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mrfantasy
2007-01-07, 11:42
It looks like (http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7056717365.html) the Nokia N800 is out, at least in the US.

This is the replacement for the 770, with twice the RAM, faster CPU, and full size SD slots. Should work very well with the 770 skin, I'm assuming performance should be much improved.

I'd get one but have to wait a few months for my gadget karma to increase again.

notanatheist
2007-01-07, 15:28
Thanks for the post Mike. I was just searching new posts too see if anyone had mentioned it yet. Maybe the 770 will be available on Ebay for cheap for anyone upgrading or clearing out. I just brought another SB3 home so no little tablet for me for a couple months.

TCM
2007-01-08, 07:45
Here are some pictures

http://www.flickr.com/photos/5th_avenue/sets/72157594461870146/

Fifer
2007-01-08, 08:14
I'm happy with my 770. (I wonder how long that'll last ... )

sbjaerum
2007-01-08, 08:18
Official Nokia information:
www.nseries.com/n800

bklaas
2007-01-08, 08:48
The official Nokia flash thingy didn't really show anything that the 770 can't do. My guess is that it would require a hands-on to really get a feel for whether big improvements had been made performance-wise.

Screen res is the same, and Opera 8 is still the browser (the OS package in its entirety is likely to be the same), so the Nokia770 skin will work the same on this device.

So, digest of improvements:
2 memory card slots, and they are SD instead of RS-MMC. Some users report success with 4GB SD cards. That's fantastic--it means you could beef it up to 8GB of storage, making it worthy of both PMP and/or decent mp3 storage. I use my 770 on trips to store and watch videos (it works *great* for this, although you have to reformat the video to a res the 770 can handle). The 770 supports a 1GB RS-MMC card, which gives me about 5 hours of content. I'd love to boost that by 8x.

Integrated webcam. Kind of cool, but I can't imagine I'd have much use of this. To video conference with all my friends with N800s? Unlikely. I don't want them to see me pickin' goobers anyway.

Increased CPU, from 220 to 320Mhz. This may be nice, but I think the real performance upgrades on this platform needed are in WiFi and battery life.

Increased on-board flash memory from 128 to 256. That was definitely needed.

Built-in stereo speakers, replacing built-in mono of 770. This one also matters naught to me--if you want to hear decent audio on this platform you need headphones plugged in.

Built-in "kickstand". This probably costs Nokia next to nothing in cost, but it's probably the feature upgrade I'm most pleased to see. Sometimes it's the little things that make the biggest difference.

Nice to see Nokia continuing to develop on this platform. I don't really get a clear vision of how well the internet tablet thing is going for them-- there are still a lot of people porting open source stuff on to maemo.org, but I've quit looking at the main forum for 770 users, internettablettalk, because it's largely garbage and doesn't have the kind of interesting discussions you'd hope (compared to this forum, which is wildly successful, if a little contentious lately).

I'm certainly not going to be rushing out to purchase one of these, but if one landed in my lap I'd be pretty psyched.

cheers,
#!/ben

Skunk
2007-01-08, 09:02
I would love to see the page but arghh!, Flash7.

Logitech should make one of these things, but I guess it's a PC moreso than peripheral. I bought my girlfriend a 32" LCD HDTV with tuner for $500, so there's a margin to be made :-)

bklaas
2007-01-08, 09:12
I would love to see the page but arghh!, Flash7.


Skunk-- that statement makes me think you are a linux guy. You might want to check out the Flash 9 beta that's now available for linux--
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer9/

I had to jump through some ugly hoops to make this work on my Gentoo system, but it should probably work well on a more widespread Linux distro like Fedora/SuSe/Ubuntu.

cheers,
#!/ben

Robin Bowes
2007-01-08, 09:14
Skunk wrote:
> I would love to see the page but arghh!, Flash7.

Yeah, me too.

R.

Skunk
2007-01-08, 09:19
Skunk-- that statement makes me think you are a linux guy.

Thanks Ben, I actually use windoze. It wouldn't load for me initially so I searched the Web and saw someone blogging that they couldn't see the site on their Nokia due to Flash7.

It loaded last time w/ the same link, where it was freezing mozilla before, so either the server was busy or Flash loaded itself into my browser.

This is the link that ended up showing up http://web.nseries.com/products/n800/#l=products,n800

fuzzyT
2007-01-08, 13:31
bklaas wrote:
> Increased CPU, from 220 to 320Mhz. This may be nice, but I think the
> real performance upgrades on this platform needed are in WiFi and
> battery life.

You might not want to discount the CPU speed bump just based on the MHz
diff. I haven't seen the CPU model number posted, but apparently it's a
new class that isn't directly comparable in a MIPS-to-MHz fashion.
Perhaps OMAP2420 in the N800 instead of OMAP1710 in the 770.

The new proc looks to have a DSP, and real hardware FPU (very useful for
A/V codecs) and posts (notably bogus, and a single test, but...)
BogoMIPS of 320.37 vs 125.76 from the 770.

The upshot being that between the CPU and memory bumps the new device
could be significantly, noticeably, usefully faster than the 770.

I know I'm curious enough to head down to the local CompUSA for a test
drive.

See:
http://thoughtfix.blogspot.com/2007/01/critical-question-answered-yes-n800-is.html
http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-January/006812.html

--rt

boerner
2007-01-08, 15:19
The official Nokia flash thingy didn't really show anything that the 770 can't do. My guess is that it would require a hands-on to really get a feel for whether big improvements had been made performance-wise.

Screen res is the same, and Opera 8 is still the browser (the OS package in its entirety is likely to be the same), so the Nokia770 skin will work the same on this device.

So, digest of improvements:
2 memory card slots, and they are SD instead of RS-MMC. Some users report success with 4GB SD cards. That's fantastic--it means you could beef it up to 8GB of storage, making it worthy of both PMP and/or decent mp3 storage. I use my 770 on trips to store and watch videos (it works *great* for this, although you have to reformat the video to a res the 770 can handle). The 770 supports a 1GB RS-MMC card, which gives me about 5 hours of content. I'd love to boost that by 8x.

Integrated webcam. Kind of cool, but I can't imagine I'd have much use of this. To video conference with all my friends with N800s? Unlikely. I don't want them to see me pickin' goobers anyway.

Increased CPU, from 220 to 320Mhz. This may be nice, but I think the real performance upgrades on this platform needed are in WiFi and battery life.

Increased on-board flash memory from 128 to 256. That was definitely needed.

Built-in stereo speakers, replacing built-in mono of 770. This one also matters naught to me--if you want to hear decent audio on this platform you need headphones plugged in.

Built-in "kickstand". This probably costs Nokia next to nothing in cost, but it's probably the feature upgrade I'm most pleased to see. Sometimes it's the little things that make the biggest difference.

Nice to see Nokia continuing to develop on this platform. I don't really get a clear vision of how well the internet tablet thing is going for them-- there are still a lot of people porting open source stuff on to maemo.org, but I've quit looking at the main forum for 770 users, internettablettalk, because it's largely garbage and doesn't have the kind of interesting discussions you'd hope (compared to this forum, which is wildly successful, if a little contentious lately).

I'm certainly not going to be rushing out to purchase one of these, but if one landed in my lap I'd be pretty psyched.

cheers,
#!/ben

Well, I can't do much, but I would be willing to kickstart an N800 fund for Ben :-)

I tried this earlier with another developer to get Slimserver integrated with the FreeNAS project, but the work never got done and he refunded my money.

In appreciation for the work on the 770 skin that Ben has done, I will be the first to drop $30 USD into a Paypal account, working towards the $399 USD the N800 costs.

Thoughts?

Skunk
2007-01-08, 15:29
In appreciation for the work on the 770 skin that Ben has done, I will be the first to drop $30 USD into a Paypal account, working towards the $399 USD the N800 costs.

Thoughts?

I'm in if you set up the account (possibly only $20 though, I don't use the skin ATM :)

Robin Bowes
2007-01-08, 15:30
boerner wrote:
> bklaas;168232 Wrote:
>> The official Nokia flash thingy didn't really show anything that the 770
>> can't do. My guess is that it would require a hands-on to really get a
>> feel for whether big improvements had been made performance-wise.
>>
>> Screen res is the same, and Opera 8 is still the browser (the OS
>> package in its entirety is likely to be the same), so the Nokia770 skin
>> will work the same on this device.
>>
>> So, digest of improvements:
>> 2 memory card slots, and they are SD instead of RS-MMC. Some users
>> report success with 4GB SD cards. That's fantastic--it means you could
>> beef it up to 8GB of storage, making it worthy of both PMP and/or
>> decent mp3 storage. I use my 770 on trips to store and watch videos (it
>> works *great* for this, although you have to reformat the video to a res
>> the 770 can handle). The 770 supports a 1GB RS-MMC card, which gives me
>> about 5 hours of content. I'd love to boost that by 8x.
>>
>> Integrated webcam. Kind of cool, but I can't imagine I'd have much use
>> of this. To video conference with all my friends with N800s? Unlikely.
>> I don't want them to see me pickin' goobers anyway.
>>
>> Increased CPU, from 220 to 320Mhz. This may be nice, but I think the
>> real performance upgrades on this platform needed are in WiFi and
>> battery life.
>>
>> Increased on-board flash memory from 128 to 256. That was definitely
>> needed.
>>
>> Built-in stereo speakers, replacing built-in mono of 770. This one also
>> matters naught to me--if you want to hear decent audio on this platform
>> you need headphones plugged in.
>>
>> Built-in "kickstand". This probably costs Nokia next to nothing in
>> cost, but it's probably the feature upgrade I'm most pleased to see.
>> Sometimes it's the little things that make the biggest difference.
>>
>> Nice to see Nokia continuing to develop on this platform. I don't
>> really get a clear vision of how well the internet tablet thing is
>> going for them-- there are still a lot of people porting open source
>> stuff on to maemo.org, but I've quit looking at the main forum for 770
>> users, internettablettalk, because it's largely garbage and doesn't
>> have the kind of interesting discussions you'd hope (compared to this
>> forum, which is wildly successful, if a little contentious lately).
>>
>> I'm certainly not going to be rushing out to purchase one of these, but
>> if one landed in my lap I'd be pretty psyched.
>>
>> cheers,
>> #!/ben
>
> Well, I can't do much, but I would be willing to kickstart an N800 fund
> for Ben :-)
>
> I tried this earlier with another developer to get Slimserver
> integrated with the FreeNAS project, but the work never got done and he
> refunded my money.
>
> In appreciation for the work on the 770 skin that Ben has done, I will
> be the first to drop $30 USD into a Paypal account, working towards the
> $399 USD the N800 costs.

Hey,

You could give me money towards an N800 too :)

R.

jpj
2007-01-09, 10:04
I got my N800 yesterday ($399 at CompUSA), and WOW, haven't been so impressed in the bang-for-the-buck category since, well, the Squeezebox.

Obviously the Nokia770 skin is the balls (thanks, Ben!) and although I don't have the older model for direct comparison, popular opinion suggests the next-gen processor has made a big difference in performance beyond mere MHz.

The dual memory slots certainly are a capacity bonanza. Developers can even set up a simple multiboot system by swapping cards in the internal slot after setting the config to start preferentially start from an ext2 or ext3 partition if present.

If the maemo PDA apps are any good, I'll probably be dumping my Palm T5, whose display now looks unacceptably crude by comparison.

fuzzyT
2007-01-09, 10:22
A quick hands-on with the N800 from AnandTech:

"Overall, the unit feels like a big improvement over the 770. When I
reviewed the older unit, I found it to be slow and underpowered. In
contrast, the N800 feels much more responsive. The faster CPU, doubled
RAM, and new OS (Internet Tablet 2007 OS) appear to have made a big
difference, especially when it comes to multitasking."

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070109-8575.html

--rt

bklaas
2007-01-09, 12:58
A quick hands-on with the N800 from AnandTech:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070109-8575.html

--rt

This hands-on review reports a big increase in performance.
Also:
GPS functionality when used with the "Nokia Navigation Kit", whatever that is. Intriguing.

Skype client coming this year (gizmo already works well on the 770, but Skype is what the masses want)

they've certainly piqued my interest...
#!/ben

TCM
2007-01-09, 13:12
This hands-on review reports a big increase in performance.
Also:
GPS functionality when used with the "Nokia Navigation Kit", whatever that is. Intriguing.

Skype client coming this year (gizmo already works well on the 770, but Skype is what the masses want)

they've certainly piqued my interest...
#!/ben

Test of Navigation Kit for the Nokia 770 (http://www.advogato.org/person/pycage/diary.html?start=46).

I've attached a pdf describing "Navigation Kit for Nokia N800 Internet Tablet". Just un-zip it.

kdf
2007-01-09, 13:40
they've certainly piqued my interest...
#!/ben

sure, but it would mean you have to rename the skin ;)
-kdf

bklaas
2007-01-09, 14:26
sure, but it would mean you have to rename the skin ;)
-kdf

what should I call it? RootOfAllEvil? I see your ;) and raise you a :-P

But seriously...nice post on the Nav kit, TCM. Since I work from home and rarely drive anywhere (thankfully), I'm not sure it's that useful to me, but then gadget lust is not always only about utility. The thing that jumped out about your summary of the kit was that you can't simultaneously charge the 770/800 and the GPS unit. Bwaaa? That's truly lame, considering its intended purpose.

cheers,
#!/ben

utowana
2007-01-09, 14:33
I could not wait and purchased one of the two units delivered to my local CompUSA. Up and running as soon as the battery was charged. Not familiar with the Nokia770 skin, but it loaded right up and I'm off and running controlling my desktop/winamp/slimserver combo (thanks for the WIKI entry). Next step is to control the SB in my living room from my dining room. Now, my wife cannot deny me a second SB for the bedroom. My goal is to never have to move. Way to go guys. Very cool. Planning on a serious play session tonight.

jpj
2007-01-09, 14:47
The thing that jumped out about your summary of the kit was that you can't simultaneously charge the 770/800 and the GPS unit.

Since both units share the same connector and power specs, it shouldn't be difficult to graft an extra plug onto the car charger cable, assuming you don't want to use two chargers with a 2-in-1 dashboard adapter.

NigelMSB
2007-01-09, 19:36
I'm certainly not going to be rushing out to purchase one of these, but if one landed in my lap I'd be pretty psyched.
Perhaps you'd be eligible for the Maemo Developer Device Program (http://www.maemo.org/). ;-) (For developers porting applications to Maemo, I guess - shame.)

funkstar
2007-01-10, 06:50
The new proc looks to have a DSP, and real hardware FPU (very useful for
A/V codecs) and posts (notably bogus, and a single test, but...)
BogoMIPS of 320.37 vs 125.76 from the 770.
Now that is interesting. Especially when another new feature is uPnP client support :)

I think i read on Engadget (or somewhere similar) of a speed doubling of the CPU, i thought they just meant clock rate, but a full CPU replacement makes sense. I guess Nokia realised that people want to use this for more than just Web Tablet functions, such as media playback. So a real FPU is definitely a massive boost. Any ideas what DSP functions are available? Hardware MPEG-2/4 acceleration? Video scaling? both of those would make a massive difference to the usability as media device.

jpj
2007-01-10, 07:32
Any ideas what DSP functions are available? Hardware MPEG-2/4 acceleration? Video scaling? both of those would make a massive difference to the usability as media device.

Here's the Texas Instruments spec sheet for the OMAP 2420:
http://dspvillage.ti.com/pdfs/omap2architecture.pdf

Skunk
2007-01-10, 19:31
Spotted an 800 in the wild (compUsa). The first thing that caught my attention were scratches on the display. After attempting to rub the marks off to no avail, I lightly scraped the display with my thumbnail and sure enough it was permanently marked. I do mean lightly too.

They had the 770 next to it, which seems to have a glass coating. Scratching this one hard left no mark. Unless it was a lot faster with slimserver, I would probably go with the 770 for durability alone.

jpj
2007-01-10, 20:54
I'd say there's a strong chance those scratches were in the protective film covering the display, which would ordinarily be removed by the consumer. As shipped, there's an obvious adhesive tab intended to lift the film, which on my unit merely separated itself, leaving the film intact. Only *very* close inspection revealed the edge, which I then lifted with a fingernail. Although the film is very thin and very transparent, I wouldn't expect it to be as durable as the aftermarket screen protectors sold for PDAs and similar devices. Scratches on it wouldn't surprise me at all. Better check again and figure out what you really saw before jumping to conclusions. If you're still worried about durability, there's always the (disposable) aftermarket protector sheet.

jpj
2007-01-10, 21:16
I've attached a pdf describing "Navigation Kit for Nokia N800 Internet Tablet".

For those who don't want to wait, or want a less expensive solution, or love open source *grin*, or all of the above, there's another option.

How about an ultra-cool Bluetooth GPS receiver (street price $80 US)... http://www.semsons.com/ibhiseaublgp.html

...coupled with a full featured mapping/GPS app designed from scratch for the Nokia 770 (free): http://gnuite.com:8080/nokia770/maemo-mapper/

Apparently this combination works well on the Nokia N770 right now. N800 users will have to wait a bit longer while the author rebuilds for the 2007-OS target, as required by changes in the Bluetooth stack.

I'm personally unlikely to spend hundreds on the Nokia branded solution (list 199 Euros), but for small change and some tweaking, my money's on the little guys.

Skunk
2007-01-11, 08:19
Better check again and figure out what you really saw before jumping to conclusions.

Good advice. I'll revoke my statement until further investigation.

4mula1
2007-01-11, 08:40
I just got my N800 and it's pretty cool. We don't have any WiFi at work so it's home for lunch today. I guess that's when my wife will find out I bought it...

As far as the screen protector goes, it really is difficult to see. Nokia put an additional adhesive tab on the front to aid in removing it. Mine came off without a problem.

I can't wait to get home and point it at SlimServer...

Paul Webster
2007-01-11, 09:06
Re the OS on the N800 - it is a new version and not backwards compatible.
i.e. OS 2007 does not run on N770.
The different processor was reported as the key reason. I have also seen comments that some of the apps are making serious use of the extra power and would be way to sluggish for N770.

I'm sure that, once the source is out, there will be a community effort to get it working on N770 or to backport the best new bits into OS 2006.

Three is also a developers program - 500 units available at $100 (I think).

I also had a play on one at CompUSA - and it certainly did feel generally faster than my 770.

Paul

funkstar
2007-01-11, 09:24
Here's the Texas Instruments spec sheet for the OMAP 2420:
http://dspvillage.ti.com/pdfs/omap2architecture.pdf
Excellent, thanks for that.

Looks like full screen video should be a reality on that device then. There is an Imaging Video Accelerator and a 2D/3D Graphics Accelerator which would both help.

The processor can be scaled up to 1ghz, but by the looks of things the IVA is outside the main processor block, so might run at the same speed whatever the core clock.

NauticusLX
2007-01-13, 14:12
Let's have some DETAILS of your experiences using the N800 with your Slim Devices. Will the N800 run SoftSqueeze? I'd like to access (and play) my internet radio favorites on the N800. Is this possible? It does have stereo speakers I hear. I imagine the N800 replacing my regular radio/alarm clock, while I slumber off with Cafe Cody (Myorca, Spain) lulling me to sleep. Is this possible?

aubuti
2007-01-13, 15:16
Let's have some DETAILS of your experiences using the N800 with your Slim Devices. Will the N800 run SoftSqueeze? I'd like to access (and play) my internet radio favorites on the N800. Is this possible? It does have stereo speakers I hear. I imagine the N800 replacing my regular radio/alarm clock, while I slumber off with Cafe Cody (Myorca, Spain) lulling me to sleep. Is this possible?
Those are good questions, but given the Java overhead involved with SoftSqueeze and the fact that the Nokia is a web tablet, wouldn't it be more direct just to stream from the Cafe Cody web page? Unless, of course, there's no suitable media player for the stream on the Nokia, which would be surprising.

jpj
2007-01-14, 00:03
There is no Java on the Nokia N800, hence no Softsqueeze. But there is an Internet radio applet on the standard Home desktop, plus a decent media player for local files, fancier open source players to download, and third party support (Oboe) for a free personal web music repository. I haven't found an alarm clock in the shipped configuration, but again you can probably take your pick from the online freeware catalogue.

The stereo speakers won't win any awards, but they are tolerable, a quality upgrade from the monophonic Nokia 770. You could also connect external powered speakers through the headphone jack. Both the unit itself and the supplied earbuds include a mike for internet phone calls, and of course there's the webcam. More A/V toys than I'm likely to use.

CardinalFang
2007-01-14, 07:08
I imagine the N800 replacing my regular radio/alarm clock, while I slumber off with Cafe Cody (Myorca, Spain) lulling me to sleep. Is this possible?

This may be what you want - it's a (free) media player for the 770/800 that plays Internet radio as well as local media:

http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS7980185689.html

The app also is UPnP compliant, so can play music off NAS devices that are also compliant with UPnP - can't remember if you can do that to SlimServer, but there are open source packages to add this feature to PCs and other devices. It's detailed on the page that's at the end of the link.

NauticusLX
2007-01-14, 11:49
jpj, rest assured there is an alarm clock, with snooze, on the Nokia N800. It's easily accessible in, I believe, the Utilities menu, as in the Nokia 770. Don't be hassled by 3rd party software when it's built-in.

NauticusLX
2007-01-14, 12:05
So many people seem to have the Nokia N800 already! I was at CompUSA last night, but they only had a floor model with no inventory for sale. Or is the clerk holding them for his favorite customers... What's going on?

NauticusLX
2007-01-14, 12:11
Another question about the onboard media player of the Nokia N800: when I'm playing an mp3 file, is there a way to fast forward, or jump ahead, like, an hour or so quickly? I record long radio shows (in mp3) and need to get to the point where I last left off in a reasonable amount of time.

NauticusLX
2007-01-14, 13:24
jpj, thanks for the tip on the oboe music repository, found at mp3tunes.com. This is truly a convergence of technologies. This is a great time to be alive. Really, this internet thing is so great! With things like the SqueezeBox, Nokia N800, and oboe music repository around, not to mention a broadband wireless connection, all of which have matured quite nicely, I wonder how long it will take before the typical rack stereo system, popularized back in the 70's, will continue to exist - the furniture alone needed to house these systems can be over $1,000. I shudder to think I just bought a new stereo receiver for $300, my other one having died after about 25 years but which I need to record some exclusive content on Sirius which can't be reliably obtained through online sources. The times they are a changin, and I think for the better!

NauticusLX
2007-01-14, 14:05
jpj (or anybody else), do you use the Oboe music archive? Is it possible to play tracks randomly, or some subset of music tracks randomly? Since learning that I could convert my entire CD collection to mp3 files, it'd be cool if I could have tracks play randomly from the entire archive of CD's, OR just from a subset of chosen CD's. Is this possible, using Oboe (or any other device or service)?

EnochLight
2007-01-14, 17:25
Well, I decided to take the plunge and drop the $399 necessary to pick an N800 up. It's charging right now, but I'm looking forward to playing with it during the season premier of "Rome" tonight. ;-)

Anyone know how long this should take to fully charge? Can the current 770 owners share how long theirs takes?

jpj
2007-01-14, 22:26
jpj, rest assured there is an alarm clock, with snooze, on the Nokia N800. It's easily accessible in, I believe, the Utilities menu, as in the Nokia 770. Don't be hassled by 3rd party software when it's built-in.

Right you are. I never had a 770 so I'm still getting used to the UI, missing some obvious stuff.

And I'm happy using the Squeezebox as my bedroom music/alarm system, but the N800 will come in handy that way on the road.

jpj
2007-01-14, 22:30
Anyone know how long this should take to fully charge?

Like most LIons, roughly 2 or 3 hours - depending on far it's discharged. Actually there's a decent partial charge even when you unbox it. How do I know? I had mine up and running before I left the CompUSA parking lot. Naw, I'm no fanatic, not me... LOL

NauticusLX
2007-01-15, 01:49
Enoch, where did you buy it? I tried to buy one last night, at CompUSA in the DC area, but they said they weren't "on sale" yet. Maybe I should buy it from the Nokia website.

4mula1
2007-01-15, 06:16
I bought mine from TigerDirect. In stock and I had it the next day shipped ground. I didn't care for the shipping price, but I'm sure Nokia would've charged me shipping and taken longer to arrive.

EnochLight
2007-01-15, 12:10
NauticusLX,

I got mine from CompUSA. Although their website doesn't show any, I called them and they said they that had 4 in stock at my local retail store (Dearborn/Detroit, MI).

I like the technology, and I've been playing with it since last night. It's pretty cool as a Squeezebox remote using Ben's 770 skin, but the amazement for me isn't as much since I've used my PSP in a similar fashion (minus the touch screen) for quite some time now.

I'm on the fence whether or not I will keep this. CompUSA claims a 21-day return policy with no restocking fee, so I'll give it another week or two before I decide. Here's the two main reasons:

1. It's pretty nifty and all, but web browsing isn't quite as convenient as I thought it would be. It works a ton better than my PSP ever did in WiFi hotspots, but it's still a little awkward. You absolutely have to use the stylus to do any amount of accurate touch navigation - unless you have twig-fingers. ;-P Also, although it supports Flash and has Opera, sites like Youtube are absolutely useless on the N800. Video playback is choppy and unwatchable, and this over a 802.11G wireless network!

2. The deal-breaker for me is that I cannot get it to work with my T-Mobile Dash as a Bluetooth modem. I was hoping it would have expanded my Internet surfing by this method, as my Dash - although an awesome smartphone - is still limited buy its screen size when surfing the web. I can get both devices to see eachother, and supposedly sync - but whenever I try to get my N800 to execute the phone as a modem, it fails. Of course, T-Mobile tech support is about as helpful as a canker sore, and I've not had much luck getting a hold of Nokia for advice. Anyone else try pairing a T-Mobile Dash + N800 for a Bluetooth modem?

On another note, I was able to get it to recognize my PC as a media server via Windows Media Player 11's Media Connect. Streamed mp3's without issue. Kinda cool. Video streaming wasn't as successful, and caused the N800 to lock-up forcing me to shut it down. I'm not sure if this was the files that it was attempting to play or what.. *shrugs*

I should also point out that the demo video file that came with it, a Nokia camcorder commercial with Gary Oldman, had slight choppy playback. I don't remember the Iceage demo video on the 770 having this problem. You can see how it *should* look at the Youtube link below. My N800 doesn't playback quite as smooth (I'm talking frame-rate here; image quality is superb). Any other N800 owners out there notice this?

Cheers!

Nokia N800 video demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G25HUO6KFNY

4mula1
2007-01-15, 13:01
Enoch:

I can tether my N800 with my Siemens SX1 and SL75 on T-Mo with my grandfathered $2.99 T-Zones <G>. Checking howardforums it looks like the dash isn't easy to tether with. Try this thread

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1034262&page=2&pp=15&highlight=tether+dash

Post 24 looks relevant. Do a search there in the T-Mobile (and child) forum(s) and you may find what you need.

What data plan do you have?

EnochLight
2007-01-15, 13:24
Hey thanks for the info. Looks like that post only applies to using your Dash with an actual PC; doesn't help me. However, I'll poke around those forums - thanks again.

My data plan through T-Mobile is "T-Mobile Total Internet".

4mula1
2007-01-15, 15:20
I've read some posts that the dash doesn't support DUN, which is means you can't tether with it. Maybe there's a way, but you should be on the right track now.

NauticusLX
2007-01-15, 23:33
EnochLight, have you tried moving your SqueezeBox radio favorites onto your N800? Are the urls compatible? How's the sound coming out of the N800 stereo speakers? Do you have to be next to the device to enjoy the sound? Do you have to be in a silent room to enjoy the sound, or is "enjoy" even the right word? Is there a tone control for the sound, or jazz/rock/voice presets or equilizer options? I'm hoping that if I use it as a bedside alarm clock and I'm in bed next to it that the sound will be enjoyable to some degree - is this a reasonable expectation? And if I get up and cross the room, can I still "enjoy" the sound, or is there noticeable falloff as one walks away from it? I'd appreciate your comments.

gusi
2007-01-16, 00:09
Is the N800 going to be avaiable in Australia and Asia?

For some obscure reason we have to import them ourselves from Europe or the US.

jpj
2007-01-16, 07:48
NauticusLX, some of the URLs work, others don't. I've only tried a few. The N800 supported streamable formats are listed as AAC, AMR, AWB, M4A, MP2, MP3, RA and WAV.

I wouldn't call the the internal speakers enjoyable, at least not for music. Tolerable is more accurate - roughly comparable to a speakerphone, both in quality (or lack thereof) and absence of controls other than volume.

Even a small external powered speaker would make a big difference. In my case, no way would this EVER displace my bedroom Squeezebox. It does make a great SB controller, though.

Ummm, do you actually own a Squeezebox yet? Just curious.

NauticusLX
2007-01-16, 17:50
jpj, I've owned a SqueezeBox since the week before Christmas, and am thrilled with it. When you say the N800 makes for a great SB controller, do you mean it can be used as a remote control for the SqueezeBox (2 remotes would be more useful than 1, I admit), or because it allows you to access the SqueezeNetwork website via Opera on the N800, such as for rearranging favorite radio stations, or to paste urls from the N800 radio app into the favorites page?

Also, what's your primary use of the N800, if you don't mind my asking?

jpj
2007-01-16, 21:35
NauticusLX, the "Nokia 770" skin for SlimServer has certainly sold more than a few 770s and N800s. Have you tried it yet? Just punch this URL into your N800 browser, then bookmark it:

http://<your-slimserver-host-ip>:9000/Nokia770/

You get all the extra functionality (and eye candy) of the web interface, and don't have to worry about line-of-sight. I have two Squeezeboxes and can control both from wherever I am.

That's really the application that originally put the 770 on my personal radar. I also have a Palm T5 for PDA functions and MP3 portability, and a RAZR V3m phone that can do some of the same things in a half-hearted way. Still, the RAZR fits so easily into a pocket (no belt clip, thanks) that mostly I use its calendar and leave the Palm home. Verizon's Mobile Web and VCAST whetted my appetite for Internet on the go, but the low res screen is rather limiting.

Armed with a couple 4GB SD cards, the N800 can carry an extensive music library and plenty of maps for the Maemo Mapper program (and Bluetooth GPS receiver). It finally makes coat pocket web browsing a reality, and with a Bluetooth keyboard will probably move a lot of my email handling away from the desktop. I expect to migrate from the Palm to open source alternatives, retiring that device. Essentially, I'll be using the N800 more like a modular laptop in a PDA form factor.

Beyond all that, as a professional software developer I'm really attracted to the N800 as a target for new applications, based on its ultra portable aspects and the open source paradigm. It's always fun to mix business and pleasure.

Mark Lanctot
2007-01-17, 09:52
Is the N800 going to be avaiable in Australia and Asia?

Or Canada, for that matter?

Although we can get it indirectly through tigerdirect.ca, which is just a Canadian web storefront for tigerdirect.com (US). The price looks bad, but it's a $30 premium over straight exchange - which is at least what you'd pay in duties.

Now that I can get it without having to import it my interest is fueled. Can't afford it as a Slim Devices remote, so it would have to be multipurpose. I'd love to be able to use it as an auto GPS along with Maemo Mapper but (a) my Dell Axim X31 is still working fine for this and (b) I can't figure out how Maemo Mapper gets its maps! It uses JPGs from Google Maps or something?

jpj
2007-01-17, 10:37
I can't figure out how Maemo Mapper gets its maps! It uses JPGs from Google Maps or something?

Actually the Google Maps files are .PNG format even though Maemo Mapper saves them with a .JPG extension.

MM works with street and topo maps from Google, USGS topography from Terraserver, and other compatible sources. Check the www.internettablettalk.com forums. You can keep multiple libraries stored and switch among them.

There's a built-in interface for downloading maps in advance by area (latitude/longitude range) or route, at user specified zoom levels. With a mobile data connection, you can also download automatically on the fly. Way cool... this is a killer app!

Mark Lanctot
2007-01-17, 11:51
Actually the Google Maps files are .PNG format even though Maemo Mapper saves them with a .JPG extension.

MM works with street and topo maps from Google, USGS topography from Terraserver, and other compatible sources. Check the www.internettablettalk.com forums. You can keep multiple libraries stored and switch among them.

There's a built-in interface for downloading maps in advance by area (latitude/longitude range) or route, at user specified zoom levels. With a mobile data connection, you can also download automatically on the fly. Way cool... this is a killer app!

I like the idea that the maps are always current. However I've got to see how many maps I'd have to download for, say, a 6-hour trip. It'll depend on the resolution it needs, but at street-level resolution it would take hundreds of maps and GB of storage space. If it was highway-level, with detailed street-level at the origin and destination, it may be workable. However you're screwed if you get lost and don't have a street-level map of that particular area...

The mobile data connection is useless here. There just aren't that many unsecured wireless connections to always guarantee you have one, and there are very few community-wide wireless projects in the works here. The ones that are aren't free and require logging into a web page.

As this is getting OT, I'll look elsewhere if I want to investigate further. Thanks.

jpj
2007-01-17, 13:32
I've got to see how many maps I'd have to download for, say, a 6-hour trip. It'll depend on the resolution it needs, but at street-level resolution it would take hundreds of maps and GB of storage space.

I suspect you're overestimating the storage requirements. I'm populating a big SD card right now and will have a better grasp on data density shortly.

mattybain
2007-01-18, 11:50
I am very excited my N800 is one it's way from the states with an obliging work colleague.

I am curious whether anybody has had any success with the 4gb SD cards that are around. I know Nokia says 2gb is the limit but with most of \their devices the limit is usually bendable.

Can't wait to fire this puppy up and check out Bens 770 skin, roll on Monday.

jpj
2007-01-18, 13:11
I am curious whether anybody has had any success with the 4gb SD cards that are around. I know Nokia says 2gb is the limit but with most of their devices the limit is usually bendable.

I'm currently using two Transcend 4GB SD cards (TS4GSD150) successfully in the N800, for a total of slightly under 8GB removable storage. But there are a few gotchas:

Make sure you buy regular SD cards, not SDHC "high capacity" which do *NOT* work at this time. 4GB cards exist in both flavors, so the difference is crucial. 8GB and future higher capacities (up to 32GB under the spec) will always be SDHC as well.

Linux kernel support for SDHC has recently become available, so there is good reason to expect it will be ported to the N800 in the foreseeable future. (With the original Nokia 770, 2GB RS-MMC support arrived via a similar midlife upgrade.) If your need for maxed-out storage is not immediate, you might want to monitor www.internettablettalk.com for new developments on this front.

Also, it's doubtful whether "high speed" or "ultra speed" cards (like the 150X models noted above) will perform any better than "normal speed" (e.g., Transcend TS4GSDC) in this device. Crude benchmarks suggest that the N800 clocks its SD slots at 25MHz, not the 50MHz required for higher transfer rates. Given this constraint and the expected addition of SDHC support in the near future, normal speed cards might be the smarter choice today.

Finally, if your intended usage involves large numbers of very small files (such as maps for GPS navigation), I _strongly_ recommend reformatting the SD card with smaller clusters. This can be done over the USB connection to a Windows PC, as well as Linux console tools. My cards came preformatted as FAT32 with 32KB clusters, which is extremely inefficient for this particular application.

For a concrete example, the open source Maemo Mapper works with downloaded maps from various sources, including Google Maps. It stitches the display from 256x256 pixel tiles in PNG format (streets) or JPG (topo). At the largest scale (zoom level 15), a 4x4 grid (16 tiles) covers the globe. Each successive level zooms in by a factor of 2, needing 4 times as many tiles to cover a given area. The most detailed PNG tiles take roughly 50KB each, but the average is much lower, with a lower bound of 103 bytes for featureless areas such as open water. Most users amass a collection of large scale maps for large areas, amplified by smaller scales for specific areas or individual routes.

Full global coverage at zoom levels 10 - 15 comprises 21,840 files, totaling 32.2MB at this time (subject to change as the database evolves). With the default 32KB FAT32 clusters, these files occupy 684MB on the 4GB flash card: over 95% wasted space! Reformatting with 1KB FAT32 clusters slashed the allocation to 48.5MB, or a 14X improvement in storage density. A 2GB SD card could do even better with 512 byte clusters (the FAT32 minimum), but this option is unavailable for 4GB and larger partitions.

The downside to reformatting is reduced throughput, since the allocation units become smaller than the internal block size of the flash device. So cards intended for larger files such as audio, video or photos should be left at the factory format.

sstatman
2007-01-18, 15:14
Something nobody has mentioned is that Nokia will be releasing a full Rhapsody client on the N800 in the next two months or so. It's built over the same technology as the Squeezebox integration with Rhapsody.

So basically : Use your Nokia as a remote to control your Squeezebox. Use your Nokia as a portable player when in wifi range.

3.5 million tracks on your Squeezebox or in the palm of your hand, all you can eat.

bklaas
2007-01-19, 07:57
very well done and positive review of the N800 in mobilecrunch.
http://mobilecrunch.com/2007/01/18/nokia-n800-a-real-world-review-after-one-months-use/

This little snippet was of particular interest to people in this forum:
'The “instant-on” capability of the device makes it ideal for ad-hoc, spontaneous use whereas even resuming a lap-top from stand-by seems to take a lifetime by comparison.'

translation: this is a much better slimserver remote than the 770

I have great respect for any gadget reviewer that uses the device for a month before writing up their impressions. Amazing how many crap reviews are posted because the reviewer clearly had unboxed it an hour before writing the article. Nice to see someone still doing their job in the tech press.

cheers,
#!/ben

jpj
2007-01-19, 21:45
Moving right along ... the 4GB SD card limit (not 2GB per Nokia specs) may already be yesterday's news. One poster on the Internet Tablet Talk site reports success patching the OS with SDHC support from the mainstream Linux kernel. Keep in mind, less than 2 weeks have passed since the product launch. Long live open source!

norman12
2007-01-21, 09:37
Has anyone managed to get alien bbc streaming to the N800?
Other radio stations work fine (radioio)

funkstar
2007-01-22, 16:29
Has anyone managed to get alien bbc streaming to the N800?
Other radio stations work fine (radioio)
Do you have Lame installed and available to AlienBBC/Slimserver?

RadioIO is already in MP3 (at least i'm pretty sure it is) so SlimServer just send that stream directly to the player. AlienBBC transcodes the RealAudio streams with MPlayer to get them to play. By default it is streamed as FLAC to SB2/3 and WAV to SB1. You need to get it to stream as MP3 to the Nokia

bklaas
2007-01-22, 16:34
Has anyone managed to get alien bbc streaming to the N800?
Other radio stations work fine (radioio)

how about cutting the middleman and streaming BBC directly to the audio player on the N800? Seems like that's the way to go here.

atlslim
2007-01-22, 16:49
Something nobody has mentioned is that Nokia will be releasing a full Rhapsody client on the N800 in the next two months or so.

And the early adopters (i.e., Nokia 770 owners) - what is our fate re: Rhapsody client?? I'm not feeling the love on this one!!

earthbased
2007-01-23, 11:09
Still no Java? Man, I have Java on my RAZR phone!

norman12
2007-01-23, 13:39
Do you have Lame installed and available to AlienBBC/Slimserver?

RadioIO is already in MP3 (at least i'm pretty sure it is) so SlimServer just send that stream directly to the player. AlienBBC transcodes the RealAudio streams with MPlayer to get them to play. By default it is streamed as FLAC to SB2/3 and WAV to SB1. You need to get it to stream as MP3 to the Nokia

Thats what I can't understand - Radioio works fine, Lame is installed on slimserver(6.5 on XP), RTSP set to mp3 only and confirmed when playing stream to Squeezebox3.
I've tried bitrate limit of 128kbps, but the N800 media player just sits there.
My flac'ed music streams fine which must mean an mp3 conversion
Thanks for your reply by the way.

bpa
2007-01-23, 13:44
Regarding AlienBBC not working on non Squeezebox devices - in this case N800 - this thread may help

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26315

norman12
2007-01-23, 13:47
how about cutting the middleman and streaming BBC directly to the audio player on the N800? Seems like that's the way to go here.

Thanks for the reply (and the 770 skin - great stuff)

The BBC stream in either Real or Windows media although some of the archived shows are mp3.
I may be wrong, but I don't think the N800 can handle these formats on its own.

Victor
2007-01-23, 13:55
Thanks for the reply (and the 770 skin - great stuff)

The BBC stream in either Real or Windows media although some of the archived shows are mp3.
I may be wrong, but I don't think the N800 can handle these formats on its own.

The N800 should be able to handle Real streams just fine

norman12
2007-01-23, 14:14
The N800 should be able to handle Real streams just fine

Victor, when I navigate to BBC6 and click the listen live (realplayer) button a box comes stating that realplayer is not installed. I have read that the N800 is supposed to handle real streams, but I can't get it to work directly (see below though)

Thanks for the link Bpa - it works!



Regarding AlienBBC not working on non Squeezebox devices - in this case N800 - this thread may help

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26315

norman12
2007-01-23, 14:19
Ok, so the N800 can handle the real stream, just need to click stand alone player!

Thanks to all who replied - a case of looking for problems where none exist!

bpa
2007-01-23, 14:36
The media player on the N770 was a version of RealPlayer - and I guess it is the same for N800.

I think you should also try to use the BBC's "listen again" facility through the browser from the BBC web site. If that works then all AlienBBC facilities are available natively on the N800.

norman12
2007-01-23, 14:54
The media player on the N770 was a version of RealPlayer - and I guess it is the same for N800.

I think you should also try to use the BBC's "listen again" facility through the browser from the BBC web site. If that works then all AlienBBC facilities are available natively on the N800.

Bpa, when I try to open a listen again stream directly the N800 tries to start a Real browser plugin rather than the media player.

bpa
2007-01-23, 15:10
Doing a quick google - it seems that there is no RealPlayer plugin for the Opera on the N770.

I am not familiar with Opera but some browsers let you launch an external player, if a plugin is not available. If this choice is not offered - then you have a reason for using Slimserver/AlienBBC.

norman12
2007-01-23, 15:25
Bpa, yes, I had a google too - a good reason to stick with the slimserver/alien setup. Using the 770 skin is also a little easier than navigating the BBC website.

mrchrispy
2007-01-24, 11:22
CNet posted a great review of the Nokia 800: 7.7 out of 10 and called it the ultimate WiFi tablet. Review here:

http://reviews.cnet.com/Nokia_N800_Internet_Tablet/4505-3126_7-32309517.html?tag=cnetfd.mt

EnochLight
2007-01-24, 21:26
Well, after much deliberation I decided to return my N800. I couldn't justify the cost for its limited functionality, and actually find that my Squeezebox useage is more enjoyable when using the included remote. Simply put, it's quicker.

Internet surfing was cramped for me on the N800, video playback was crap, Flash video support was crap, and I couldn't get my Dash to work as a modem for it. For $400 USD, I can almost get an inexpensive laptop which has far more functionality.

Anyway, at least I tried it! Cheers to all here!

utowana
2007-01-25, 18:04
This is not exactly a slimdevices forum post, but since everyone here is so friendly, I'm hoping someone can give me a pointer to a resource. I have an N800 and it is a tremendous device, and i'm loving its utility as a SS/SB controller using the Nokia 770 skin.

I'm not a Linux guy, and I have stared at the maemo.org site for quite a while, and done numerous searches, and can find no "how to" walk thru on how to install third party applications in the device. It just ain't intuitive for a non developer, non linux, windows guy. Can anyone help? Just point me to some resources and I'll be off and running.

Thanks

TechHome
2007-01-30, 12:05
user "Thoughtfix" has a blog on the 770 & 800. Here's a link to his "must have" applications. Follow the links and you will find installation info. Have fun

http://thoughtfix.blogspot.com/2006_12_17_archive.html

jplatner
2007-01-30, 23:59
I want to use the following in combination...can someone please help:

1. large Itunes Library, including Album Art
2. Slimserver
3. ANY (please suggest) Universal remote, potentially touch screen (view & search through album art, rather than names of albums, artists, etc.
4. SB3


i need to make searching for songs/albums easier...for WAF...
thanks gents.

utowana
2007-02-21, 18:23
user "Thoughtfix" has a blog on the 770 & 800. Here's a link to his "must have" applications. Follow the links and you will find installation info. Have fun

http://thoughtfix.blogspot.com/2006_12_17_archive.html

What a great resource. Thanks TechHome.

Mark Lanctot
2007-02-27, 12:37
Just saw a review of this at:

http://www.xyzcomputing.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=965

The reviewer wrote something a little strange:


The N800 actually has its own FM transmitter so with the help of an application from Maemo it is possible to use it to listen to old fashioned radio as well.

and later:


it receives FM radio

So which is it, transmit or receive?

Transmitting could be very useful if you use the device as a GPS navigator in the car, which is the only way I could justify purchasing it. Receiving FM is nice as well and is probably what the viewer meant, but it's not as good as transmitting for me.

ftlight
2007-02-27, 13:08
Mark Lanctot wrote:
> Just saw a review of this at:
>
> http://www.xyzcomputing.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=965
>
> The reviewer wrote something a little strange:
>
>> The N800 actually has its own FM transmitter so with the help of an
>> application from Maemo it is possible to use it to listen to old
>> fashioned radio as well.
>
> and later:
>
>> it receives FM radio
>
> So which is it, transmit or receive?
>
> Transmitting could be very useful if you use the device as a GPS
> navigator in the car, which is the only way I could justify purchasing
> it. Receiving FM is nice as well and is probably what the viewer
> meant, but it's not as good as transmitting for me.

Sloppy reviewing; it's an FM receiver which uses the headphone cord as
an antenna:

http://technocrat.net/d/2007/2/7/14542

--
Bill Burns
Long Island NY USA
http://ftldesign.com

timmorris
2007-04-06, 12:50
Has anyone noticed an issue with a memory leak with the N800 and the N770 skin? I'm using a nightly and seem to be getting a massive increase in memory usage (as reported by top) I *think* it is only happening when I use the skin to control an mp3 stream which is played back on the N800 itself.

Running nightly 2007-03-14. Minor modification to convert the drop-down box to display only.

Tim

bklaas
2007-04-06, 13:00
That sounds like a problem with the media streamer, not with the Nokia770 skin or the browser. Stream to the N800, close your browser (your stream should continue to play via the audio player), and see if the memory spike is still there. If so, the issue has nothing to do with the Nokia770 skin, but with the N800's streaming audio player.

cheers,
#!/ben

timmorris
2007-04-07, 05:44
Now that I've worked out how to monitor resource usage I can't reproduce the problem. At one stage the browser was consuming about 40Mb...

I'll keep an eye on it and if it happens again I'll report back.

Tim

timmorris
2007-04-08, 05:20
There's definitely something going on with the browser - it is consuming huge amounts of memory but only in certain obscure circumstances. I'll try to put together a step by step guide to reproducing the problem in the meantime I've just increased the swap to 128Mb...

Are you still updating the skin in the nightlies Ben, or is 6.5.x pretty much fixed with all development work focussed on 7? Great skin btw. I was able to get 4 N800s FOC (Nokia is my brother's ad agency's biggest client), and I've got Squeezeboxes sitting in Node 0 (next to the home cinema stack). They replaced a QED MusiQ and an old Imerge Soundserver. The cabling for high level audio is already in place, but the N800 in conjunction with Slimserver is just so much better. The soundserver was controlled by Philips Prontos and every time I added a new album I had to edit the remote control.

I've been asked to write it up for the UK Home Automation website - http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/. The webmaster has a Sonos system, but most of the site members are DIY tinkerers, loads of them run Linux so slimserver is right up their street.

Tim

Victor
2007-04-08, 08:17
Have you updated to the latest N800 software that was released about 2 weeks ago? I seem to recall some bug fixes for the browser were included in the release. Maybe it'll help your situatuion

timmorris
2007-04-08, 13:16
I've got the latest flash and since increasing the swap space to 128Meg the problem seems to have gone away.

I dual boot from an SD card, and I'm about to patch the kernel and buy an 8Gig SDHC card so I'll hardly be short of space. Here's me a Linux virgin until 10 days ago and I'm already patching things!

Tim

bklaas
2007-04-09, 07:41
hi Tim-

a couple of notes on your previous posts.

on checkins: If there is a bug that needs fixing on both branches, if feasible I will usually test and check the fix into both branches, 6.5 and trunk (7.0).

on memory leaks: The Nokia770 and Touch skins I maintain make very heavy use of AJAX, which sends requests to slimserver in the background and updates elements on the page without the need to update the entire page (for example, when the current song changes). This makes for a much nicer user experience, but with AJAX comes a greater possibility for memory leaks. Internet Explorer is usually the prime offender in not handling memory correctly, but the Opera/N800 environment may have similar issues. That said, finding and plugging AJAX memory leaks is very difficult. If there is a real problem here, any specifics on how to reproduce it would be helpful, and opening a bug at http://bugs.slimdevices.com is the proper route for reporting it.

on current development: I should note that I haven't touched any development on either branch in quite some time, as I do all of this work in my spare cycles, of which I've had very few in the past 6 weeks or so. However, there are a number of nice enhancements I've completed in 7.0, which I documented here:
http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?TouchNokia770ss7Enhancements

The big thing left on my plate for 7.0 skin development is to become compliant with what's necessary to support the new plugin API, so things like Favorites and third-party plugins are better served via the skin.

cheers,
#!/ben

timmorris
2007-04-13, 20:46
Ben,

I'm finiding it very difficult to track it down but one thing will guarantee it won't happen and that is to remove the Sandisk SD Card - why that manifests itself in a browser memory leak I don't know. I'll see what happens with the SDHC cards. Just in case it is a hardware fault I'll open up another one of the N800s I have and try the Sandisk card in it. I've also re installed the Nokia 770 skin from scratch and copied it to a new (N800) folder prior to editing. All I've done so far is re-arrange the home page.

Something completely different. I installed MusicMagic and it takes a handful of clicks to base a new MM playlist based on the currently playing track. On the Fishbone skin for example each item in the current playlist has an MM icon. How difficult would it be to add the same to the "Now Playing" and playlist pages of the N770 skin?

Great work BTW. I ordered three Squeezeboxes today and tend to implement the 3 additional zones next week.

Tim

bklaas
2007-04-14, 14:22
Tim-

I don't understand your memory leak issues and won't be able to test until I have an N800, which should be soon. What you're describing sounds extremely odd and points to a hardware issue, not software (though I wouldn't rule out either at this point).

On the Music Magic thing (which, I believe, is the same as MusicIP)...in theory, it should already work like that. From your post, I guess it doesn't. The support for this plugin in Nokia770/Touch was actually graciously added by KDF, who wrote the Fishbone skin. So, if it works for you in Fishbone, it's probably not that far off from working in Nokia770/Touch.

I have never successfully gotten Music IP working on my linux machine. While it professes cross-platform support, I dorked around with it for a few hours and just gave up because it was never fully updating and being generally a pain in the butt. I like the concept of it, but can't really be the point person for support/development on it because I can't get it working in my environment.

sorry I'm not giving you great answers here, but that's the scoop. Patches welcome ;)

cheers,
#!/ben

timmorris
2007-04-15, 02:14
I don't know what is going on with the memory leak either. It appears to be almost random in the way it appears. One thing for certain is if I take the SD card out the N800 will run for days, if I put it in eventually the browser starts gobbling up memory. If I ever get to track it down further I'll let you know. I don't have two identical SD cards so I can't leave two running side by side.

As to MusicIP. If you list albums/artists or tracks you get a MusicIP icon to make a mix. There isn't one on the status page (and I'm not sure that there should be), but I would expect to see a icon on each of the items in the current playlist. While that feature is in Fishbone, it isn't there on the default skin. The only way to get there at the moment is to drill down via artist and or album and then find the track or to search for the track...

I did have a quick look at the html but I'm afraid it is beyond me.

Tim

timmorris
2007-04-17, 12:09
Ben,

In order to clean things up I re-installed a clean copy of the html and made a copy the Nokia770 folder - called spookily N800! The only alteration I made is to re order the icons on the home page.

I also re-flashed to a clean copy of the 2007 image, patched the kernel to support SDHC cards and set up dual boot onto a brand new Adata 8Gb card. Everything seems to be behaving now.

I've looked through all of the html in the folder and I can't for the life of me work out how the music-magic plugin is being picked up, and why it appears on the now-playing list of fishbone but not on the Nokia skin. In fact it seems that the ONLY pages of the Nokia skin that don't display the music magic icons are the status and current playlist pages. While with the unit connected to my main HiFi I can use the IR remote, I can't with the 3 Squeezeboxes I'm installing next week for whole house audio as they are going to be hidden in a media rack and controlled soley over WLAN using N800s.

Could someone who understands how the html fits together better than me and can install MusicMagic see if the code can be patched? I'm at a loss I'm afraid.

Tim

bklaas
2007-04-17, 12:32
FWIW, my best guess is I think your mem leak issue was an OS issue, and nothing to do with Slimserver or my skins.

The playlist and now playing pages on Nokia770/Touch is where the largest amount of divergence from standard slimserver skins is, particularly with the controls. It's no surprise that MusicMagic/IP/Whatever it's called doesn't work there, because it's all custom code.

If it helps, take a look at the BLOCK ajaxplaylistcontrols in the file status_list.html in the Nokia770/ folder. That's where those controls are generated, so that's where you'd need to put a hook for MusicMagic support.

I said it before, but I don't run MusicMagic/IP, can't get it to work in my Linux environment, and thus am not going to be a big help in fixing it directly. Patches welcome.

cheers,
#!/ben

timmorris
2007-04-17, 12:36
Thanks Ben. I gathered that you wouldn't be able to help which is why I thought I'd try to cast the net wider. Now I have about 14Gig of multimedia to transfer. My next Nokia toy is going to be an N95. Yummy!

Tim

gusi
2007-04-23, 07:23
Does anybody know where to order a N800 in the states and ship it to Australia? Amazon and Nokia only ship to the US itself.

timmorris
2007-05-30, 05:33
OK,

Now I've had a chance to use our installation in anger one thing which is driving me mad is the fact that if you hit the playlist icon to pull up the current playlist and hit the play icon beside one of the tracks it takes 5-6 seconds for anything to happen. The CPU/memory load/screenshot app shows the CPU is 100% loaded druing this time, and while it happens almost instantly on a windows PC it does show that iexplore uses CPU more heavily during this process.

I've checked and there's nothing wrong with my installation - I did a clean install of the shipping 6.5.2 and all of the N800s (except mine) have clean ROMS with no patches.

Is there a way of speeding this up?

Tim

NY2006
2007-06-20, 10:21
I was wondering if anyone has purchased one here to give a review ? I would like to know how the radio streaming is compared to other media devices. I believe the Nokia also supports video so would like to know how the live TV streams are compared to PC. http://www.nextag.com/nokia-800-tabl...er/search-html

Also there's a software called Select Radio that works with most Mobile phones...was wondering if Nokia 800 supports this software. http://www.selectradio.com/

Would like to hear experiences on Nokia 800...also does any know if Select Radio software will work Nokia 800 ?


Dave -






It looks like (http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7056717365.html) the Nokia N800 is out, at least in the US.

This is the replacement for the 770, with twice the RAM, faster CPU, and full size SD slots. Should work very well with the 770 skin, I'm assuming performance should be much improved.

I'd get one but have to wait a few months for my gadget karma to increase again.

JohnSwenson
2007-06-23, 21:30
I got a N800 last week, primarily to control slimserver. It works great with the 770 skin, I'm very happy with it. The speed of controling slimserver this way seems almost instantaneous. Its way better than using a laptop which is heavy, cumbersome and gets hot!

The N800's battery life is quite good. If doing continuous web surfing switching from page to page you get about 4 hours. If you are continuously on the webbut spending time reading pages etc it can shut down the wifi transmitter and this saves a lot, in this mode its between 6-7 hours. For controlling slimserver where you occasionally pick it up and push some buttons its somewhere between 4-10 days!

Web browsing is pretty nice, its a wide enough screen that you can see most web pages without scrolling, but some are pretty small text. About half the time I wind up zooming in a step so I can read the text. The zoom in and out works vey well so don't hesitate to use it.

I've wound up carrying this thing with me all over the house, I can read some forums while eating breakfast or do a little research when I wake up in the middle of the night and don't want o get up and go to the "big computer".

Typing is not so great so I would not recommend writing a novel on it unless you have an external keyboard. It has a stylus keyboard and a "thumb board" which pops up when you use a finger to point at a text area. This works pretty well for entering text when holding the tablet, but the thumb board covers up the whole screen so you can't see the area of the screen where its going. The stylus board lets you see where you are entering the text. It also has handwriting recognition but its nots so great, I just usually use the stylus or thumb board.

As to your question on Select Radio, it will not work on the N800, its designed for pocket PCs which run a completely different operating system. The N800 runs linux. This means there are quite a few third party linux programs ported to it and many coming all the time.

Since it has access to the internet it works well for normal internet radio streaming. You can access them just like you would from any other omputer connected to the internet. There is an application called streamtuner specifically designed for keeping lists of internet radio stations you want to listen to. It works pretty well, but I actually prefer using slimserver for internet radio access.
The speakers on the N800 are not what you would call audiophile quality, and they don't go very loud. But if you are a couple inches away its not too bad.

It does have a UPnP player so you can use it with a UPnP server if you have one.

I've not played with the video streaming. It supposedly is terrible with youtube. It does a pretty good job with local avi files etc. Since it has two SD card slots you can put some videos on flash and play them on the device.

Currently it can't run softsqueeze, but it should be possible to port squeezeslave.

Any more questions I can answer?

John S.

Victor
2007-06-23, 22:55
I've not played with the video streaming. It supposedly is terrible with youtube.
John S.

<Disclaimer> I work at Nokia and work on the N800, but I am writing this on my own time and not as a Nokia employee </Disclaimer>

Have you gotten the latest firmware update for the device? It drastically improved youtube watching. It's still far from perfect, but it's better than it was before.

NY2006
2007-06-24, 05:34
Hi John,

Thanks for the info. I really appreciate knowing everything you have mentioned about the Nokia N800.
You mentioned Select Radio souldn't work because of the Linux system...do you if other software from download.com can be downloaded and instaled on the Nokia N800 as long as its Linux software ? Does it only support an mp3 player or does it also support Windows Media Player and Real Player ? I would be interested to know if it supports watching live TV from its own mp3 player or other players like VTuner, Replay Radio, etc.
Do you know if its possible to listen to XM or Sirius ?
I believe I read some where it does support Real Rhapsody.
Thanks,

Dave -



I got a N800 last week, primarily to control slimserver. It works great with the 770 skin, I'm very happy with it. The speed of controling slimserver this way seems almost instantaneous. Its way better than using a laptop which is heavy, cumbersome and gets hot!

The N800's battery life is quite good. If doing continuous web surfing switching from page to page you get about 4 hours. If you are continuously on the webbut spending time reading pages etc it can shut down the wifi transmitter and this saves a lot, in this mode its between 6-7 hours. For controlling slimserver where you occasionally pick it up and push some buttons its somewhere between 4-10 days!

Web browsing is pretty nice, its a wide enough screen that you can see most web pages without scrolling, but some are pretty small text. About half the time I wind up zooming in a step so I can read the text. The zoom in and out works vey well so don't hesitate to use it.

I've wound up carrying this thing with me all over the house, I can read some forums while eating breakfast or do a little research when I wake up in the middle of the night and don't want o get up and go to the "big computer".

Typing is not so great so I would not recommend writing a novel on it unless you have an external keyboard. It has a stylus keyboard and a "thumb board" which pops up when you use a finger to point at a text area. This works pretty well for entering text when holding the tablet, but the thumb board covers up the whole screen so you can't see the area of the screen where its going. The stylus board lets you see where you are entering the text. It also has handwriting recognition but its nots so great, I just usually use the stylus or thumb board.

As to your question on Select Radio, it will not work on the N800, its designed for pocket PCs which run a completely different operating system. The N800 runs linux. This means there are quite a few third party linux programs ported to it and many coming all the time.

Since it has access to the internet it works well for normal internet radio streaming. You can access them just like you would from any other omputer connected to the internet. There is an application called streamtuner specifically designed for keeping lists of internet radio stations you want to listen to. It works pretty well, but I actually prefer using slimserver for internet radio access.
The speakers on the N800 are not what you would call audiophile quality, and they don't go very loud. But if you are a couple inches away its not too bad.

It does have a UPnP player so you can use it with a UPnP server if you have one.

I've not played with the video streaming. It supposedly is terrible with youtube. It does a pretty good job with local avi files etc. Since it has two SD card slots you can put some videos on flash and play them on the device.

Currently it can't run softsqueeze, but it should be possible to port squeezeslave.

Any more questions I can answer?

John S.

bpa
2007-06-24, 07:02
The N800 has a version of Helix RealPlayer bundled so can play many internet radio formats. Check here for some details.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070109-8575.html

An initially undocumented feature is a real FM radio (earphones provides the antenna) - the s/w to enable the radio is now available form Nokia as an update.

There is also a version of mplayer ported to the N800 which can be used to play most internet radio formats.

I believe somebody has ported a Gmyth player for mythtv but video is still not great (do a google on Gmyth and N800).

You can check out http://www.maemo.org for the 3rd party activity.