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View Full Version : The Logitech remote paradox



autopilot
2006-10-19, 16:38
People are already talking about a new remote, which would be great, however this opens up a whole new can of worms itself when concidering todays takeover news.

Unless it's a IR based device (limited functionality and not what people want) or just a fancy Logitech/SD branded web tablet (i.e. a crippled 770), it's going to have to have some kind of proprietory software if it's going to be as slick as, and compete with, the Sono's.

So, my questions are; Are logitech prepared to build a device and software that will function in Linux and all the OS's that SlimServer currently does? And will that remote's software be open source? Surely it would have to be if it's integrate effectively with an open source SlimServer and allow devs to add features to Slimserver and use them with the remote. Thats why i dont believe it can stay open source for long, Logitech clearly intend to intergrate it into thier own product portfolio. There is no way they will start making there own products open, something will have to give.

So how is this going to work? Should we be careful what we wish for?

Kyle
2006-10-19, 18:07
Looks like their new Harmony 1000 is either line of sight or with a optional IR repeater that operates on RF. Seems like that would be compatible with any system.

mherger
2006-10-19, 23:51
> Looks like their new Harmony 1000 is either line of sight or with a
> optional IR repeater that operates on RF. Seems like that would be
> compatible with any system.

Can you receive cover art through IR from the SB? :-)

A new remote as everybody is talking about will imho need wireless
networking to be easily integrated with SlimServer.

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.herger.net/SlimCD - your SlimServer on a CD
http://www.herger.net/slim - AlbumReview, Biography, MusicInfoSCR

tommypeters
2006-10-20, 03:20
Unless it's a IR based device (limited functionality and not what people want) or just a fancy Logitech/SD branded web tablet (i.e. a crippled 770), it's going to have to have some kind of proprietory software if it's going to be as slick as, and compete with, the Sono's.
I think we need a snappier and better 770 - not a crippled one - at a lower price...

Patrick Dixon
2006-10-20, 03:39
> Looks like their new Harmony 1000 is either line of sight or with a
> optional IR repeater that operates on RF. Seems like that would be
> compatible with any system.

Can you receive cover art through IR from the SB? :-)

A new remote as everybody is talking about will imho need wireless
networking to be easily integrated with SlimServer.

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.herger.net/SlimCD - your SlimServer on a CD
http://www.herger.net/slim - AlbumReview, Biography, MusicInfoSCRSpot on - it has to have two way communication.

Marc Sherman
2006-10-20, 05:19
autopilot wrote:
> People are already talking about a new remote, which would be great,
> however this opens up a whole new can of worms itself when concidering
> todays takeover news.
>
> Unless it's a IR based device (limited functionality and not what
> people want) or just a fancy Logitech/SD branded web tablet (i.e. a
> crippled 770), it's going to have to have some kind of proprietory
> software if it's going to be as slick as, and compete with, the
> Sono's.
>
> [snip] Thats why i dont believe it can stay open source for
> long, Logitech clearly intend to intergrate it into thier own product
> portfolio. There is no way they will start making there own products
> open, something will have to give.

There's a bit of a flaw in your premise. It would be perfectly possible
to create a fully closed-source remote control that integrated with an
open source slimserver using the already existing CLI and HTTP protocols
(CLI for command stream, HTTP for album art download).

As for closing the source of the slimserver itself, that would probably
be very difficult for Logitech to do legally. I'd be surprised if all of
the prolific community contributors to the server, such as kdf et al,
assigned copyright of all of their significant contributions to Slim
Devices. Since Logitech doesn't own full copyright over the codebase,
they'd either need the agreement of all the other copyright holders to
relicense, or to remove all of the community contributed patches to
excise the non-Logitech-owned code.

- Marc

Paul Webster
2006-10-20, 23:23
The (optional?) RF piece of the Harmony remote seems to conform to z-wave
http://www.zen-sys.com/
There is an implication with the "My Pictures", reportedly seen on some screenshots of the Harmony 1000, that it is bi-directional (assuming that the pictures were not loaded via USB).

So - I'd imagine that an add-on to the Squeezebox or a new model with z-wave support might be enough.
It shouldn't need wi-fi speed to get browsable cover art.

Putting the support into the firmware would be moving from slim towards fat and from open towards closed but supporting a "standard" that seems to be endorsed by lots of home automation vendors might be a good move.

Paul Webster
2006-10-21, 01:40
... after a bit more digging ...
perhaps z-wave is not a good way to handle graphics.

It runs at 9600bps (i.e. like old serial link) - but sends small packets with very low user data space.

From their FAQ
Is there any limit to how long frames I can send?

To reduce the risk of collisions, and also to reduce the time a device needs to wait when doing a random back-off in those situations where collisions do occur, we have limited the frame size of a Z-Wave Command. You can send up to 54 bytes of data in a single frame, but most commands will only contain 2-4 bytes of application command data. If you need to transfer larger amounts of data between two devices, your application will need to split it up into smaller bites, and then reassemble them at the receiving end.


So - perhaps the RF function of the top-end remotes could be used to download images but looks like it would have to use some other protocol.