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gdg
2006-12-02, 18:31
Does anyone know the resolution and sampling rates one can typically get from internet radio stations?
Gerry

richidoo
2006-12-02, 19:08
Usually 32kbps to 128kbps, although the higher rates are rare.

I found this interesting:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Internet-Radio-Broadcasting---About-Bitrates&id=231665
Rich

gdg
2006-12-02, 20:16
Thanx Rich.
Any idea how this compares to the 16bit 44khz cd standard? (I have no idea what bitrates mean).
Gerry

mherger
2006-12-02, 23:03
> Any idea how this compares to the 16bit 44khz cd standard? (I have no
> idea what bitrates mean).

CD is something like 1400kbps. MP3 and the like try to remove "inaudible"
parts of your songs before compressing the rest to get the reduced
bitrate. That's why these methods are called "lossy". "lossless"
compression is popular with eg. FLAC, which results in about 800kbps.

128kbps was once claimed to be CD equivalent. While this is subject of
discussion it can be said that on many systems you would indeed not hear
much difference between the two (audiophiles will turn over in their
graves). Lossless

BTW: I've noticed that there are more and more of the popular stations
supporting 192kbps. One of my favourites doing so is Radio Paradise
(radioparadise.com).

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.herger.net/SlimCD - your SlimServer on a CD
http://www.herger.net/slim - AlbumReview, Biography, MusicInfoSCR

gdg
2006-12-02, 23:40
That helps. The reason I was asking is because I am running a very high end system and was curious about how internet radio stacks up against CD (which I consider pretty bad). 128 compared to 1400... wow, that's pretty bad. On the other hand I was intending to only use the radio for backround dance/techno where the quality doesn't really matter much anyway.
Gerry

JJZolx
2006-12-02, 23:43
Any idea how this compares to the 16bit 44khz cd standard? (I have no idea what bitrates mean).
The bitrates mentioned above generally refer to MP3 encoding bitrates. They're far below CD quality, but the MP3 encoding techniques try to intelligently work around that, so that the information lost is that which is least important to the human mind & ear.

I find that Internet radio bitrates are fine for talk radio and discovering new music, and occasionally for background music, but not much else. I'd never consider encoding anything other than speech, even for an iPod, at less that 128kpbs, and this rate is at or near the very _upper_ end of the spectrum for streaming radio. Most of the stations in my neck of the woods call 64kbps their "high speed" stream, and many offer nothing better than 32kpbs.

SuperQ
2006-12-03, 10:00
That helps. The reason I was asking is because I am running a very high end system and was curious about how internet radio stacks up against CD (which I consider pretty bad). 128 compared to 1400... wow, that's pretty bad. On the other hand I was intending to only use the radio for backround dance/techno where the quality doesn't really matter much anyway.
Gerry

just comparing bit rates is not fair. The other thing to consider is that mp3 encoders have improved a ton in the last 5 years. Because lossy encoding methods trade CPU power at encoding time for space usage, you can improve things. 128bps now is much different than it was not too long ago.

There are other encoding formats that sound better than mp3. Some streaming stations offer aacPlus, wma, or ogg encoding. They can use much lower bitrates, while still having the same quality as a 128k mp3 stream.

For background listening like you suggest, most of these formats are just fine.

Mark Lanctot
2006-12-06, 12:06
I found this interesting:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Internet-Radio-Broadcasting---About-Bitrates&id=231665

Umm:


The highest bitrate recommended to stream music to broadband listeners is 128kbs. Why? Music cd's are recorded at 128kbs. Any streaming above this bitrate is just a waste of your bandwidth.

Music CDs are recorded at 1411 kbps. 1411 kbps <> 128 kbps...

ceejay
2006-12-06, 12:36
Mark,

Good point. I guess that just goes to show that you should never believe anything you read on the internet. Including, of course, this forum :)

Ceejay

jamietre
2006-12-06, 12:43
Umm:
Music CDs are recorded at 1411 kbps. 1411 kbps <> 128 kbps...

It's not a fair comparison, since the 128k stream is MP3 encoded whereas the 1411 stream is uncompressed. For example, you could stream a CD at about half that bitrate (e.g. 705 kbps or so) using FLAC encoding, with absolutely no loss in quality, since FLAC is a lossless encoding method.

There's no sense in directly comparing bitrates between two different encoding methods (e.g. compressed vs. not, or even MP3 vs. AAC vs. OGG) without also discussing the sonic characteristics of each stream.

radish
2006-12-06, 13:08
The article clearly states that CDs are recorded at 128kbps. This is false. End of story, the article is wrong. Now you may think their intention was to say that CDs are recorded at a sound quality level which is equivalent to 128kbps MP3, but that's not what they said (and, anyway, is also wrong).

Mark Lanctot
2006-12-07, 13:45
It's not a fair comparison, since the 128k stream is MP3 encoded whereas the 1411 stream is uncompressed. For example, you could stream a CD at about half that bitrate (e.g. 705 kbps or so) using FLAC encoding, with absolutely no loss in quality, since FLAC is a lossless encoding method.

There's no sense in directly comparing bitrates between two different encoding methods (e.g. compressed vs. not, or even MP3 vs. AAC vs. OGG) without also discussing the sonic characteristics of each stream.

Oh I agree, but the article states that CDs are recorded at 128kbs[sic]. That's clearly not true and is very easily verifiable.

When I see a big and obvious mistake like that, it makes the rest of the article suspect.

adamslim
2006-12-07, 15:16
I think it's sadder that DAB is no better than internet radio - even Radio 3 is only 160 kbps, which is well below the rate used in DVB television broadcasts (usually 256 kbps).

In terms of quality, I think that most people struggle to hear the difference between lossless (whether 1411 or 700-ish FLACs) and MP3s above about 256, unless they have gone through lots of listening tests to enable them to spot the differences.

Then, of course, you get people like me who just don't like the whole idea of compressing music, who put FLACs on their iPods knowing they will never tell the difference ;)

On-topic again, there are some internet radio stations of reasonable quality, but I think that, in general terms, it's for background listening. FM is much better quality.

jamietre
2006-12-08, 08:53
When I see a big and obvious mistake like that, it makes the rest of the article suspect.

Sure, I agree -- I was just trying to point out that bitrate != sound quality since it didn't seem like the readers of this thread necessarily understood that.