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View Full Version : 6.3.0 doesn't run on Debian, with a fix:



Malor
2006-07-16, 00:48
You know, this is good software, and I appreciate its freedom (in all senses) very much. But, geeze, what's with the lack of even the most rudimentary testing in the major releases?

In 6.3.0, the server just flat will not run as shipped. Why? Because it doesn't correctly include its own libraries in the search path. It builds them fine, but then doesn't look in the right place to find them. Doesn't anyone have a Debian VMWare image for a quick install test, at the very least? Sheesh!

The fix is quite simple: cd to the 'lib' directory of your slimserver, and make a symbolic link of the parent Slim directory into lib. In my case, that's:
cd /usr/local/slimserver/lib
ln -s ../Slim Slim

Runs fine from there. This is a bandaid fix, and you should remove the symlink before installing the next release, if you install into the same directory. (if you install into a new directory each time, which I recommend, you can safely leave it.)

If you guys don't feel like you have egg on your faces for this one, you should. If you need another tester, I'd be happy to run things through a basic install/test run on Debian just before you declare a version 'stable'. I'd do it anyway, so doing it a few days sooner won't hurt me any and might help everyone else.

kdf
2006-07-16, 01:20
much more pointed if this weren't old news, mate.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25250

you'll find that there is a more sustainable fix in nightly builds if
you wish to test here:
http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/latest/6.3.0/

If you find anything new, please file a bug report at:
http://bugs.slimdevices.com
-kdf

Malor
2006-07-16, 01:41
It amazes and distresses me that this is a known problem, has been for at least five days, and yet the default download for new customers remains unchanged. It's obviously fixed, so why on EARTH is the old broken one still up?

radish
2006-07-16, 09:39
It amazes and distresses me that this is a known problem, has been for at least five days, and yet the default download for new customers remains unchanged. It's obviously fixed, so why on EARTH is the old broken one still up?
Because that's not how software release cycles work. It is against every best practise out there to make one "tiny, inconsequential fix" to a release version and push it out bypassing the proper testing procedure, because the likleyhood that your tiny fix broke something else is very high. All released versions of all software packages from all manufacturers contain known bugs. Those known bugs are often fixed internally for some time before release. It's how these things work.

Malor
2006-07-17, 12:12
You guys have a messed-up idea of release cycles. If you blow your testing and you have a critical bug, and I'd call NOT WORKING AS DISTRIBUTED a critical bug -- then you get the fixed version out instantly, or you pull the old one.

The expectation created by the website is that the version released is stable. For users, that means "you can run this code and it will work." Stable in the sense of 'we aren't changing this code anymore, but it doesn't actually work' is GARBAGE.

What you say on the website is that the nightly builds are not trustworthy, and the release builds are okay to run. In actual fact, this EXACTLY BACKWARD from the reality, and you should update your website.

Incredibly sloppy.

kdf
2006-07-17, 12:32
You guys ... you should update your website.


I fail to see how radish or myself upgrading our sites could help in any way. However if you feel so strongly, we could endeavour to do so. Maybe you don't realise who you are talking to?

darn sloppy.

maybe what you really want is to contact support@slimdevices.com, instead of spitting on other users?

-k

Ben Sandee
2006-07-17, 13:27
On 7/17/06, kdf <kdf.2b3u4b1153164901 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
>
> Malor Wrote:
> > You guys ... you should update your website.
> >
>
> I fail to see how radish or myself upgrading our sites could help in
> any way. However if you feel so strongly, we could endeavour to do so.
> Maybe you don't realise who you are talking to?
>
> darn sloppy.
>
> maybe what you really want is to contact support (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com,
> instead of spitting on other users?


Aren't you aware that this forum's purpose has changed to that of venting?
By daring to respond you have now opened yourself up as a target -- as have
I! Dang!

Ben

Malor
2006-07-18, 03:10
I was responding to the 'every best practice' line. His implication is that it's poor form to release something that's completely broken and then fix it quickly. BEST practice is to release software that works. Barring that, you pull the software that doesn't work until you can fix it. You just DON'T keep distributing the broken one, when the bug is that severe. ("not working at all" is pretty severe.) Calling 6.3.0 'stable' is ridiculous.

Stable, in the context of a software project, means both that it's not changing AND that it works, not just that it's not changing.

Since Slimserver is advertised as a community project, and radish is telling me about best software practices, it's pretty reasonable to include him/her in the collective 'you' of the Slimserver developers. If that was an error, then please consider the 'you' as pointed at someone else.

You guys are feeling vented at _for a reason_. And it's not that the users are suddenly sucking. They are annoyed because this project is not being managed well. The code is (overall)fine, the features are fine, the hardware is good. The software release process, on the other hand, is completely broken, and in dire need of an overhaul.

Again, I would be more than happy to help test -rc versions.

Marc Sherman
2006-07-18, 05:18
Malor wrote:
> I was responding to the 'every best practice' line. His implication is
> that it's poor form to release something that's completely broken and
> then fix it quickly. BEST practice is to release software that works.
> Barring that, you pull the software that doesn't work until you can fix
> it. You just DON'T keep distributing the broken one, when the bug is
> that severe. ("not working at all" is pretty severe.) Calling 6.3.0
> 'stable' is -ridiculous-.

Please, for the love of god, just return your squeezebox for a full
refund and stop wasting our time. You are still within your 30 day
return period, right?

Oh, you're not? Then you must have been happy with a previous rev of the
software. Just uninstall the upgrade you received for free, we'll give
you a full refund of the money you paid for it (with a 50% apology bonus
for wasting your time, in fact!) and revert to the old version that you
were happy with.

> Again, I would be more than happy to help test -rc versions.

Then why the hell haven't you been? I don't see your name anywhere in
bugzilla. The 6.3.0 release was clearly pre-announced in the dev list*,
you could have tested then and filed your oh-so-important show-stopper
bug. Were you waiting for a personal invitation?

* http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24936

- Marc

Malor
2006-07-18, 10:16
Ok, well, you just lost a tester. If you'd said "you can test this way", then I would have been happy to sign up and do so. How am I magically supposed to know where you do your dev work? Many/most teams do it via mailing list. In no obvious place is the Developer forum indicated as The Place To Go.

I was trying to volunteer, and point out that leaving up software that doesn't include its own libraries in its search path, and then STILL, a week later, having the unpatched version up as the claimed 'stable release', is a sign of a completely broken QA process.

Your attitude shows me WHY the release process is broken. Instead of being happy for the extra help, you piss all over people telling you what's wrong and offering to help fix it. So now you have one less body than you would have.

snarlydwarf
2006-07-18, 10:23
Many/most teams do it via mailing list. In no obvious place is the Developer forum indicated as The Place To Go.

The Dev forum, like the other forums here... are available as a mailing list or a web page: your choice. If you want a mailing list, see http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=13562

kdf
2006-07-18, 10:40
Quoting Malor <Malor.2b5ijc1153243202 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:

> Your attitude shows me WHY the release process is broken. Instead of
> being happy for the extra help, you piss all over people telling you
> what's wrong and offering to help fix it. So now you have one less
> body than you would have.

I believe he was pissing all over someone who he feels is shooting
their mouth off without making themselves aware of the current state
of play, or to whom they should speak. Come in kicking and/or
screaming, you con't exactly claim the high road when people bite back.

All the information you seek is available in many forms. I recommend
taking a look, spend some time doing the homework. Feel free to join
in, or not. If, after taking a look, you have some suggestions aside
from "completely broken", I'm sure everyone will be happy to hear them.

Your specific issue with 6.3.0 has already being addressed. A number
of other fixes and issues have already been properly filed and
discussed in bugzilla, allowing users to test several nightly builds
to make sure the planned fixes do work in as many real world setups as
possible. 6.3.1 was tagged almost 24 hours ago,. so release should
come presently. There are some known issues, but some issues just have
to get put back for another release, either because of priority, the
scope of the work required or both.

best wishes,
-k