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dazzler9000
2006-08-22, 14:19
Hi,

First post here so I must get one chance to ask silly questions!!

I have just bought a SB3 and have some basic questions regarding DAC's. I have a Yamaha RX-V2600 and wanted to use the DAC's from this. I assume I need to use the digital connections rather than the analogue (which I also assume use the SB DAC) is this correct?

What would be the better DAC out of the two devices?

blackbear
2006-08-22, 14:41
dazzler,

You are correct regarding the connections.
As to which DAC sounds best, you'll just have to listen and judge for yourselves.

ezkcdude
2006-08-22, 15:04
As to which DAC sounds best, you'll just have to listen and judge for yourselves.

No, he won't. We can tell him what's best ;)

dazzler9000
2006-08-22, 15:26
Just tried it actually, the Yamaha DAC sounds much better!!

Thanks.

samplesj
2006-08-22, 17:42
Its likely unless you are fairly careful that the receiver is going to put the input signal through an ADC and then back through its DAC even when fed analog.

If you've got some sort of pure direct mode you might want to try sb3 analog vs dac using that input. If all else fails try the 5.1/7.1 SACD/DVDA inputs since they should be clean.

pfarrell
2006-08-22, 17:56
samplesj wrote:
> Its likely unless you are fairly careful that the receiver is going to
> put the input signal through an ADC and then back through its DAC even
> when fed analog.

A lot of (all?) reasonably priced consumer theater receivers convert all
analog signals to digital using their own ADC so they can do things like
room mode, virtual effects, cathedral mode, etc. It takes a fairly
expensive one to even have pure pass thru analog. For a lot of folks,
they need bass management, since their main speakers are too small to
play bass, all the sat/sub systems need to digitize things just to fire
up the bass management software.

For any of these receivers, using their internal DAC makes sense even
though it is unlikely that they are as 'good' or well engineered as the
one in the SB3. Not so slam Yamaha, Pioneer, etc, but because we know
Sean cares about this stuff, and makes it one of his design goals.

--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

P Floding
2006-08-23, 00:34
Just tried it actually, the Yamaha DAC sounds much better!!

Thanks.

Are you sure you don't have surround processing turned on, or some other effect?

dazzler9000
2006-08-23, 13:14
I do normally play music through 7ch mode/2ch mode so I guess this is not a fair test. I do have a pure direct mode on my amp so I will give it a go!!

I don't know much about DAC's so I was asking an innocent question - Would the DAC on a 900 AV amp be better than a 165 SB DAC? I get the opinion that you would definitely favour the SB?






samplesj wrote:
> Its likely unless you are fairly careful that the receiver is going to
> put the input signal through an ADC and then back through its DAC even
> when fed analog.

A lot of (all?) reasonably priced consumer theater receivers convert all
analog signals to digital using their own ADC so they can do things like
room mode, virtual effects, cathedral mode, etc. It takes a fairly
expensive one to even have pure pass thru analog. For a lot of folks,
they need bass management, since their main speakers are too small to
play bass, all the sat/sub systems need to digitize things just to fire
up the bass management software.

For any of these receivers, using their internal DAC makes sense even
though it is unlikely that they are as 'good' or well engineered as the
one in the SB3. Not so slam Yamaha, Pioneer, etc, but because we know
Sean cares about this stuff, and makes it one of his design goals.

--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

pfarrell
2006-08-23, 13:31
dazzler9000 wrote:
> I don't know much about DAC's so I was asking an innocent question -
> Would the DAC on a 900 AV amp be better than a 165 SB DAC? I get the
> opinion that you would definitely favour the SB?

I don't know about 900 AV receivers, the one in my theater was more
like $400.

But you aren't asking an apples to apples comparison.
The Receiver has power amps, switching gear, probably an FM tuner, and
all sorts of other stuff. So the DAC part of it is probably no more than
a $20 part. A major part of the sound is the quality of the software.

I personally have never played my SqueezeBoxes thru my AV receiver.
My casual SqueezeBox drives some powered AR Partner speakers from a
decade or more ago. My serious SqueezeBox goes into a Benchmark DAC-1
and then using balanced cables, into a Classe amplifier. My SqueezeBoxes
are fairly old, I would expect the new ones to sound better than my old
one, and maybe if I had new ones, I wouldn't need my DAC-1. But what I
have works great, so I'm happy.

For me, it is about the music, not the gear.

The good news about DACs is that you can nearly always add one later if
you decide you are not thrilled with the sound you are getting.

As a bit of guidance, I would not expect a 100 DAC to sound better
than the 165 SB DAC, all else being equal. Once you get up to
500 or $1000, I would expect that the external DAC would have a
potential to sound better. But it might not.

The reality is that speakers and room acoustics are far more important
once you get 'reasonable' from your system.


--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

dazzler9000
2006-08-23, 14:25
Yes I know exactly what you are saying, I can appreciate that an AV amp has lots of other components that make up the price. I just had a look at the spec actually and the Yam 2600 uses Burr-Brown 192 kHz/24-Bit DACs for All Channels, isn't this the same DAC as the SB?

I am very happy with the sound through my speaker set up (GS Monitor Audio), so I think I will stop worrying and sit back and enjoy.

Thanks for all your advice.

Phil Leigh
2006-08-23, 14:32
Yes I know exactly what you are saying, I can appreciate that an AV amp has lots of other components that make up the price. I just had a look at the spec actually and the Yam 2600 uses Burr-Brown 192 kHz/24-Bit DACs for All Channels, isn't this the same DAC as the SB?

I am very happy with the sound through my speaker set up (GS Monitor Audio), so I think I will stop worrying and sit back and enjoy.

Thanks for all your advice.

Good idea (btw there's a lot more to getting a good sound out of a DAC than the choice of chip! - if only it was that simple, I imagine Sean & co could have more "Miller time")
:o)