PDA

View Full Version : RFC: slimdevices.com mailing list configuration



Jason
2003-12-06, 00:14
Bologna flame wars and ego strutting like this are exactly why this list
should be retired and replaced with a web based forum with MODERATION.

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Langston
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:57 PM
To: SlimDevices Discussion
Subject: [slim] RFC: slimdevices.com mailing list configuration

On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 10:45:19PM -0500, Rob Funk wrote:
>
> This is not a techie list. On a techie list this is a reasonable
> expectation. On a non-techie list it is not.
>

Following standards and conventions is only appropriate on techie lists?
violating them is perfectly acceptable on non-techie lists?

I see. So you're perfectly fine with bottom-quoting,
"quoted-printable", large attachments, and similar crap being sent to
the list too, I suppose. After all, we should only follow standards and
conventions on "techie" lists.

And a word on that: This list is for a product that, last time I
checked, assumes you know how to add a new networked device to an
RFC1918-compliant home network and install perl correctly, at a minimum.
It's also for a product that's by-and-large marketed to the Linux crowd
(see repeated /. coverage) because it's OSS and Perl-based.

That's far from the "non-techie" crowd.

>
> I suspect you will deliberately try to mess with the list to provoke such
a
> change.
>


No, I won't. But I suspect you'll happily shoot and otherwise vilify
the messenger when those things do come to pass. I said they were
inevitable simply because they've occurred on every mailing list with
which I'm familiar of any substance and size that had ever had Reply-To:
munged. And I'm familiar with quite a few lists.

>
> Is that a threat?
>

No; again, it's simply a statement of fact. That you interpret it as a
threat is telling, however. Perhaps you're just a tad over-defensive?

I'm not an unreasonable person. I am, however, a person of principle.
Sean knows this. Dean knows this. The rest of the original
contributors know this, I believe. I don't know if it's still in the
current version of the server, but if it is, you might want to check the
developer's name easter egg sometime. I'm happy to contribute. I'm
just as happy to leav ewhen things get irrational, as they seem to be
becoming.


>
> You're banging your head against the existing standards on this list,

Dean asked that this issue be hashed out publicly.

>
> A system configuration setting is not a law of physics.
>

It is until it's changed or subverted. And we weren't discussing the
setting qua setting; we were discussing the setting as an embodiment of
or variance from a net-wide standard and historical convention.

> The current system is working just fine.


....for now, which was my point. Perhaps you missed it?



> It's about playing to the audience.
>

Yes, you do seem to want to do that, don't you? How about engaging in
debate rather than rhetoric?

>
> In that case, I hope you're banned from the list for causing problems out
> of a desire to see your dire predictions vindicated.
>


If Sean asks me to leave, I'll leave.

--
Mark C. Langston Sr. Unix SysAdmin
mark (AT) bitshift (DOT) org mark (AT) seti (DOT) org
Systems & Network Admin SETI Institute
http://bitshift.org http://www.seti.org

Kevin Deane-Freeman
2003-12-06, 00:29
I'm all for open and free expression. play on as much as you like.

as a "contributor", I truly hope that this has not taken away from those who
have questions. if those questions go unanswered, then something truly
important is being lost.

I have several cases of wine, and should anyone wish to partake, its an open
invite to share. My girldfriend is soon to be a grandmother(!), of all things,
and so I wonder....what else can be so important?

-kdf

Jack Coates
2003-12-06, 09:23
On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 23:29, Kevin Deane-Freeman wrote:
> I'm all for open and free expression. play on as much as you like.
>

Yeah, silly flame wars come and go. As long as they stay off religion
and politics, the moderators usually don't need to step in and start
kicking people off. The important thing is that everyone else out there
realizes that I'm right and they're wrong. I have no idea how the rest
of the world persists in so much wrong-headed thinking! :-)

> as a "contributor", I truly hope that this has not taken away from those who
> have questions. if those questions go unanswered, then something truly
> important is being lost.
>
> I have several cases of wine, and should anyone wish to partake, its an open
> invite to share. My girldfriend is soon to be a grandmother(!), of all things,
> and so I wonder....what else can be so important?
>
> -kdf

Congratulations! Regarding the wine, well, I just have to laugh at what
my sig script kicked out this time...
--
Jack at Monkeynoodle Dot Org: It's A Scientific Venture...
************************************************** ********************
* "Learned men as years gone by have written your praises high, A *
* sweet poitin from Ireland green that's made with wheat and rye. Go *
* away with your pills it'll cure all ills for Pagan or Christian or *
* Jew, take off your coat and grease your throat with a bucketful of *
* mountain dew." *
* -- Mountain Dew, Traditional (as performed by The Dubliners) *
************************************************** ********************

Ted Rathkopf
2003-12-06, 22:47
Aaarr, "Jason" <jason (AT) pagefamily (DOT) net>
What ye be sayin'?

> Bologna flame wars and ego strutting like this are exactly why this list
> should be retired and replaced with a web based forum with MODERATION.

Yuck. If this list moves to a web based forum, I'll likely never read
it again.

--
Ted Rathkopf

dean
2003-12-07, 09:28
On Dec 6, 2003, at 9:47 PM, Ted Rathkopf wrote:

> Aaarr, "Jason" <jason (AT) pagefamily (DOT) net>
> What ye be sayin'?
>
>> Bologna flame wars and ego strutting like this are exactly why this
>> list
>> should be retired and replaced with a web based forum with MODERATION.
>
> Yuck. If this list moves to a web based forum, I'll likely never read
> it again.

Me too.

Ross McKillop
2003-12-07, 09:50
I know this has become an off-topic rant, and this probably shouldnt be
how I make my first post to this list... but I felt compelled :P

Why not keep both sides happy, provide access by either a mailing list
or a web forum, and then all those that dont like the way the eMail
version works can access it on the web

Just an idea, oh and hi - as i'm new! :P

On 7 Dec 2003, at 16:28, dean blackketter wrote:

>
> On Dec 6, 2003, at 9:47 PM, Ted Rathkopf wrote:
>
>> Aaarr, "Jason" <jason (AT) pagefamily (DOT) net>
>> What ye be sayin'?
>>
>>> Bologna flame wars and ego strutting like this are exactly why this
>>> list
>>> should be retired and replaced with a web based forum with
>>> MODERATION.
>>
>> Yuck. If this list moves to a web based forum, I'll likely never read
>> it again.
>
> Me too.
>
>
>

Jack Coates
2003-12-07, 10:26
On Sun, 2003-12-07 at 08:50, Ross McKillop wrote:
> I know this has become an off-topic rant, and this probably shouldnt be
> how I make my first post to this list... but I felt compelled :P
>
> Why not keep both sides happy, provide access by either a mailing list
> or a web forum, and then all those that dont like the way the eMail
> version works can access it on the web
>
> Just an idea, oh and hi - as i'm new! :P
>

IIRC, there are plans to do so -- there have also been at least one or
two people huffing away with plans to make their own fora, which may
have actually happened.

Providing a separate forum would probably be a lot easier than trying to
integrate a forum package with Mailman.
> ...>
> >> Yuck. If this list moves to a web based forum, I'll likely never read
> >> it again.
> >
> > Me too.
> >
> >...

me three, but someone might as well toss up a copy of phorum or
something to keep the... the... the... people who like fora happy.
--
Jack at Monkeynoodle Dot Org: It's A Scientific Venture...
************************************************** *********************
*"You'll work harder with a gun in your back for a bowl of rice a day"*
*-- Holiday in Cambodia from Give Me Convenience Or Give Me Death *
*by The Dead Kennedys *
************************************************** *********************

David Cantrell
2003-12-08, 03:37
On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 11:47:59PM -0600, Ted Rathkopf wrote:
> "Jason" <jason (AT) pagefamily (DOT) net> wrote:
> > Bologna flame wars and ego strutting like this are exactly why this list
> > should be retired and replaced with a web based forum with MODERATION.
> Yuck. If this list moves to a web based forum, I'll likely never read
> it again.

I haven't yet bought me a squeezebox - I'm waiting for my bonus to come
through in the new year - but if I am forced to use an inferior
web-based interface to discuss any problems, I probably won't go
spending my money.

Yes, inferior. Web-based discussion forums suck for all sorts of
reasons, including:

I have to remember yet another username/password. it's bad practice
to use the same one everywhere, plus different software has different
requirements for login names - some use my email address for the
login, some assign me a numeric ID, others let me choose a "handle" -
but they have different constraints on what the handle can be. They
have different constraints on allowable characters in the password
too.

I have to remember to go to a web site. I don't have to remember to
go to a mailing list. Remember a few years ago there was all that
hype about "push" technology? Well, email is the ultimate "push"
technology. It's also the only one that consistently WORKS.

The web is high bandwidth. Although I have DSL at home, I often have
to revert to the savage dark ages and use dial-up. Over a mobile
phone. At 56k web fora are painful enough, at 9.6k they are unusable.
However, at 9.6k I can just set my mail client running while I make a
nice cup of tea.

--
David Cantrell | Reprobate | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

Blessed are the pessimists, for they test their backups
-- anon