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tomjtx
2007-01-10, 09:15
Does the I in the Iphone stand for idiot?
As in : only an idiot would pay that much for a phone that doesn't do as much as a smart phone which can be almost free with a contract?

Idiotphone: no user replacable battery, locked sim card that is probably harder to unlock than any other phone(or impossible, remember, it's Apple)
I don't think it has wi-fi so you have to burn minutes to surf the web(could be mistaken on this one)

If the fragility of the ipod is an indicator don't buy this phone w/o the normal cellphone extended warranty that includes "mysterious loss".
When it breaks(like the ipod) Apple will do anything they can to not honor the warranty.

Craig, James (IT)
2007-01-10, 09:29
It does have wi-fi.
Looks great to me apart from the phone bit - I don't need that at all!

James
--------------------------------------------------------

NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender. Sender does not intend to waive confidentiality or privilege. Use of this email is prohibited when received in error.

jonheal
2007-01-10, 09:41
In general, I hate cell phones, and wouldn't mind too much if a law were passed allowing one to shoot annoying cell phone users on sight. I also grow weary of Mac zealots that equate Steve Jobs with Jesus Christ reach for the torches and pitchforks if anyone utters the slightest misgiving about Apple.

But...

It is a neat looking little machine, and the screen resolution, 160 ppi -- that'll make for some amazingly sharp images.

P.S. I do have a Mac, by the way.

CardinalFang
2007-01-10, 10:39
It does have wi-fi

It does, but it's not possible to download media except by a connection to a Mac/PC. The WiFi seems to be solely for web browsing, although the problem with WiFi outside the home is the lack of roaming agreements between WiFi providers.

It's nice and does really mark a big step forward for cellphone UIs, but it is expensive and the true cost isn't known yet as the monthly data rate has't been announced yet. Plus you can't use it without the cell phone part, so even after the two years is up, you have to have a cellular agreement. No replaceable batteries, no memory expansion, no games or 3rd party applications, it's a closed system for Apple and friends only so far, perhaps they'll change that, but who knows?

peter
2007-01-10, 10:44
jonheal wrote:
> In general, I hate cell phones, and wouldn't mind too much if a law were
> passed allowing one to shoot annoying cell phone users on sight. I also
> grow weary of Mac zealots that equate Steve Jobs with Jesus Christ
> reach for the torches and pitchforks if anyone utters the slightest
> misgiving about Apple.
>
> But...
>
> It is a neat looking little machine, and the screen resolution 166 ppi
> -- that'll make for some amazingly sharp images.
>
> P.S. I do have a Mac, by the way.
>

Yeah, we figured that when we read that you're only growing weary of
armed Mac zealots while you're willing to shoot innocent cell phone users.
;)

It looks good and it's a welcome kick in the butt to other cell phone
makers, but I'll just keep waiting for the Nokia E90 myself.

Regards,
Peter

CCRDude
2007-01-10, 11:14
It does, but it's not possible to download media except by a connection to a Mac/PC. The WiFi seems to be solely for web browsing, although the problem with WiFi outside the home is the lack of roaming agreements between WiFi providers.

Widgets (as shown) obviously need the ability to communicate online, how else could the Weather app show its data? And the Google Maps app... would you call that web browsing? Looked like a dedicated app. And then, it's MacOSX.


Plus you can't use it without the cell phone part, so even after the two years is up, you have to have a cellular agreement.

I've read a bunch of sites quoting the Keynote, and watched it myself. Didn't hear or read that anywhere.


No replaceable batteries,

Who said that? Can't really tell from the Keynote & pictures imho.


no memory expansion,

Who said that? Can't really tell from the Keynote & pictures imho.


no games or 3rd party applications,

So the widgets shown during the keynote are not third-party, and you think that they'll contrary to widgets on the other MacOSX, they'll limit the number of widgets that can be run? Just take a look on how well Apple supported software developers over the past 20+ years.


it's a closed system for Apple and friends only so far,

And I always thought that MacOSX is based on BSD... that you could even download the Darwin part... might be the GUI is closed source, but since its MacOSX, widgets are already well documented and for the rest... do you expect Apple to change MacOSX radically to make all the existing documentation void, just after they announced they took MacOSX to NOT develop something new?


I'm still sceptical whether typing text on the device would be fast enough for me, but there's one thing that's great: they actually cared about usage of the PHONE. Take a look at all those smartphones out there, and using it to call someone seems to be the most neglected part of the whole device.

tomjtx
2007-01-10, 11:21
According to Wired Magazine the battery is NOT user replaceable.
That alone is reason enough for me to not buy it.

jonheal
2007-01-10, 11:32
jonheal wrote:
> In general, I hate cell phones, and wouldn't mind too much if a law were
> passed allowing one to shoot annoying cell phone users on sight. I also
> grow weary of Mac zealots that equate Steve Jobs with Jesus Christ
> reach for the torches and pitchforks if anyone utters the slightest
> misgiving about Apple.
>
> But...
>
> It is a neat looking little machine, and the screen resolution 166 ppi
> -- that'll make for some amazingly sharp images.
>
> P.S. I do have a Mac, by the way.
>

Yeah, we figured that when we read that you're only growing weary of
armed Mac zealots while you're willing to shoot innocent cell phone users.
;)

It looks good and it's a welcome kick in the butt to other cell phone
makers, but I'll just keep waiting for the Nokia E90 myself.

Regards,
Peter

I suppose shooting 'em is a bit extreme...

How about a law authorizing Mac zealots to go after annoying cell phone users with torches and pitchforks?

And if need be, they can be shot after the fact, to put them out of their misery.

:-)

CardinalFang
2007-01-10, 11:43
Widgets (as shown) obviously need the ability to communicate online, how else could the Weather app show its data? And the Google Maps app... would you call that web browsing? Looked like a dedicated app. And then, it's MacOSX.


I specifically said media, as in music, video and the apps you mention are from partners.



I've read a bunch of sites quoting the Keynote, and watched it myself. Didn't hear or read that anywhere.


Time magazine, engadget, gizmodo



Who said that? Can't really tell from the Keynote & pictures imho.

Time magazine, engadget, gizmodo



Who said that? Can't really tell from the Keynote & pictures imho.

Time magazine, engadget, gizmodo



So the widgets shown during the keynote are not third-party, and you think that they'll contrary to widgets on the other MacOSX, they'll limit the number of widgets that can be run? Just take a look on how well Apple supported software developers over the past 20+ years.


Widgets are Java based, games in general are native code or on mobile devices are sometimes J2ME based. OS/X has J2SE. The view from the street is that it's a closed system to keep Cingular happy. I'm in the cell phone business and know the market extremely well



And I always thought that MacOSX is based on BSD... that you could even download the Darwin part... might be the GUI is closed source, but since its MacOSX, widgets are already well documented and for the rest... do you expect Apple to change MacOSX radically to make all the existing documentation void, just after they announced they took MacOSX to NOT develop something new?

Cellular networks do not allow downloading of any content, only operator-approved content that they get a cut of. Cingular are heavily subsidising the device and need to get a good return on their investment. It's a walled garden to a large extent for apps.



I'm still sceptical whether typing text on the device would be fast enough for me, but there's one thing that's great: they actually cared about usage of the PHONE. Take a look at all those smartphones out there, and using it to call someone seems to be the most neglected part of the whole device.

Agreed, usability is dire on most, if not all, handsets.

CCRDude
2007-01-10, 12:19
Time magazine, engadget, gizmodo
I watched the updates on engadget yesterday getting updated and updated and updated... I assume we speak about this here?
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-apple-iphone
Where exactly does it tell about batteries or memory extensions? Except in dozens of contradicting user comments?


Cellular networks do not allow downloading of any content, only operator-approved content that they get a cut of.

Interesting... am I doing something illegal then? We've developed a cellphone application that downloads updated from the Internet (for both Symbian and Windows CE/Mobile). I'm pretty sure Vodafone (the one I use for testing) hasn't approved, and I'm even more sure I don't pay them a cut of it. And this application has been tested with dozens of other providers by our users.

Granted, its not "media" content, but then, every advanced smartphone browser can view any media available through http (the Keynote was very clear on the topic that Safari would NOT be crippled in any way compared to the desktop version). I could easily write applications that do download any file through http as well - OS like Symbian and Windows Mobile support standard Internet access routines. So, where do networks currently have to approve? Do they filter contents through a proxy? Doubt so, you can use browsers to access a lot they don't get a share for. Detecting the accessing software? Doubt so as well, Opera might have made a secret deal about that, but the Mozilla foundation couldn't possible hide such tricks in their software, since its open source - and the Minimo can browse a lot of media content where Vodafone doesn't get a cut.

So, sorry to tell you ;) but the cellphone world has evolved quite a lot since iMode and WAP, and the big networks around here even advertise fully-featured flatrates as primary home Internet access, so I seriously doubt networks are still limiting content (except maybe for old, outdated WAP, can't say a thing about that)...

Granted, it might be difficult to bring the downloaded content to work in the shipped applications, but that is another topic, and I'm kind of thinking that stuff like VLC could be ported to the iPhone quite soon.


It's a walled garden to a large extent for apps.

The clostest attempt to walling a smartphone off are Windows smartphones that allow only code-signed applications. Still, you could always insert your own root certificate or turn that off, or just by a certificate at VeriSign, no big strings attached.

And contrary to Windows, the kernel of MacOSX (Darwin) is - imho - still under the BSD license, which puts some limits on the way of implementing the limitations.

I only have to think about MacOSX for Intel... how long did it actually took them to get to run on ANY (well, those with specific hardware) Intel PC?

Or it might be that I - as a software developer developing for mobile platforms as well - have watched so many ups and downs of different mobile Operating Systems and found that 3rd party apps where what made some of them strong (Palm lived on just that for years, the more "modern" Windows Mobile did only pass it with .Net that allowed more "standard" developers to code for it, Symbian lives only thanks to good public documentation on interfaces, and the GNU compiler), that I just can't believe they would make a device for geeks that could not be extended by those same geeks, making it only half as geeky :D

ModelCitizen
2007-01-10, 12:49
no user replacable battery
If this is true (and I realise it's open to question) it's criminal considering the unbelievably and extremely crap battery Apple put in the third generation iPod. 500 UK Pounds for a music player that played good quality mp3s for only two hours before dying... and that was before the battery became worn... which took about errr... two months.
Two years later (or probably more) my battery lasts for 5 seconds.
Un*********believable. And that was just one of the things that made it not-fit-for-purpose (lack of volume, dodgy OS, crap headphones and overall fragility were others).
Five hundred pounds! I was mad to buy the vain trinket and learnt an embarrasing lesson about fools and their money.
I've not even mentioned Apple's policy to ignore any complaints or returns.

Yes I know I can get a new battery and even replace it myself if I cared to, but I'd rather put it in the marketing-over-content museum... or how the 21st century used up it's planet working too hard to buy useless, instantly obselete rubbish.. and then bought more!

Apple for me are almost the personification of virtually all that is wrong with modern life.

MC

Robin Bowes
2007-01-10, 13:07
ModelCitizen wrote:
> tomjtx;168909 Wrote:
>> no user replacable battery
> If this is true (and I realise it's open to question) it's criminal
> considering the unbelievably and extremely crap battery Apple put in
> the third generation iPod. 500 UK Pounds for a music player that played
> good quality mp3s for only two hours before dying... and that was before
> the battery became worn... which took about errr... two months.
> Two years later (or probably more) my battery lasts for 5 seconds.
> Un*********believable. And that was just one of the things that made it
> not-fit-for-purpose (lack of volume, dodgy OS, crap headphones and
> overall fragility were others).
> Five hundred pounds! I was mad to buy the vain trinket and learnt an
> embarrasing lesson about fools and their money.
> I've not even mentioned Apple's policy to ignore any complaints or
> returns.
>
> Yes I know I can get a new battery and even replace it myself if I
> cared to, but I'd rather put it in the marketing-over-content museum...
> or how the 21st century used up it's planet working too hard to buy
> useless, instantly obselete rubbish.. and then bought more!
>
> Apple for me are almost the personification of virtually all that is
> wrong with modern life.

I still can't believe you bought those bird flu protection kits at £30 a
pop. :)

R.

ModelCitizen
2007-01-10, 13:33
I still can't believe you bought those bird flu protection kits at £30 a pop. :)
R.I'm not sure of the relevance of that Robin but bird flu is still bubbling under and history pretty much shows that it is inevitable that a pandemic will occur.. so £30 for some Tamiflu for each of my family seems like a reasonable precaution (even considering that it is now very likely that if the current bird flue strain does mutate it will be Tamiflu resistant).
This topic is quite removed from trivial consumer products though, it's in a very different league and you shouldn't have brought it up in this context (sorry Robin).
MC

Robin Bowes
2007-01-10, 15:16
ModelCitizen wrote:
> Robin Bowes;169010 Wrote:
>> I still can't believe you bought those bird flu protection kits at £30 a
>> pop. :)
>> R.I'm not sure of the relevance of that Robin but bird flu is still
> bubbling under and history pretty much shows that it is inevitable that
> a pandemic will occur.. so £30 for some Tamiflu for each of my family
> seems like a reasonable precaution (even considering that it is now
> very likely that if the current bird flue strain does mutate it will be
> Tamiflu resistant).
> This topic is quite removed from trivial consumer products though, it's
> in a very different league and you shouldn't have brought it up in this
> context (sorry Robin).

Well, in my twisted mind, it seems that there are parallels between
marketing hype for the iPod and the media hype over the threat posed by
bird flu and the resulting wave of marketing hype for protection kits.

It amused me that you seem to have fallen for both.

Obviously, I don't share your fear of an imminent bird flu pandemic.

Apologies, and I won't mention it again.

R.

Jacob Potter
2007-01-10, 20:34
On 1/10/07, ModelCitizen
<ModelCitizen.2k7mtb1168458601 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
> If this is true (and I realise it's open to question) it's criminal
> considering the unbelievably and extremely crap battery Apple put in
> the third generation iPod. 500 UK Pounds for a music player that played
> good quality mp3s for only two hours before dying... and that was before
> the battery became worn... which took about errr... two months.
> Two years later (or probably more) my battery lasts for 5 seconds.
> Un*********believable. And that was just one of the things that made it
> not-fit-for-purpose (lack of volume, dodgy OS, crap headphones and
> overall fragility were others).
> Five hundred pounds! I was mad to buy the vain trinket and learnt an
> embarrasing lesson about fools and their money.

Not everyone has the same experience with a given product. I bought a
3rd-gen 15GB iPod in the spring of '04, and it's run flawlessly since
then. Sure, the battery isn't what it used to be, but still gets
several solid hours of play time. I even accidentally flung it off my
desk a few times (headphone cord got caught in the chair wheels), onto
a linoleum floor, with no damage except for a few scratches on the
back.

$300 well spent, in my mind. :)

- Jacob

peter
2007-01-11, 02:21
Robin Bowes wrote:
> ModelCitizen wrote:
>
>> Robin Bowes;169010 Wrote:
>>
>>> I still can't believe you bought those bird flu protection kits at £30 a
>>> pop. :)
>>> R.I'm not sure of the relevance of that Robin but bird flu is still
>>>
>> bubbling under and history pretty much shows that it is inevitable that
>> a pandemic will occur.. so £30 for some Tamiflu for each of my family
>> seems like a reasonable precaution (even considering that it is now
>> very likely that if the current bird flue strain does mutate it will be
>> Tamiflu resistant).
>> This topic is quite removed from trivial consumer products though, it's
>> in a very different league and you shouldn't have brought it up in this
>> context (sorry Robin).
>>
>
> Well, in my twisted mind, it seems that there are parallels between
> marketing hype for the iPod and the media hype over the threat posed by
> bird flu and the resulting wave of marketing hype for protection kits.
>

Crap, the two have nothing to do with each other. I've seen no eminent
scientists warning you to get an iPod. I've seen many eminent scientists
warning against a *possible* flu pandemic and its results.

It's typical for the current world that people just heap everything
together and consider it one great conspiracy. When anybody warns
against anything it *must* be a conspiracy to sell stuff, right?

> It amused me that you seem to have fallen for both.
>
> Obviously, I don't share your fear of an imminent bird flu pandemic.
>

Of course not. And Bush organized 911, no doubt...

Regards,
Peter

CardinalFang
2007-01-11, 06:40
I watched the updates on engadget yesterday getting updated and updated and updated... I assume we speak about this here?
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-apple-iphone
Where exactly does it tell about batteries or memory extensions? Except in dozens of contradicting user comments?


From Time Magazine:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1575410-2,00.html

"You can't download songs directly onto it from the iTunes store, you have to export them from a computer. And even though it's got WiFi and Bluetooth on it, you can't sync iPhone with a computer wirelessly. And there should be games on it. And you're required to use it as a phone—you can't use it without signing up for cellular service. Boo."

From Engadget:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-iphone-is-not-a-smartphone/

And the reality slowly sets in about what the iPhone is and is not. Noted analyst and Engadget pal Michael Gartenberg stated that the iPhone is first party software ONLY -- i.e. not a smartphone by conventional terms, being that a smartphone is a platform device that allows software to be installed. That means hungry power-users -- you know, those people ready and willing to plunk down $600 for an 8GB musicphone -- won't be able to extend the functionality of their phone any more than Apple (but thankfully not Cingular) dictates. Other unfortunate realities about the device:

* No 3G. We know you know, but still, it hurts man.
* No over the air iTunes Store downloads or WiFi syncing to your host machine.
* No expandable memory.
* No removable battery.
* No Exchange or Office support.

From Kotaku (link from gizmodo)

http://kotaku.com/gaming/iphone/apple-iphone-not-developer-friendly-227948.php

Apple iPhone Not Developer Friendly

Despite all of the noise about the amazing potential that a touchscreen pocket computer with all sorts of fancy sensors could have as a gaming device, the truth of the matter is that like everything Apple, the iPhone is likely not going to be very game friendly.

That is because Apple wants to keep tight control over everything that goes on to their platform. Shocker!

Water Cooler Games reports that Apple reps are already referring to the iPhone as a "closed platform" and say that there will not be any public SDJ released. The reps did say you could call up the company if you're interested, but it sounds like they are going to be pretty damn strict about not letting in on their private money-making party.

Add to that the fact that the iPhone will support first party software only and you've got a device that won't be getting anything more exciting than a vanilla Tetris in the next decade.

One more wonderful possibility shot in the foot. Brian Crecente




Interesting... am I doing something illegal then? We've developed a cellphone application that downloads updated from the Internet (for both Symbian and Windows CE/Mobile). I'm pretty sure Vodafone (the one I use for testing) hasn't approved, and I'm even more sure I don't pay them a cut of it. And this application has been tested with dozens of other providers by our users.


What you have produced is a app installable from a PC for open systems on Smartphones that can open a HTTP link to get more data OTA. PC-installed apps are a tiny market compared to the rest of the cellphone apps out there that run on Java and Brew and where typically you can't do that, or if you can via web portals, there are so few decent downloads that it's not worth it. I don't know how many downloads a day you were getting for your app, but a OTA downloadable game isn't really successful and stays in the top ten until it's getting 800-1,000 downloads per day on each operator - so about 1,000,000 per annum. Really big sellers go a lot higher. Also, in case you haven't yet felt it, Smartphone software gets ripped off and appears on web pages within hours if it's any good - that open OS and file system that seems a boon is a big headache as well. What you are doing is not illegal, but it's not much of a business either compared to the real market that Apple craves :-(

To give you some background behind my comments, I was CTO of one of the leading mobile gaming publishers and technology developers - pm me if you want the details - and we produced games for Vodafone and Verizon for the launch of their 3G services and created top selling games for Disney, Sony and others on all of the US majors, #1 3D game on Verizon, Vodafone etc. For the *vast majority* of handsets, ie. the mass market ones that sell in the millions, you have to sell the applications through the operator portals using their billing and provisioning systems and only after it has gained their approval and passed certification. You can go off deck for game downloads, but you won't sell anything compared to going through the operator portal. Apps also get placed on decks according to rules laid down by those operators and that's highly influenced by branding, marketing budgets and well, who you are.

It's clear that Apple and Cingular will control the market for applications to recoup the money invested. It isn't a Smartphone in the true sense as a result and it will be 1st party or the big boys apps only. It's a native development environment and rogue apps from hackers are an issue. Can you sell apps right now for the iPod, or do games come from approved parties? And I mean real business, not the odd hacked version of Doom that someone technical can force onto their system. The same will apply for the iPhone or whatever tey call it after the dust settles.

PS: let's take this to PM, it's not relevant to Slim.

MelonMonkey
2007-01-11, 09:28
Wow, so much steam and blather in this thread and no one has mentioned the only thing that's relevant to Slim/Squeezebox?

The web UI (or a future custom application/widget once people are able to install them - this will come) would make for a fine Squeezebox controller.

It's clear that Apple will sell more iPhone units in the 24 hour period of the launch day than Nokia will ever sell N800 or 770 in their lifetimes. It stands to reason if you want to make a portable UI for SS/SB then this platform will definitely have the numbers.

And to put it right back on topic.. The "i" doesn't appear to stand for idiot. But I suspect such a question to have come from someone acting idiotic.

Craig, James (IT)
2007-01-11, 09:34
> Wow, so much steam and blather in this thread and no one has mentioned
the only thing
> that's relevant to Slim/Squeezebox?

> The web UI (or a fuure custom application once people are able to
install them
> - this will come) would make for a fine Squeezebox controller.

Ha! At last! Like I said, who cares about the phone part?


James
--------------------------------------------------------

NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender. Sender does not intend to waive confidentiality or privilege. Use of this email is prohibited when received in error.

bklaas
2007-01-11, 09:48
It's clear that Apple will sell more iPhone units in the 24 hour period of the launch day than Nokia will ever sell N800 or 770 in their lifetimes. It stands to reason if you want to make a portable UI for SS/SB then this platform will definitely have the numbers.

My money is on *neither* becoming the best portable UI for SS/SB.

I think the "i" stands for "i've been sued by Cisco, who owns the trademark to iPhone, and even currently *ships* a product called iPhone". Apple was remarkably arrogant (what a surprise) to announce a product it hadn't secured the trademark rights to...
http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=114437&WT.svl=news1_3

#!/ben

CardinalFang
2007-01-11, 10:06
Wow, so much steam and blather in this thread and no one has mentioned the only thing that's relevant to Slim/Squeezebox?

"steam and blather" - nice. Sorry if we stopped being slim fanboys for a moment and decided to have a discussion about another music device.

The only thing that's really relevant to Slim is that AppleTV will wipe out a chunk of their sales - and the only thing that the iPhone will ever control is the AppleTV. It sure was a smart move selling out to Logitech...

tomjtx
2007-01-11, 11:24
[

And to put it right back on topic.. The "i" doesn't appear to stand for idiot. But I suspect such a question to have come from someone acting idiotic.[/QUOTE]




No, the question came from someone with a sense of humor, which you don't seem to have.

Robin Bowes
2007-01-11, 12:27
tomjtx wrote:

>
> No, the question came from someone with a sense of humor, which you don't
> seem to have.

<sigh>

Alas, a quality all too conspicuous by its absence on these forums of late.

R.

snarlydwarf
2007-01-11, 12:40
Alas, a quality all too conspicuous by its absence on these forums of late.

I dunno, I was pleasantly surprised by the traction of the wormcable discussion.

tomjtx
2007-01-11, 21:57
tomjtx wrote:

>
> No, the question came from someone with a sense of humor, which you don't
> seem to have.

<sigh>

Alas, a quality all too conspicuous by its absence on these forums of late.

R.

Alac, perchance the humor is proprietary:-)

Tom

rudholm
2007-01-12, 01:55
I'm completely done with carrier-specific firmware on any cellphone. Carriers see handsets as some sort of marketing channel to sell you overpriced crap; ringtones you have to re-buy every 6 months that cost more than the actual single, games, apps, etc. They disable bluetooth profiles so you have to use their (expensive) networks to transfer pictures or other data. The carriers are uninterested in selling phones that are useful for anything other than being something you can use to buy something from them. Now they're even putting ads and branding in the phone apps. Yuck. It's bad enough that when I send an MMS to an email address my carrier plasters their logo all over it. I expect soon to have to tolerate audio bumpers at the beginning of my calls "This call is from a T-Mobile phone, one moment while we connect you..."

I either buy phones with generic firmware or re-image them with generic firmware.

It sounds like the iphone is just another example of Marketing nonsense that is alienating customers.

peter
2007-01-12, 08:52
CardinalFang wrote:
> CCRDude;168983 Wrote:
>
>> I watched the updates on engadget yesterday getting updated and updated
>> and updated... I assume we speak about this here?
>> http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-apple-iphone
>> Where exactly does it tell about batteries or memory extensions? Except
>> in dozens of contradicting user comments?
>>
>>
>
> >From Time Magazine:
>
> http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1575410-2,00.html
>
> "You can't download songs directly onto it from the iTunes store, you
> have to export them from a computer. And even though it's got WiFi and
> Bluetooth on it, you can't sync iPhone with a computer wirelessly. And
> there should be games on it. And you're required to use it as a
> phone—you can't use it without signing up for cellular service. Boo."
>

That's bad/ I was mildly pleased to learn it supported IMAP instead of
Apple-imail (or whatever), but the competing Symbian smartphones all
support SyncML for wireless data synchronization and that's really cool
(although most of the market doesn't realize that yet). It would've been
great if they'd popularized that too..


> >From Engadget:
>
> http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-iphone-is-not-a-smartphone/
>
> And the reality slowly sets in about what the iPhone is and is not.
> Noted analyst and Engadget pal Michael Gartenberg stated that the
> iPhone is first party software ONLY -- i.e. not a smartphone by
> conventional terms, being that a smartphone is a platform device that
> allows software to be installed. That means hungry power-users -- you
> know, those people ready and willing to plunk down $600 for an 8GB
> musicphone -- won't be able to extend the functionality of their phone
> any more than Apple (but thankfully not Cingular) dictates. Other
> unfortunate realities about the device:
>

Not for the typical SD customer then...

> * No 3G. We know you know, but still, it hurts man.
>

Rediculous.

> * No over the air iTunes Store downloads or WiFi syncing to your
> host machine.
> * No expandable memory.
> * No removable battery.
> * No Exchange or Office support.
>

No exchange support is good, the rest sucks. Exchange does IMAP and
should do SyncML too.

> What you have produced is a downloadable app for open systems on
> Smartphones that can open a HTTP link to get more data, which is a tiny
> market compared to the rest of the cellphones out there that run Java
> and Brew and where often you can't do that, or if you can via web
> portals, it's such a tiny market that it's not worth it. Also, in case
> you haven't yet felt it, Smartphone software gets ripped off and
> appears on web pages within hours if it's any good. It's not illegal,
> but it's not much of a business either :-(
>

Well, I must say I spent a few hundred dollars on software since I got
my Nokia 9300. I hardly ever spend money on PC software. It's either
free or free from my employer.
> I was CTO of one of the leading mobile gaming publishers and technology
> developers - pm me if you want the details - and we produced games for
> Vodafone and Verizon for the launch of their 3G services and created
> top selling games for Disney, Sony and others on all of the US majors.
> For the *vast majority* of handsets, ie. the mass market ones that sell
> in the millions, you have to sell the applications through the operator
> portals using their billing and provisioning systems and only after it
> has gained their approval. You can go off deck, but you won't sell
> anything. It also gets placed on decks according to rules laid down by
> those operators and that's highly influenced by branding, marketing
> budgets and well, who you are.
>

That's totally different in Europe and probably anywhere outside the US.
I just buy a phone and use it with whatever operator I like. I don't buy
games and not from my operator either.

Regards,
Peter

CardinalFang
2007-01-12, 09:24
That's totally different in Europe and probably anywhere outside the US. I just buy a phone and use it with whatever operator I like. I don't buy games and not from my operator either.


You're talking about smartphones again, that's chicken feed as a business for applications. Smartphones are the minority and don't represent the mass market. Whilst some operators are opening up the walled gardens, most are not - not for applications and media. Sure you can get apps and music on your phone without the operator sometimes, but that isn't what the vast majority of consumers do - people on this forum are not typical consumers, anyone with a Smartphone is not a typical consumer but in a niche. Typical consumer buy pay-as-you-go handsets or ones subsidised with cheap contracts and are locked into operator portals.

In any case, as I mentioned, there won't be any 3rd party apps for the iPhone - Apple have now confirmed that:

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?newsid=16926&pagtype=allchandate

stinkingpig
2007-01-12, 10:53
....
> > * No Exchange or Office support.
> >
>
> No exchange support is good, the rest sucks. Exchange does IMAP and
> should do SyncML too.
....

The thing is a toy and will only be used by SOHO folks and soccer
moms; end of story. It telegraphs that for all their talk about
enterprise, Apple, Inc (no longer Apple Computers) is still not
inclined to work instead of play. Wake me when the XServe ships with a
49 cent (in bulk) IPMI chip.

--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional

totoro
2007-01-12, 11:07
....
> > * No Exchange or Office support.
> >
>
> No exchange support is good, the rest sucks. Exchange does IMAP and
> should do SyncML too.
....

The thing is a toy and will only be used by SOHO folks and soccer
moms; end of story. It telegraphs that for all their talk about
enterprise, Apple, Inc (no longer Apple Computers) is still not
inclined to work instead of play. Wake me when the XServe ships with a
49 cent (in bulk) IPMI chip.

--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional

From my experience, the problem with XServe isn't hardware, but software. OSX may be a nice OS for end users, but the layering of BSD over Mach, with incompatible threading models, makes it difficult, if not impossible, to get any kind of decent performance out of a large multithreaded server application (as I have learned to my cost). My company was a software vendor to them, and I got all kinds of crap from them (apple) about the fact that I was using spinlocks, blah blah blah when I contacted them to ask about the problems I was having (I started off by assuming I had done something wrong). When we went through and made all the changes they told me we needed to (a royal PITA: you wouldn't believe how many #ifdef and #include statements had to be created/changed/generally mucked with), the performance hadn't gotten any better at all (although we found if we left that stuff the way they said we should for osx for linux, our linux performance got better.

After doing some research, we found we were far from alone in these problems. Small players like oracle had also had similar problems.

If you are interested in this, do a search on something like:
osx funnel mach threading pthreads problem performance

Until/unless they dump the mach/next stuff, I'll never buy one of their boxes.

ps. I'm not an anti-microkernel/mach bigot. I'm sure it's possible to make a good full microkernel OS. But neither of the two I have experience with (OSF1 and OSX, both mach-based) were things I would want to develop on at this point in my career.

jmpage2
2007-01-13, 00:45
....
> > * No Exchange or Office support.
> >
>
> No exchange support is good, the rest sucks. Exchange does IMAP and
> should do SyncML too.
....

The thing is a toy and will only be used by SOHO folks and soccer
moms; end of story. It telegraphs that for all their talk about
enterprise, Apple, Inc (no longer Apple Computers) is still not
inclined to work instead of play. Wake me when the XServe ships with a
49 cent (in bulk) IPMI chip.

--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional

This pretty much hits it on the head. The moment the iPhone becomes available it's going to become the "must have" fashion gadget for everyone on the planet who is 13-49.

$499-$599 for a small breakable device that is probably not upgradeable, has outdated EDGE radio, can't have its battery replaced and forces you into a new 2 year contract with the mobile provider?

Joe 6 pack won't be able to pull his (or mommy and daddy's) credit card out fast enough to make this dream a reality.

I fully expect Apple to give away about 10,000 of these to professional athletes and movie stars just so that they are quickly seen in the hands of society's "elite" and all the normal folks who are already afflicted with the worst consumerism seen in this country since the 1930's are in an absolute rabid frenzy to get ahold of one.

peter
2007-01-13, 01:17
Jack Coates wrote:
> ...
>> > * No Exchange or Office support.
>> >
>>
>> No exchange support is good, the rest sucks. Exchange does IMAP and
>> should do SyncML too.
> ...
>
> The thing is a toy and will only be used by SOHO folks and soccer
> moms; end of story. It telegraphs that for all their talk about
> enterprise, Apple, Inc (no longer Apple Computers) is still not
> inclined to work instead of play. Wake me when the XServe ships with a
> 49 cent (in bulk) IPMI chip.

I personally prefer to work and play without having to change phones. I
wish Nokia (as well as Apple) would understand that in their new
communicator and put the emphasis on both.

Regards,
Peter

crapulent
2007-01-13, 01:18
grammer / spelling nazi, shoed bee "societies" not "societys"

On 1/12/07, jmpage2 <jmpage2.2kc9hb1168674601 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
wrote:
>
>
> Jack Coates;169638 Wrote:
> > ....
> > > > * No Exchange or Office support.
> > > >
> > >
> > > No exchange support is good, the rest sucks. Exchange does IMAP and
> > > should do SyncML too.
> > ....
> >
> > The thing is a toy and will only be used by SOHO folks and soccer
> > moms; end of story. It telegraphs that for all their talk about
> > enterprise, Apple, Inc (no longer Apple Computers) is still not
> > inclined to work instead of play. Wake me when the XServe ships with a
> > 49 cent (in bulk) IPMI chip.
> >
> > --
> > "I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
> > So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional
>
> This pretty much hits it on the head. The moment the iPhone becomes
> available it's going to become the "must have" fashion gadget for
> everyone on the planet who is 13-49.
>
> $499-$599 for a small breakable device that is probably not
> upgradeable, has outdated EDGE radio, can't have its battery replaced
> and forces you into a new 2 year contract with the mobile provider?
>
> Joe 6 pack won't be able to pull his (or mommy and daddy's) credit card
> out fast enough to make this dream a reality.
>
> I fully expect Apple to give away about 10,000 of these to professional
> athletes and movie stars just so that they are quickly seen in the hands
> of society's "elite" and all the normal folks who are already afflicted
> with the worst consumerism seen in this country since the 1930's are in
> an absolute rabid frenzy to get ahold of one.
>
>
> --
> jmpage2
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> jmpage2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31507
>
>

SteveEast
2007-01-13, 08:07
The original was fine I believe:

Society - singular
Societies - plural
Society's - singular possessive <<<< quoted version
Societies' - plural possessive

Steve.



grammer / spelling nazi, shoed bee "societies" not "societys"

> I fully expect Apple to give away about 10,000 of these to professional
> athletes and movie stars just so that they are quickly seen in the hands
> of society's "elite" and all the normal folks who are already afflicted
> with the worst consumerism seen in this country since the 1930's are in
> an absolute rabid frenzy to get ahold of one.
> [/color]

EnochLight
2007-01-13, 10:43
The only thing that's really relevant to Slim is that AppleTV will wipe out a chunk of their sales...

Wow - do you really think so? I mean, I respect your experience here and abroad but I wonder if AppleTV and the Squeezebox even compete for the same customers?

To me, AppleTV is just Apple's version of, say, a Media Extender box for Windows MCE. If I need to have a screen hooked up to it just to access my music library... nah - I personally think that AppleTV will compete for space inside of people's TV-rooms and entertainment centers, not their stereos...

I dunno, AppleTV may take *some* customers, but wipe out a chunk of their sales?

adamslim
2007-01-13, 14:50
I dunno, AppleTV may take *some* customers, but wipe out a chunk of their sales?

I think the Apple and Slim customers are very different:

Apple - like convenience, not hackers, not interested in the utmost quality

Slim - willing to spend a bit of effort to get the product how they like it; recognise that it is better quality but a bit more effort.

The Apple may actually help Slim: when people realise that the Apple isn't that good sounding, they might look around for a similar product. Most people I know haven't even considered a network music solution.

Anyway Slim needs to move into video - you just know that Apple won't support things you record from your HDTV PC card, so it's deeply pointless. Slim could do this much better, including offering support for codecs not even invented yet, as the work is done by the server. It's clearly a better system - and a matter of time. (But I won't buy one - the joy of one-bedroom flats in London!)

Adam

CardinalFang
2007-01-14, 03:54
I think the Apple and Slim customers are very different:

Apple - like convenience, not hackers, not interested in the utmost quality

Slim - willing to spend a bit of effort to get the product how they like it; recognise that it is better quality but a bit more effort.


Hmmm... well I'm a Slim customer *and* an Apple customer, anyone with an iPod is an Apple customer. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Apple fanboy, I think the iPhone misses the mark on price and having used a Motorola E680 tocuh screen phone (look it up on the web, it is like a iPhone, but Linux based and was China only), there's nothing new there.

But aren't you making a very big assumption that the AppleTV won't sound good? Also it has a digital output, so I would say that plugged into the same DAC as a SB, most of us would be hard pushed to tell the difference. Plus, it is far more convenient to use for most people. Apart from that, I don't hear too many people complaining about the sound quality of their iPods - they are used at HiFi shows for example as music sources. Why would the AppleTV be inferior? It might be, but it's not a safe assumption at this stage.

Logitech didn't acquire Slim to let them carry out catering to the technically minded, they'll want to move into the same market that Apple addresses. The AppleTV addresses the larger market far better than Slim or Sonus at this stage.

When you compare the two on price and specs, certainly here in the UK, the SB now looks very pricey. I would be hard to convince to get an SB rather than an Apple based on feature set. Just do the comparison,

AppleTV: £199, music, TV, video, plays iTunes store songs, 802.11n, in-built music storage (hard disk) TV output for browsing, proprietary code.
SB3: £199, music, 802.11g, open source code, some Internet radio (you can't use Rhapsody or Pandora legally in the UK).

So it is down to whether the SB3 sounds better and given that it does have digital out, most people really would struggle. Audiophiles may notice the difference, but perhaps they might prefer the Apple. Who knows at this stage.

Right now I think Slim need to drop the price of the SB3 and start taking tighter control of the SlimServer software to get it more consumer friendly. Either that or go all the way upmarket and stick to the transporter. Either way, the AppleTV is sure to make an impact. As I said, selling out to Logitech really was good timing, going up against Sonus and Roku is one thing, going up against Apple is a huge mountain to climb.

CardinalFang
2007-01-14, 04:41
Wow - do you really think so? I mean, I respect your experience here and abroad but I wonder if AppleTV and the Squeezebox even compete for the same customers?

To me, AppleTV is just Apple's version of, say, a Media Extender box for Windows MCE. If I need to have a screen hooked up to it just to access my music library... nah - I personally think that AppleTV will compete for space inside of people's TV-rooms and entertainment centers, not their stereos...

I dunno, AppleTV may take *some* customers, but wipe out a chunk of their sales?

If I take a look at the "photo of your set-up thread" in the audiophiles forum, I see a lot of TVs in the systems, so I think many of us are potential Apple customers.

I think the way to consider this is rather than "I need to get a TV to play my music - bummer" and instead "I can use my TV to play my music - cool". How many people out there fall into which camp?

I was dead set against a TV in my music room. Guess what, I have a TV tuner for a laptop now and watch DVDs all the time using my music system - and I still play music. The usuability shortcomings of the Slim software and the small screen of the SB make it my domain only, my family won't use it. That's nice in some ways, but wrong in others.

The problem as I see it is that we all (me included) get very defensive about our choices. I defend the SB when my family say it's clunky, rather than admit the truth. It is clunky compared to where the market has gone. Sure it sounds that much better than other systems and the latest iTunes just won't run that well on wireless networks, but if my SB had the same kind of usability as iTunes, I'd be sold forever. Right now, my finger is hovering over the buy button for the AppleTV, which is a shame because I invested a lot of time in my SB (it's modded with new PSU and case).

I think we all got complacent about the SB because it sounded so good and perhaps dismissed the other market issues too quickly. It now has a competitor that costs the same for more features and components and is a whole lot slicker. If the AppleTV sounds as good as the SB through my DAC, it's game over for me.

totoro
2007-01-14, 05:50
I love my sb3. As far as I'm concerned, my quality of life improved a lot when I got it.

But I haven't been able to convince any of my friends to get one. One friend _did_ decide to build a quiet pc and stick it in his living room with a dac, but that's as close as I got.

One of my friends who is unconvinced just got his PhD in EE from MIT, so I'm pretty sure this isn't all about technophobia, either.

I bought one for my sister as a wedding present: she's had it a couple of months now, and _still_ hasn't set it up (she lives in CA and I live in MA, so it isn't as if I can just drive over and set it up :)).

So I guess I'd have to agree with Cardinal Fang about this.

tomjtx
2007-01-14, 06:02
I love my sb3. As far as I'm concerned, my quality of life improved a lot when I got it.

But I haven't been able to convince any of my friends to get one. One friend _did_ decide to build a quiet pc and stick it in his living room with a dac, but that's as close as I got.

One of my friends who is unconvinced just got his PhD in EE from MIT, so I'm pretty sure this isn't all about technophobia, either.

I bought one for my sister as a wedding present: she's had it a couple of months now, and _still_ hasn't set it up (she lives in CA and I live in MA, so it isn't as if I can just drive over and set it up :)).

So I guess I'd have to agree with Cardinal Fang about this.

OK, which of you gentlemen live in California and are willing to help totoro's
sister? :-)

stinkingpig
2007-01-14, 10:28
"Ah, Henny Penny," said Chicken Little, "the sky is falling, and I
must go and tell the king."

"How do you know that the sky is falling, Chicken Little?" asked Henny Penny.

"I saw it with my eyes, I heard it with my ears, and a bit of it fell
on my head," said Chicken Little.

"I will go with you to the king," said Henny Penny.

--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional

stinkingpig
2007-01-14, 10:38
On 1/14/07, totoro <totoro.2kei9n1168779301 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
> I love my sb3. As far as I'm concerned, my quality of life improved a
> lot when I got it.
>
> But I haven't been able to convince any of my friends to get one. One
> friend _did_ decide to build a quiet pc and stick it in his living room
> with a dac, but that's as close as I got.
>

World population: 6,525,170,264 (July 2006 est.)

This website (http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats7.htm) gives an
English-speaking Internet users estimate of 327,084,785.

1 percent market penetration is 3,270,847 people, who buy an
guesstimated average of 2.5 Squeezeboxes each, maybe for a total price
of $600 or so (sales and freebies and what have you).

That's $1,962,508,200. In other words, products can be successful
without anyone you know buying them.
--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional

totoro
2007-01-14, 11:03
On 1/14/07, totoro <totoro.2kei9n1168779301 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
> I love my sb3. As far as I'm concerned, my quality of life improved a
> lot when I got it.
>
> But I haven't been able to convince any of my friends to get one. One
> friend _did_ decide to build a quiet pc and stick it in his living room
> with a dac, but that's as close as I got.
>

World population: 6,525,170,264 (July 2006 est.)

This website (http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats7.htm) gives an
English-speaking Internet users estimate of 327,084,785.

1 percent market penetration is 3,270,847 people, who buy an
guesstimated average of 2.5 Squeezeboxes each, maybe for a total price
of $600 or so (sales and freebies and what have you).

That's $1,962,508,200. In other words, products can be successful
without anyone you know buying them.
--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional

Yes, I can add and subtract, too. As you might have noticed, I was talking about my inability to get anyone else to by one.

I was a little surprised that I couldn't get anyone else interested in one, since my circle of friends and acquaintances includes a lot of engineers and programmers, as well as music lovers. I'm admittedly no salesman, but I would have thought I would have gotten _someone_ else to get one.

Part of this is due to the fact that many of these people perceived the thing as fussy to set up. This seems like the biggest issue to me.

And let's face it: lots of the people I'm concerned with do have ipods, so the problem isn't that they don't like computer based audio products.

stinkingpig
2007-01-14, 11:20
> Yes, I can add and subtract, too. As you might have noticed, I was
> talking about my inability to get anyone else to by one.
>

Sorry to offend, I was trying to reassure :)

The thing about sales is, you need to be solving something. Someone
who is happy with their ipod and its dock is lacking a problem to
solve. Someone who's not happy with that solution is a potential
prospect, but if they have a problem with running a computer
full-time, this isn't the right solution for them, unless they're
happy with SqueezeNetwork only. As that pool of prospects grows, the
"canned Slimserver" product that gets discussed from time to time
becomes more important. If I had to predict what's next in the product
lineup, I'd certainly look in that direction.

> I was a little surprised that I couldn't get anyone else interested in
> one, since my circle of friends and acquaintances includes a lot of
> engineers and programmers, as well as music lovers. I'm admittedly no
> salesman, but I would have thought I would have gotten _someone_ else
> to get one.

Only if they have a problem which matches the solution you're offering.

>
> Part of this is due to the fact that many of these people perceived the
> thing as fussy to set up. This seems like the biggest issue to me.

If you really want to sell some of these, start with the people in
your circle of friends who've bought home automation products. If
there aren't any, you might not have the right circle of friends for
this product :)

>
> And let's face it: lots of the people I'm concerned with do have ipods,
> so the problem isn't that they don't like computer based audio products.

You might as well try to sell Squeezeboxes to people who don't own stereos.

--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional

CardinalFang
2007-01-14, 12:02
"Ah, Henny Penny," said Chicken Little, "the sky is falling, and I must go and tell the king."

I sincerely hope the Slim team don't adopt that ostrich-like approach. Whether it turns out to be a threat or not, when the 800 pound gorilla comes stomping into your market, you'd best take notice.

peter
2007-01-14, 12:57
adamslim wrote:
> EnochLight;169981 Wrote:
>
>> I dunno, AppleTV may take *some* customers, but wipe out a chunk of
>> their sales?
>>
>
> I think the Apple and Slim customers are very different:
>

I've noticed that the SqueezeBox has always been popular with the Apple
community. I bought two of my SB's from a Mac dealer. I've seen quite a
few OS/X users here.

Me, I've got an Airport Express (don't use the audio) and no plans to
buy more Apple stuff. I'm not too fond of the combination of religion
and restriction.

Regards,
Peter

peter
2007-01-14, 13:03
totoro wrote:
> Jack Coates;170211 Wrote:
>
>> On 1/14/07, totoro <totoro.2kei9n1168779301 (AT) no-mx (DOT)
>> forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I love my sb3. As far as I'm concerned, my quality of life improved
>>>
>> a
>>
>>> lot when I got it.
>>>
>>> But I haven't been able to convince any of my friends to get one.
>>>
>> One
>>
>>> friend _did_ decide to build a quiet pc and stick it in his living
>>>
>> room
>>
>>> with a dac, but that's as close as I got.
>>>
>>>
>> World population: 6,525,170,264 (July 2006 est.)
>>
>> This website (http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats7.htm) gives an
>> English-speaking Internet users estimate of 327,084,785.
>>
>> 1 percent market penetration is 3,270,847 people, who buy an
>> guesstimated average of 2.5 Squeezeboxes each, maybe for a total price
>> of $600 or so (sales and freebies and what have you).
>>
>> That's $1,962,508,200. In other words, products can be successful
>> without anyone you know buying them.
>> --
>> "I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
>> So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional
>>
>
> Yes, I can add and subtract, too. As you might have noticed, I was
> talking about my inability to get anyone else to by one.
>
> I was a little surprised that I couldn't get anyone else interested in
> one, since my circle of friends and acquaintances includes a lot of
> engineers and programmers, as well as music lovers. I'm admittedly no
> salesman, but I would have thought I would have gotten _someone_ else
> to get one.
>
> Part of this is due to the fact that many of these people perceived the
> thing as fussy to set up. This seems like the biggest issue to me.
>
> And let's face it: lots of the people I'm concerned with do have ipods,
> so the problem isn't that they don't like computer based audio products.
>

I have the same experience. I inspired only one colleague to buy one. I
even loaned my SB1 to the others but they weren't sufficiently
interested. Funny thing is that quite a few of them are using
slimserver/softsqueeze to play their music, but they don't get the hardware.

I guess a factor is that many of them live in small houses, where
playing music on your PC is feasable. In a bigger house like mine
(Europe standards) an multi-SB3 setup is really very nice.

Regards,
Peter
..

stinkingpig
2007-01-14, 13:06
On 1/14/07, CardinalFang
<CardinalFang.2kezeb1168801501 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
> Jack Coates;170208 Wrote:
> > "Ah, Henny Penny," said Chicken Little, "the sky is falling, and I must
> > go and tell the king."
>
> I sincerely hope the Slim team don't adopt that ostrich-like approach.
> Whether it turns out to be a threat or not, when the 800 pound gorilla
> comes stomping into your market, you'd best take notice.
>

I'm just remembering the predictions of doom which have followed every
single entrance into this market by every single large consumer
electronics producer (doubled whenever it's Apple, even if the product
doesn't actually compete). And yet, doom has failed to occur. Maybe
you're right and this is the one which will finally do it, but right
now I'm feeling good about mocking the doom-saying.

--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional

CardinalFang
2007-01-14, 13:26
OI'm just remembering the predictions of doom which have followed every single entrance into this market by every single large consumer
electronics producer (doubled whenever it's Apple, even if the product
doesn't actually compete). And yet, doom has failed to occur. Maybe
you're right and this is the one which will finally do it, but right
now I'm feeling good about mocking the doom-saying.


Why should it be doom? I know I'll never convince any diehard Slim owner to change their view. Most have invested a great deal of time and effort into the product and would never let go, but there are people like me who find the product equally enjoyable and frustrating and are more open minded to change.

I sincerely hope this is the kick that gets Slim to rethink a product that has effectively remained static for a number of years. Apart from the transporter, it's been evolutionary improvements and tweaks and not big jumps to outrun competitors. The weak point has always been usability and the geekiness of the product, but Sonos and others have never really shaken the fan base. The entrance of Apple may perhaps spur Slim on to creating something truly a step ahead of the competition and one more suitable for the larger market. As I said, my next purchase is more likely to be Apple instead of Slim just based on value for money and usability if the sound quality is equivalent or better.

totoro
2007-01-14, 13:37
>>Sorry to offend, I was trying to reassure :)

Thanks. Sorry I snapped at you.

>>If you really want to sell some of these, start with the people >>in your circle of friends who've bought home automation >>products. If there aren't any, you might not have the right >>circle of friends for this product :)
Home automation products?? Other than the usual washing machine, etc? I don't even know what these things are, so maybe you're right.

>>You might as well try to sell Squeezeboxes to people who don't >>own stereos.

Yeah, but these people all do. Another friend and I even got the MIT kid to return his bose system he had just bought (they give a huge discount to MIT students) and get a musical fidelity/triangle/rel setup.

I had high hopes for him.

westiebj
2007-03-25, 09:52
read the small print at the bootom of the page ...
"the recipient will have the option to pay £5 to read the message"

iainhar@aol.com
2007-11-14, 08:21
If you read the small print at the bottom, the recipient has the option
of paying £5 to read the message! Nothing in life is free!


-----Original Message-----
From: rachel81 <rachel81.301ken1195049401 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
To: discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
Sent: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 2.07pm
Subject: Re: [slim] Apple Iphone= Idiotphone?






I Just came accross this site, <<SPAMVERTISED LINK>> and it seems to
offer free SMS messages, for the UK at least, has anyone ever used
them?


--
rachel81
------------------------------------------------------------------------
rachel81's Profile:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13987
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31507

iPhone
2007-11-14, 14:29
Don't be afraid of what you have not used or have not owned. Come on in the water is fine, no really it is. To each his own, and the iPhone works well for and has great value to me. One should not slam something they have not tried or even don’t need. At the price they are going for, somebody must need and like them!

Yes I own an iPhone. I paid $289US for mine brand new in the box with a hundred dollar Jawbone Bluetooth included in that $289 because I waited. Less then I paid for my BlackJack two and a half years ago. I own no Macs and have never owned an iPod.

Who cares about the battery? Battery technology has come a long way and by the time I need a new battery there will be a better cheaper phone available or I will buy a new one. I use my iPhone for about 14 hours a day never turning it off and get about a day and a half out of a charge. And when it gets low, I just stick it in the dock and load new tunes on it while it charges.

The memory issue does not even exist. How many other cell phones can expand to 8GBs much less come with 8 gigs? Answer, not many and the ones that are coming are only there because of the iPhone. Have you priced an 8GB MicroSD that will not come with the phone you buy? Can I fill the phone up, with over 5000 CDs ripped, you bet I can. But I don’t need every song I own with me all the time. All I need are the best of my favorites, which takes up about 6 GB. That is over 5 days of music listening to it straight (don’t think I can stay awake that long).

The WiFi works great (full real web pages not that mobile crap!)! And when not in WiFi coverage it falls back to Edge automatically. If one can't afford $20 a month for unlimited data, move back home to the parent's basement and turn in your cellular phone!

The touch screen is wonderful and the ability to do landscape or portrait is a fantastic function. I have owned every Blackberry known to man and tried every “Smart” phone and pocket PC (Cingular Wireless allows to you return any phone in two weeks for something else). None of them came close to allowing me to work away from home the way the iPhone has. I used to be chained to my 9-pound laptop when I left the house, now I grab my iPhone and don’t give it a second thought. I get all my E-mail, can react to any Market Alert, receive phone calls, and buy or sell options mobile on the actual website instead of the stripped down mobile websites that will not let you do complex spreads or iron condors.

Plus as others have said, if nothing else, the iPhone will make the other phone makes put out a better product. I believe the iPhone has sold more initial retail sales then any other cell phone in history. And when it gets to the give away stage in two years for $59.95 plus a two year contract extension, it will most likely become the world’s best selling cell phone ever.

shadowboxer
2007-11-14, 22:19
Don't be afraid of what you have not used or have not owned. Come on in the water is fine, no really it is. To each his own, and the iPhone works well for and has great value to me. One should not slam something they have not tried or even don’t need. At the price they are going for, somebody must need and like them!

Yes I own an iPhone. I paid $289US for mine brand new in the box with a hundred dollar Jawbone Bluetooth included in that $289 because I waited. Less then I paid for my BlackJack two and a half years ago. I own no Macs and have never owned an iPod.

Who cares about the battery? Battery technology has come a long way and by the time I need a new battery there will be a better cheaper phone available or I will buy a new one. I use my iPhone for about 14 hours a day never turning it off and get about a day and a half out of a charge. And when it gets low, I just stick it in the dock and load new tunes on it while it charges.

The memory issue does not even exist. How many other cell phones can expand to 8GBs much less come with 8 gigs? Answer, not many and the ones that are coming are only there because of the iPhone. Have you priced an 8GB MicroSD that will not come with the phone you buy? Can I fill the phone up, with over 5000 CDs ripped, you bet I can. But I don’t need every song I own with me all the time. All I need are the best of my favorites, which takes up about 6 GB. That is over 5 days of music listening to it straight (don’t think I can stay awake that long).

The WiFi works great (full real web pages not that mobile crap!)! And when not in WiFi coverage it falls back to Edge automatically. If one can't afford $20 a month for unlimited data, move back home to the parent's basement and turn in your cellular phone!

The touch screen is wonderful and the ability to do landscape or portrait is a fantastic function. I have owned every Blackberry known to man and tried every “Smart” phone and pocket PC (Cingular Wireless allows to you return any phone in two weeks for something else). None of them came close to allowing me to work away from home the way the iPhone has. I used to be chained to my 9-pound laptop when I left the house, now I grab my iPhone and don’t give it a second thought. I get all my E-mail, can react to any Market Alert, receive phone calls, and buy or sell options mobile on the actual website instead of the stripped down mobile websites that will not let you do complex spreads or iron condors.

Plus as others have said, if nothing else, the iPhone will make the other phone makes put out a better product. I believe the iPhone has sold more initial retail sales then any other cell phone in history. And when it gets to the give away stage in two years for $59.95 plus a two year contract extension, it will most likely become the world’s best selling cell phone ever.


Yeah, what he said! Coming from a long line os smartphones (i300,i330,i500, several treos), iphone blows them all away in terms of shear simple joyful useability.

mvalera
2007-11-15, 16:51
Do not insult the jesus phone! Steve Jobs knows where you live.

Mike

BTW I heart mine.