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cdsteinkuehler
2006-11-01, 12:53
I like the idea of the squeezebox (especially the flac/ogg support!), and I'm currently testing the slimserver software with multiple software players to see how well it might work for me.

The first issue I've run into is support for independent settings for each player. It appears that each player sports independent playlists (and some formatting settings) in the slimserver web interface, but I'm having problems with 'cross-coupling' of other settings.

For my first test, I simply set one player to use a "Random Song List" playlist (using all available music). This worked fine until I hooked up a second (software) player on a different machine and set *IT* to use a "Random Song List" as well, but this time restricted to only christmas music. Once I added the second player, my first random playlist started adding only christmas music, apparently 'inheriting' the genre filter setting from the second player.

I also noticed the gross hack (multiple instances of slimserver with iptables redirection) required to provide different music library support to different players: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?RunningMultipleSlimServers

Is somthing like multiple instances of slimserver required to keep them from "cross-coupling"? I hope not, as my wife and I have very different listening habits, and I don't really like the way the multiple instance thing is setup (ie: what happens if I want to listen on my wife's player?).

If it matters, I'm planning on setting up some of the dynamic auto-playlist generation plugins (ie: SQLPlayList & MusicMagic), which may help (or worsen) the player cross-coupling issues.

Is anyone using multiple squeezeboxes with multiple users from the same slimserver? If so, how well does it work, and how different are your listening tastes?

Any advice, pointers, URL's, etc. appreciated. Thanks!

Charles Steinkuehler

radish
2006-11-01, 13:15
It appears that each player sports independent playlists (and some formatting settings) in the slimserver web interface, but I'm having problems with 'cross-coupling' of other settings.

Anything specific to a player (such as display, formatting, audio, playlist etc) is, well, specific to a player :) The server settings are things like library management, security, web interface settings, etc.



For my first test, I simply set one player to use a "Random Song List" playlist (using all available music). This worked fine until I hooked up a second (software) player on a different machine and set *IT* to use a "Random Song List" as well, but this time restricted to only christmas music. Once I added the second player, my first random playlist started adding only christmas music, apparently 'inheriting' the genre filter setting from the second player.

That sounds like a bug, it certainly shouldn't happen that way. What version of slimserver are you using?



I also noticed the gross hack (multiple instances of slimserver with iptables redirection) required to provide different music library support to different players:
Support for multiple libraries (or a single, fully partitioned library) has been a fairly frequent request, although nothing really exists yet. There are various plugins which attempt to solve similar problems (such as by allowing you to define your own browse criteria) which may help in the interim.



Is somthing like multiple instances of slimserver required to keep them from "cross-coupling"? I hope not, as my wife and I have very different listening habits, and I don't really like the way the multiple instance thing is setup (ie: what happens if I want to listen on my wife's player?).

You mentioned one specific instance where the random playlist generator seemed to have a bug. What else are you concerned about? I have players in many rooms and each has control of it's own playlist. Display & formatting settings are also per player, as that tends to make the most sense (i.e. in a large room the font size is big so it can be read from a distance). I'm not really sure what you mean by "cross-coupling" and what your concerns are?

cdsteinkuehler
2006-11-01, 13:53
That sounds like a bug, it certainly shouldn't happen that way. What version of slimserver are you using?

I installed SlimServer from the slimdevices repository on a debian sarge system:
deb http://debian.slimdevices.com stable main

SlimServer reports:
SlimServer Version: 6.5.0 - 9916 - Debian - EN - iso-8859-1
Server IP address: 10.34.1.21
Perl Version: 5.8.4 i386-linux-thread-multi
MySQL Version: 4.1.11-Debian_4sarge7

NOTE: I did change the settings from the same web-browser, but selecting the player I was controlling didn't seem to affect the random playlist filtering (ie: random filters appear to be a gloabal setting of slimserver, not something that is per-player adjustable).


You mentioned one specific instance where the random playlist generator seemed to have a bug. What else are you concerned about? I have players in many rooms and each has control of it's own playlist. Display & formatting settings are also per player, as that tends to make the most sense (i.e. in a large room the font size is big so it can be read from a distance). I'm not really sure what you mean by "cross-coupling" and what your concerns are?

I'm mainly interested in dynamic playlist creation (ie: random or preferably 'smart' based on chosen/skipped songs, mood, genre, last-played-time, etc), but I need multi-user support as I will have several listeners and I don't want them poluting each other's statistics (ie: I don't want to listen to (very much of) my wife's music, and she probably doesn't want to listen to most of mine! :).

I'm concerned that something as basic as genre filtering doesn't seem to work based on which player I'm using (or even better, which user I connect as). I'm looking into some of the plugin addons to see if they help address this, but would appreciate any pointers from someone more familiarity with the server software.

Also, is there any way to associate a "listener" to a player session, or are the settings purely based on which player device is connecting? I'm wondering what happens when my wife and I share a player in a common location (like the living room), and how we prevent steping on each other's settings (particularly if I get some sort of dynamic playlist generator like MusicIP setup).

Charles Steinkuehler

radish
2006-11-01, 14:33
NOTE: I did change the settings from the same web-browser, but selecting the player I was controlling didn't seem to affect the random playlist filtering (ie: random filters appear to be a gloabal setting of slimserver, not something that is per-player adjustable).

Ahh - that setting is global. It's used to totaly exclude certain genres (i.e. I would never want "Spoken Word" tracks in a random mix). There are, I believe, other ways of creating mixes from a specific genre which would be per player (actually more like "per session" as you can sync multiple players together).



I'm mainly interested in dynamic playlist creation (ie: random or preferably 'smart' based on chosen/skipped songs, mood, genre, last-played-time, etc), but I need multi-user support as I will have several listeners and I don't want them poluting each other's statistics (ie: I don't want to listen to (very much of) my wife's music, and she probably doesn't want to listen to most of mine! :).

Slimserver has no concept of users, so whilst a dynamic playlist plugin could keep stats based on player they'll have no way to tie them to who is listening at the time. I'll admit that while I'm pretty familiar with slimserver I never use random and very rarely use playlists, so I'm probably not going to be much help if those are your preferred mechanisms!



I'm wondering what happens when my wife and I share a player in a common location (like the living room), and how we prevent steping on each other's settings (particularly if I get some sort of dynamic playlist generator like MusicIP setup).


My understanding (never having actually used it) is that MusicIP works based on a specific track (i.e. play "stuff like this") in which case the user isn't relevant. In terms of "stepping on each others settings", well like I said it's not something I've ever really noticed. I listen to whole albums, my fiance has playlists which she maintains as that's how she prefers to listen. So I go to "Browse Albums" and she goes to "Browse Playlists"...and that's about it. If you were using dynamic playlists I don't see what would stop you just having multiple playlists with names which made it obvious whose was whose.

JJZolx
2006-11-01, 15:20
I like the idea of the squeezebox (especially the flac/ogg support!), and I'm currently testing the slimserver software with multiple software players to see how well it might work for me.

The first issue I've run into is support for independent settings for each player. It appears that each player sports independent playlists (and some formatting settings) in the slimserver web interface, but I'm having problems with 'cross-coupling' of other settings.

For my first test, I simply set one player to use a "Random Song List" playlist (using all available music). This worked fine until I hooked up a second (software) player on a different machine and set *IT* to use a "Random Song List" as well, but this time restricted to only christmas music. Once I added the second player, my first random playlist started adding only christmas music, apparently 'inheriting' the genre filter setting from the second player.
Sounds like a shortcoming of the Random Mix plugin. When you press 'Play', it saves the selected genre list. This affects any new songs added to any random mix playlist, no matter the player. I wonder if anyone ever thought of that.


I also noticed the gross hack (multiple instances of slimserver with iptables redirection) required to provide different music library support to different players: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?RunningMultipleSlimServers
You're right, it's a gross hack of the ugliest kind. Unfortunately, it's all there is right now.


Is somthing like multiple instances of slimserver required to keep them from "cross-coupling"? I hope not, as my wife and I have very different listening habits, and I don't really like the way the multiple instance thing is setup (ie: what happens if I want to listen on my wife's player?).
You'd go into the player's setup and connect that player to the other server. Takes a bit of time and effort - certainly much more than a menu item to change libraries would.


If it matters, I'm planning on setting up some of the dynamic auto-playlist generation plugins (ie: SQLPlayList & MusicMagic), which may help (or worsen) the player cross-coupling issues.

Is anyone using multiple squeezeboxes with multiple users from the same slimserver? If so, how well does it work, and how different are your listening tastes?

Any advice, pointers, URL's, etc. appreciated. Thanks!
Running multiple SlimServers takes some effort, so you really have to want it badly. To do this on Windows you really need to know what you're doing. Setting up multiple IP addresses on the computer, then installing your own MySQL server instead of SlimServer's. Then configuring the multiple instances of SlimServer to use different databases, IP addresses, preference files, cache folders. If you want make each instance run as a Windows service, even more hoops to jump through, and a number of SlimServer bugs that will trip you up along the way.

Marc Sherman
2006-11-01, 15:38
JJZolx wrote:
>
>> I also noticed the gross hack (multiple instances of slimserver with
>> iptables redirection) required to provide different music library
>> support to different players:
>> http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?RunningMultipleSlimServers
> You're right, it's a gross hack of the ugliest kind. Unfortunately,
> it's all there is right now.

Custom Browse with genre filters might be a reasonable replacement.

- Marc

Siduhe
2006-11-01, 15:53
If you are using MusicMagic (now MusicIP) you can use a single instance of Slimserver / MusicIP but set up filters to exclude songs or sets of songs for your mixes.

We also have two very different music libraries and tend not to want to "cross mix", so we have a top level directory "Media" then two sub-folders below, one for each of our libraries. If I want to create an MIP mix, I just ask it to use Filter=Siduhe (i.e only mix with tracks from my library).

Works pretty well for us.

cdsteinkuehler
2006-11-01, 16:02
Hmm...I'd thought about using multiple media directories (ie: one for me, one for my wife), but wasn't sure I could filter on file location. Sounds like I can.

This still doesn't seem ideal, but is at least not too bad on my linux box (where symlinks can be used to prevent duplication of overlapped content).

Thanks for the tip!

Charles Steinkuehler

Siduhe
2006-11-01, 16:09
wasn't sure I could filter on file location. Sounds like I can.


Yup, definitely possible ("File contains Siduhe"). You can also filter by rating (the rating in MIP) which works well.

The limitation is that you can't combine filters in Slimserver - i.e. "Filter=3star and above" and "Filter=Siduhe" without creating a new, seperate Filter in MIP.