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pfarrell
2006-07-12, 18:31
LHawes wrote:
> All I can say is WOW. Just got back to my computer and discovered this
> thread. I had no idea the Squeeze Box folks could be so sensitive to a
> rather simple request and observation about a product the OP obviously
> has a lot of respect for.

Since I replied to Sinatra's thread, I can be one of the first
to correct your misconception. It is not SlimDevices employees
that are reacting. Most of the objection to the tone and attitude
has been written by users and customers, who have bought one
or more SqueezeBoxes.

Perhaps part of the confusion is that the SlimServer is
an open source project. Much of the development in
open source projects is done by volunteers.


> I'm just curious as to what happened here. I didn't perceive
> any of the attacks or mean spirited accusations from the OP.
> Is it just because I agree with him? Or that I don't have
> anything personally at stake?
>
> Do suggestions to improve the product have to be presented in a form
> that is acceptable to the readers and members from now on?
> What is that form?

First, make sure that you understand who is on the forum (or mailing
list) and what the target is. There is a separate developers list
for development. There is an open Bugzilla that is the official
place to put feature requests.

Second, remember that many of the developers are volunteers.
They do it because they want to. Even the serious folks, like KDF,
who get freebees from Slim, don't get more than a couple of pennies
per hour that they put in.

Third, it is better to discuss an idea. Word it such as
"I was thinking that a Foobaz feature would be really great,
what do the rest of you think" will make it clear that
you are soliciting comments about the idea. Once there is
a groundswell of support behind an idea, it is much more
likely to find someone willing to write the code.

Fourth, remember that patches are always welcome.

--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

LHawes
2006-07-12, 18:53
What I meant by the Squeeze Box folks was everyone on the forums and mailing lists and developers and etc. I guess this illustrates my point. These are forums and you cannot discern intent from a forum post.

And sometimes they will be misinterpretted, it's the nature of the beast. No disrespect intended to anyone invloved with Slim Devices, in fact just the opposite, which is what I find so confusing.

And hey I have no dog in this hunt. I just had higher, more tolerant expectations from the forum members/community which is something I have, as of now, adjusted.

I just won't be surprised when posters are attacked when their suggestion are not received in the spirit they are given because of some unknowable connection to this great piece of hard/software.

Gotta go listen to my new AT 1502 amplifier and a few newly ripped CD's.

Best to all

Larry

mherger
2006-07-12, 23:45
> And hey I have no dog in this hunt. I just had higher, more tolerant
> expectations from the forum members/community which is something I
> have, as of now, adjusted.

Don't worry, folks here usually are nice and relaxed. But I think it's the
summer's heat which rises the level a bit.

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------
Help translate SlimServer by using the
SlimString Translation Helper (http://www.herger.net/slim/)

CardinalFang
2006-07-13, 00:44
Don't worry, folks here usually are nice and relaxed. But I think it's the
summer's heat which rises the level a bit.


I hope that's the case - I just came across the original thread and if I had been the original poster, I would have got a really bad impression of Slim - and I would most likely have told friends to steer clear of the product.

Yes, those who have invested many hours of work into the product deserve respect, but so does the customer. As someone who has been in software product development for many, many years, the poster's comments were very mild compared to some I've seen. And at the end of the day, he's the guy who handed over his money for the product and is allowed to say whatever he wants. We can choose to ignore him, or we could listen and filter out anything we take exception to so that we can see the nub of the argument.

I happen to agree with the poster to a large degree. I wouldn't recommend Slim to a computer novice unless they had a iPod and iTunes up and running already. Conceptually it's too difficult for non-technical people if you have to start explaining which apps you need, when to use them, what settings etc...

Paul

Kyle
2006-07-13, 06:32
I wouldn't recommend Slim to a computer novice unless they had a iPod and iTunes up and running already. Conceptually it's too difficult for non-technical people if you have to start explaining which apps you need, when to use them, what settings etc...

Paul

I fully agree on this point. I'm not exactly a tech novice, but I spent many hours getting SB and SS configured to my system. It is definitely not "plug and play," and I don't know of a single friend that I could recommend it to and expect them to set it up without assistance. Of course, I'm 52, so that might have something to do with it.

radish
2006-07-13, 07:27
Conceptually it's too difficult for non-technical people if you have to start explaining which apps you need, when to use them, what settings etc...

People keep saying things like this, and seem to be assuming it's a bad thing. Maybe this isn't a product for non-technical people. Maybe Slim are interested in playing the long tail, taking a niche market rather than pandering to the masses. It seems to have done them pretty well so far.

I can say that I, as a technical person, would be much LESS interested in a solution which tried do everything for me and didn't allow me to tailor it to my preferences. You can say that a super-squeezebox solution would allow the best of both worlds but my experience tells me that's really not possible - to add the kind of totally automatic functionality your average Best Buy customer likes you have to limit options and flexibility. Personally, I'm happy to see everyone else going that way and Slim staying true to their roots.

stinkingpig
2006-07-13, 07:41
On 7/13/06, radish <radish.2aw1bz1152801001 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
wrote:
>
>
> CardinalFang Wrote:
> > Conceptually it's too difficult for non-technical people if you have to
> > start explaining which apps you need, when to use them, what settings
> > etc...
> >
> People keep saying things like this, and seem to be assuming it's a bad
> thing. Maybe this isn't a product for non-technical people. Maybe Slim
> are interested in playing the long tail, taking a niche market rather
> than pandering to the masses. It seems to have done them pretty well so
> far.
>
> I can say that I, as a technical person, would be much LESS interested
> in a solution which tried do everything for me and didn't allow me to
> tailor it to my preferences. You can say that a super-squeezebox
> solution would allow the best of both worlds but my experience tells me
> that's really not possible - to add the kind of totally automatic
> functionality your average Best Buy customer likes you have to limit
> options and flexibility. Personally, I'm happy to see everyone else
> going that way and Slim staying true to their roots.
>
>
>
hear, hear. There is a prerequisite of knowledge for this application, as
there is for all other applications. Does Microsoft Word teach you how to
write? Does a GPS tell you that you're going too fast and on the sidewalk to
boot? Does iTunes force you to turn on your computer before you can use it?
WAAAH!!! I want iTunes to sense that I'm walking up to the computer and turn
it on for me!! Oh but wait, now it's wasting power on false positives! Can't
someone solve this? Won't someone think of the children?

I'm certainly proud to talk about my Squeezeboxes, and people always ask
about them when they come over, but I'm not going to try and convince
anyone. If my visitor doesn't see it as a must-have item, good for them!
Maybe they're quite happy with an iPod dock or an Airport Express, or even a
shelf full of CDs and a CD player.
--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional

CardinalFang
2006-07-13, 10:37
hear, hear. There is a prerequisite of knowledge for this application, as
there is for all other applications. Does Microsoft Word teach you how to
write? Does a GPS tell you that you're going too fast and on the sidewalk to
boot? Does iTunes force you to turn on your computer before you can use it?
WAAAH!!! I want iTunes to sense that I'm walking up to the computer and turn
it on for me!! Oh but wait, now it's wasting power on false positives! Can't
someone solve this? Won't someone think of the children?


That may be true, but it isn't marketed on the Slim pages as a enthusiast product that needs a specialist to install it. Quote from the home page: "Squeezebox is the easiest way to stream digital music and Internet radio on your stereo". No mention of "you'll need to find your own ripping program and set it up properly, Oh and you may need some help with WiFi setup."

If it really is the case that Slim don't want a larger consumer market, then they wasted their money on that product redesign, because if that isn't a definite clue to where their market ambitions are, I don't know what is.

Paul

Richie
2006-07-13, 11:02
> enthusiast product that needs a specialist to install it. Quote from
> the home page: "Squeezebox is the easiest way to stream digital music
> and Internet radio on your stereo". No mention of "you'll need to find

Just because it is the easiest way doesn't mean it's going to be easy.
I sure there are 'easiest' routes to climb mountains but they may well
not be easy to climb.

Richard

MrSinatra
2006-07-13, 11:38
That may be true, but it isn't marketed on the Slim pages as a enthusiast product that needs a specialist to install it. Quote from the home page: "Squeezebox is the easiest way to stream digital music and Internet radio on your stereo". No mention of "you'll need to find your own ripping program and set it up properly, Oh and you may need some help with WiFi setup."

If it really is the case that Slim don't want a larger consumer market, then they wasted their money on that product redesign, because if that isn't a definite clue to where their market ambitions are, I don't know what is.

Paul

shame on you fang for pointing out inconvenient facts like that...

and as to the last poster, i can assure you that it is in fact not the easiest, and not just b/c it isn't easy.