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View Full Version : Down to earth with a thud.......



Smiler33
2006-10-07, 04:44
After reading the response and responding in kind I started looking around at all this codec stuff.
I bought the Slim Devices Squeezebox to link directly to iTunes as I am sure many other people do and as a Mac owner who likes top-quality lossless audio Apple Lossless was the best option for my files.
I now find out that I have 2 choices:
1) Use FLAC and forget about using iTunes
2) Use ALAC and forget about using Squeezebox.
I read the reviews and chose this format over the Roku for the looks, ease of installation and most importantly, ALAC compatibility.
It looks like its not compatible.
Am I reading something wrong?
My Mac was pretty top spec when I bought it 2.5ghz Quad, 2.5gb ram.
From what I understand, the Mac has to convert the files to send to the Squeezebox. The Squeezebox graphic EQ looks like it is spasming and the sound stops and starts.
Is there any plans for the Squeezebox to support Apple Lossless users.
I have seen the Apple iTV box but do not want the the Video functionality or to have the TV on to use it.
I love my Squeezebox. Please help.

bpa
2006-10-07, 04:56
Do a network test to see if your problem is wireless and not transcoding .

What throughput do you get at 100% ?

Smiler33
2006-10-07, 04:58
Is that the Network test plug in?
I think it only goes to 5000
It was 100% all the way
Thanks
Smiler33

Smiler33
2006-10-07, 05:02
Current Test Rate : 5000 kbps


< 10 : 0 : 0%
< 20 : 0 : 0%
< 30 : 0 : 0%
< 40 : 0 : 0%
< 50 : 0 : 0%
< 60 : 0 : 0%
< 70 : 0 : 0%
< 75 : 0 : 0%
< 80 : 0 : 0%
< 85 : 0 : 0%
< 90 : 0 : 0%
< 95 : 0 : 0%
< 100 : 0 : 0%
>=100 : 2 :100% ##################################################
max : 100.000000
min : 100.000000
avg : 100.000000

bpa
2006-10-07, 05:03
That looks fine as long as it can be sustained - it runs for say 10 mins without any problems.

Can you turn on network health from the Front web page, play some files and then post the graphs.

Smiler33
2006-10-07, 05:11
I will do that. Thanks very much.

Smiler33

Smiler33
2006-10-07, 05:39
Just wired it with ethernet rather than wireless
Same problem.

The EQ display is still not that smooth. It has to be something about the AAC & Lossless files.
It plays 320 Mp3's no problem at all.

Smiler 33

CardinalFang
2006-10-07, 05:44
After reading the response and responding in kind I started looking around at all this codec stuff.
I bought the Slim Devices Squeezebox to link directly to iTunes as I am sure many other people do and as a Mac owner who likes top-quality lossless audio Apple Lossless was the best option for my files.
I now find out that I have 2 choices:
1) Use FLAC and forget about using iTunes
2) Use ALAC and forget about using Squeezebox.
I read the reviews and chose this format over the Roku for the looks, ease of installation and most importantly, ALAC compatibility.
It looks like its not compatible.
Am I reading something wrong?
My Mac was pretty top spec when I bought it 2.5ghz Quad, 2.5gb ram.
From what I understand, the Mac has to convert the files to send to the Squeezebox. The Squeezebox graphic EQ looks like it is spasming and the sound stops and starts.
Is there any plans for the Squeezebox to support Apple Lossless users.
I have seen the Apple iTV box but do not want the the Video functionality or to have the TV on to use it.
I love my Squeezebox. Please help.

I use Apple lossless on my ancient PowerMac (500Mhz) and it runs fine, so have you checked that your iTunes and QuickTime are in sync? Have you tried upgrading to the latest version?

That aside, do you have any other wireless devices or microwave ovens, DECT phones that might be causing a problem?

Paul

Smiler33
2006-10-07, 05:49
Good to chat to a Mac user.
I have Quicktime 7.13 and iTunes 7.
OS X 10.4.8
Slim server 6.5.0
Firmware 64

I think it is pretty current.
Any other ideas?

Smiler33

bpa
2006-10-07, 05:58
There was bug (and I think it is still open) about jerkiness of the freq display (Eq ?) when playing Flac (this is the default format for transcoding AAC/ALAC)- I think this is a separate issue from the sound issue.

Some plugins and other issues can interfewre with smooth running of SS. The network health monitor can sometimes show what is happening.

What plugins have you installed ?
Do you get the same sound problem with SoftSqueeze ?

Smiler33
2006-10-07, 06:07
I have just checked my router firmware and it appears that for some reason it was -7 gmt rather than +7gmt. My girlfriend took it into the store for repair last week. I corrected the time and it works okay now (well for the past 5 mins) I will keep testing and let you know how I got on. Thanks. Good idea about the syncing!

konnexion
2006-10-07, 08:23
I actually moved to a wired network setup using 85Mbps Netgear switches but still the buffer level can completely empty during a song causing the music to fall apart at that point.

Running SlimServer 6.5.0 on an iMAC G5 with 2Gb RAM and no other activity during music playback.

This has made me think twice about re-ripping to a lossless format as it would seem a crossover cable between the SqueezeBox and iMAC is the only way to fix this.

Ian

stinkingpig
2006-10-07, 08:37
On 10/7/06, konnexion <
konnexion.2fbd7n1160234701 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
>
> I actually moved to a wired network setup using 85Mbps Netgear switches
> but still the buffer level can completely empty during a song causing
> the music to fall apart at that point.
>
> Running SlimServer 6.5.0 on an iMAC G5 with 2Gb RAM and no other
> activity during music playback.
>
> This has made me think twice about re-ripping to a lossless format as
> it would seem a crossover cable between the SqueezeBox and iMAC is the
> only way to fix this.
>
> Ian
>
>
Something ain't right there. I'd try the network health plugin -- could be a
bad cable or a bad homeplug, bad wiring in your house, or maybe you've got a
buggy/misconfigured plugin, but you should not be seeing dropouts if you
actually have 85mbps of throughput.
--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional

bpa
2006-10-07, 09:09
Homeplug 85mbps rarely delivers 85Mbps - unless the locations are close together - 10-25Mbps is more realistic and possibly as low as 1-2Mpbs. See
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/2006/02/06/homeplug_turbo_adapter_round/index.html

If you are at the bottom end and something else decides to use the network heavily or there are a number of devices on the Homeplug network, throughput to the SB could suffer.

konnexion
2006-10-07, 09:54
I'm actually using the Netgear XE104 switch. When I first bought them there were no issues at all, could play lossless all night.

Using the Network Test Plugin with 5000Kbps I see average of 100% with current of 100% - never varies.

It's almost as if the buffering is left too late

Ian

Triode
2006-10-07, 10:04
Could you enable performance monitoring and see if it reports any problems (same place as network test on the web page)

konnexion
2006-10-07, 13:49
Not sure what else to show here, Buuffer Fullness would seem to be the key issue..

Buffer Fullness

< 10 : 26 : 8% ####
< 20 : 7 : 2% #
< 30 : 7 : 2% #
< 40 : 12 : 4% #
< 50 : 11 : 3% #
< 60 : 10 : 3% #
< 70 : 13 : 4% ##
< 80 : 26 : 8% ####
< 90 : 38 : 12% ######
< 100 : 166 : 53% ##########################
>=100 : 0 : 0%
max : 99.993324
min : 0.000000
avg : 76.095616

Control Connection

< 1 : 343 :100% ##################################################
< 2 : 0 : 0%
< 5 : 0 : 0%
< 10 : 0 : 0%
< 20 : 0 : 0%
>=20 : 0 : 0%
max : 0.000000
min : 0.000000
avg : 0.000000

konnexion
2006-10-07, 13:51
Server Response Time
The response time of the server - the time between successive calls to select.

< 0.002 : 24985 : 83% #########################################
< 0.005 : 3843 : 13% ######
< 0.01 : 708 : 2% #
< 0.015 : 90 : 0%
< 0.025 : 106 : 0%
< 0.05 : 104 : 0%
< 0.1 : 259 : 1%
< 0.5 : 49 : 0%
< 1 : 0 : 0%
< 5 : 0 : 0%
>=5 : 1 : 0%
max : 18423.718395
min : 0.000240
avg : 0.613479

Warning Thresholds : Low High Backtrace
Timer Lateness
The time between when a timer task was scheduled and when it is run.

< 0.002 : 1034 : 72% ####################################
< 0.005 : 136 : 9% ####
< 0.01 : 171 : 12% #####
< 0.015 : 29 : 2% #
< 0.025 : 19 : 1%
< 0.05 : 24 : 2%
< 0.1 : 16 : 1%
< 0.5 : 5 : 0%
< 1 : 0 : 0%
< 5 : 0 : 0%
>=5 : 0 : 0%
max : 0.293913
min : 0.000004
avg : 0.003798

Warning Thresholds : Low High Backtrace
Select Task Duration
The length of time taken by each task run by select.

< 0.002 : 25068 : 86% ##########################################
< 0.005 : 3620 : 12% ######
< 0.01 : 142 : 0%
< 0.015 : 55 : 0%
< 0.025 : 80 : 0%
< 0.05 : 70 : 0%
< 0.1 : 49 : 0%
< 0.5 : 99 : 0%
< 1 : 3 : 0%
< 5 : 0 : 0%
>=5 : 0 : 0%
max : 0.578214
min : 0.000119
avg : 0.001992

Warning Thresholds : Low High Backtrace
Timer Task Duration
The length of time taken by each timer task.

< 0.002 : 796 : 56% ###########################
< 0.005 : 235 : 16% ########
< 0.01 : 378 : 26% #############
< 0.015 : 12 : 1%
< 0.025 : 5 : 0%
< 0.05 : 6 : 0%
< 0.1 : 2 : 0%
< 0.5 : 0 : 0%
< 1 : 0 : 0%
< 5 : 0 : 0%
>=5 : 0 : 0%
max : 0.066191
min : 0.000151
avg : 0.002910

Warning Thresholds : Low High Backtrace
Execute / Notification Task Duration
The length of time taken by each execute command or notification callback.

< 0.002 : 24 : 75% #####################################
< 0.005 : 0 : 0%
< 0.01 : 0 : 0%
< 0.015 : 2 : 6% ###
< 0.025 : 3 : 9% ####
< 0.05 : 1 : 3% #
< 0.1 : 0 : 0%
< 0.5 : 2 : 6% ###
< 1 : 0 : 0%
< 5 : 0 : 0%
>=5 : 0 : 0%
max : 0.358750
min : 0.000094
avg : 0.020082

Warning Thresholds : Low High Backtrace
Scheduler Task Duration
The length of time taken by each scheduled task.

< 0.002 : 0 : 0%
< 0.005 : 0 : 0%
< 0.01 : 0 : 0%
< 0.015 : 0 : 0%
< 0.025 : 0 : 0%
< 0.05 : 0 : 0%
< 0.1 : 0 : 0%
< 0.5 : 0 : 0%
< 1 : 0 : 0%
< 5 : 0 : 0%
>=5 : 0 : 0%
max : 0.000000
min : 0.000000
avg : 0.000000

Warning Thresholds : Low High Backtrace
Database Access
The time taken for information to be retrieved from the database.

< 0.002 : 542 : 67% #################################
< 0.005 : 29 : 4% #
< 0.01 : 184 : 23% ###########
< 0.015 : 30 : 4% #
< 0.025 : 12 : 1%
< 0.05 : 9 : 1%
< 0.1 : 3 : 0%
< 0.5 : 2 : 0%
< 1 : 0 : 0%
< 5 : 0 : 0%
>=5 : 0 : 0%
max : 0.309692
min : 0.000127
avg : 0.003571

Warning Thresholds : Low High Backtrace
Web Page Build
The length of time taken to build each web page.

< 0.002 : 0 : 0%
< 0.005 : 0 : 0%
< 0.01 : 0 : 0%
< 0.015 : 0 : 0%
< 0.025 : 9 : 11% #####
< 0.05 : 1 : 1%
< 0.1 : 1 : 1%
< 0.5 : 72 : 86% ##########################################
< 1 : 1 : 1%
< 5 : 0 : 0%
>=5 : 0 : 0%
max : 0.561929
min : 0.016543
avg : 0.187138

Warning Thresholds : Low High Backtrace
Process Template
The time to process each Template Toolkit template when building web pages.

< 0.002 : 5587 : 83% #########################################
< 0.005 : 305 : 5% ##
< 0.01 : 91 : 1%
< 0.015 : 21 : 0%
< 0.025 : 329 : 5% ##
< 0.05 : 302 : 4% ##
< 0.1 : 66 : 1%
< 0.5 : 38 : 1%
< 1 : 0 : 0%
< 5 : 0 : 0%
>=5 : 0 : 0%
max : 0.442824
min : 0.000133
avg : 0.005149

Warning Thresholds : Low High Backtrace
IR Queue Length
The delay between an IR key press being received and being processed.

< 0.002 : 0 : 0%
< 0.005 : 0 : 0%
< 0.01 : 0 : 0%
< 0.015 : 0 : 0%
< 0.025 : 0 : 0%
< 0.05 : 0 : 0%
< 0.1 : 0 : 0%
< 0.5 : 0 : 0%
< 1 : 0 : 0%
< 5 : 0 : 0%
>=5 : 0 : 0%
max : 0.000000
min : 0.000000
avg : 0.000000

konnexion
2006-10-07, 16:53
May have got to the bottom of this. The switch in question has actually completely failed tonight. For now have replaced it with a nearby Apple Airport Express which extends my Airport Extreme wifi network. Buffer remains full throughout a songs playback. SO back goes the switch for a replacement.

Ian

stinkingpig
2006-10-07, 17:40
On 10/7/06, konnexion <
konnexion.2fc0tn1160265302 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
>
> May have got to the bottom of this. The switch in question has actually
> completely failed tonight. For now have replaced it with a nearby Apple
> Airport Express which extends my Airport Extreme wifi network. Buffer
> remains full throughout a songs playback. SO back goes the switch for a
> replacement.
>
> Ian
>
>
Ah, those fine NetGear products. I once was asked to troubleshoot a DS3
which was running at 4 Mbps instead of 45... I go look in the data center,
and between the Catalyst 5500 backbone switch and the Sun E420 Check Point
FireWall-1 there is a... 25-port NetGear. Customer will not believe that it
could possibly be the problem, so I have to spend a day monitoring the
firewall and the switch and the telco to prove that they aren't the problem.
He still won't believe me. So I propose that we wrap the whole rack in
tinfoil to isolate it from EMF... or we could maybe try taking the NetGear
out. Shockingly, when we replaced it with a patch cable, the problem went
away instantly. Too bad, I was looking forward to the tinfoil :)

To be fair, NetGear is not alone in shipping cheap junk... I've gotten
plenty of poor performance and DOA equipment from all the others that you
can buy at CompUSA or BestBuy. The point is to remember that you got it for
cheap and to immediately suspect poor quality of SOHO gear is the root cause
for a performance problem.
--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional

CardinalFang
2006-10-26, 08:48
I use Apple lossless on my ancient PowerMac (500Mhz) and it runs fine, so have you checked that your iTunes and QuickTime are in sync? Have you tried upgrading to the latest version?

That aside, do you have any other wireless devices or microwave ovens, DECT phones that might be causing a problem?

Paul

I just had another thought - I found that every time one of my daughters played a song on iTunes from a different computer, it updated the itunes database and so triggered a rescan of the library by SlimServer and that caused all sorts of stuttering. Try turning off the automatic rescanning on changes to the library.