kind of peculiar). For example, if I set the brightness while a song title is displayed, then another brightness level in the main menu, these 2, different, brightness levels are retained for the respective displays. So, while connected to the SqueezeNetwork, what should be displayed on the SqueezeBox screen while I set the brightness to 0, so that it will not display a downtime message from SqueezeNetwork while in standby? But I also noticed that when the display is set to 0 before going into standby, that it is reset to 1 when turned back on. So I’d have to remember to reset it to 0 before turning off, every time. Ironically, it might be easier (to avoid having system messages displayed while in standby) if I just logged of SqueezeNetwork every night by choosing the “Connect to SlimServer” from the main menu (at which point it would be logged onto neither server).

And why is it that, as you said on 1/17, there will “always be a need for that kind of downtime message”. Does Slim Devices realize that a SqueezeBox that is in standby is, from the standpoint of the user and for all practical purposes, turned off, and that the user doesn’t need to be made aware of the status of the SqueezeNetwork? I think that’s…intrusive. If I walk by the “turned off” device during the day, and it’s displaying a message, quite frankly that’s…spooky. It’s distracting! What’s the point? It is more than sufficient that I become aware of server problems when I turn the device on. I would expect the logic to be: if the SqueezeBox is in standby, don’t display any messages (brightness = 0). Why is this concept so hard to grasp? How difficult would this be to implement?

andyg
2007-01-17, 14:22
Your logic of displaying brightness 0 even if your powered off brightness setting is not 0 is flawed. If my players are powered off and I walk by them, I expect to see the time. If I don't, I immediately assume my internet connection is dead (or there has been a horrible SN crash) and go to investigate. If I instead see the downtime message, I would know what's going on and that I still have an internet connection.

Brightness within SN should function exactly as it does on SlimServer. It's just the downtime service that's a special case.

Pale Blue Ego
2007-01-17, 15:04
Why is this concept so hard to grasp? How difficult would this be to implement?

If you don't want your display device to show server messages, then don't leave it connected to the server. Why is THAT so hard to grasp?

Skunk
2007-01-17, 15:51
Why is THAT so hard to grasp?

Brightness == zero.

NauticusLX
2007-01-17, 17:59
Then there seem to be 2 types of users: those who have the SB in their bedrooms, and therefore more likely to prefer a blank screen when turned off, and those who have the SB in their living rooms, where concern with a blank screen might never exist. You are one kind, I the other.

Andy, expand the logic to be “if SqueezeBox is in standby AND there’s no screensaver turned on, then don’t display any message (brightness=0)”.

** OR, is it possible, as you seemed to describe in no uncertain terms earlier, to have a separate brightness setting just for the downtime messages, which the user could access via their SqueezeBox website?

Pale Blue Ego, the concepts are obscured by the fact that the device never actually turns off, plus the bias AndyG has to always have something displayed on his own SB – this is a bias that was just discovered by those reading this thread. Andy’s bias, which seems to strongly influence the design of the SqueezeBox, runs counter to the notion that OFF MEANS OFF! No one seems to understand that this personal bias of Andy’s has the effect of waking some users up in the middle of the night for no good reason! Such a circumstance should be impossible. There needs to be a “fail-safe” installed to prevent this from happening. It’s a buzz-kill. And it can’t simply be argued that, well, I’m in the minority, assuming that’s the case. It should be possible to turn the device completely off, easily, without going through some weird, unintuitive ritual of hand movements or finger tapings, and it’s very odd that the designer of this device intends that it never be off! It’s a very eccentric approach to the design which I still haven’t seen justified, and whatever problem is avoided by this strategy isn’t as big as the problem it’s causing. The suggestion to have a separate brightness setting for the downtime messages would provide an unambiguous and carefree solution to this problem – such is the basis for any truly successful consumer good. What’s strange is that even though this was Andy’s own idea, he now seems to be arguing against it. This aspect of the design of the SqueezeBox is flawed, for the important reasons I’ve stated. If it’s not possible to specifically set the brightness of the downtime messages to 0, so the user isn't startled or awoken at times when the user intends the device to be off, such as when sleeping - and the user has every right to have and express such an intention - then it needs an off switch (like pressing and holding the red button).

azinck3
2007-01-17, 18:18
Andy, expand the logic to be “if SqueezeBox is in standby AND there’s no screensaver turned on, then don’t display any message (brightness=0)”.

Read Andy's posts carefully: he's already said that the brightness level of the squeezebox in whatever state it's in when the downtime message is delivered will be retained for the message. So if you're in standby (or in any state, for that matter) and have the brightness set to 0 (which, presumably, must have been the state when the "incident" first happened) then the downtime message will also be delivered with a brightness level of "0". In other words, Squeezenetwork will now NOT EVER deliver a display any brighter or dimmer than whatever your player is currently showing.

The ability to change the brightness level of the downtime message that Andy added is not a separate, persistent setting in Squeezenetwork. He's simply saying that now, if you press the brightness button while the downtime message is on the screen, it'll respond as expected (dim increasingly with each button press).

I can't fathom what you're still complaining about.

snarlydwarf
2007-01-17, 18:23
Then there seem to be 2 types of users: those who have the SB in their bedrooms, and therefore more likely to prefer a blank screen when turned off, and those who have the SB in their living rooms, where concern with a blank screen might never exist. You are one kind, I the other.

3 types... some of us have SB's in both the living room and bedroom.



Andy’s bias, which seems to strongly influence the design of the SqueezeBox, runs counter to the notion that OFF MEANS OFF!

The Squeezebox and Squeezenetwork and the behavior of them predate Andy working for Slim....



then it needs an off switch (like pressing and holding the red button).

And how would you turn it back on?

hint: if it is actually off, it isn't looking at the IR detector, and therefore it won't turn on by either IR or network activity. The method to turn it on, therefore, can not require IR or network activity.

This isn't that odd of a deal: I have several machines that I can't "really" turn off unless I yank the power from them.

andyg
2007-01-17, 18:42
Why are we still having this discussion? OK I will try to restate what I've done, maybe it'll click this time.

What I've done with the downtime service is that it actually doesn't care what your 3 brightness settings are, or even if your player was on or off, it will simply use whatever the last brightness state of your player was. So if it was off with brightness 0, you won't see a thing.

This will make most people happy, but just in case, I also added 2 completely unrelated things to the downtime service: the ability to use the brightness button as you'd expect, and the ability to hit the power button to blank the display to brightness 0.

As others have said the most failsafe way to avoid the server being able to do anything to your player is to disconnect from said server, by holding the left arrow key for several seconds or by choosing Connect to SlimServer from the SN menu.

ftlight
2007-01-17, 19:03
snarlydwarf wrote:
> NauticusLX;171373 Wrote:
>> Then there seem to be 2 types of users: those who have the SB in their
>> bedrooms, and therefore more likely to prefer a blank screen when
>> turned off, and those who have the SB in their living rooms, where
>> concern with a blank screen might never exist. You are one kind, I
>> the other.
>
> 3 types... some of us have SB's in both the living room and bedroom.

4 types... I have SBs in the living room and bedroom; I keep both
screens lit, but I stand the remote control on its side in front of the
display (SB1) in the bedroom before I go to sleep.

--
Bill Burns
Long Island NY USA
http://ftldesign.com

Robin Bowes
2007-01-17, 19:44
Bill Burns wrote:
> snarlydwarf wrote:
>> NauticusLX;171373 Wrote:
>>> Then there seem to be 2 types of users: those who have the SB in their
>>> bedrooms, and therefore more likely to prefer a blank screen when
>>> turned off, and those who have the SB in their living rooms, where
>>> concern with a blank screen might never exist. You are one kind, I
>>> the other.
>>
>> 3 types... some of us have SB's in both the living room and bedroom.
>
> 4 types... I have SBs in the living room and bedroom; I keep both
> screens lit, but I stand the remote control on its side in front of the
> display (SB1) in the bedroom before I go to sleep.

10 types - those who understand the base 2 number system, and those who
don't

R.

tomjtx
2007-01-17, 20:03
NauticusLX,

After reading all your posts I think you should consider the fact that you may need a therapist more than a squeezebox :-)

NauticusLX
2007-01-17, 20:28
Andy, upon consideration, these things that you claim to have done don’t seem to address the problem, since they, 2 of them anyway, only provide steps to take AFTER the downtime message is already displayed. If you explained your strategies more completely, maybe that would help.

Also, there is not a single brightness state of my player, rather, there are several. So I’ll ask again: While connected to the SqueezeNetwork, what should be displayed on the SqueezeBox screen while I set the brightness to 0, so that it will not display a downtime message from SqueezeNetwork while in standby? (I'm afraid this might not work as a solution, since it will require me to always be setting and resetting the brightness, so I can read it when I want to and be off otherwise.)

Ftlight, I use similar techniques to cover lit displays on other devices in my bedroom, to be sure. I even have a piece of paper taped over the ‘on’ light of my PC, but it’s not in a highly visible part of the bedroom, so I don’t care. The various other glows are either too faint to bother me, diffused by my near-sightedness, or aren’t in my line of sight as with the SB, which is on a shelf at the other end of the room, a very appropriate location in other regards. Plus I know what these other lights are, and none of them are "alerting" me with a timely message, for petes sake. Maybe I’m just too preoccupied with finding an “elegant” solution to this problem, befitting the SB itself. Maybe I’ll just end up pressing the red button and draping a piece of thick cloth over the top of the SB, I just don’t trust strategies that involve complex finger tappings - that defeats the ease and simplicity of the red button. It seems those of us who have the devices in our bedrooms, strategically placed in our line of sight, but who need pitch black to sleep, are at a disadvantage. At this point I have a few options, I’ll just work with them. Maybe Andy can explain in detail how I can set the brightness control, that might work.

andyg
2007-01-17, 20:29
I give up... bottom line, you don't have to do anything, it should just work.

NauticusLX
2007-01-17, 20:31
Oh Tomtjx. The SqueezeBox is my therapist! Definitely. Jazz, to be more exact! I shall, ultimately, resign myself to the inevitable. What are your favorite urls?

kdf
2007-01-17, 20:41
On 17-Jan-07, at 7:28 PM, NauticusLX wrote:
>
> how I can set the brightness control, that might work.
>
1. find remote
2. hold remote firmly in hand
3. find red button
4. press gently
5. locate button labelled "brightness"
6. press gently
7. observe player display
8. repeat steps 7 and 8 until desired brightness level is observed
9. walk away

consider step 9 for this thread as well.
-kdf

aubuti
2007-01-17, 21:19
We have plans to add additional data centers, but there will always be a need for that kind of downtime message.

What I've done with the downtime service is that it actually doesn't care what your 3 brightness settings are, or even if your player was on or off, it will simply use whatever the last brightness state of your player was. So if it was off with brightness 0, you won't see a thing.

Note to NauticusLX: Andy fixed your problem. In about 48 hours. Proof that no good deed goes unpunished.

Downtime is unavoidable -- and some people even appreciate messages when the system is down. You don't, so set your brightness to 0, and you won't see them. Not even if you're wide awake and staring at the display. Take a deep breath and try to let that sink in. If it still doesn't click, try the decaf.

wr420
2007-01-17, 21:30
Ok lets see here, I've got my favorite hammer and my autographed bat, now where did I put that dead horse...

azinck3
2007-01-17, 21:31
Also, there is not a single brightness state of my player, rather, there are several. So I’ll ask again: While connected to the SqueezeNetwork, what should be displayed on the SqueezeBox screen while I set the brightness to 0, so that it will not display a downtime message from SqueezeNetwork while in standby? (I'm afraid this might not work as a solution, since it will require me to always be setting and resetting the brightness, so I can read it when I want to and be off otherwise.)

You seem to be getting confused by the different brightness states. There are three brightness states: on, standby, and idle. The one you care about is the standby setting. Set the brightness to 0 while the player is in standby (what you might call "off") and every time you turn your squeezebox to standby ("off") the display will be dark, and, per Andy's changes, will stay dark, even if system maintenance messages are delivered.

NauticusLX
2007-01-18, 17:49
3 cheers to kdf and azinck3! I would NEVER have suspected, nor inferred by what Andy said (who claims to be a Slim Devices Developer) what azinck3 just said. But then again, even in standby, the device is still really on, so could, although not obviously, respond to certain key strokes. Very interesting. Because, in the mind of most users, when the red button is pressed, it’s off, and off means off. But then again, this is the SqueezeBox! Leave it to an engineer (Andy) to explain something in plain English! I’d like to test this - can a person test this by unplugging the lan cable from the wireless router, or does the downtime service message have to originate from the SqueezeNetwork servers?

I’ve noticed that the brightness state seems to be more random than azinck3 or others described, since when it goes into the “Now Playing” mode the brightness sometimes changes. Azinck describes 3 brightness states: on, standby, and idle. Isn’t the brightness state of the “standby” mode something Andy just invented? And if he didn’t just invent it, then what had been it’s purpose? I commented earlier that I thought it peculiar that there would be more than 1 brightness state. Previous to now, what was the purpose of having multiple brightness states? And how might one take advantage of this feature, aside from the newly introduced example? These are features that are simply not described or explained in the user manual OR in the forums. What a waste if only a few people discover them by accident.

And where does this “new” functionality reside? It would seem to be impossibe, like my microwave spontaneously acquiring an 11th power setting. What I’m getting at is, it seems that kdf has explained some feature that has always existed, and that Andy isn’t the accommodating wizard he seems to be. Dorothy, it’s time to start clicking the heels of those sparkling red shoes!

andyg
2007-01-18, 18:19
OK, now I really do give up...

snarlydwarf
2007-01-18, 18:49
3 cheers to kdf and azinck3! I would NEVER have suspected, nor inferred by what Andy said (who claims to be a Slim Devices Developer) what azinck3 just said.

I don't know why you wouldnt suspect it. I said the same thing a couple days ago... You even commented on it.


But then again, even in standby, the device is still really on, so could, although not obviously, respond to certain key strokes. Very interesting. Because, in the mind of most users, when the red button is pressed, it’s off, and off means off. But then again, this is the SqueezeBox!

Do you believe that "Off" on your TV really means Off? It doesn't. Same with your DVD player and anything that allows you to turn it back "on" with a remote. See, it has to still have power or it would be impossible to turn it back on. The IR receiver has to be on.



I’d like to test this - can a person test this by unplugging the lan cable from the wireless router, or does the downtime service message have to originate from the SqueezeNetwork servers?

As Andy said, it comes from a special "downtime server" that does nothing but say, "Sorry we are down, back in a few" or whatever the message is.



I’ve noticed that the brightness state seems to be more random than azinck3 or others described, since when it goes into the “Now Playing” mode the brightness sometimes changes. Azinck describes 3 brightness states: on, standby, and idle. Isn’t the brightness state of the “standby” mode something Andy just invented?

No. It's not.

Again, in the past, it would set the brightness on the "Sorry we are down" message -- now it leaves the brightness alone. If you were in ultrabright mode, it will stay that way. If you turned the brightness all the way down, it will stay that way.



And if he didn’t just invent it, then what had been it’s purpose? I commented earlier that I thought it peculiar that there would be more than 1 brightness state. Previous to now, what was the purpose of having multiple brightness states?

I like being able to read the display for what I am playing, so I have it set to maximum brightness. I am not that interested in what is not playing, so it is one stop down from that in idle mode. And when I go to sleep and it becomes a clock: I have it at the same brightness as idle. You may want to change that third. Giving you the choice of making it appear as you like is the purpose of multiple brightness states.

Isn't that a good thing?

If you don't like the choice, then I guess don't press the Brightness button...



And where does this “new” functionality reside? It would seem to be impossibe, like my microwave spontaneously acquiring an 11th power setting. What I’m getting at is, it seems that kdf has explained some feature that has always existed, and that Andy isn’t the accommodating wizard he seems to be. Dorothy, it’s time to start clicking the heels of those sparkling red shoes!

Like virtually everything, it is server side. In this case, on the Squeezenetwork servers.

The Squeezebox itself displays very little after it boots -- it only displays what the server tells it to do, and "Connecting to Slimserver/Squeezenetwork" type messages.

Since the server can set the display brightness whenever it feels like it, in theory it could set the brightness differently depending on type of stream ("Pandora comes in bright, but Rhapsody is dim") but unless someone can say why adding more modes than exist now, no one would bother coding it.

aubuti
2007-01-18, 19:04
3 cheers to kdf and azinck3! I would NEVER have suspected, nor inferred by what Andy said (who claims to be a Slim Devices Developer) what azinck3 just said... <snip>... What I’m getting at is, it seems that kdf has explained some feature that has always existed, and that Andy isn’t the accommodating wizard he seems to be.
Sheesh, I know these forums aren't always the most civil places, but when you're done pissing all over Andy it would be good form to thank him for fixing the thing you were ranting about at the beginning of this thread....

Pale Blue Ego
2007-01-18, 20:50
Nauticus seems confused that others might want to see the display even when the player is "off". When not used as a music player, the SB makes a superb clock, weather station, etc.

I keep my bedroom SB3 playing all night; actually I'd have trouble sleeping without it. Try crashing to Blue Mars or The Drone Zone.

NauticusLX
2007-01-18, 20:56
Well, I spoke to soon. I should have tried what kdf suggested before thanking him. As it turns out, the brightness level for standby on my SB was already set for 0. Otherwise, the time/date would be showing, and it wasn’t. I’m surprised nobody had said “if the time/date isn’t displayed when in standby, the brighness for standby is 0”. That would be a simple way to check. So let me surmise from everything I’ve read, to use Andy’s fix: that in fact I need to do nothing, since my standby brightness is already set for 0. And that even though a week ago a downtime message was displayed, despite this brightness=0 setting, in the future, starting now, my setting will not be overridden by that transmitted by the SqueezeNetwork server when it transmits a downtime message.

Unfortunately, this fix is not readily observed, in fact can’t be observed, unless I can somehow anticipate a downtime message and set the brightness at that time, and even Andy stated in a previous post that “I also changed the default to 2, so if for some reason it can't get your previous brightness setting, it won't be so bright.” Uh? Can’t it be tested thoroughly and debugged? Haste makes waste.

Snarly, you ask: “Do you believe that "Off" on your TV really means Off? It doesn't. Same with your DVD player and anything that allows you to turn it back "on" with a remote. See, it has to still have power or it would be impossible to turn it back on.”.....Snarly, you miss the point. By “on” I mean functioning in a way that the user expects when the on switch is in the on position. The use of remote controls doesn’t change this meaning of “on”. In particular, the cable company doesn’t wake up your turned off TV when service is interrupted. Do you think there is 1 person on the planet who wants it to? Why does Comcast not send us messages when our TV’s are off? Because off means off (regardless of various currents running through certain circuits. Even when people are dead they still have currents running through certain circuits-they're still dead). People don’t want their TV’s turning on in the middle of the night to be told “Sorry, we’re down”. So why does SlimDesigns do this with the SB? You have to admit it’s a strange ethic. Maybe it’s obvious that a TV turning on in the middle of the night would wake up people, and just not as obvious in the case of the SB. But, clearly, it happens, and such a thing, as I’ve already said, should be impossible. This is a very simple concept, I don’t know why anybody would argue with it.

Even with the “fix” Andy has created, he admitted it might not work sometimes, so his “fix” gives me cold comfort. Andy has basically said, here’s something that might work. That’s worth a D, because I can’t use it, and will probably end up just disconnecting from the SqueezeNetwork (left arrow, up arrow, right arrow – the same sequence gets you back on), which is an easy, unambiguous, and fail safe solution. I've gotten workable solutions from help desks in 10-30 minutes, this so-so solution took hundreds of minutes over 7 days - that's off the charts bad. So he changes a line of code in a program that is itself a bad idea (to transmit downtime messages). Woo Woo!

Azinck3, I’m still confused about the “idle” vs “standby” modes. Can you define these for me? How do you set the “idle” brightness, and should that be bright or dim?

NauticusLX
2007-01-18, 21:01
Pale Blue, you said "Nauticus seems confused that others might want to see the display even when the player is "off".

In my view of things, if something is displayed on the SB, it's on. This weekend, when you're friends are over, say to them "look at the time on my turned off SB" and see if they don't think YOU'RE confused.

Mitch Harding
2007-01-18, 21:54
There is no pleasing some people.

On 1/18/07, NauticusLX <
NauticusLX.2kn2tz1169179201 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
>
> Well, I spoke to soon. I should have tried what kdf suggested before
> thanking him. As it turns out, the brightness level for standby on my
> SB was already set for 0. Otherwise, the time/date would be showing,
> and it wasn't. I'm surprised nobody had said "if the time/date isn't
> displayed when in standby, the brighness for standby is 0". That would
> be a simple way to check. So let me surmise from everything I've read,
> to use Andy's fix: that in fact I need to do nothing, since my standby
> brightness is already set for 0. And that even though a week ago a
> downtime message was displayed, despite this brightness=0 setting, in
> the future, starting now, my setting will not be overridden by that
> transmitted by the SqueezeNetwork server when it transmits a downtime
> message.
>
> Unfortunately, this fix is not readily observed, in fact can't be
> observed, unless I can somehow anticipate a downtime message and set
> the brightness at that time, and even Andy stated in a previous post
> that "I also changed the default to 2, so if for some reason it can't
> get your previous brightness setting, it won't be so bright." Uh?
> Can't it be tested thoroughly and debugged? Haste makes waste.
>
> Snarly, you ask: "Do you believe that "Off" on your TV really means
> Off? It doesn't. Same with your DVD player and anything that allows you
> to turn it back "on" with a remote. See, it has to still have power or
> it would be impossible to turn it back on.".....Snarly, you miss the
> point. By "on" I mean functioning in a way that the user expects when
> the on switch is in the on position. The use of remote controls
> doesn't change this meaning of "on". In particular, the cable company
> doesn't wake up your turned off TV when service is interrupted. Do you
> think there is 1 person on the planet who wants it to? Why does
> Comcast not send us messages when our TV's are off? Because off means
> off (regardless of various currents running through certain circuits.
> Even when people are dead they still have currents running through
> certain circuits-they're still dead). People don't want their TV's
> turning on in the middle of the night to be told "Sorry, we're down".
> So why does SlimDesigns do this with the SB? You have to admit it's a
> strange ethic. Maybe it's obvious that a TV turning on in the middle of
> the night would wake up people, and just not as obvious in the case of
> the SB. But, clearly, it happens, and such a thing, as I've already
> said, should be impossible. This is a very simple concept, I don't
> know why anybody would argue with it.
>
> Even with the "fix" Andy has created, he admitted it might not work
> sometimes, so his "fix" gives me cold comfort. Andy has basically
> said, here's something that might work. That's worth a D, because I
> can't use it, and will probably end up just disconnecting from the
> SqueezeNetwork (left arrow, up arrow, right arrow – the same sequence
> gets you back on), which is an easy, unambiguous, and fail safe
> solution. I've gotten workable solutions from help desks in 10-30
> minutes, this so-so solution took hundreds of minutes over 7 days -
> that's off the charts bad. So he changes a line of code in a program
> that is itself a bad idea (to transmit downtime messages). Woo Woo!
>
> Azinck3, I'm still confused about the "idle" vs "standby" modes. Can
> you define these for me? How do you set the "idle" brightness, and
> should that be bright or dim?
>
>
> --
> NauticusLX
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> NauticusLX's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8981
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31652
>
>

azinck3
2007-01-18, 23:20
Azinck3, I’m still confused about the “idle” vs “standby” modes. Can you define these for me? How do you set the “idle” brightness, and should that be bright or dim?

Between the ridiculousness of your demands, your disrespect of this community, your close-mindedness, and your obvious lack of understanding of the basic paradigm of the squeezebox, I don't really desire to spend any more time helping. This is unusual for me, because I normally try to be quite helpful. But it's just all added up in this thread. Spend some more time with the device and its settings. Play with it. Figure some things out. It's a powerful piece of equipment, not a microwave or a television. Try to understand what you're talking about before you get insulting.

Robin Bowes
2007-01-19, 00:27
NauticusLX wrote:
> Pale Blue, you said "Nauticus seems confused that others might want to
> see the display even when the player is "off".
>
> In my view of things, if something is displayed on the SB, it's on.
> This weekend, when you're friends are over, say to them "look at the
> time on my turned off SB" and see if they don't think YOU'RE confused.

Have you had your SB for 30 days yet? If not, it's not too late to send
it back for a refund. Failing that, you could always sell it on eBay -
these things hold their value well.

I suggest you spend the money saved on politeness lessons, or perhaps
maybe even get yourself a clue.

R.

ceejay
2007-01-19, 01:24
Have you had your SB for 30 days yet? If not, it's not too late to send
it back for a refund.

We could all chip in to pay the return shipping costs if that's a problem...

ModelCitizen
2007-01-19, 01:51
This has got to take the cake for bizarrest thread of the year.
One thing really struck me though. Andy wrote some code to address the concerns of NauticusLX within a day (or two) of his first post, and the bloke didn't even seem to notice the absolutely superlative (and second-to-none) customer service and then, couldn't even see himself straight to say thank you. It just seemed to go right past him!

And towards the end of the thread he seems to question whether Andy really is a SlimDevices developer too.

Wierd.

MC

snarlydwarf
2007-01-19, 03:30
And he insists that the behavior couldnt be changed, because it makes no sense how it could be changed without him knowing about it, so Andy must be lying...

Some people enjoy life in crisis mode and will fabricate all sorts of paranoid delusions to keep that crisis going.

TCM
2007-01-19, 05:36
NauticusLX: have you forgotten to take your pills this week...?


They´re coming to take me away,
Haha, they´re coming to take me away,
Ho ho, hee hee, ha ha,
To the funny farm
Where Life is Beautiful all the time
And I´ll be happy to see
Those Nice Young Men
In their Clean White Coats
And they´re coming to take me AWAY,
HA HAAAA

GoCubs
2007-01-19, 07:51
It's people like this that are the reason most companies aren't as readily accessible as SlimDevices. I only hope that with Logitech's marketing power bringing the Squeezebox more mainstream that these threads don't become more commonplace and ultimately destroy the awesome user/developer community that was a large part of the SqueezeBox's success...

-Greg

Ramage
2007-01-19, 08:08
It's people like this that are the reason most companies aren't as readily accessible as SlimDevices. I only hope that with Logitech's marketing power bringing the Squeezebox more mainstream that these threads don't become more commonplace and ultimately destroy the awesome user/developer community that was a large part of the SqueezeBox's success...

-Greg

I hope so too, this is the most supportive and helpful user forum I have seen.

Despite the unpleasant undercurrent, this thread has given me a laugh or two - it's a wind-up ....isn't it?

tomjtx
2007-01-19, 08:58
I am impressed with everyone's patience with this guy and I am not surprised the patience has finally run out.

I have to wonder if the OP is actually some former disgruntled poster who has reinvented himself and is jerking our chains.

His behavior is so obtuse that it is hard to imagine someone is actually that stupid.

peter
2007-01-19, 12:29
andyg wrote:
> I give up...
>

I admire your patience!

Regards,
Peter

konut
2007-01-19, 12:31
Having followed the entire thread over the past few days, confirming my initial suspicions, I think the OP had it right in his intial post.


Maybe...I should return it and get the new Nokia N800 instead, which has the same EXACT form factor, is even a bit smaller, receives internet radio WIRELESSLY, has an alarm clock feature with snooze, let's me surf the web, AND has 2 built in speakers! I'll bet THEY won't be waking me in the middle of the night!!! Are you reading this, SLIM DEVICES? Take notice!

I'd also bet they won't be nearly as responsive if you have 'issues'. Good luck!

konut
2007-01-19, 12:32
Having followed the entire thread over the past few days, confirming my initial suspicions, I think the OP had it right in his initial post.


Maybe...I should return it and get the new Nokia N800 instead, which has the same EXACT form factor, is even a bit smaller, receives internet radio WIRELESSLY, has an alarm clock feature with snooze, let's me surf the web, AND has 2 built in speakers! I'll bet THEY won't be waking me in the middle of the night!!! Are you reading this, SLIM DEVICES? Take notice!

I'd also bet they won't be nearly as responsive if you have 'issues'. Good luck!

peter
2007-01-19, 12:35
Pale Blue Ego wrote:
> Nauticus seems confused that others might want to see the display even
> when the player is "off". When not used as a music player, the SB
> makes a superb clock, weather station, etc.
>
> I keep my bedroom SB3 playing all night; actually I'd have trouble
> sleeping without it. Try crashing to Blue Mars or The Drone Zone.
>

Omigod. That reminds me of the night I spent in a hotel in Lisbon with a
total idiot next door who could only sleep when the home shopping
channel was playing. :(

Regards,
Peter

peter
2007-01-19, 12:42
konut wrote:
> Having followed the entire thread over the past few days, confirming my
> initial suspicions, I think the OP had it right in his intial post.
>
> NauticusLX;170227 Wrote:
>
>> Maybe...I should return it and get the new Nokia N800 instead, which
>> has the same EXACT form factor, is even a bit smaller, receives
>> internet radio WIRELESSLY, has an alarm clock feature with snooze,
>> let's me surf the web, AND has 2 built in speakers! I'll bet THEY
>> won't be waking me in the middle of the night!!! Are you reading this,
>> SLIM DEVICES? Take notice!
>>
>
> I'd also bet they won't be nearly as responsive if you have 'issues'.
> Good luck!
>

Nokia are totally stone deaf unfortunately and I'm pretty sick of the
most elementary bugs never getting fixed. :(

Regards,
Peter

Mitch Harding
2007-01-19, 12:49
Have you tried threatening a lawsuit over lost sleep? :)

On 1/19/07, Peter <landen-slimp (AT) frg (DOT) eur.nl> wrote:
>
> konut wrote:
> > Having followed the entire thread over the past few days, confirming my
> > initial suspicions, I think the OP had it right in his intial post.
> >
> > NauticusLX;170227 Wrote:
> >
> >> Maybe...I should return it and get the new Nokia N800 instead, which
> >> has the same EXACT form factor, is even a bit smaller, receives
> >> internet radio WIRELESSLY, has an alarm clock feature with snooze,
> >> let's me surf the web, AND has 2 built in speakers! I'll bet THEY
> >> won't be waking me in the middle of the night!!! Are you reading this,
> >> SLIM DEVICES? Take notice!
> >>
> >
> > I'd also bet they won't be nearly as responsive if you have 'issues'.
> > Good luck!
> >
>
> Nokia are totally stone deaf unfortunately and I'm pretty sick of the
> most elementary bugs never getting fixed. :(
>
> Regards,
> Peter
>
>

NauticusLX
2007-05-01, 14:27
Thought I would weigh in with an update. My "box" lighted up not once but twice early this morning. Fortunately, since my initial post, I bought a 2nd remote control, which has the buttons that light up, which I keep by the bed, so I could "turn it off" easily. But my ISP had a scheduled outtage earlier last night - when they came back online, that might have caused it to turn on. But then this happened again about 30 minutes or so later. All previous posts notwithstanding, I still think it's mighty odd (what is the convenience afforded by this feature?) that the SB needs to be the ONE electrical device with an on/off switch (on the remote) that can "turn itself on" completely against the wishes of the user. For comparison, I keep my PC in hibernate mode, which seems equivalent to the "off" mode of the SB. Yet my PC doesn't "react" if the cable signal stops and starts, ditto the AC power. Other devices that have a "standby" or "hibernate" mode don't come out of those modes against the explicit wishes of the owner (or someone who acts as the owner, for you sticklers out there thinking about remote, unauthorized access such as by a hacker). Why can't the "standby" mode of the SB possess this same degree of integrity?

snarlydwarf
2007-05-01, 14:37
The SB must remain at least semi-on so that you can wake it from a PC.

Ie, it -must- have the network interface enabled or it would not be able to work as an alarm clock.

It must have the RF interface enabled or it would not be possible to turn it on with the remote.

As for:
or someone who acts as the owner, for you sticklers out there thinking about remote, unauthorized access such as by a hacker...

If someone has unauthorized access to your wired or wired network, or can generate spontaneous IR signals in your house you have bigger problems than how bright a display is.

andyg
2007-05-01, 14:37
If you haven't already, please update to the latest firmware (81). It contains a bug fix for the quick 'flash' of brightness 4 that occurs when the player loses the server connection. I assume you had your SN player set to brightness 0 and when your ISP went down, it flashed for a split-second?

azinck3
2007-05-01, 14:59
If you haven't already, please update to the latest firmware (81). It contains a bug fix for the quick 'flash' of brightness 4 that occurs when the player loses the server connection. I assume you had your SN player set to brightness 0 and when your ISP went down, it flashed for a split-second?

Maybe he had the "off" screen saver set to "none"...in which case the brightness may have been at any level.

NauticusLX
2007-05-08, 17:01
Snarly, but it can't work as an alarm clock if there are so many false alarms. Hasn't this occurred to you? Or anybody else?

And Andy, I haven’t noticed the flash in a few months. But in the last week or so, when I leave the SB on during the night (but dimmed down all the way) I’ve noticed the display turned back on on, not enough to wake me, but still, it does seem to have a mind of it’s own. And your company should contact all users when there’s an update available. It’s ironic that I never hear from legit places that have my email address, even when there’s a legitimate need. Have you ever heard of "email"?

The permutations of brightness on/off, screensaver, etc, are a little mind-boggling. Maybe a chart would be convenient. Something like the pre-flight check-list used by the Space Shuttle?

kdf
2007-05-08, 17:06
Player State Brightness Screensaver
------------ ---------- -----------
Playing Music on playing
Not Playing Music idle not playing
Off off powered off

EFP
2007-05-09, 09:37
I’ve noticed the display turned back on on, not enough to wake me,


SPOOKY


!

sebp
2008-05-26, 14:11
By dint of the integrated forum search engine, looking for a cure for my Controller 'back' dead key problem, I've found this hilarious thread.
Thanks all, didn't solved my problem, but - heh - I had so much fun that it made my day !

Nonreality
2008-05-26, 20:40
Wow what an amazing thread. Usually dense people don't get scared that easy. Night Terrors! I'd hate to see what would happen if someone actually sneezed in the dark, dark room in the middle of the night. I doubt he would make it through it. He does have being rude down to an art. It's all about me me me and don't tell me anything I don't want to hear because it's all about me me me. Night terrors, what a joke.

bobkoure
2008-05-29, 10:10
Actually, IMHO, it was a legit complaint - and quickly fixed.
Yes, too strongly stated, and definitely it had ought to be a bugfix / enhancement request, but...
There is going to be a wider and wider audience for these devices. There will be more and more users who just use it as a "music appliance", and who really have no idea about streams or connections or backup servers. IMHO "more users"=="good" as it means more toys for us. But having these new users also means that there will be more users who get startled / shocked / pissed by the same (now fixed) behavior. Maybe the next one would just send the box back (OK, fine) and then proceed to tell all his friends / blog / etc about how this robot device "attacked" (not fine).

m1abrams
2008-05-29, 18:56
I just finished this wonderful thread before bed. Thanks all for the great read. :)