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View Full Version : 6.3.0: Many Duplicate Albums Listed (as well as duped New Music,Album Art, etc)



Bradley
2006-06-28, 16:15
Just upgraded to Slimserver to 6.3.0 from 6.2.2 today on Linux. I was shocked to find this problem (among others -- eg: CPAN issue)

These are obviously Albums containing tracks with different artists, otherwise known as compilation albums.

Is there a fix for this? To me, this isn't a valid release. It should still be beta until it's fixed -- that's why I'd waited to upgrade. So much for that. Maybe it's time for a new DB Architect?

Please help me (and countless others) fix the music library we each depend on. You know how dependent we are on the SlimDevices system at this point.

Thanks in advance,

*Bradley

Siduhe
2006-06-28, 16:25
You might want to look a few threads down.

This is a known issue, but it isn't yet clear whether it is a bug or something to do with a slightly revised way that Slimserver reads tags.

Luckily, it's easy to fix (or at least, has been for most people - one I think is still experiencing problems). Open the affected album in a tagger and resave the album tag and the compilation tag (if you use it). Do a full clear and rescan, including deleting the existing cache.

HTH

Bradley
2006-06-29, 04:47
This is a known issue, but it isn't yet clear whether it is a bug or something to do with a slightly revised way that Slimserver reads tags.


I'm sorry, but this IS A BUG. It did not exist in previous versions. It's ruining my experience with this product -- It will no doubt ruin the experience of other users (especially new users).

I have a huge music library of solely FLAC files and many, many compilation albums. My system runs on Gentoo Linux

It is LUDICROUS to ask me to go into some editor and resave tags. The tags are fine. THE CODE IS BROKEN, not the Tags. All I did was take a fully functioning 6.2.2 release and install 6.3.0. Developers MUST fix it, NOT put the burden on users.

If you folks changed the way the system handles tags, then either write a compatibility layer that bridges any changes in logic, or write a converter that fixes tags to what Slimserver needs to see.

As a former VP of Development and CTO at many firms, I would never tolerate a situation like this -- nor a release of software that breaks basic functionality. Where is the regression testing?

A word to SlimDevices: It's great that you've enjoyed success to date with your products, but start facilitating BS like this 6.3.0 release and watch your customer base rapidly shrink towards zero.

*Bradley

MadScientist
2006-06-29, 05:09
Totally agree, if a newer software release screws up what a previous version was performing well, it has a bug.

Think I'll hold 'upgrading' to 6.3 until the consensus of opinion is that it's a sensible thing to do.

MS

ModelCitizen
2006-06-29, 05:12
I have to agree that this must be a bug and (even if it isn't) the release of 6.3 should have been put back until it was sorted (one way or another).

However, if it helps you at all Bradley I found is very easy to get round by opening all my compilation albums at once in FooBar2000 (as I am on Windows) and adding the tag COMPILATION value 1. Luckily for me all my Compilation album folders begin with VA to they were instant to identify.

The extra features included with 6.3 made this well worth doing.

MC

Siduhe
2006-06-29, 05:13
It is LUDICROUS to ask me to go into some editor and resave tags. The tags are fine. THE CODE IS BROKEN, not the Tags. All I did was take a fully functioning 6.2.2 release and install 6.3.0. Developers MUST fix it, NOT put the burden on users.

If you folks changed the way the system handles tags, then either write a compatibility layer that bridges any changes in logic, or write a converter that fixes tags to what Slimserver needs to see.


For the avoidance of doubt, I'm nothing to do with Slim. Thanks for making me so pleased that I took time out to try and assist you by directing you to the ongoing discussion about this issue (which you seemingly didn't even bother to look three threads down for), as well offering a work-around suggestion as to how you might want to fix it, pending something more focused from SD.

For myself, my current theory is that its something to do with the way that Slimserver reads the ALBUMARTIST tags in 6.3.0. As you say, it may be a bug or it may be a logic / conflict issue, but I haven't yet been able to reproduce it at will.

Or perhaps you might want to file a bug yourself if you're not happy to follow my suggestion ? It's usually the best way to get the developers attention, rather than sounding off on these fora.

Regards

ModelCitizen
2006-06-29, 05:15
For myself, my current theory is that its something to do with the way that Slimserver reads the ALBUMARTIST tags in 6.3.0.
None of my files include an ALBUMARTIST tag, so can your current theory still stand?

Oooh, and opening the files and resaving the tags did not cure the problem either.

MC

Siduhe
2006-06-29, 05:21
None of my files include an ALBUMARTIST tag, so can your current theory still stand?

Oooh, and opening the files and resaving the tags did not cure the problem either.

MC

Ah well, as I say, just a theory. Time for me to bow out, I think.

Was the "Oooh" really necessary particularly when I did suggest the compilation tag as a possible solution too ? Perhaps I'm just being over-sensitive, and whilst I understand the frustration that things like this cause - not least because I had to go through the same process as you to fix my db, I'm really not up for that being directed at me when I'm just trying to contribute to the discussion.

ModelCitizen
2006-06-29, 05:25
Hey Sidue,
I'm sorry, I did not mean my comments to be taken that way. They were supplied in a spirit of helpfullness, not antagonism. I have been (and still am) very, very appreciate of your help.

The Oooh, was added as I just remembered to put the comment in at the last moment.

Sorry to offend you. I don't want to be responsable for you feeling you cannot provide people with help any more.

:-(

MC

dae3dae3
2006-06-29, 06:10
A little over the top on the rage but I agree that this is a bug and not a feature.

End users should not have to go through and retag all their cd's. I know that I have many cd's that could be affected by this bug.

ceejay
2006-06-29, 06:34
All

have a look at http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2976 which I think may be relevant. It discusses a bug fix for another problem. In the discussion a side effect like the one being discussed here is anticipated.

I think this shows that the Slim folks did at least consider what they did, and came to a conclusion. Now, it may be that they've missed the relative importance of the problem being fixed vs the one being introduced, but I think the discussion would go smoother with a little more light and a little less heat...


Ceejay

Philip Meyer
2006-06-29, 14:29
In the past I believe the scanning part of the software attempted to be clever and interpret what albums should be regarded as compilations.

A recent change to fix other issues with scanning compilations has perhaps changed the guessing functionality. I'm a bit hazy on the specifics. Proper tagging of your music library would certainly help. This would have benefits such as perhaps working better in other software packages, and perhaps make scanning faster.

Its a bit like the rules for guessing missing tags in music files - they don't work too well. It's much better to have proper tags so the scanner knows how to treat albums.

I'm sure the developers are doing their best. I'm sure the releases are tested fairly well. They have to make the software cater for many different situations. Problems like this will happen, but I'm sure problems will be rectified.

So, I suggest you consider some of the other advice already given for quickly setting the COMPILATION tag correctly for your various artists albums, and perhaps be a tad less aggressive to the developers who are doing their best.

Alternatively, raise a bug report and see if you can provide some useful information to help the developers fix the issue for your situation.

Phil

autopilot
2006-06-29, 15:40
I too upgraded to 6.3 today and have the same problem. It's a real pain.

Also, the CD's i have ripped to an image/CUE also show up twice in album art.

bmountney
2006-06-29, 16:21
I began having this same problem after upgrading to 6.3.0, and in my case it appears to be related to the data coming in from MusicIP Server, rather than from SlimServer's own scan.

If I do a full rescan with "Don't use MusicMagic" the duplicate albums are gone. If, on the other hand, I point SlimServer's music library at an empty folder, and enable MusicMagic, I get all of the duplicates, which completely eliminates SlimServer's own scan from the experiment.

So, SlimServer appears to be misinterpreting MusicMagic's data.

- Bill

balson
2006-06-29, 17:04
I have been using my slim device now since december of last year,
and soft squeeze for the last 2-3 months. I like them both very much.
However, something is missing that I would love to have. And that is
a delay between the songs. Not a cross fade, which is already there.
But a delay in between the songs, which would mean silence for some
number of seconds. I like to listen to my music with a 15-45 second
gap in between the songs. Sometimes longer, sometimes shorter.

This feature does not exists, should be easy to implement I guess.
just "sleep(n);" before playing the next song.

Am I the only one who would like to see this feature in the players?



Jim


--------------------------------------
Jim
balson AT comcast DOT net

kdf
2006-06-29, 17:26
Quoting balson <balson (AT) comcast (DOT) net>:

> I like to listen to my music with a 15-45 second
> gap in between the songs. Sometimes longer, sometimes shorter.

for players with digital output, there is a player setting that can
add 0-5 seconds before a song start (to allow for DAC's to sync up).
You might be able to hack that pref into the prefs file and see how
that turns out.

> This feature does not exists, should be easy to implement I guess.
> just "sleep(n);" before playing the next song.

that woudl block everything else from happening as well, on all
players, for web and remote control input.

> Am I the only one who would like to see this feature in the players?

probably not, but I'm guessing it is still a small number.

either you can file requests at bugs.slimdevices.com, select
"enhancement" as the severity and let people vote on it.

-kdf

realtyler
2006-06-30, 18:25
A word to SlimDevices: It's great that you've enjoyed success to date with your products, but start facilitating BS like this 6.3.0 release and watch your customer base rapidly shrink towards zero.

*Bradley

This has been my experience with this product (and I'm experiencing the duplicate entries as well), and others whom I have tried to turn on to it. The product is marvelous, the hardware beautiful, the solution it provides better than any other product (especially @ the price point) that I can find.

I struggle with the fact, 'though, that it needs to be an *appliance* that just works, and not something that I spend lots of time mucking around with server settings, rescanning my library, wondering why my playlists disappeared, scratching my head over duplicate album entries, puzzling over why when my Slimserver shuts down, my Squeeze won't automatically reconnect when I start up my computer again. Responses of "get the nightly build" to questions posed makes me frustrated...I can't imagine someone less technically inclined/interested dealing with it. At the end of the day, the overhead to running this is so high...it's a high price to pay for what is admittedly a hugely cool product.

A product like this, for it to really move into serious sales numbers, just has to be more plug and play.

dae3dae3
2006-06-30, 20:05
Responses of "get the nightly build" to questions posed makes me frustrated...

At least you don't see much of the RTFM answers that you typically see on Linux/Open Source forums. Unfortunately, getting information out of the open source crowd is usually like pulling teeth. The same thing is true on a Do It Yourself speaker building forum that I post on. They have their know-how and don't like to share it.

I agree that the product needs to "just work" in order to go big time. My Slim Server is working well right now so I doubt I will upgrade any time soon unless I read that they have all the bugs out or there is a new feature that I just can't pass up. I have learned that when there are "upgrades" on software packages I always read what the fixes are before I run the patch. If I'm not having the problems that are supposed to be fixed and I don't think I'll use the new feature I won't run the newer version.

You just have to resist the urge to over-tweak. Newer isn't always better. ;-)

kdf
2006-06-30, 23:11
>
> realtyler Wrote:
>> Responses of "get the nightly build" to questions posed makes me
>> frustrated...
>
>
would you prefer "wait for the next release in 6 months"?
pointless complaint in my book. releases have problems, fine.
don't bitch about the availability of NIGHTLY freaking updates and
fixes.
-k

oreillymj
2006-07-01, 00:29
KDF,

While some posts in this thread do seem to have a bitchiness about them, I do think some of Slim's CUSTOMERS do have a point.

Some users bought this sytem to just rip their CD's and start listening to music. They did not expect to become a sysadmin.

I recently had some synch problems with my 2 wireless SB's. Just out of curiosity, I thought I look at the Sonos forums to see if their customers had the same problem. A poster there was asking for a purchase recommendation of Slim Vs. Sonos. One of the replies from a former Slim owner made the very point that Sonos is a plug and play system for non-computer literate music lovers, whereas Slim requires a degree of constant tinkering/upgrading. That's fine by me, but many people find iPod/iTune confusing. They are clueless about computers/software and want something that just works. Apple have focused their business around building computer products for people who don't care orwant to know about how computer work. They want something thy can switch on and be productive.

Now, as for the Various artists issue, iTunes will tag all of your Various artists tracks in <1 minute. You just need to be able to identify them in your library.

I suggest that Slim add some guidance for users to the release notes prior to download giving some guidance on any new behaviour existing users may see after upgrading. Then users can make an informed choice on whether to upgrade or live with existing bugs.

kdf
2006-07-01, 00:39
On 1-Jul-06, at 12:29 AM, oreillymj wrote:

>
> KDF,
>
> While some posts in this thread do seem to have a bitchiness about
> them, I do think some of Slim's CUSTOMERS do have a point.
>
sure, but do I HAVE to agree...no.

> Some users bought this sytem to just rip their CD's and start listening
> to music. They did not expect to become a sysadmin.
>
no, but then they also want the latest skin....no?

I also suggest some focus...but that would require some restraint from
users. how dare I suggest that.
customer driven, has its price.
-k

JJZolx
2006-07-01, 01:01
>
> realtyler Wrote:
>> Responses of "get the nightly build" to questions posed makes me
>> frustrated...
>
>
would you prefer "wait for the next release in 6 months"?
pointless complaint in my book. releases have problems, fine.
don't bitch about the availability of NIGHTLY freaking updates and
fixes.
I think the point was simply that the quality level of SlimServer releases has been sorely lacking. Since I do run the nightlies, and think that they tend to be much more reliable than the releases, this hasn't been an issue for me. But try to realize the fact that most people don't want to screw around with beta software and installing fixes to basic functionality every other day. Start releasing software that has been tested more thoroughly. SlimServer doesn't have a stellar record of quality and 6.3.0 certainly doesn't appear to have changed that record. Slim Devices has quickly gotten into the rut of marketing pushing out software well before it's ready to be released, and someone needs to put an end to this stupid habit.

kdf
2006-07-01, 01:22
On 1-Jul-06, at 1:01 AM, JJZolx wrote:

>
> But try to realize the fact that most
>
yeah...I'm the one who has to realise.
keep singing the same song, mate. stupid...really
-k

Ledwidge
2006-07-01, 03:53
In Australia the issue of releases is significant. If a customer purchased a squeezebox and the software clearly doesn't run properly i.e. duplicates entries etc, the distributor in Australia would be liable under consumer law. The customer could demand a full refund etc etc.

This is not good for Slim Devices. Offering a formal release with a major bug in a competitive market is just plain stupid.

Patrick Dixon
2006-07-01, 04:26
In Australia the issue of releases is significant. If a customer purchased a squeezebox and the software clearly doesn't run properly i.e. duplicates entries etc, the distributor in Australia would be liable under consumer law. The customer could demand a full refund etc etc.

This is not good for Slim Devices. Offering a formal release with a major bug in a competitive market is just plain stupid.
I think there's probably a legal issue as to whether the 'bug' is in the customer's tags or in slimserver, but in any event SD will give you 30 days to return their product if it doesn't work for you.

So not really a problem.

mherger
2006-07-01, 05:32
> people don't want to screw around with beta software and installing

....that's why everybody's running after that latest Windows XYZ beta
release which makes MS talk about breaking the internet due to demand...
People just LOVE beta software if it's announced loud enough :-)

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------
Help translate SlimServer by using the
StringEditor Plugin (http://www.herger.net/slim/)

Michaelwagner
2006-07-01, 09:13
in any event SD will give you 30 days to return their product if it doesn't work for you.
As I understand it, this is only for sales direct from SD.

Sales through the retail chain don't work the same way. It's up to the retailer to offer this guarantee (or not) and Slim doesn't back them up.

realtyler
2006-07-01, 09:16
don't bitch about the availability of NIGHTLY freaking updates and fixes.
-k

Whoa...hold on cowboy. If you read my post, you'll see that I did not complain about their availability at all...I think it's fantastic that they're available and that fixes come quickly and that there's a responsive and transparent development group behind SlimServer.

My point was, and is, that Slimdevices is selling an appliance and it's not working like one. Like a CD player. Or an amplifier. Or an iPod. "Official" releases of the server software just have to work better. To have such serious regressions in functionality with a major release just isn't OK, and it will lose customers & keep new ones from joining. And it's a shame, because the product is excellent (I mean seriously...Pandora integration? Rhapsody integration? How ridiculously greatis that?).

Your clear disdain & righteous indignation of my wanting this to "just work" is all well and good, but come on now...there's a very very small customer base out there who wants to play and futz and tweak and install nightly builds of these things. I want the Squeeze to succeed...I've been using mine for years. Better Server quality of official releases is mandatory for the Squeeze to be a bigger player.

oreillymj
2006-07-01, 09:16
Personally, I would disagree with the notion that marketing dictate when Slim release software.

As someone unable to use the Pandora feature in 6.3, the release contain nothing new except bug-fixes for me.

I would also agree that if customers constantly request new features, they must accept some of the pain of new bugs.
And I would also agree with the fact the different usage models of users means that there is no "right" way for Slim to build a library. Just the way that meets most people's needs.

That doesn't alter the fact that a large percentage of computer users/slim customers neither understand or care a great deal about computers. All they want is a music appliance that works reliably.
New releases should not change the user experience.

Apple & Sonos's way of dealing with this is to provide a complete closed end to end solution, ripping, library and playback. If you don't like any part of the system, then tough luck, go somewhere else.

Perhaps Slim would consider a maintenance release. No new features, plugins or skins would be accepted, just bug-fixes.

Michaelwagner
2006-07-01, 09:22
Didn't Slim just hire a new QA guy?

kdf
2006-07-01, 09:35
On 1-Jul-06, at 9:22 AM, Michaelwagner wrote:

>
> Didn't Slim just hire a new QA guy?
>
oh please, dont start attacking individuals... I know you aren't here,
but just dont even start.
The class level of these forums don't need to sink any further. qsnap
thread was bad enough.
-k

kdf
2006-07-01, 09:53
On 1-Jul-06, at 9:16 AM, realtyler wrote:

>
> My point was, and is, that Slimdevices is selling an appliance and it's
> not working like one. Like a CD player. Or an amplifier. Or an iPod.
>
yup, the iPod is perfect. never a word of troubles there.

however, your point is moot because a great number of users never have
a problem, thus never post here and give us no way of knowing any real
facts.
the rants are from people who are upset because their obsession of the
day isn't working right. I have no doubt in my mind that a fair portion
of that same crowd would also be complaining about the lack of a
release if they didn't come out at a good clip. I've been around long
enough to remember the ranting that resulted in the whole nightly build
process in the first place. That is what they are there for: users who
want the fix now can "get the latest nightly". No one holds a gun to
their head to do so. They are perfectly free to stick with the
released versions. In fact, there hasn't been a 6.3 nightly since the
release, and there are already users who are asking why not. If there
isn't a patent yet on a retroactive software release fix, perhaps
that's a good one for someone to file. Someday it might actually be
possible and you can sue them for their entire profits.

and no, I'm not expecting you to understand, care, or stop trying to
make your (I use 'you' because you are there, but it applies globally
as this is a public discussion) point over and over. just don't expect
me to convert .
if you don't like my opinion, that's ok. you don't have to.
-k

Michaelwagner
2006-07-01, 10:04
oh please, dont start attacking individuals...
KDF: you misunderstood my intention.
So let me reword it.
Rather than focusing on the person,

didn't Slim recently create and fill a position for Quality Assurance?

It would be instructive to know how the QA function failed to operate properly in this case.

Was changing the way Slim guessed at Compilation Albums not known to the QA function? Or not seen as significant?

oreillymj
2006-07-01, 13:49
KDF,

I'm not saying that the iPOD is perfect. Far for it, I don't own one. Bought a flash iRiver that takes AA batteries.

The point I'm making is. Most users a clueless sheep ;-)
They want something simple that "just works"

This is my final post in this thread as it risks becoming bad tempered and has already veered a long way away from the original subject.

I marked all my various artist albums "compilations" in iTunes, did a full rescan and I'm now enjoying a beer, watching the World Cup. Life's too short.

kdf
2006-07-01, 15:33
Quoting Michaelwagner
<Michaelwagner.2aa0ib1151773501 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:

>
> kdf Wrote:
>> oh please, dont start attacking individuals...
> KDF: you misunderstood my intention.
> So let me reword it.
> Rather than focusing on the person,
>
> didn't Slim recently create and fill a position for Quality Assurance?

yes, they did.
however, the rewording fails to sound any less of a leading question to me.
but hey, never matters what I think :)
-k

Michaelwagner
2006-07-01, 18:23
It's not about you. We're leaving personalities out of it, remember?

mherger
2006-07-01, 23:12
These are obviously Albums containing tracks with different artists, otherwise known as compilation albums.

At the risk of getting back to the subject: do you also see problems with multi disc sets of the same artist? I'm using the "Group albums" option, have set the TPOS (Part of a set) tags and still see discs of a single separated. The second album displays the track numbers as "2-1", "2-2" (album - track number) while the first won't display the album number.

Patrick Dixon
2006-07-02, 03:38
At the risk of getting back to the subject: do you also see problems with multi disc sets of the same artist? I'm using the "Group albums" option, have set the TPOS (Part of a set) tags and still see discs of a single separated. The second album displays the track numbers as "2-1", "2-2" (album - track number) while the first won't display the album number.
Please see my bug 3662 - this was working correctly and is broken in the release.

MrC
2006-07-02, 10:48
This thead prompted me to examine my setups 6.3 treatment of multi-disc, and noticed the same issue that Pat is experiencing. I had submitted a patch (which went into 6.3) to allow J.River's Media Center's tag ('Disk #') to be mapped to DISC, and prior to the final release, multi-disc was working.

mikerob
2006-07-02, 15:37
I began having this same problem after upgrading to 6.3.0, and in my case it appears to be related to the data coming in from MusicIP Server, rather than from SlimServer's own scan.

If I do a full rescan with "Don't use MusicMagic" the duplicate albums are gone. If, on the other hand, I point SlimServer's music library at an empty folder, and enable MusicMagic, I get all of the duplicates, which completely eliminates SlimServer's own scan from the experiment.

So, SlimServer appears to be misinterpreting MusicMagic's data.

- Bill

I came across exactly the same scenario. Going back to 6.2.2 fixed the problem and no duplicates were displayed.

I don't think Slimserver is misinterpreting MusicMagic's data - MusicMagic just provides a list of file paths. SlimServer still needs to go to the files and extract the tags so the problem seems to be with the interpretation of the tags.

shabbs
2006-07-02, 20:47
Well - I just rebuilt my new home system and loaded v6.3.0 on it after running v6.2.2 on my old system and had the same issue as everyone else here. Main screen was showing that I had 14,000+ songs in my library when I knew full well I only had 9,000+. Re-installed, re-scanned, etc... many times over in the past few days and then came here. My tags are clean and have been from the start. Now I'm rolling back to v6.2.2 to fix the issue.

Looks like v6.3.0 was not ready for prime time just yet...

Hopefully v6.3.1 will have a fix.

Cheers.

Patrick Dixon
2006-07-03, 01:23
Well - I just rebuilt my new home system and loaded v6.3.0 on it after running v6.2.2 on my old system and had the same issue as everyone else here. Main screen was showing that I had 14,000+ songs in my library when I knew full well I only had 9,000+. Re-installed, re-scanned, etc... many times over in the past few days and then came here. My tags are clean and have been from the start. Now I'm rolling back to v6.2.2 to fix the issue.

Looks like v6.3.0 was not ready for prime time just yet...

Hopefully v6.3.1 will have a fix.

Cheers.It would help if you file and/or contribute to a bug report as this will ensure that the problem gets addressed and fixed.

I'm sure you can assume that had the developers known about it prior to release they would have already fixed it, so it obviously doesn't show up with their test dataset.

autopilot
2006-07-03, 02:49
Another thing with 6.3.0...

If you have a CUE and Image file, The almum is shown twice. Once for the CUE and tracks within that CUE, and again for the Image file.

Is this the same bug?

mherger
2006-07-03, 03:35
> I'm sure you can assume that had the developers known about it prior to
> release they would have already fixed it, so it obviously doesn't show
> up with their test dataset.

The multi-disc issue has been fixed by Dan. I can't speak for the VA
problem.

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------
Help translate SlimServer by using the
SlimString Translation Helper (http://www.herger.net/slim/)

shabbs
2006-07-03, 07:22
It would help if you file and/or contribute to a bug report as this will ensure that the problem gets addressed and fixed.

I'm sure you can assume that had the developers known about it prior to release they would have already fixed it, so it obviously doesn't show up with their test dataset.
I would love to help out. This is actually the first issue I've ever had with either the Slim Server software or my Squeezebox. It turns out I have the same issue after rolling back to v6.2.2. Very strange - I need to take a closer look.

Cheers.

shabbs
2006-07-03, 11:52
Update: I installed v6.5b1 - 8255 - Windows XP - EN - cp1252 and it cleared up my duplicate listings on Various Artists issue after it scanned the whole library. I was quite surprised that I still had the issue even after rolling back to v6.2.2 as my old system is still running v6.2.2 and does not have the issue. Very strange.

ntom
2006-07-03, 17:06
As one who looks in from time to time it's interesting to see the responses to the 6.3 release....

I upgraded some time back, encountered the compilation issue, read a few threads on it & concluded I needed to tag compilations as such -took no time with mp3 tag & about 700 albums all told.

My point is that as far as I was concerned it was no big deal & I've got used to having to tinker with settings etc. I've got used to getting p'ed off with my belkin router occasionally failing to recognise the wireless connection....

This is a product that requires some level of technical understanding & a little patience and technical nurturing, but rewards with outstanding sound quality and outstanding vfm.

The nature of open source is great with sometimes unpredictable functionality + rapid response to issues. Downsides ...poor documentation & not much packaging of new releases.

Sure that more time explaining what's in a new release & the possible impact on existing library would mean people making a more informed decision as to whether to upgrade or not.

Of course if you are like me, you'd upgrade anyway, curse for a few day's while you get it all working how you want it again, then settle back to enjoy until the next time.....!!

finnie
2006-07-11, 13:41
Update: I installed v6.5b1 - 8255 - Windows XP - EN - cp1252 and it cleared up my duplicate listings on Various Artists issue after it scanned the whole library. I was quite surprised that I still had the issue even after rolling back to v6.2.2 as my old system is still running v6.2.2 and does not have the issue. Very strange.

Is anyone from Slim Devices looking at this. I have also gone back to 6.2.2 and still no joy.

I run on a QNAP NAS drive, and can't use nightly or beta releases.

It is driving me nuts, I have about 1000 artists listed now because my compilation albums are now listed under each artist.

Help....

Andrew.

kdf
2006-07-11, 13:48
Quoting finnie <finnie.2astcz1152650701 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:


> Is anyone from Slim Devices looking at this. I have also gone back to
> 6.2.2 and still no joy.

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&target_milestone=6.3.1&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED

MrSinatra
2006-07-11, 22:02
its nice to see some people here anyway share my pov that features in an official release should work, and if they don't, the onus is on SD to fix them asap.

for a while, i thought i entered bizarro world, where reasonable expectations were wrong, and unreasonable ones, right.

i love SS, SD, SN, and SB. i would recommend it above anything else for lots of various reasons, point being however i love it.

but that DOES NOT mean that i can't criticize it, lodge a complaint, request a change, or point something out.

yes, its open source.... but that doesn't mean when i buy it i am obligated to fix errors in official releases. the onus is NOT on me.

its still a great product, and SD has to prioritize new features, and even what problems to fix... but i don't have to sit in a corner with a dunce cap on and shut up until they do.

i fully believe i should document my problems, and if i find any fixes, document those too. i fully believe SD benefits from this, and thats why (one reason) they provide such a forum in the first place.

i only wish that everyone who loved their SB and SD's wouldn't get so defensive and offended that someone actually has a criticism to make, ESPECIALLY when its done in a constructive manner.

-mdw

kdf
2006-07-11, 22:15
On 11-Jul-06, at 10:02 PM, MrSinatra wrote:
>
> i only wish that everyone who loved their SB and SD's wouldn't get so
> defensive and offended that someone actually has a criticism to make,
> ESPECIALLY when its done in a constructive manner.
>
yes, how dare anyone have a difference of opinion
-k

MrSinatra
2006-07-11, 22:27
obviously its not the difference of opinion kdf, its the WAY or manner those differences of opinion are conveyed.

i don't talk down to anyone when i post, i don't think i get all huffy or defensive. i think i simply make my point or comment in a constructive and worthwhile way. yes, i vigorously defend my pov, but that doesn't mean i don't respect someone elses, it just means i may disagree with it. also, i don't think anyone has cause to take offense at constructively offered criticisms, whatever they may be.

unfortunately, some people here when stating their contrary opinion to this, that, or whatever, don't do so respecting the opposite viewpoint, and it shows.

kdf
2006-07-11, 22:40
On 11-Jul-06, at 10:27 PM, MrSinatra wrote:

>
> obviously its not the difference of opinion kdf, its the WAY or manner
> those differences of opinion are conveyed.
>
> i don't talk down to anyone when i post, i don't think i get all huffy
> or defensive.

yes, but the issue is done. some let it go. clearly you don't.
that is why I left the conversation. Time to move on to something else.
-k

MrSinatra
2006-07-11, 22:56
On 11-Jul-06, at 10:27 PM, MrSinatra wrote:

>
> obviously its not the difference of opinion kdf, its the WAY or manner
> those differences of opinion are conveyed.
>
> i don't talk down to anyone when i post, i don't think i get all huffy
> or defensive.

yes, but the issue is done. some let it go. clearly you don't.
that is why I left the conversation. Time to move on to something else.
-k

i'm not quite sure what that refers to... but u seem to be assuming i'm directing my comments solely at you, and i'm not.

i leave it up to ...whoever... to decide if my comments apply to them or not.

kdf
2006-07-11, 23:25
On 11-Jul-06, at 10:56 PM, MrSinatra wrote:
>
> i'm not quite sure what that refers to... but u seem to be assuming
> i'm directing my comments solely at you, and i'm not.
>
I'm not. but I do read the threads, and you do seem to be clinging to
the issue.
I made a request, which I felt would be a good one to avoid me going
selective and no longer reading your posts.

I mean no offense by it, and it is simply a request that you can choose
to ignore if you wish.

Some good, helpful people have given up on these forums long before you
came along. One side of the story could be labeled defensive, and the
other side could be called tiring. Make of that tidbit of info as you
will.
-kdf

Marc Sherman
2006-07-12, 05:39
MrSinatra wrote:
>
> yes, its open source.... but that doesn't mean when i buy it i am
> obligated to fix errors in official releases. the onus is NOT on me.

You _didn't_ buy it. It's _free_ software. What you bought was the
Squeezebox.

- Marc

Michaelwagner
2006-07-12, 05:46
Yeah, well.

It's free software but it's the only software around that will drive a squeezebox, which he did pay for.

Marc Sherman
2006-07-12, 05:54
Michaelwagner wrote:
> Yeah, well.
>
> It's free software but it's the only software around that will drive a
> squeezebox, which he did pay for.

If he wasn't happy with the software when he bought his squeezebox, he
should have returned it for a full refund. If he was happy, he should
downgrade until his VERY IMPORTANT bug gets fixed in the current rev.
Either way, continued and unrelenting ranting at kdf and the other
volunteer developers can do nothing but harm to the slimserver user
community by driving away more skilled volunteers.

- Marc

Michaelwagner
2006-07-12, 06:05
I don't think it's that bad. KDF has shown in the past he can take care of himself.

A lot of people don't understand (and don't much care) that the development effort is shared between volunteers and paid staff.

They just want to come home, kick back with a glass of wine and listen to music.

It doesn't sound like it's all that much to ask for.

Marc Sherman
2006-07-12, 06:16
Michaelwagner wrote:
>
> A lot of people don't understand (and don't much care) that the
> development effort is shared between volunteers and paid staff.
>
> They just want to come home, kick back with a glass of wine and listen
> to music.
>
> It doesn't sound like it's all that much to ask for.

That's a fine explanation for his first message. His persistent
harassment is quite annoying.

If the new software is buggy in a way that bothers you, there's
absolutely no good reason to keep running it and not downgrade back to
the version that was obviously acceptable to you when you bought your
squeezebox. I know this for a fact -- I'm still quite happily running
5.4.1. It plays music.

- Marc

shabbs
2006-07-12, 06:36
I had a similar issue. But rolling back to v6.2.2 did not solve the issue even though v6.2.2 was working fine before I upgraded to v6.3.0. I was only able to solve the issue after rolling forward to v6.5b1. Very strange.

Michaelwagner
2006-07-12, 07:56
I'm still quite happily running 5.4.1. It plays music.
True enough. I did the same for quite a long time. I had only SB1s at the time, hated the upgrade to 6, backed down to 5 and ran that for at least 6 months.

kdf
2006-07-12, 08:41
On 12-Jul-06, at 6:05 AM, Michaelwagner wrote:

>
> They just want to come home, kick back with a glass of wine and listen
> to music.
>
> It doesn't sound like it's all that much to ask for.
>
This is completely possible with all currently built versions.
Why is listening to music lumped together with "counting all my albums
and the number isn't right"
yes, it's a problem. It's not like someone cut off your right arm.
Even then, you can still use your left to relieve that nagging tension

it clearly isn't "just come home and listen".
-k

MrSinatra
2006-07-12, 11:25
Michaelwagner wrote:
> Yeah, well.
>
> It's free software but it's the only software around that will drive a
> squeezebox, which he did pay for.

If he wasn't happy with the software when he bought his squeezebox, he
should have returned it for a full refund. If he was happy, he should
downgrade until his VERY IMPORTANT bug gets fixed in the current rev.
Either way, continued and unrelenting ranting at kdf and the other
volunteer developers can do nothing but harm to the slimserver user
community by driving away more skilled volunteers.

- Marc


amusing to say the least.

Rangdo
2006-07-17, 03:35
Not sure if I've missed someone say this but I've noticed the same problem today - a small handful of albums I've ripped recently have duplicate entries.

The only difference between old and new rips is I've started saving the cue file in the same folder. The only albums with dupes had a cue file, not all of the albums with a cue duped and there doesn't appear to be any obvious pattern to which ones dupe and which don't.

I've deleted the cue files from the respective album folders and the dupes appear to be gone (at least the 2 offenders that hit me today aren't duping now) :)

autopilot
2006-07-17, 05:36
Not sure if I've missed someone say this but I've noticed the same problem today - a small handful of albums I've ripped recently have duplicate entries.

The only difference between old and new rips is I've started saving the cue file in the same folder. The only albums with dupes had a cue file, not all of the albums with a cue duped and there doesn't appear to be any obvious pattern to which ones dupe and which don't.

I've deleted the cue files from the respective album folders and the dupes appear to be gone (at least the 2 offenders that hit me today aren't duping now) :)

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25313

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3716

ModelCitizen
2006-07-17, 06:13
Not sure if I've missed someone say this but I've noticed the same problem today - a small handful of albums I've ripped recently have duplicate entries.
The only difference between old and new rips is I've started saving the cue file in the same folder. The only albums with dupes had a cue file, not all of the albums with a cue duped and there doesn't appear to be any obvious pattern to which ones dupe and which don't.
I've deleted the cue files from the respective album folders and the dupes appear to be gone (at least the 2 offenders that hit me today aren't duping now) :)
Yup, SlimServer has problem with .cue files. I keep all my cue files (EAC, gaps detected, non-compliant) just in case I would like to perfectly recreate the original CD at some point. However, once ripped I rename the extension to .cue_ to stop SlimServer getting in a twist. I guess I could always stop .cue files being recognised by SlimServer in the configuration file... but I did not know this at the time I first had the problem (years ago!).
MC

Rangdo
2006-07-17, 07:58
Fair do's, thanks for the replies ;)

Shame I didn't look on the forum *before* spending an hour this morning figuring out what was causing the dupes.

MrSinatra
2006-07-17, 10:13
this may have been said already...

but when i browse artwork, if a tag of one song in an album has something different from the others, even something as small as a change of case, it shows up THREE times. one for the first similar grouping, one for the odd song, once again for the second similar grouping.

punctuation causes it too. (thats more sensible i think)

what is a compilation tag? i don't see it when i edit tags in winamp.

also, again when browsing artwork, (the only way i browse), any various album or comp album is only listed once, BUT is stated as being by whoever the last artist on an album is. clearly, not good.

ajmitchell
2006-07-19, 12:33
Anyone kow if this is corrected by 6.3.1. release?

fairyliquidizer
2006-07-22, 08:50
No it's not and I must admit that having to use the nightlys to get bug free performance when the nightlys are clearly alphas and Slimdevices warn against using them is somewhat unsatisfactory for a consumer device.

I think the people who have expressed frustration in the thread have been poorly treated. They have every right to be frustrated as this is a glaringly obvious regression in the software and should have been picked up in testing.

I love my squeezebox but am less than impressed with the slimserver software reliability.

Do we know what is being done to fix this?

Fairy

zooropa320
2006-07-23, 10:21
I saw dups in 6.2.2 and they didn't disappear after upgrading to 6.3.0 so I cleared then rescanned my entire library and the dups are gone - at least the ones which I noticed before. Worth a try if you are seeing dups now.

gutted
2006-07-24, 02:57
what is a compilation tag? i don't see it when i edit tags in winamp.

@MrSinatra: I use "MP3Tag" to edit my tags. The "COMPILATION" tag is not a "stadard" option as far as MP3Tag is concerned - but it lets me create custom tags. So I added a new tag (in fact, I think I needed to edit the name of an existing tag) and called it "COMPILATION". I then set this to have a value of "1" and re-scanned. Problem now solved for me in 6.3.0.

HTH!

ChrisOwens
2006-07-24, 09:53
Fairy,

I've been with the company since March, and have been working to build good test suites for the Squeezebox firmware and Slimserver. The 6.3.0 release was my first Slimserver release. There weren't a lot of bugs in it, but the bugs that caused duplicated album listings were extremely annoying to end-users.

As part of the QA process, I collect sample data from user-reported bugs or create my own to test for these problems in the future.

In the case of the CUE sheet album duplication issue (bug 3716), we did try to fix that bug prior to the 6.3.1 release. However, it turned out that fixing it introduced unacceptable additional instability into Slimserver, so we reverted the changes. In the end, in this case, it was not a failure to find the bug, but rather an engineering decision to release the software anyway. Quality is not just a matter of testing, but a process that involves all members of a team.

That said, we are very aware that in order to reach a market outside of our "hackerish" roots, we need to improve our Slimserver releases. With the invaluable help of you, our users, we will continue to work on it.

MrSinatra
2006-07-24, 12:20
That said, we are very aware that in order to reach a market outside of our "hackerish" roots, we need to improve our Slimserver releases. With the invaluable help of you, our users, we will continue to work on it.

thats awesome, and i'm sure it will be news to some of the old timers around here! :) don't flame me, i'm just pointing it out. ;)

btw, speaking of extremely annoying things to end users, being able to browse artwork in album title alphabetical only mode is high on the list, altho i think this has finally been fixed in the upcoming release.

also, my albums with multiple artisits say they are by the last artist listed on the CD. annoying. how does one fix that? i also will be curious to see how thats fixed in browsing artwork.

and, while i realize this may not matter in upcoming releases, in the SS "explanations" when you tell it what file to use for artwork, and it says hit "change" it makes NO MENTION WHATSOEVER that it is also necessary to do a clear and rescan!!!

talk about annoying!

don't get down though, we all love the SB... we just want to love it more. -mdw

ps. thx gutted... but i need a more "standard" solution.

Siduhe
2006-07-24, 13:01
btw, speaking of extremely annoying things to end users, being able to browse artwork in album title alphabetical only mode is high on the list, altho i think this has finally been fixed in the upcoming release.

Different options are included in 6.5 AFAIK


also, my albums with multiple artisits say they are by the last artist listed on the CD. annoying. how does one fix that? i also will be curious to see how thats fixed in browsing artwork.

Depends if you are talking about 6.3.1 or 6.5. I would try including the Compilation tag that gutted suggests and using the option "Group Compilation Albums together" - does that fix it for you in 6.3.1 ?


ps. thx gutted... but i need a more "standard" solution.

You've mentioned before that you want something that works within your existing processes, but IMHO sometimes you will need to try something new to get the results you need. You can do what gutted suggests in Mp3tag pretty easily, or you can swap to a tagging program like Tag & Rename which is a bit more "standard", and you just select all songs and tick the "Compilation" box and Save to add the relevant tag. Tag & Rename is not freeware but there is a 30 day subscription.

HTH

gutted
2006-07-24, 13:15
MrSinatra,

With MP3Tag you can filter on various things. In my library, I've got each individual disc in a folder name like <artist name> - <title>. So in my case, I just filtered the file path to include "Various Artists". That gives me all my comilation albums available for edit - then you can tag the whole lot in one go.

It's pretty cool - and it's freeware. There are loads of other tag tools available, but MP3Tag is working well for me right now.

ModelCitizen
2006-07-24, 13:33
ps. thx gutted... but i need a more "standard" solution.
Well there isn't one and as 6.5 is coming along nicely and most of the developers are working on that there is probably little point in mentioning the issue again (how many threads have there been about it recently?). Just add the tag and then go and do something constructive.

Just to make it simple for you MP3Tag can be downloaded here: http://www.mp3tag.de/en/download.html. It's powerful, easy to use and free. You add the tag to all your compilations albums by selecting View/Extended Tags from the top menu whilst selecting all the tracks you've opened and wish to add the tag to. Then you hit the little button in the middle top with the star in it and write COMPILATION in the field box and 1 in the value box. Then hit enter, wait a few secs and all is done.,
Very simple. In may not be what you consider "standard" but it's the only thing that's going to fix your problem.
MC

fairyliquidizer
2006-07-24, 14:51
Well there isn't one and as 6.5 is coming along nicely and most of the developers are working on that there is probably little point in mentioning the issue again

ModelCitizen,

This issue may not trouble you but I like to keep my tags as slim a possible and would rather it was fixed sooner and 6.5 took longer. Especially as changing my tags will trigger my incremental backup to add a new increment which will be rather large as I have a large FLAC collection.

ChrisOwens,

Thanks for the courteous reply. Sorry if I seemed hostile , I was tired when I upgraded and didn't welcome the hassle.

Best of luck with the job and remember to enjoy it. Life's a game and there's no extra time.

Fairy

ChrisOwens
2006-07-24, 15:45
No apology necessary. It's a strange job, in that many customers know Slimserver (or at least some parts of it) better than I do, still. It's an extremely complex application, with a lot of years of added features.

I take the criticism as constructively as possible. When you're selling to end-users, customer satisfaction is the primary measure of quality.

ModelCitizen
2006-07-25, 00:05
This issue may not trouble you but I like to keep my tags as slim a possible and would rather it was fixed sooner and 6.5 took longer. Especially as changing my tags will trigger my incremental backup to add a new increment which will be rather large as I have a large FLAC collection.
Yup, I had nearly 100 flac compilation disks disks to update. As I backup to another set of disks I just did the main music set and the backup at the same time, thus avoiding a large overnight backup across my network.
The whole tagging process took less than 5 minutes. Unfortunately Slimserver then took two hours to scan the changed files, but then that happened in the small hours. The pain was so mininmal it was non-existent. Probably took me longer to write this forum message.

I don't fully understand why you would want to keep your tags as Slim as possible. There doesn't seem to be a downside to increased number of tags. Replaygain, a non-standard tag, is almost indispensable. I also find adding reviews and bios into the comment field a great way to read info about the band/album on my Squeezebox as I am listening to an album in the lounge.

Anyway, each to their own I guess. I hope Slim fix the issue for you soon.

MC.

fairyliquidizer
2006-07-25, 07:29
Two reasons: I have had experience of programs complaining of non-standard tagging in the past and also because any change will be detected by my backup software and cause a needlessly bloated incremental backup. That said I gave up and did the tagging which took seconds I've just disabled my backup for now and will re-enable it once I actually add some more music.

I still think there is something wrong when I have to manually intervene to restore functionality that was previously there. Hopefully it will be fixed soon so I don't have to remember to tag future compilations manually.

Fairy

ModelCitizen
2006-07-25, 10:55
I still think there is something wrong when I have to manually intervene to restore functionality that was previously there. Hopefully it will be fixed soon so I don't have to remember to tag future compilations manually.
Fairy
Coudn't agree more, but as Slim are already very aware of the problem and it's been mentioned ad infinitum, the quick fix for happiness is to add the tag. It's simple enough to take it back off once the software has been fixed.
MC

MrSinatra
2006-07-26, 12:21
i don't think there's anything wrong w/someone mentioning it again, the more it is, the more of a priority it becomes. its good for SD to see how many people care about the issue.

since SS seems to do a scan and build its own DB, and since most people rip individual albums into album folders, can't the scan account for this? must it only read tags?

if it saw a folder where multiple artists (more than one) were in it, could it not in its own DB simply mark the album as various or compilation or whatever?

i still want SS to know who the artists are for each track, but when i browse by artwork, which will be by artist / album next release, i want all the comps grouped together.

also, someone said replay gain is not a "standard" tag... this concerns me b/c i absolutely want my mp3s to use it... i use EAC and LAME and i see in the dos window when lame is done it mentions "replay gain" but in winamp, i see no mention of this...

how do i verify that the info is in the tag? thx! -mdw

Mark Lanctot
2006-07-26, 12:39
how do i verify that the info is in the tag? thx! -mdw

LAME adds RG info to MP3s in a way hardly any program can use. See here: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=32288&st=175&p=339667&#entry339667

MP3Gain can using APEv2 tags.

foobar uses a different method. Not sure where it puts them but you can read and edit the RG tags for both methods using foobar.

Mp3tag can show you that there are APEv2 tags but I haven't found a way to get it to display the RG info. I suspect it may be able to read foobar's RG tagging method using the Extended Tags dialog box, but I don't use foobar to write RG data so I don't know.

MrSinatra
2006-07-26, 12:43
ok, but the big Q is does SS read them the way LAME inserts them?

if not, is there a bugzilla request for this to be so?

some of what you are saying is above my head... i'll check out the thread and come back.

Mark Lanctot
2006-07-26, 13:14
ok, but the big Q is does SS read them the way LAME inserts them?

if not, is there a bugzilla request for this to be so?

some of what you are saying is above my head... i'll check out the thread and come back.

When you check the thread you'll notice the LAME experts there note that LAME RG support is very, very poor, with only two little-known programs supporting it.

In fact I didn't know LAME applied RG data until I found that thread.

SS reads MP3Gain-applied RG data just fine, as well as foobar-applied RG data from what I understand. That's good enough for me.

But everyone could save a step now that it's known that LAME applies RG data all on its own.

I opened an MP3 file in a hex editor and I can't find the LAME-applied RG data. According to that thread, it should be right at the start with the LAME/INFO tag. I see what I think must be the LAME/INFO tag right at the start of the file. I definitely see the RG data in the APE tag at the end of the file though.

Volition
2006-07-27, 19:54
In Regards to this issue. Can someone summarise for me. i am still getting duplicates albums. Using 6.3.1,

Is this in bugzilla?
What bug #? (There are so many and i'm not sure which one is relevant)

Why doesn't the scanner just use the ALBUM tag and ALBUM ARTIST tag ?

To Create the album listing?

gutted
2006-07-28, 01:43
Volition - have a look here: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25708

It's a much shorter thread, so info is easier to find.