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Jason
2003-12-06, 11:39
Yes I do. If I am reading a web board then I can simply see that a thread
has degenerated and stop following it. I won't be getting emails every 5
minutes from EGO maniacs who are out to prove to the world that elm is what
everyone should use for reading email.

Additionally a moderator of a web based discussion board can delete abusive
or off topic threads before most members even read them.

There is also a built in archive/search capability which does not require
that you personally archive all messages that you have received from the
list.

I mean come on, the last time I was subscribed to an email list was when it
was the only option available (college, 1991).

I am here because I love the Slim, support the Slim Devices folks, and want
to help other folks out with problems.

If it becomes too much of a headache wading through all of the BS msgs
though then I will simply be forced to un-subscribe (which I think is going
to happen with a lot of folks who will simply find this sort of list too
intimidating for basic discussion).

-J

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of Tim Long
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 11:16 AM
To: SlimDevices Discussion
Subject: [slim] RFC: slimdevices.com mailing list configuration

What kind of logic is that? You think putting the list behind a web
server magically makes a difference?

--Tim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason [mailto:jason (AT) pagefamily (DOT) net]
> Sent: Saturday 6 December 2003 07:15
> To: 'SlimDevices Discussion'
> Subject: [slim] RFC: slimdevices.com mailing list
> configuration
>
> Bologna flame wars and ego strutting like this are exactly
> why this list should be retired and replaced with a web based
> forum with MODERATION.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
> [mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of
> Mark C. Langston
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:57 PM
> To: SlimDevices Discussion
> Subject: [slim] RFC: slimdevices.com mailing list
> configuration
>
> On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 10:45:19PM -0500, Rob Funk wrote:
> >
> > This is not a techie list. On a techie list this is a reasonable
> > expectation. On a non-techie list it is not.
> >
>
> Following standards and conventions is only appropriate on
> techie lists?
> violating them is perfectly acceptable on non-techie lists?
>
> I see. So you're perfectly fine with bottom-quoting,
> "quoted-printable", large attachments, and similar crap being
> sent to the list too, I suppose. After all, we should only
> follow standards and conventions on "techie" lists.
>
> And a word on that: This list is for a product that, last
> time I checked, assumes you know how to add a new networked
> device to an RFC1918-compliant home network and install perl
> correctly, at a minimum.
> It's also for a product that's by-and-large marketed to the
> Linux crowd (see repeated /. coverage) because it's OSS and
> Perl-based.
>
> That's far from the "non-techie" crowd.
>
> >
> > I suspect you will deliberately try to mess with the list
> to provoke
> > such
> a
> > change.
> >
>
>
> No, I won't. But I suspect you'll happily shoot and
> otherwise vilify the messenger when those things do come to
> pass. I said they were inevitable simply because they've
> occurred on every mailing list with which I'm familiar of any
> substance and size that had ever had Reply-To:
> munged. And I'm familiar with quite a few lists.
>
> >
> > Is that a threat?
> >
>
> No; again, it's simply a statement of fact. That you
> interpret it as a threat is telling, however. Perhaps you're
> just a tad over-defensive?
>
> I'm not an unreasonable person. I am, however, a person of principle.
> Sean knows this. Dean knows this. The rest of the original
> contributors know this, I believe. I don't know if it's
> still in the current version of the server, but if it is, you
> might want to check the developer's name easter egg sometime.
> I'm happy to contribute. I'm just as happy to leav ewhen
> things get irrational, as they seem to be becoming.
>
>
> >
> > You're banging your head against the existing standards on
> this list,
>
> Dean asked that this issue be hashed out publicly.
>
> >
> > A system configuration setting is not a law of physics.
> >
>
> It is until it's changed or subverted. And we weren't
> discussing the setting qua setting; we were discussing the
> setting as an embodiment of or variance from a net-wide
> standard and historical convention.
>
> > The current system is working just fine.
>
>
> ...for now, which was my point. Perhaps you missed it?
>
>
>
> > It's about playing to the audience.
> >
>
> Yes, you do seem to want to do that, don't you? How about
> engaging in debate rather than rhetoric?
>
> >
> > In that case, I hope you're banned from the list for
> causing problems
> > out of a desire to see your dire predictions vindicated.
> >
>
>
> If Sean asks me to leave, I'll leave.
>
> --
> Mark C. Langston Sr. Unix SysAdmin
> mark (AT) bitshift (DOT) org mark (AT) seti (DOT) org
> Systems & Network Admin SETI Institute
> http://bitshift.org http://www.seti.org
>

Jack Coates
2003-12-06, 12:12
On Sat, 2003-12-06 at 10:39, Jason wrote:
> Yes I do. If I am reading a web board then I can simply see that a thread
> has degenerated and stop following it. I won't be getting emails every 5
> minutes from EGO maniacs who are out to prove to the world that elm is what
> everyone should use for reading email.
....

All email clients have the ability to filter messages from a mailing
list into a folder and thread the display. It's pretty easy to delete
worthless threads without reading them. Faster than a forum in my
opinion, but I'd also like to point out that the last flamewar on this
list was the fora vs. mailing lists spat. Are you sure you want to
restart that one?
--
Jack at Monkeynoodle Dot Org: It's A Scientific Venture...
************************************************** ********************
*"Just like the queen of the trailer park, sometimes she's the queen *
*of the water of the river." *
*-- (I Was Born In A) Laundromat from Key Lime Pie by Camper Van *
*Beethoven *
************************************************** ********************

Daniel Rich
2003-12-06, 13:10
You know, I wasn't going to get into this, but as a sysadmin and
mailing list manager and webmaster I figured it was time to jump in.

On Dec 6, 2003, at 10:39 AM, Jason wrote:
>
> Additionally a moderator of a web based discussion board can delete
> abusive
> or off topic threads before most members even read them.

Which is no different from a moderated mailing list. Personally I
don't like waiting for someone else to say "yes, you can read this
posting now".

> There is also a built in archive/search capability which does not
> require
> that you personally archive all messages that you have received from
> the
> list.

There's an archive for this list too. You can unsubscribe from the
list and just read it there if the e-mail messages really bother you.

> I mean come on, the last time I was subscribed to an email list was
> when it
> was the only option available (college, 1991).

Wow, I'm amazed. I'm subscribed to twenty or thirty of them ranging
from Linux kernel driver development to home automation to completely
non-technical topics. And, there are web boards I use as well.
Personally I prefer the mailing lists since I get information
immediately without having to remember to go check a web site
somewhere.
>
> If it becomes too much of a headache wading through all of the BS msgs
> though then I will simply be forced to un-subscribe (which I think is
> going
> to happen with a lot of folks who will simply find this sort of list
> too
> intimidating for basic discussion).

If that's what you think then you should probably unsubscribe and read
the messages from the web archives. Most people are probably just
using the filters in their e-mail software to folder the messages and
then read the folder. Or, like me, they leave them in their main
mailbox and just delete the messages threads they don't want to read.

--
> Dan Rich <drich (AT) employees (DOT) org> | http://www.employees.org/~drich/
> | "Step up to red alert!" "Are you
> sure, sir?
> | It means changing the bulb in the
> sign..."
> | - Red Dwarf (BBC)