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MrSinatra
2006-07-09, 13:28
hi,

i was trying to figure this out myself, but i'm getting nowhere. i will start by saying it is entirely possible, and perhaps even likely, that i am doing something wrong and dumb. but i'm stuck.

i don't want to rehash what was said in this thread:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25266

but it is kinda related.

anyway, i am having trouble getting SS 6.3 to use the file i want it to as the source for the thumbnails when i "browse artwork."

apparently, when you "Home -> Browse Artwork" SS grabs the 75x75 file "AlbumArtSmall.jpg" and then [the browser] scales it up to 100x100 (the default) or whatever you have it set to in SS, (in my case, 130).

this looks terrible obviously.

so, what i want to do is get it to use my larger files for the source image when it looks for the image. that file is called Folder.jpg

so, i went to Home -> Server Settings -> Interface

and found this option:


Artwork Thumbnail
For Browse By Artwork thumbnails, the server will search the same default image files as above, and in ID3 Tags. However, if you wish to use the variable filename feature, or specify your own filename, enter that here.

so i put " Folder.jpg " here. no dice. tried " folder.jpg " and " folder " and so on. no dice.

the jpgs still seem to be sourced from the 75x75 AlbumArtSmall.jpg 2k ones.

when i right click and do properties on them, i get around 2k, for all of them with one exception i've found so far. patsy clines 12 greatest hits does seem to be the Folder.jpg, as it looks better and is 10k in size. (yes, albumartsmall.jpg is there in the album folder for it as well) i was messing with that one [Folder.jpg] in windows picture viewer, so i wonder if thats why somehow? very, very strange.

that anomaly aside however, it simply isn't working. i even tried quitting and restarting SS and rescaning the library (happens automatically every overnight).

so, i looked at this extremely confusing option:


Artwork
Images of album artwork, when available, are displayed when viewing an album or song information. Artwork images are found in the ID3 tags for individual songs or can reside in the same folder as song files. By default, images named "cover.jpg", "albumartsmall.jpg", "folder.jpg", "album.jpg", or "thumb.jpg" are used. You can specify an additional file name to use for album art images. You can specify different file names for thumbnail or full size images. Prefix the option with % and you can follow it with any string made up of the same elements available for Title Formats (eq %ARTIST - ALBUM, will look for Artist - Album.jpg to fit the artist and album information found.

so, again, i tried Folder.jpg, folder.jpg, and just folder. i also tried all these choices with and without mirroring them in the other option [above] for thumbnails.

in short, i tried all the options i could think of. no dice.

can anyone suggest something for me to do to get this to work?

one last other thing i did notice...

i am in default skin and i ask my Q's from that skin, however, i switched to other skins, and the ones that put a thumbnail of the album by the music player DID in fact seem to be using the 10k image and having the browser successfully scale it down. again, very strange it works there, (assuming that prior it would have used albumartsmall), and yet NOT in "browse artwork."

in the next post, i want to parse that that option, to try to make sense of it.

JJZolx
2006-07-09, 14:01
can anyone suggest something for me to do to get this to work?
Do you _need_ those thumbnails for anything? Apparently you don't want SlimServer using them, so as I suggested in the other thread: Get rid of them or rename them to a filename that SlimServer isn't looking for.

My artwork setup is very simple. A 'cover.jpg' file of 200px width, sometimes larger, in every folder. Under Server Settings > Interface I have Artwork, Artwork Thumbnail, and Artwork Folder all *blank*. Keep it simple and it just works.

MrSinatra
2006-07-09, 14:02
Artwork
Images of album artwork, when available, are displayed when viewing an album or song information. Artwork images are found in the ID3 tags for individual songs or can reside in the same folder as song files.

so far, so good. this would also seem to indicate that when "Browsing Artwork" its the other option that controls that, not this one.


By default, images named "cover.jpg", "albumartsmall.jpg", "folder.jpg", "album.jpg", or "thumb.jpg" are used.

yes, those filenames, but not in that order. apparently the order for non-thumbnail images goes:



cover.jpg, cover.gif,
folder.jpg, folder.gif,
album.jpg, album.gif,
thumb.jpg, thumb.gif,
albumartsmall.jpg, albumartsmall.gif


according to the wiki.


You can specify an additional file name to use for album art images.

ok, but in my case i shouldn't need to, b/c Folder.jpg comes first.

it seems to me at this point that this option shouldn't have anything to do with browsing artwork.


You can specify different file names for thumbnail or full size images.

why is this line here now? shouldn't this line preface both options? [meaning, normal images or thumbnails] i'm confused why it shows up here now, is it meaningful to only this option?


Prefix the option with % and you can follow it with any string made up of the same elements available for Title Formats

i have absolutely no idea what this means. i know its referencing title tags in mp3s, but i am toally lost how that relates to artwork, or what it would accomplish.


(eq %ARTIST - ALBUM, will look for Artist - Album.jpg to fit the artist and album information found.

and this example doesn't help me...

why would i say " %artist - album " if i know my filename is "Artist - Album.jpg "

i just don't get any of this.

in any case, i assume at this point that this option should have nothing to do with what files are use when i browse artwork, yes?

kdf
2006-07-09, 14:12
> ok, but in my case i shouldn't need to, b/c Folder.jpg comes first.
>
if you read further down, the order is reversed for thumbnails,
optimised to catch the smaller images first (which I've also mentioned
recently)

> it seems to me at this point that this option shouldn't have anything
> to do with browsing artwork.
Artwork setting doesn't. Artwork thumbnail does. The reason this
isn't stated in the prefs text is that this isn't hardwired anywhere.
Any skin may request the cover for an artwork browse if the author
wants.

>
> why would i say " %artist - album " if i know my filename is "Artist -
> Album.jpg "
>
That example is based on the same system as the title format. So you
can name your images Green Day - American Idiot.jpg if you want.

As a side note, any changes to the artwork settings require a wipe and
rescan. You mentioned an automatic rescan nightly, but you don't
mention if that is a wipe or just a search for new. it requires a wipe
because the server needs a complete list of album titles for matching
to artwork. 6.5 is doing away with this, taking the hit in page
loading time in order to gain access to artwork on the fly.

-kdf

MrSinatra
2006-07-09, 14:16
Do you _need_ those thumbnails for anything? Apparently you don't want SlimServer using them, so as I suggested in the other thread: Get rid of them or rename them to a filename that SlimServer isn't looking for.

do i need them?

probably not, but i don't want to have to worry about removing them / renaming them everytime i rip a CD. i also don't want to find out at a later date it would have been nice to have them for x y or z. WMP puts them there, and i don't think its too much to ask for SD-SS to get this issue straightened out, if in fact, the reason its not working is something on their end.

they are offering the option as i think they rightly should, i'm just trying to get it to work. i think your option is a bit of a kludge, rather than a true solution, (which isn't to say i don't appreciate the suggestion and reply).

besides, i have over 1500 albums in here. i don't want to deal with it, even if i knew how to batch it. and what if i don't have a " Folder.jpg " but i do have a " AlbumArtSmall " ??

it may be the case that scenario doesn't exist, but i don't want to go thru 1500 albums to verify that.


My artwork setup is very simple. A 'cover.jpg' file of 200px width, sometimes larger, in every folder. Under Server Settings > Interface I have Artwork, Artwork Thumbnail, and Artwork Folder all *blank*. Keep it simple and it just works.

sure.

but i'm sure you wouldn't suggest that if there is an actual problem, it shouldn't be looked at or fixed, right?

i mean, if there is an actual problem, (and the problem may be me, or something on my end, not SD-SS) but regardless, IF there is an actual problem, especially if its on their end, you would agree it should be looked at, identified, and resolved, don't you?

i basically don't feel that on this issue, i should have to modify my normal use behavior to act as a workaround to solve the issue. that shouldn't be the approach or standard. if there's a problem on their end, they should solve it, or if i'm doing something wrong, i'd appreciate the help to solve what i'm doing wrong.

i'm not saying there's anything wrong with your method, i'm just saying there's nothing wrong with me trying to get this work as it is intended to do. thx, -mdw

MrSinatra
2006-07-09, 15:11
> ok, but in my case i shouldn't need to, b/c Folder.jpg comes first.
>
if you read further down, the order is reversed for thumbnails,
optimised to catch the smaller images first (which I've also mentioned recently)

yeah, i realize that. but i am parsing the artwork explanation here, trying to make sense of it specifically, not the thumbnail one. you're quoting me out of context. there is an explantion under "Artwork" in SS i am parsing and it lists what it looks for, for that option, but it does so out of the proper order according to wiki; so i was just clarifying the right order, and saying i should be ok given that.


> it seems to me at this point that this option shouldn't have anything to do with browsing artwork.
Artwork setting doesn't. Artwork thumbnail does. The reason this isn't stated in the prefs text is that this isn't hardwired anywhere. Any skin may request the cover for an artwork browse if the author wants.

ok, thats good to know. i do think it could be stated somewhere as being that way by default, unless a skins author changes it, jmho.


> why would i say " %artist - album " if i know my filename is "Artist - Album.jpg "
That example is based on the same system as the title format. So you can name your images Green Day - American Idiot.jpg if you want.

i still don't understand this at all, i think i'm so far behind understanding this option that its probably too frustrating for someone to try to explain it to me. (not all users can be bright i guess ; -)


As a side note,

A SIDE NOTE??? i'd say this is perhaps the QUINTESSENTIAL piece of missing information that is NO WHERE mentioned by either the options OR in the wiki, unless i somehow stupidly missed it.

i mean come on, that should ABSOLUTELY be clearly stated as a necessary step as part of the explanation for those options on the interface page. how else is someone supposed to know? again, i'm dumb as rocks, but i don't think thats obvious at all.


any changes to the artwork settings require a wipe and rescan. You mentioned an automatic rescan nightly, but you don't mention if that is a wipe or just a search for new. it requires a wipe because the server needs a complete list of album titles for matching to artwork. 6.5 is doing away with this, taking the hit in page loading time in order to gain access to artwork on the fly.

ok, all good to know, but i'll just clarify the rescan thing, (and i have it "wiping and rescanning" my library now btw)

under Home -> Server Settings -> Plugins

there is an option to rescan the music library.

it says this:


Rescan Music Library
You can choose to allow a scheduled rescan of your music library every 24 hours. Set the time, and set the Rescan Timer to ON to use this feature.

all i can say to this is "off" or "on" and when [time].

it apparently doesn't give me the option to say what kind of scan...

manual scans are located on the inital server settings page.


Rescan Music Library
Click Rescan to have SlimServer scan through your music library and add new music or update songs that have changed.

there are 3 choices here:

1. look for new and changed music
2. clear library and rescan everything
3. only rescan playlists

regardless of whicher one you do last, when you leave the page and come back, it defaults to #1, the first choice.

so, my guess is that the automatic nightly rescan does whatever it does with no regard to this option, OR it simply refers to the #1 option, and i can't have it do anything else.

this means i would very much like to have the ability to set exactly what kind of scan i would like the automatic one to do.

(also, i'm assuming when you said "wipe" thats = to "clear")

thx again for your help. -mdw

JJZolx
2006-07-09, 15:57
so i was just clarifying the right order, and saying i should be ok given that.
The wiki ordering looks odd. The thumbnail filename order shown there isn't exactly the reverse of the cover art filename ordering, as it says.

But in any case 'albumartsmall.jpg' comes before 'folder.jpg' so I don't see why you should be "ok". Since you have 'albumartsmall.jpg' files, SlimServer will see them and store them as the thumbnails.


A SIDE NOTE??? i'd say this is perhaps the QUINTESSENTIAL piece of missing information that is NO WHERE mentioned by either the options OR in the wiki, unless i somehow stupidly missed it.

i mean come on, that should ABSOLUTELY be clearly stated as a necessary step as part of the explanation for those options on the interface page. how else is someone supposed to know? again, i'm dumb as rocks, but i don't think thats obvious at all.
Yes, it really should be stated in the server settings. But I think very few people use any of these settings. Or when they do, it's a one-time set-it-and-forget-it type thing. At one time I was using the pattern '%album%.jpg' for artwork, but this was broken for a number of the 5.x and early 6.x releases. Anyone who was using this type of file naming convention got wise and just went to cover.jpg or folder.jpg, which always works.

I'll bet an exceedingly small percentage of users even use thumbnails other that those generated from the full sized artwork images.


ok, all good to know, but i'll just clarify the rescan thing, (and i have it "wiping and rescanning" my library now btw)

under Home -> Server Settings -> Plugins

there is an option to rescan the music library.

it says this:

all i can say to this is "off" or "on" and when [time].

it apparently doesn't give me the option to say what kind of scan...
No, the rescan plugin has never been able to do a wipe (clear) and rescan. I'd always wished it would allow that, as the non-clearing scan has always been lacking and unless you're waiting around for it to finish you may as well do a full clear & rescan.

MrSinatra
2006-07-09, 16:26
first, let me state the "CLEAR and rescan" worked, it now does what i want.

second, i figured out (or so i think) that patsy cline worked prior b/c i had moved it around. so it looked like a new entry on the overnight scan. just a fyi.

anyway:


The wiki ordering looks odd. The thumbnail filename order shown there isn't exactly the reverse of the cover art filename ordering, as it says.

But in any case 'albumartsmall.jpg' comes before 'folder.jpg' so I don't see why you should be "ok". Since you have 'albumartsmall.jpg' files, SlimServer will see them and store them as the thumbnails.

i think you lost track...

if you look at it again, you'll see in the post ( #3 ) i was parsing the explanation for "Artwork"'s explanation, not the Artwork thumbnail explanation.

that being the case, for "Artwork" as opposed to "Artwork thumbnails" i should be ok b/c i want it to use Folder.jpg first for that option as well. (and i simply have left it blank, as opposed to naming it)

it is interesting to note, as you did, that the order for artwork thumbnails is NOT an exact reverse. and as i now know, i did have to name a filename for that, and it is in no way related to "Artwork"


Yes, it really should be stated in the server settings. But I think very few people use any of these settings.

well, thats hardly a reason not to, is it?


Or when they do, it's a one-time set-it-and-forget-it type thing. At one time I was using the pattern '%album%.jpg' for artwork, but this was broken for a number of the 5.x and early 6.x releases. Anyone who was using this type of file naming convention got wise and just went to cover.jpg or folder.jpg, which always works.

luckily, i don't need to figure that out. :)

in any case, i don't think that when something doesn't work, the solution should be to either ignore it, or perform some workaround. i think the answer is to give feedback which is useful to the developers, and try to get the feature they've obviously intended to include to actually work properly.


I'll bet an exceedingly small percentage of users even use thumbnails other that those generated from the full sized artwork images.

and i'm trying to NOT use thumbnails! the problem was i couldn't figure out how to get SS to NOT use them, b/c the documentation wasn't where the function was, or on the wiki, for reasons i can't understand.

just b/c very few people might want to "browse artwork" with pics that don't look crappy, (and i don't believe that btw) doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed.

not trying to be argumentative, just saying i shouldn't have to defend the notion of something working properly, or having full and useful documentaion, especially IF the function is there! and thats regardless of however few people use it.


No, the rescan plugin has never been able to do a wipe (clear) and rescan. I'd always wished it would allow that, as the non-clearing scan has always been lacking and unless you're waiting around for it to finish you may as well do a full clear & rescan.

well, we completely agree here. :)

if you can tell it to rescan nightly, is it so hard to modify it so you can specify what kind of scan?

given that the kinds of scans are available already manually, i would hope not.

thx again, -mdw

kdf
2006-07-09, 17:06
On 9-Jul-06, at 3:11 PM, MrSinatra wrote:
>>
>
> A SIDE NOTE??? i'd say this is perhaps the QUINTESSENTIAL piece of
> missing information that is NO WHERE mentioned by either the options OR
> in the wiki, unless i somehow stupidly missed it.
>
> i mean come on, that should ABSOLUTELY

ok, at this point, i'll leave it up to you.
-kdf

MrSinatra
2006-07-09, 18:01
kdf, i don't know if you're a SD employee or not, as your "not an employee" caption could be joking... (things on the net, especially irony, sarcasm, and subtlety are so easily misconstrued)

but i *do* appreciate your feedback, and very obviously i'd be nowhere without what you said. you told me what i needed to know and i'm grateful. it fixed my issue.

however, i get the feeling like you think i have no right or no reason to complain or even speak up *in general* about the problems i have encountered with this stuff?

frankly, that isn't the case.

so if you aren't an employee, once again, 1000 thanks. but if you are an employee, i think your attitude should be "i'm glad this user identified something we could improve on" instead of "at this point, i'll leave it to you."

kdf
2006-07-09, 18:36
On 9-Jul-06, at 6:01 PM, MrSinatra wrote:

>
> kdf, i don't know if you're a SD employee or not, as your "not an
> employee" caption could be joking... (things on the net, especially
> irony, sarcasm, and subtlety are so easily misconstrued)
>
no joke there. I'm not an employee. Too many people who used to act
like I had no right to speak because I was an employee...

> but i *do* appreciate your feedback, and very obviously i'd be nowhere
> without what you said. you told me what i needed to know and i'm
> grateful. it fixed my issue.
good to know.

>
> however, i get the feeling like you think i have no right or no reason
> to complain or even speak up *in general* about the problems i have
> encountered with this stuff?
>
not at all, but I stop when it comes to all uppercase.

as for any details that you've learned, please update the wiki with any
details you feel would be useful additions to help any other users who
may end up in your former situation.
-kdf

MrSinatra
2006-07-09, 19:07
i use uppercase for emphasis, and i didn't use "all" uppercase, i used it on about 6 words spaced apart... i would prefer bold but i don't want to write the extra code for bold, if that even works, i wish this BB had the point and click option for it.

in any case, sorry if a few words in uppercase rubbed you the wrong way, but it was just emphasis.

i'm curious if you voluntarily write code for SD? you seem to know a lot about the product for not being an employee! i take it then from closer examination of your answer that at one point you used to be an employee? is that correct?

as to the wiki, here are my thoughts on that:

1. i've never entered anything into wiki, ever. but b/c you helped me and suggested it, i will if i can figure it out. having said that:

2. i figured the msg board here was my "documented contribution" to the community. i am kind of surprised anyone can update the wiki, what if they're wrong and don't know it?

3. most importantly, regardless of whether it is here or in wiki, it should absolutely be spelled out clearly on the SS home - server settings - interface page.

not having it there is a huge, glaring and ridiculous omission.

since u ignored my other post, i am also still curious as to whether or not you know anything about the scheduled overnight scans? do you know what kind of scan it does, and do you agree that it would be best to clear and scan, or at the very least, have the option to tell it what kind of scan?

again, thx very much. -mdw

kdf
2006-07-09, 20:13
On 9-Jul-06, at 7:07 PM, MrSinatra wrote:
>
> in any case, sorry if a few words in uppercase rubbed you the wrong
> way, but it was just emphasis.

Understandable. it's just where I stop is all...and just for that
thread, really. :)

> i'm curious if you voluntarily write code for SD? you seem to know a
> lot about the product for not being an employee! i take it then from
> closer examination of your answer that at one point you used to be an
> employee? is that correct?

I've never been an employee. I'm a customer. I bought a slimp3 back
in 2001/2. Slimserver was in version 3.x.
I started playing around with the Dark skin to have it add a few
features that I wanted and used that at home. Eventually, I figured
I'd post it since there was a fair bit of demand for third party
'stuff'. i then found that I needed to make a couple of changes in the
server in order to make the skin work fully. i didn't know any perl,
but I only needed a greater than change to less than so it wasn't a
perl thing. SD very quickly added it, and so I asked for a couple more
things ;)

Soon, I was looking at websites to understand the code I was reading,
and adding a few bits and pieces. Then an image was posted on the
forum as a users wish for a skin. I figured it was doable, so I
started working on it. When it was in early stages, Dean asked if I
would be willing to have it included in slimserver. I then wrote an
alarm clock plugin, which was also then folded into slimserver when it
was very simple. For my troubles, I got sent a squeezebox and over the
years more hardware has come to every room.

so, when you see me suggest in other threads to learn perl and post a
patch, I know just how hard it is and just how possible it is.

>
> as to the wiki, here are my thoughts on that:
>
> 1. i've never entered anything into wiki, ever. but b/c you helped me
> and suggested it, i will if i can figure it out. having said that:
>
> 2. i figured the msg board here was my "documented contribution" to the
> community. i am kind of surprised anyone can update the wiki, what if
> they're wrong and don't know it?
>
someone else will edit. That's the fun of a wiki. Take a look online
for the details involving Wikipedia and the death of kenneth lay. The
facts were changed every few minutes after the news broke.

> 3. most importantly, regardless of whether it is here or in wiki, it
> should absolutely be spelled out clearly on the SS home - server
> settings - interface page.

I disagree, especially since the requirement is gone from 6.5

>
> not having it there is a huge, glaring and ridiculous omission.
> since u ignored my other post, i am also still curious as to whether or
> not you know anything about the scheduled overnight scans? do you know
> what kind of scan it does, and do you agree that it would be best to
> clear and scan, or at the very least, have the option to tell it what
> kind of scan?
>
sorry, I didn't realise I'm obliged to answer all questions.
The timed rescan should already offer all scan type options. if not,
then its in 6.5
I spend most of my time with 6.5 because, as you now know, it is my
free time and I spend it how I want.
6.3 is for bug fixes, 6.5 for features. I'm sure you can appreciate
that new features are a luxury and bug fixes are the requirement.

Slimserver is completely open. you don't like things, change them.
You feel there isn't enough docs, change them. You posted on the
forum, so yes other users will find it if they bother to use the search
features. however, I'm fairly certain most don't. Case in point: many
topics on artwork have me posting that a wipe and rescan is needed.

And now, I really am done with this thread. Please respect that.
-kdf

MrSinatra
2006-07-09, 22:44
so, when you see me suggest in other threads to learn perl and post a
patch, I know just how hard it is and just how possible it is.

sure, but i would argue it isn't possible for everyone.

i would further argue that it is not a reasonable position for a company that wants happy customers to abdicate responsibility for addressing something just b/c another alternative exists. luckily, i have yet to see a SD employee take such a position.

its a bit like Exxon saying "don't like our prices? drill your own oil." well, sure, i could, (and admittedly its an extreme example), but i don't think it should be the defacto response.

am i glad that options exist? sure. but do i think i have an obligation to fix problems as a customer? do i think i can't request that they make what i consider to be common sense changes? no.

if i get someone to do body work and "pimp my ride" and they don't get it right, i'm not gonna get the "time/life" series of books explaining how to pimp my ride. i'm going to ask them that they fix it and or do it right, even though i could learn how to pimp my ride itself.

(hope you don't mind i'm just having some fun with the examples)


someone else will edit. That's the fun of a wiki.

i did update it and i was shocked how easy it is to do. i guess when i read it i will have to take a grain of salt as the info may not be official or correct. but i take your point on that someone else will edit.

btw, my first attempt was horribly botched, but luckily i don't think i ultimately screwed it up.


> 3. most importantly, regardless of whether it is here or in wiki, it should absolutely be spelled out clearly on the SS home - server settings - interface page.

not having it there is a huge, glaring and ridiculous omission.

I disagree, especially since the requirement is gone from 6.5

regarding 6.5, fine, but regarding 6.3 which is the current official release, i don't see how anyone could reasonably disagree with that. its the only settings function in SS i am currently aware of that requires another act to make it work yet has no mention of this other act.

without investigation, on the forums or now on the wiki, there is NO indication whatsoever that one need do anything more than click "update."

when it comes to 6.3, it should be there.


> since u ignored my other post, i am also still curious as to whether or not you know anything about the scheduled overnight scans? do you know what kind of scan it does, and do you agree that it would be best to clear and scan, or at the very least, have the option to tell it what kind of scan?
>
sorry, I didn't realise I'm obliged to answer all questions.

i did not say or imply you're obligated to resond to anything. i merely stated that you didn't respond to my other post, (ostensibly b/c of the caps). that being the case, i didn't want the other pertinent questions and topics in that post to get lost and forgotten.


The timed rescan should already offer all scan type options. if not, then its in 6.5
I spend most of my time with 6.5 because, as you now know, it is my free time and I spend it how I want.
6.3 is for bug fixes, 6.5 for features. I'm sure you can appreciate that new features are a luxury and bug fixes are the requirement.

well, first i'm very happy that its in 6.5, b/c its not in 6.3, so thats great.

i'm not sure what exactly you're responding to in regards to the rest of what you say, i don't think i ever made any criticism about how you spend your time, or what ver of SS you use.

personally, i avoid beta software, but i think its great that the beta stuff is there for you or anyone who wants to use it or test it or whatever... i look forward to its release.


Slimserver is completely open. you don't like things, change them.

see above.


You feel there isn't enough docs, change them.

i feel a function, any function, in SS that is officially released, should be updated / documented properly by SD, not by me and not on my own personal copy that would only benefit me.


You posted on the forum, so yes other users will find it if they bother to use the search features. however, I'm fairly certain most don't. Case in point: many topics on artwork have me posting that a wipe and rescan is needed.

well, a couple of points on that...

i know you may not be directing this personally at me, BUT for the record, i did do a search.

i first looked at the FAQ, and then i searched the forums.

when i searched the forums, of course i did not use the words "clear and scan" b/c i had no idea that was the answer, and "wipe" isn't even the term used in SS.

also i admit, i did not look at ALL of the tons of results my searches returned, but i did try to find the answer with more than a cursory effort first before posting. so, i feel i did enough due diligence given the situation.

and to be as clear as possible, once again, i GREATLY appreciate not only your replies, but ANYONES replies to something i post.


And now, I really am done with this thread. Please respect that.
-kdf

this is where you lose me. do i have a gun to your head or something? if you don't want to respond, THEN DON'T. how am i responsible for if you post [or not]? i don't get why you said this, but whatever... i'm grateful for your help regardless, thx. -mdw

stinkingpig
2006-07-10, 07:57
On 7/9/06, MrSinatra <
MrSinatra.2apt0z1152510301 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
>
> kdf Wrote:
> > so, when you see me suggest in other threads to learn perl and post a
> > patch, I know just how hard it is and just how possible it is.
>
> sure, but i would argue it isn't possible for everyone.


....

There is one thing that confuses me about this type of post -- not trying to
pick on you in particular MrSinatra, just pointing out a commonality of this
thread with many others:

User1: I don't like something! How can this be fixed?
User2: That's the way it is.
KDF: That's the way it is, here's the bug report, try 6.5, and/or edit the
wiki.
User1: But I don't like those options! If SDI doesn't do things the way that
I like, then clearly they'll go out of business in 10 seconds or so, because
I am a typical consumer and it is impossible to achieve success without 100%
penetration of the market for typical consumers!
User3: That is not so, slew of opinions and ideas.
User1: Oh but it is, and my unhappiness increases by the moment. Days have
gone by and the feature is still not to my satisfaction!
KDF: If you don't like it, fix it.
User1: Hurt feelings, I can't possibly learn how to fix it, and moreover I
don't want to.
KDF: okay.
User4: Bump!

Hypothesis: The time spent writing these threads is greater than the time
required to find workarounds, change the wiki docs, or actually fix things.

It's just too bad that there isn't a macro on the forum software. User1
could just input $PROBLEM and sit back to watch the whole 5-10,000 word
thing unfurl over the next three days. In fact, I think that this macro is
key to getting Squeezeboxes onto the shelves of WalMart and IKEA and thence
into every household in the world... it must be done! SDI, this is critical
to your success, make it so.

--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional

kdf
2006-07-10, 08:33
On 10-Jul-06, at 7:57 AM, Jack Coates wrote:

>
> It's just too bad that there isn't a macro on the forum software.


haha! If I'm that predictable, I should just sit back and let others
answer for me. Jack, are you up for time sharing? ;)
-k

Marc Sherman
2006-07-10, 08:46
Jack Coates wrote:
>
> It's just too bad that there isn't a macro on the forum software. User1
> could just input $PROBLEM and sit back to watch the whole 5-10,000 word
> thing unfurl over the next three days. In fact, I think that this macro is
> key to getting Squeezeboxes onto the shelves of WalMart and IKEA and thence
> into every household in the world... it must be done! SDI, this is critical
> to your success, make it so.

Jack, I'm pretty sure that the bulletin board software is open source,
and patches are welcome. :)

- Marc

radish
2006-07-10, 09:50
am i glad that options exist? sure. but do i think i have an obligation to fix problems as a customer? do i think i can't request that they make what i consider to be common sense changes? no.
I just wanted to comment on this. There is certainly no obligation on any customer to fix a problem, and likewise there's nothing saying you can't request a change/fix - that's what bugs.slimdevices.com is for. However, fixes via the "official" channels can take time, as issues have to be prioritized vs limited resources. All kdf was saying is that if this issue is such a problem for you, and it's not being resolved as quickly as you desire, there is the option of fixing it yourself. Your other option is simply to wait. With most software products, you only have the second option.





not having it there is a huge, glaring and ridiculous omission.

I disagree, especially since the requirement is gone from 6.5


regarding 6.5, fine, but regarding 6.3 which is the current official release, i don't see how anyone could reasonably disagree with that. its the only settings function in SS i am currently aware of that requires another act to make it work yet has no mention of this other act.

without investigation, on the forums or now on the wiki, there is NO indication whatsoever that one need do anything more than click "update."

when it comes to 6.3, it should be there.

While I agree that the extra verbage probably should be there, I disagree that it's ommission is "huge, glaring and ridiculous". It's actually pretty small, subtle and trivial. It's not in 6.3, and there's nothing that can be done about that - but if someone raises a bug ticket it may be included into a future version of the 6.3.x branch. Of course if 6.5 comes along quickly we may not need it.

Siduhe
2006-07-10, 10:07
User1: I don't like something! How can this be fixed?
User2: That's the way it is.
KDF: That's the way it is, here's the bug report, try 6.5, and/or edit the
wiki.
User1: But I don't like those options! If SDI doesn't do things the way that
I like, then clearly they'll go out of business in 10 seconds or so, because
I am a typical consumer and it is impossible to achieve success without 100%
penetration of the market for typical consumers!
User3: That is not so, slew of opinions and ideas.
User1: Oh but it is, and my unhappiness increases by the moment. Days have
gone by and the feature is still not to my satisfaction!
KDF: If you don't like it, fix it.
User1: Hurt feelings, I can't possibly learn how to fix it, and moreover I
don't want to.
KDF: okay.
User4: Bump!

This made me laugh out loud. And not in a bad way, or in anyway trying to denigrate the contribution that Mr Sinatra is making. But I think it hits the nail on the head.

It's impossible to come up with a product that is infinitely variable and configurable to meet individual likes and dislikes, whilst keeping it simple and accessible to the average user.

Personally, I think Slim do a pretty good job of "out of the box" for the average user (though arguably not as good as Sonos or Roku) but with plenty of configurability for the people who want to go further. But then I would think that - I'm one of the people who want to go a bit further.

What I find difficult is to know how to respond to someone who has a query which can be resolved, but the resolution requires some modification of their setup, which they aren't willing to do.

"But I don't want to do that" is a perfectly valid response, but it seems to me that the answer is then "fine, file a bug and see if you can get enough people who feel the same way to vote for it and bring it to the attention of the development team".

MrSinatra
2006-07-10, 17:27
On 7/9/06, MrSinatra <
MrSinatra.2apt0z1152510301 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
>
> kdf Wrote:
> > so, when you see me suggest in other threads to learn perl and post a
> > patch, I know just how hard it is and just how possible it is.
>
> sure, but i would argue it isn't possible for everyone.


....

There is one thing that confuses me about this type of post -- not trying to
pick on you in particular MrSinatra, just pointing out a commonality of this
thread with many others:

User1: I don't like something! How can this be fixed?
User2: That's the way it is.
KDF: That's the way it is, here's the bug report, try 6.5, and/or edit the
wiki.
User1: But I don't like those options! If SDI doesn't do things the way that
I like, then clearly they'll go out of business in 10 seconds or so, because
I am a typical consumer and it is impossible to achieve success without 100%
penetration of the market for typical consumers!
User3: That is not so, slew of opinions and ideas.
User1: Oh but it is, and my unhappiness increases by the moment. Days have
gone by and the feature is still not to my satisfaction!
KDF: If you don't like it, fix it.
User1: Hurt feelings, I can't possibly learn how to fix it, and moreover I
don't want to.
KDF: okay.
User4: Bump!

Hypothesis: The time spent writing these threads is greater than the time
required to find workarounds, change the wiki docs, or actually fix things.

It's just too bad that there isn't a macro on the forum software. User1
could just input $PROBLEM and sit back to watch the whole 5-10,000 word
thing unfurl over the next three days. In fact, I think that this macro is
key to getting Squeezeboxes onto the shelves of WalMart and IKEA and thence
into every household in the world... it must be done! SDI, this is critical
to your success, make it so.

--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional

the problem with your post is that as an analogy, it doesn't apply to me, altho i can see it as generally applicable. but, i never claimed the sky was falling, i just said within the context of this specific function, there's no good excuse.

in other words, you could have found a better example, (i've seen them in just the past week). moreover, i didn't demand immediate fixes or changes or anything... i merely criticized the current situation, and said it should be fixed, hardly a radical position given the facts.

there is a difference, a huge and gigantic difference, between "not liking something" / wanting something to be different and or added, whatever etc...

and in pointing out the failure of an included given function that is INTENDED to be used, to be of no use whatsoever b/c the proper documentation doesn't exist where it belongs in the functions explanation.

as i said, it is the only function in SS i am aware of that requires a completely separate act to make it work, and yet gives not a clue as to that fact. (but does a hell of a good job at being confusing)

if you can defend that, and show me how the onus is on me to figure this out, write code, perform miracles, hire a PI, rather than on them to be informative in the proper context, then i'll eat my hat.

as far as "hurt feelings" i assure you i have none. i'm a robot. but i confess i do feel "justified frustration" towards SS 6.3

MrSinatra
2006-07-10, 17:41
I just wanted to comment on this. There is certainly no obligation on any customer to fix a problem, and likewise there's nothing saying you can't request a change/fix - that's what bugs.slimdevices.com is for. However, fixes via the "official" channels can take time, as issues have to be prioritized vs limited resources. All kdf was saying is that if this issue is such a problem for you, and it's not being resolved as quickly as you desire, there is the option of fixing it yourself. Your other option is simply to wait. With most software products, you only have the second option.

at some poiunt, did i say anything to give you the impression that i thought any differently from anything you just wrote?

i don't recall demanding anything right now this second, i merely made my case that something was inadequite... and it was the resistence to that fact, in the various forms of the replies, which baffles me.

you go on (as others have) to admit that i am in fact, right, the explanation should be better and stated. but then u turnaround and act as if i've done something wrong to point this out.

i don't get it.

the problem for me was fixed when kdf imparted the knowledge to me. SS should have done that in their explanation. all i have done here, is said in no uncertain terms, i think SD made a bad oversight which imo is glaring, insofar as it relates to the worth of this function, one they INTEND users to use if they so choose.

its not about rushing to fix it, its not about how many people use it, its not about the marketplace or requesting new functions or changes to the design or anything else. its about FIXING a BONER. simple as that. i don't consider myself a heretic to say SD pulled one, and should fix it.


While I agree that the extra verbage probably should be there,

probably? as opposed to what... not being there?

this couldn't be more clear cut. why waver?


I disagree that it's ommission is "huge, glaring and ridiculous". It's actually pretty small, subtle and trivial. It's not in 6.3, and there's nothing that can be done about that - but if someone raises a bug ticket it may be included into a future version of the 6.3.x branch. Of course if 6.5 comes along quickly we may not need it.

its huge, glaring, and ridiculous IF you want to make use of the function. in that context, its huge.

i agree in the overall picture, its not such a big deal, i never said it was. i was speaking within the context of the utility of this fucntion, and i stand by what i said.

MrSinatra
2006-07-10, 17:45
This made me laugh out loud. And not in a bad way, or in anyway trying to denigrate the contribution that Mr Sinatra is making. But I think it hits the nail on the head.

It's impossible to come up with a product that is infinitely variable and configurable to meet individual likes and dislikes, whilst keeping it simple and accessible to the average user.

Personally, I think Slim do a pretty good job of "out of the box" for the average user (though arguably not as good as Sonos or Roku) but with plenty of configurability for the people who want to go further. But then I would think that - I'm one of the people who want to go a bit further.

What I find difficult is to know how to respond to someone who has a query which can be resolved, but the resolution requires some modification of their setup, which they aren't willing to do.

"But I don't want to do that" is a perfectly valid response, but it seems to me that the answer is then "fine, file a bug and see if you can get enough people who feel the same way to vote for it and bring it to the attention of the development team".

just to be clear, i don't even know if what i'm saying qualifies as a bug. i just think a line saying "one must 'clear and scan' their library after updating this option" is necessary.

kdf seems to disagree. and i can't fathom that for the life of me. but, regardless i appreciate the help i get.

stinkingpig
2006-07-10, 20:58
On 7/10/06, MrSinatra <
MrSinatra.2ara1b1152579001 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:...

just to be clear, i don't even know if what i'm saying qualifies as a
> bug. i just think a line saying "one must 'clear and scan' their
> library after updating this option" is necessary.
>
> kdf seems to disagree. and i can't fathom that for the life of me.
> but, regardless i appreciate the help i get.
>
>
My point was that all told, everyone in this post has probably spent 90
minutes or more writing and reading paragraphs and paragraphs of pointless
prose.

I want to clarify that I am not someone who spends any time working with the
Slimserver code -- I do know a decent bit of Perl, but Slimserver is over my
head, and I don't have the time to learn it. My only other advantage is that
my server is on Linux, so I already had the source instead of having to go
download it separately. Once that's done, the Windows or Mac search
functions would do just as well as grep does here, only a bit slower.

Using username "jack".
Authenticating with public key "rsa-key-20050524" from agent
Last login: Sun Jul 9 21:28:03 2006 from 192.168.2.237
Have a lot of fun...
jack@felix:~> cd /usr/local/slimserver/
jack@felix:/usr/local/slimserver> sudo grep -rin "Browse by Artwork" .
../HTML/EN/html/docs/artwork.html:21:the SlimServer interface, and in the
"Browse by artwork" section to
../HTML/EN/html/docs/artwork.html:161:Browse by artwork and status BOTH scale
the same image
../HTML/EN/html/docs/artwork.html:162:file found for Thumb. By default, the
browse by artwork contrains to 100x100,
../strings.txt:3982: EN For Browse By Artwork thumbnails, the server
will search the same default image files as above, and in ID3 Tags.
However, if you wish to use the variable filename feature, or specify your
own filename, enter that here.
../strings.txt:4052: EN Browse By Artwork
../Changelog5.html:975: <li>Kevin Deane-Freeman added a great Browse By
Artwork facility.</li>
../Changelog6.html:1322: <li><a href="
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=896">#896</a> - Browse by
artwork halts on accented characters.
../Changelog6.html:1717: <li><a href="
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=896">#896</a> - Browse by
artwork halts on accented characters.

Hmm, looks like strings.txt line 3982 is where you want to put your warning.

I'm here til Thursday, try the veal,
--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional

MrSinatra
2006-07-10, 21:06
i don't think pointing out broken things like this is pointless.

i do think when people tell me i should just fix it myself and otherwise keep quiet, that is pointless.

also, the code there is greek to me, and of no use. BUT even if i fixed my own copy, (which i now no longer need to do as i shall never forget this experience), but even if i did, what good would that do anyone else?

thx all the same, -mdw