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mherger
2006-08-08, 00:14
> I'm interested in DS-106 + SSODS for a pretty large music collection.
> Can the DS-106:
>
> * be used from a Win98SE computer?

Yes.

> * have (for example) one internal 500GB disk + one eSATA 500GB +
> two-three USB-2 500GB disks? Or is there a max total GB?

Don't know.

> * be reached from a Slimserver run on a PC? (if a faster computer is
> running Slimserver you connect to it and it uses the DS-106 as a
> network disk, though Slimserver is running concurrently on the DS-106.

Yes, as long as the computer running slimserver can access the share containing the music.

> When the PC is turned off you select, on the SB3, the "backup"
> Slimserver on the DS-106 instead - pointing to the same music data)?

Should work ok. But why not having it run on the Diskstation only?

tommypeters
2006-08-08, 03:44
Many thanks for you taking the time to move the thread to the correct place and answering the questions at the same time :)


> I'm interested in DS-106 + SSODS for a pretty large music collection.
> Can the DS-106:
>
> * be used from a Win98SE computer?

Yes.

> * have (for example) one internal 500GB disk + one eSATA 500GB +
> two-three USB-2 500GB disks? Or is there a max total GB?

Don't know.
Well, I send some questions to Synology 10 days ago and got a prompt answer, this question was one of the new in a follow-up email - haven't gotten any answer on that yet.

> * be reached from a Slimserver run on a PC? (if a faster computer is
> running Slimserver you connect to it and it uses the DS-106 as a
> network disk, though Slimserver is running concurrently on the DS-106.

Yes, as long as the computer running slimserver can access the share containing the music.

> When the PC is turned off you select, on the SB3, the "backup"
> Slimserver on the DS-106 instead - pointing to the same music data)?

Should work ok. But why not having it run on the Diskstation only?

First, I have had my two SB3's for a very short time and not have had time to learn all about them - and even les about SSODS - so some precautions may be unnecessary. But I'm a little paranoid right now after having had to deal with Maktor and Western Digital support about their network disks...

1) I read SSODS has no support for 3rd party plugins, but that some (many/all?) are possible to add by some manual labour and skill. So if I like a plugin, and can't get it on the Synology, I might wan't to run the Slimserver on the PC when it's anyway running. One biggy for the Synology is that my wife should be able to listen to music when I'm not at home, but if it's gonna run better on a computer I might do that when it's possible.

BTW, "3rd party plugins"? Are any of the plugins "1st party" - included in the Slimserver? like showing the clock when turned off...

2) Speed, I don't know if I will feel running on the DS-106 is a tad slow. If so, it would have to act just as a backup solution for listening to music when no computer is running.

3) When I rip new CD's and not have time to or can't find any cover art, it would be nice to have that on a PC local disc until it's ready (or deemed too hard to find cover art to download - and my scanner isn't working...) - and then moving it to the DS-106. Until that, Slimserver running on a PC could - using links - acces both the DS-106 and the "local" music.

4) Testing new versions of Slimserver. Until I find it stable, it's better not installing a new version on the DS-106. Installing/uninstalling it on a PC is much easier.

mherger
2006-08-08, 06:38
BTW, "3rd party plugins"? Are any of the plugins "1st party" - included in the Slimserver? like showing the clock when turned off...

Exactly. There are quite a few: internet radios, newsticker, integration with MusicIP/Moodlogic/iTunes etc. are all plugins which can be removed, if you don't need them, but come installed with the main distribution.


4) Testing new versions of Slimserver. Until I find it stable, it's better not installing a new version on the DS-106. Installing/uninstalling it on a PC is much easier.

Now that's a good reason: on my main system I'm always using rather old but stable releases (well, right now it's even the latest stable release 6.3.1), but on my laptop I've always got the latest code available. That way I don't risk my GF getting grumpy because music is interrupting or the server is crashing.

tommypeters
2006-08-08, 07:37
Thanks again. Well, since I need to by the NAS soon - before I will have time to test out which plugins I like ("need") - it will mostly be hoping the DS-106 will do what I want. A pity the DS-406 is too expensive... ;)

Is there an easy description somewhere how to remove parts of the original distribution and how to add optionals? Will an original Slimserver distribution, without anything removed or added, run well on a DS-106? Or do you need to remove a lot for there to be enough RAM?

mherger
2006-08-08, 08:43
Slimserver will run without any change. Just install SSODS ("SlimServer on Diskstation"):

http://oinkzwurgl.org/software/ssods/

Another thread that might be of interest to you:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24626

flipflip
2006-08-08, 08:58
A unmodified "tarball" (e.g. SlimServer_v6.3.1.tar.gz) downloaded from slimdevices.com will work on the DS. There is no need to remove or change anything.

On a DS-106 (not 106e!) it will run just perfectly. Scanning will take some time (maybe an hour per 5000 mp3s) and occasionally there might be a short delay in "responsiveness" (right word?). You'll get used to that :-)

The easiest way to add own plugins is to add them to the tarball (using izArc or another archive utility) and then install the tarball to the DS. It is also possible to access the SlimServer files from a pc (\\xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx\SlimServer, the README.txt covers that) and add/remove/modify something.

I have a few additional plugins installed and they all work: MusicInfoSCR, Song Scanner, TrackStat, DynamicPlaylist, LazySearch, RadioPlaylist, 2nd Alarm.

As long as the plugin does not relay on external binaries unavailable on the DS it should work. For example, AlienBBC does not work because it needs mplayer. Probably the DS hasn't got enough power to do the transcoding by mplayer. This is untested as far as I know. It _might_ work.

By the way, I would argue that it is rather easy to install a new tarball on the DS (using SSODS' built-in routines to do so). I find it more easy than updating a slimserver installation on windows. At least it takes less time.. :-)

It is also easy to just test another version. SSODS does not contain the slimserver programme but it provides an environment (perl etc.) to run it. So, SSODS has to be installed once and then you can simply install and re-install slimserver tarballs (i.e. the programme itself). There are routines to backup and restore the preferences and the database. It's a matter of a minute or two to revert to the last known-working configuration without the need to rescan or reset the preferences.

Regards,
flip

firestorm
2006-08-08, 11:15
On a DS-106 (not 106e!) it will run just perfectly. Scanning will take some time (maybe an hour per 5000 mp3s) and occasionally there might be a short delay in "responsiveness" (right word?). You'll get used to that :-)
Regards,
flip

I'm deciding between a ds106, cs406e,cs406 and mini-itx running slimcd, but I'll have to work out how to samba on it.

flipflip, whats the problem with the ds106e?
Will it be the same with the cs406e amd 406 ?

I plan to have slimcd + fileserver functions running as a minimum. With a max of 3 concurrent clients.

Do you think the cs406e will cut it ? I've found a Hungarian firm that can supply a 406e for 512 euro. I have a set of 250Gb sata drives already, so it should be quite nice once its set up.

Thanks

tommypeters
2006-08-08, 11:16
OK, thanks. That sounds good. Then it's just to hope that Synology - or someone else out of experience - can say that the DS-106 works well with a large internal and a large eSATA external as well as one or two large USB2 disks. After having looked at other NAS products (for non-Slimserver applications) I'm surprised how many limitations there are and how much does NOT work...

tommypeters
2006-08-08, 11:17
whats the problem with the ds106e?
For only slightly lower price than the DS-106, it has only half the RAM.

firestorm
2006-08-08, 12:50
can you suggest a retailer in europe/uk for the synology series ? All the uk ones are hideously expensive !

tommypeters
2006-08-16, 22:27
It seems my answer on that question got removed... Anyway, I will get my DS-106 today and will put a Western Digital WD5000KS in it. And then SSODS.

tommypeters
2006-08-18, 06:23
I wonder if someone with a DiskStation can answer:

The four screws to mount the supplied HDD bracket to the motherboard were all "mangled" - at the last 4mm or so they had a piece missing. First I thought this could only be a manufacturing error (or sabotage) but later I started to think it might be intentional. The screws would be very hard to screw in, but even less likely to unscrew by themselves. The problem is that one or two of them doesn't go all the way in, so the HDD will not be securely seated but can vibrate...

Was it so for you as well?
Do anyone know the exact specs for the screws, I checked my (hundreds) of "computer screws" at home and nothing was close....?

flipflip
2006-08-18, 07:30
I am not sure if I got you right. And I probably cannot express this accurately in English.

Answers:
- The missing piece is intentionally.
- You have to apply a certain force to screw them in.

Explanation:
The screws I had are such to screw into plastics. You don't screw them into a thread. They cut the thread themselves. The "piece missing" would be the "cutting edge" and a space where the cut-out meterial can go. The first time you screw them in needs more force than the second time. You have to be careful the second time to not cut a new thread. The more times you unscrue and screw it again, the less it will hold. Usually one does this only once. If you screw them in too much, the thread will be destroyed and the screw won't hold at all. Loctite (or glue) will help in that case (apply to the screw and/or the hole and wait until the glue hardened). Using a drop of Loctite, glue or also nail varnish (any colour ;-) on the screw head and the bracket to secure the screw is always a good idea.

I installed several Diskstations and never had problems screwing the screws in completely. Try a bit harder :-)

The right way to screw something to plastics would be to use metal "thread nuts" (maybe wrong word, "Gewindehülse" or "Gewindebuchse" in German) and a "normal" screw. But that increses the costs of course.

You often find these screws in plastic casings (radios, tv sets, etc.). Also R/C cars use lots of these screws and usually come with some sort of screw locking glue.

flipflip

tommypeters
2006-08-18, 09:26
You got me right, and I have no problem understand your English :)

With two of the screws it works like it should, and they look like they are intented to work like you describe - with a quarter of the "pie" cross-section cut away. But the other two have more metal "chopped away" and are flatter, something must have gone wrong when manufacturing those two.

I will try to carefully use more force, otherwise I will have to wait for replacement screws or a replacement DS-106. But I don't want to wait any longer...

With "threads" I meant the screw-threads, not threads inside a screw nut.

That "Quick Installation Guide" is really bad, there's not much right in it and they fail to alert of these screws - otherwise the User Guide and the software is of good quality. The "QIG" starts with:

0) 'Prepare a 3 1/2" SATA HDD'
Prepare for what? Prepare how? Prepare with what? I guessed it was to take it out of the plastic bag.

1) 'Assemble the SATA HDD to the bracket'
No problem with that, they also show which of the two holes to use (I guess the other mounting holes is for a non-standard HDD, but they don't mention anything about it)

2) 'Stick 1 aluminium foil on the HDD and make sure it touches the S2 gold finger on the motherboard'
Clear as mud. Not until the next instruction/picture will you open the case so you even see S2 and can calculate where to put the foil.

3) 'Open the case by sliding open the cover'
Now, having opened the cover, you can actually se "S2" on the motherboard. Unfortunately S1, S3, S4 and S5 has one of these "Gold Fingers" - but S2 not... An email to Synology reveal that this is an error in the manual, the S2 should not have any gold finger and you have no use for the foil.

4) 'Be careful when you opened the cover'
Nice to tell me now - why not when you told me to open it? The USB cable should be kept connected to the mainboard.
This is terrible design. Why have ONE connection on a removable lid, with a longish cable that's in the way? If you want the USB contact at exactly that spot, make that part of the case attached to the main part and have a cut-out in the lid. Saves you a cable and the customer some problems.

5) 'Put the SATA HDD with bracket into DS-106'
This is described as it should (!)

6) 'Use the four 10mm screws...'
Here would be a good place to indicate that the screws are intentionally "custom damaged" and for what purpose (I think it's not JUST penny-saving, but also for the screws not to unscrew. Vibrations is less of a problem for a screw screwed into plastic).
It would also be a good idea to show a picture of the screws - AND NOT A PICTURE OF AN ORDINARY, UN-CUSTOMIZED METAL SCREW!

7) 'Place the USB cable behind the hook as indicated'
This comes from the bad idea of placing the USB connector in the removable lid. If you place the hook "as indicated" you can't really close the lid. The cable is a tad short when you open the lid - if you're not careful - and too long when the lid is closed...

flipflip
2006-08-18, 09:53
Right, the installation guide sucks..

Maybe you can use the "good" screws to cut the thread and then use some other screw of similar size from your collection of "computer screws"..

It's possible that something went wrong when they packed your DS.

One DS I installed hadn't these bloody aluminim foils. Anyway, I reckon there is already a reasonable ground connection to the hdd via the screw and the bracket (and the cable as well).

flip

tommypeters
2006-08-18, 13:42
I had to work a bit on those two mangled screws but now I can "create" the holes with the other screws and then fit these two. Maybe they don't hold the HDD perfectly well, since they have a larger part taken away from them - but hopefully enough for now.

After the crappy Installation guide it was nice to see the decent User Guide (though I haven't really read it - haven't had the need yet), easily installed software, easily updated firmware - and easily installed SSODS (thanks!) :) and SlimServer.

kgiil
2006-11-07, 13:00
Tommypeters, I was wondering if you could post your experience with the combination DS106 and WD5000KS. I have tried two such kits, from different computers and with different routers, and the results are the same :

Very slow, 2min30sek to copy one 1GB file. 400Mb files, approx. 3 minutes. A 15GB backup file takes 50min to upload.

The copy often fails during copy winth windows error stating that the file resource no longer exists.

I have also tried being directly connected with a lan cable between computer and DS106. The results are slightly better, but I believe the results should be far better, as compared to the official performance charts from Synology and also the review on www.tomsnetworking.com.

I am wondering if the DS indeed has problems with this disk, since this happens on two different sets. I have no other sata disks to try, so I'm hoping for your response. I am also considering trying the new 4.0 beta firmware ( I have the latest stable release installed.)

Any thoughts ?

flipflip
2006-11-07, 15:23
Very slow, 2min30sek to copy one 1GB file. 400Mb files, approx. 3 minutes. A 15GB backup file takes 50min to upload.


That would be 2^20 / 150 = 6990 kb/s = 6.8 MB/s. And 15*2^20 / 50 / 60 = 5243 kb/s = 5.1 MB/s. Not too bad I would say.. It's about what I see here (100BaseT switched network). What is your network like?



The copy often fails during copy winth windows error stating that the file resource no longer exists.


This never happened here. And I copied dozens of GB of music and other data onto the DS. Looks like a network issue to me.



I believe the results should be far better, as compared to the official performance charts from Synology and also the review on www.tomsnetworking.com.


Well, I don't know if we can compare Tom's (iozone's) results with our measurements. There may be other slow-down factors in your setup like processes running on you PC and the DS (Slimserver?), network congestion (collisions) etc. But I think your measurements are okay (on a 100mbit network).



I am wondering if the DS indeed has problems with this disk, since this happens on two different sets. I have no other sata disks to try, so I'm hoping for your response. I am also considering trying the new 4.0 beta firmware ( I have the latest stable release installed.)


What precisely do you mean by "two different sets"?

I'd not install the beta version. I don't think that it would change the speed of copying files. It might resolve certain compatibility issues with a harddisk and it probably adds a few enhancements and fixes some bugs, but as your DS seems to run okay so far, I don't think there is a benefit in your case. On the other hand I didn't hear any complaints about the betas so far.

Is your HDD on syno's compatible drives list?

flip

tommypeters
2006-11-08, 01:03
The HDD is on their compatibility list. That's the reason I bought it, together with it being low-heat, low-noise and low-price.

I haven't done any measurements but the combination seems to work as expected, no "resource no longer exists" problem I can remember.

kgiil
2006-11-08, 02:38
Thanks flipflip,

What I meant by "two sets" is that I have 2xDS 106 and 2xWD5000KS. These two has been set up on two differnet locations with different computers and different routers.

After reading fliflip's post, I see that I cannot expect better speed than I have. As tommypeters stated, the HDD is on their compatibility list.

Regarding the "resource no longer available", this disappeared when I connected through a 100BaseT switched network (Ordinarily I use a 11g wireless through a 3com Officeconnect Gateway (3CRWE554G72)).

This wireless connection has never failed before, so I assumed that the problem was the DS, especially since I had the same problem with the second DS, from a different computer and a Netopia Wireless Router.

Anyway, thanks for the answers, I guess I have to have a look at new wireless accesspoints. If any of you want to recommend a good one for use for copying large files and streaming, please do.

tommypeters
2006-11-08, 04:52
If you are copying large files over wireless it may be that the DS-106 doesn't send enough "I'm still alive" packets during the transfer and you get a timeout at the host machine. That could give you a "Resource Not Available". I have only copied large (3GB) files over CAT5e and had no problems, but maybe something is different when running over a wireless network.

flipflip
2006-11-08, 05:13
Yes, that is possible. I have not seen any 100% reliable wireless network so far. Browsing the web, downloading some mails and streaming mp3s may work without problems. But copying large chunks over wireless can indeed be something different. Maybe it does depend on the equipment used or rather the quality of connection. I don't know exactly.. and as said I never had this problems on any wired network (and I have seen/used quite a few :-).

Maybe it works better using FTP?

flip

KBP
2006-11-08, 05:32
I've copied 70 gb's to my DS-106 wireless in one go, without problems. It was from my USB-1 external disc, and it took about 4 hours.

Nicola Fankhauser
2006-11-08, 13:20
I have the same problem with my NSLU2 boxes: when connected wirelessly big files quite often are not transferred correctly over Samba - over ethernet there is no problem at all. FTP, HTTP etc. don't seem to suffer from the same effect however.

FYI, I have a linksys WRT54GS and a WAP54G, plus one HP centrino laptop.

regards
nicola