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Ur[s]uS
2007-01-08, 14:49
FYI - Today, Sonos announced a software update for its music setups, which will allow users to listen to Microsoft DRM-encoded music. Version 2.1 includes tracks purchased from AOL Music Now, URGE, Napster, Wal-Mart, Yahoo! Music Unlimited, Zune Marketplace and adds "improved playlist and volume normalization support" for iTunes 7.0. It also brings full compatibility with Windows Vista and Windows Media Player 11.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/sonos-adds-support-for-microsoft-drmed-music-files/

Logitech/Slim next?

SuperQ
2007-01-08, 23:44
uS;168336']
Logitech/Slim next?

bleh.. DRM.. I'd rather have engineer hours spent doing useful things like working on UI or speed improvements.

mflint
2007-01-09, 02:18
"Bleh" from me too - though I'm sure it'll help Sonos' marketing people push for more market share.

I think you'd struggle to find anyone (apart from record company execs) who think DRM is a great idea. The only way for DRM to ultimately succeed is by companies like Slim and Sonos deciding to support it. I sincerely hope Slim don't go the same route.

Thanks but no thanks Sonos! :-{

peter
2007-01-09, 05:20
mflint wrote:
> "Bleh" from me too - though I'm sure it'll help Sonos' marketing people
> push for more market share.
>
> I think you'd struggle to find anyone (apart from record company execs)
> who think DRM is a great idea. The only way for DRM to ultimately
> succeed is by companies like Slim and Sonos deciding to support it. I
> sincerely hope Slim don't go the same route.
>

I suspect the combination of DRM and Open Source makes things a bit
difficult anyway. Unless they build teh DRM stuff in the (closed) device
firmware.

Regards,
Peter

CCRDude
2007-01-09, 05:45
Why would that be?

OpenSSL is a very good open implementation of secure stuff as well.

DRM just means that a private key (which is not open of course, doesn't need to be) is used to unlock a file... and if the DRM algorithm is any good, publishing it (the algo) openly won't do it any harm.

But a reason for having it on the firmware would probably be because it otherwise would be a method to circumvent the DRM (by capturing the unlocked stream).

I don't need or want it either btw, experience showed that any real CD (or open format) lives much longer for me than closed stuff.

peter
2007-01-09, 06:42
CCRDude wrote:
> Why would that be?
>
> OpenSSL is a very good open implementation of secure stuff as well.
>
> DRM just means that a private key (which is not open of course, doesn't
> need to be) is used to unlock a file... and if the DRM algorithm is any
> good, publishing it (the algo) openly won't do it any harm.
>

The problem with DRM is that they give the user the key and the
algorithm and then try to prevent him from sharing the key by hiding it
somewhere on his own system. It's difficult to hide things in an open
source program. In the case of the broken DVD encryption, the encryption
key was stored on the playback devices and the playback software. The
guy who cracked it recovered the key from a windows DVD player program
that stored it in RAM while running AFAIK.
> But a reason for having it on the firmware would probably be because it
> otherwise would be a method to circumvent the DRM (by capturing the
> unlocked stream).
>

That too.. ;)

> I don't need or want it either btw, experience showed that any real CD
> (or open format) lives much longer for me than closed stuff.
>

I would never by a DRM'ed song. I'd consider getting a DRM'ed movie,
because you mostly watch them only once.

Regards,
Peter

CouchPotatoe
2007-01-09, 09:44
SuperQ wrote:
> 'Ur[s Wrote:
>
>> uS;168336']
>> Logitech/Slim next?
>>
>
> bleh.. DRM.. I'd rather have engineer hours spent doing useful things
> like working on UI or speed improvements.
>
>
>
Not bleh, and I wouldn't !!

Now international users (with a Windows PC ) can use music services
like Napster giving us their whole library catalogue to play. Rhapsody
isn't available outside the US. The DRM isn't a big thing to me as I
don't purchase DRM'd music but the library access is so its a means to
an end. This is important for Slim too due to Rhapsody not being usable
overseas and the viable alternatives all using DRM (Napster etc). For
Slim to remain competitive in international markets it has to offer
access to some library service like this.


K

Gildahl
2007-01-09, 13:58
I for one am NOT looking for DRM support. It may sound good on the surface for some folks but it is definitely walking down the wrong path.

JJZolx
2007-01-09, 14:09
From a sales and marketing standpoint, it would be incredibly shortsighted not to pursue support for DRM. There are realities of the marketplace that dictate what features a product in a certain niche must have. It looks like Sonos just raised the bar a bit and if playback of DRM'd music is important to someone, that system is now an option, while the Squeezebox is not.

ModelCitizen
2007-01-09, 14:47
From a sales and marketing standpoint, it would be incredibly shortsighted not to pursue support for DRM. There are realities of the marketplace that dictate what features a product in a certain niche must have. It looks like Sonos just raised the bar a bit and if playback of DRM'd music is important to someone, that system is now an option, while the Squeezebox is not.
I couldn't agree more, much as I detest DRM (but I sort of assume that I am in the minority and that the vast masses of people just accept it). I do wonder what is costs Sonos per unit. As the cost of their stuff is high I guess it makes less difference to the final unit price when compared with a more specialist lower priced product.
MC

cliveb
2007-01-10, 02:46
From a sales and marketing standpoint, it would be incredibly shortsighted not to pursue support for DRM. There are realities of the marketplace that dictate what features a product in a certain niche must have.
Quite so. The average man in the street who buys some DRM'd music won't want to go through any hassle to play it on his devices - he'll just want it to work.

HOWEVER... the dominant DRM in the marketplace right now is the Apple one. From the perspective of the number of potential new customers you could attract, supporting Apple's DRM is what's needed. But of course it's a closed system, and Apple refuse to licence it to others.

At last November's What HiFi show, the Sonos guy told me that they have the technical ability to play Apple DRM'd stuff, and that only legal reasons prevent them from doing so. This implies that Apple DRM has been cracked. In which case, given the open source nature of Slimserver, I can't see how a third party could be prevented from building and releasing a SS plugin to transcode Apple DRM'd content into something that can then be streamed to a Squeezebox. (Or maybe the Sonos guy was full of sh*t, and Apple's DRM has not yet been cracked).

peter
2007-01-10, 04:10
cliveb wrote:
> JJZolx;168672 Wrote:
>
>> From a sales and marketing standpoint, it would be incredibly
>> shortsighted not to pursue support for DRM. There are realities of the
>> marketplace that dictate what features a product in a certain niche must
>> have.
>>
> Quite so. The average man in the street who buys some DRM'd music won't
> want to go through any hassle to play it on his devices - he'll just
> want it to work.
>
> HOWEVER... the dominant DRM in the marketplace right now is the Apple
> one. From the perspective of the number of potential new customers you
> could attract, supporting Apple's DRM is what's needed. But of course
> it's a closed system, and Apple refuse to licence it to others.
>
> At last November's What HiFi show, the Sonos guy told me that they have
> the technical ability to play Apple DRM'd stuff, and that only legal
> reasons prevent them from doing so. This implies that Apple DRM has
> been cracked. In which case, given the open source nature of
> Slimserver, I can't see how a third party could be prevented from
> building and releasing a SS plugin to transcode Apple DRM'd content
> into something that can then be streamed to a Squeezebox. (Or maybe the
> Sonos guy was full of sh*t, and Apple's DRM has not yet been cracked).
>

The guy who cracked the DVD DRM, apparently has reverse engineered the
format and is 'licensing'
it to companies that want to support AAC files:

http://gigaom.com/2006/10/02/dvd-jon-fairplays-apple/

Dunno if it's legal... ;)

Regards,
Peter