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linuxtuxie
2007-01-07, 11:02
Hello all,

I am getting started with the renovation of my house in Belgium (very small country in Europe ;)

I wanted to use the DC101 in-wall speakers from artsound http://www.artsound.be/index.cfm?PageID=16090

together with some proper amplification...and here lays my problem :)

I would like to install a few squeezeboxes throughout my house (one per room) and in each room I would install 2 DC101 speakers.

I think the best solution would be to install a seperate amplifier per speaker...however this means that I need to power each speaker seperately which gives a lot of cable soup.

Browsing the net I found the following multiroom amplifier of NAD...http://nadelectronics.com/products/custom-installations/CI9060-Power-Amplifier/details

The only problem I see would be the long distance between:
a. Squeezebox -> NAD-CI9060
b. NAD-CI9060 -> speaker

As I can make up the specs, I assume that point b shouldn't pose a major problem when I am making use of some decent speaker cables.

My concern however is point a....can a distance of 20 metres between the squeezebox and the amplifier be properly bridged ?

Pale Blue Ego
2007-01-07, 14:43
I know you can get small amplifiers that mount in the wall. They might be too expensive for your situation. Maybe something like the Parasound Zamp, a small power amp that could sit near each Squeezebox.

linuxtuxie
2007-01-07, 16:07
I know you can get small amplifiers that mount in the wall. They might be too expensive for your situation. Maybe something like the Parasound Zamp, a small power amp that could sit near each Squeezebox.

The idea is indeed that in the room nothing is visible, except for the squeezebox and the 2 in-wall speakers.

In fact I am planning to mount the squeezebox on the wall as described here http://users.skynet.be/linuxtuxie/squeezebox/

aubuti
2007-01-07, 20:43
Sounds like it will be a great setup when you are done. I might not be understanding something, but it seems to me that your proposed solution of running a double set of cables (SB to centrally-located NAD amp, then amp to speakers) for each room is a lot more "cable soup" than having separate amplifiers for each speaker pair, like PBE suggested.

Also, from the web page I can't tell how many sources the NAD can handle. Presumably you would want to consider each SB as a different source, or at least have that flexibility. If the NAD is more oriented towards sending the same source to every room in the house, then I'm not sure it makes sense to have an SB in each room.

If you still want to go with what you're considering (SB+spkrs in each room connected to a single, centralized amp), you should be able to connect the SBs to the amp at line level using some baluns (balanced/unbalanced) adapters. There are various types, but one kind uses cat5 cable to do the bridging. Something like this: SB analog output => balun adapter => cat5 cable => balun adapter => amp input.

I have no idea on your options for connecting the SB to the amp digitally over that distance.

Good luck!

peter
2007-01-08, 13:30
aubuti wrote:
> Sounds like it will be a great setup when you are done. I might not be
> understanding something, but it seems to me that your proposed solution
> of running a double set of cables (SB to centrally-located NAD amp, then
> amp to speakers) for each room is a lot more "cable soup" than having
> separate amplifiers for each speaker pair, like PBE suggested.
>

This situation seems to be begging for active speakers. Of course, then
he'd have to run a power and a line level cable to each speaker. A
centralized amp is contrary to the Squeezebox philosophy IMHO.

> If you still want to go with what you're considering (SB+spkrs in each
> room connected to a single, centralized amp), you should be able to
> connect the SBs to the amp at line level using some baluns
> (balanced/unbalanced) adapters. There are various types, but one kind
> uses cat5 cable to do the bridging. Something like this: SB analog
> output => balun adapter => cat5 cable => balun adapter => amp input.
>

Baluns work well. I have a pair running stereo audio and video over a
distance of ~20 meters. I bought them here: http://www.videocapturecard.com

Regards,
Peter

aubuti
2007-01-08, 14:44
aubuti wrote:
> Sounds like it will be a great setup when you are done. I might not be
> understanding something, but it seems to me that your proposed solution
> of running a double set of cables (SB to centrally-located NAD amp, then
> amp to speakers) for each room is a lot more "cable soup" than having
> separate amplifiers for each speaker pair, like PBE suggested.
>

This situation seems to be begging for active speakers. Of course, then he'd have to run a power and a line level cable to each speaker. A centralized amp is contrary to the Squeezebox philosophy IMHO.

I thought about active speakers, but I'm not aware of any in-wall actives. Do they exist?

I also agree about a centralized amp being contrary to the SB philosophy. But I have come around to thinking that an SB can be usefully paired with a (semi-)centralized amp when the zones are in rooms that are close enough and open enough to be within earshot of one another. Having separate slightly out-of-sync SBs that you can hear at the same time isn't much fun.

linuxtuxie
2007-01-08, 16:06
I thought about active speakers, but I'm not aware of any in-wall actives. Do they exist?

I did not came across any...



I also agree about a centralized amp being contrary to the SB philosophy. But I have come around to thinking that an SB can be usefully paired with a (semi-)centralized amp when the zones are in rooms that are close enough and open enough to be within earshot of one another. Having separate slightly out-of-sync SBs that you can hear at the same time isn't much fun.

The DC-101 speaker I had in mind has a wooden unit (DC301/RE 650) that can be cemented into
my brick wall (see http://www.artsound.be/index.cfm?PageID=16125)

I do not think however that the spare room in this box is big enough to house:
a. transformer 220VAC-> 12..18DC
b. Amp (probably with heat sink)

Another point I see as a disadvantage is that all speakers will be powered on permanently,
where with the NAD amp it is possible to shut it down
remotely by making use of one of the squeezebox plugins and some simple hardware (I think ;).

peter
2007-01-08, 23:30
linuxtuxie wrote:
> aubuti;168334 Wrote:
>
>> I thought about active speakers, but I'm not aware of any in-wall
>> actives. Do they exist?
>>
>
> I did not came across any...
>

Try to Google for 'active "in wall" speakers', the first results page is
full of them. I haven't seen many in wall speakers in Europe but it
seems they are quite popular in the US.

> aubuti;168334 Wrote:
>
>> I also agree about a centralized amp being contrary to the SB
>> philosophy. But I have come around to thinking that an SB can be
>> usefully paired with a (semi-)centralized amp when the zones are in
>> rooms that are close enough and open enough to be within earshot of one
>> another. Having separate slightly out-of-sync SBs that you can hear at
>> the same time isn't much fun.
>>
>
> The DC-101 speaker I had in mind has a wooden unit (DC301/RE 650) that
> can be cemented into
> my brick wall (see http://www.artsound.be/index.cfm?PageID=16125)
>
> I do not think however that the spare room in this box is big enough to
> house:
> a. transformer 220VAC-> 12..18DC
> b. Amp (probably with heat sink)
>
> Another point I see as a disadvantage is that all speakers will be
> powered on permanently,
> where with the NAD amp it is possible to shut it down
> remotely by making use of one of the squeezebox plugins and some simple
> hardware (I think ;).
>

There are several solutions to this problem:

- Some active speakers have an auto power switch triggered by audio,
perhaps that goes for in-walls as well.
- You may use the AmpSwitch plugin with a home made circuit (I'm using this)
- You may use X10 powerswitches ( http://www.intellihome.be/ ) to switch
your speakers off from slimserver.

If you're renovating your home, the X10 stuff could be interesting for
other purposes as well.

Regards,
Peter

linuxtuxie
2007-01-09, 02:42
There are several solutions to this problem:

- Some active speakers have an auto power switch triggered by audio,
perhaps that goes for in-walls as well.
- You may use the AmpSwitch plugin with a home made circuit (I'm using this)
- You may use X10 powerswitches ( http://www.intellihome.be/ ) to switch
your speakers off from slimserver.

If you're renovating your home, the X10 stuff could be interesting for
other purposes as well.


As you already mentioned it is a little bit harder to get the right equipment in Europe.
Just like the X10 stuff, we here in Europe have the Konnex standard (previously known as EIBA) http://www.konnex.org/
...so I am more focusing on that for automating my home :)

peter
2007-01-27, 14:48
linuxtuxie wrote:
> Peter;168468 Wrote:
>
>> There are several solutions to this problem:
>>
>> - Some active speakers have an auto power switch triggered by audio,
>> perhaps that goes for in-walls as well.
>> - You may use the AmpSwitch plugin with a home made circuit (I'm using
>> this)
>> - You may use X10 powerswitches ( http://www.intellihome.be/ ) to
>> switch
>> your speakers off from slimserver.
>>
>> If you're renovating your home, the X10 stuff could be interesting for
>>
>> other purposes as well.
>>
>>
>
> As you already mentioned it is a little bit harder to get the right
> equipment in Europe.
> Just like the X10 stuff, we here in Europe have the Konnex standard
> (previously known as EIBA) http://www.konnex.org/
> ...so I am more focusing on that for automating my home :)
>

I *am* in Europe, and I never even heard of Konnex. My bad, perhaps ;)

Everybody knows X10 OTOH and it doesn't require new cabling...

Regards,
Peter