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ntom
2006-06-13, 05:49
Can anyone suggest where my problem may lie....i'm left scratching my head at the moment!!

I have been using SB3 for some time using wireless & all is fine.

Last weekend I thought i'd try out a cable connection for the heck of it to see if it sounds any different....

Installed cable -it is routed all around loft & down an outside wall -prob about 45 metres of cable (& took a few hours to install). Connect up & .... nothing!

The connection LED on my modem does not come on. So I rewired the connections ....same problem. I've tried a continuity test on pins 1,2,3 & 6 which I believe are the relevant pins & it checks out!

Plug in my RIO Karma FLAC player & it's fine, & both ethernet lamps come so cable should be OK.

Prob with SB3 maybe? No! Ive plugged SB3 into my hub using a 1m ethernet cable & it's fine.

What could be wrong.... the longer cable connects to a RIO Ok & its seen on the network. Use the SB3 & nothing.

Q: Is the SB3 ethernet connection not happy with low signal levels -whats the longest cable connection out there that works OK?? Could it be that the ethernet cable comes through the wall amongst a bit of a spaghetti of hifi cable & connections -i've done my best to re-arrange, but no joy. Tried alternate router connections & no joy....
Thought ethernet could take 100m....??

Would running alongside an aerial cable have any effect?

Anyone able to make any suggestions....??

jonheal
2006-06-13, 06:31
Can anyone suggest where my problem may lie....i'm left scratching my head at the moment!!

I have been using SB3 for some time using wireless & all is fine.

Last weekend I thought i'd try out a cable connection for the heck of it to see if it sounds any different....

Installed cable -it is routed all around loft & down an outside wall -prob about 45 metres of cable (& took a few hours to install). Connect up & .... nothing!

The connection LED on my modem does not come on. So I rewired the connections ....same problem. I've tried a continuity test on pins 1,2,3 & 6 which I believe are the relevant pins & it checks out!

Plug in my RIO Karma FLAC player & it's fine, & both ethernet lamps come so cable should be OK.

Prob with SB3 maybe? No! Ive plugged SB3 into my hub using a 1m ethernet cable & it's fine.

What could be wrong.... the longer cable connects to a RIO Ok & its seen on the network. Use the SB3 & nothing.

Q: Is the SB3 ethernet connection not happy with low signal levels -whats the longest cable connection out there that works OK?? Could it be that the ethernet cable comes through the wall amongst a bit of a spaghetti of hifi cable & connections -i've done my best to re-arrange, but no joy. Tried alternate router connections & no joy....
Thought ethernet could take 100m....??

Anyone able to make any suggestions....??
I believe you have to Setup Networking again on the Squeezebox. I think it operates only one ethernet interface at a time, either wired or wireless. As soon as you power on, press the RIGHT key to Setup Networking.

ntom
2006-06-13, 06:35
Hi. Thx for reply.

I've tried that as well...just comes back with message that ethernet is not connected!

jonheal
2006-06-13, 06:42
Hi. Thx for reply.

I've tried that as well...just comes back with message that ethernet is not connected!
Try the "Factory Reset." Hold down the PLUS button while you're powering it on. You'll have to setup networking yet again.

dave w
2006-06-13, 06:50
ntom- sure you've not made yourself a x-over cable by mistake..suggest to check your pinouts
it could be that the rio device you tried will autosense straight through or crossover cables ? have you tried a pc or laptop for example.

45m should be fine as long as you have cat5/cat5e/cat6 cabling - and don't have sharp bends or have not in some way damaged the cable (and mucked up the impedance)

the other problem could be if one of the devices nic's has gig capability which use all 4 pairs (but I doubt this).

good luck

seanadams
2006-06-13, 10:40
Check the wire colors. It should go:

Orange-white
Orange
Green-white
Blue
Blue-white
Green
Brown-white
Brown

stuorguk
2006-06-13, 14:56
I got caught out with making up my own leads. Whilst standard ethernet cables are wired one-to-one, it's important you observe which twisted pairs to use. This is especially true for data speeds above 10Mbs

JJZolx
2006-06-13, 15:41
This sounds very much like the problem described in another recent thread, where someone was unable to get their Squeezebox 3 to work over an Ethernet cable on which other devices worked fine.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24655&highlight=ethernet

JJZolx
2006-06-13, 15:44
Check the wire colors. It should go:

Orange-white
Orange
Green-white
Blue
Blue-white
Green
Brown-white
Brown
That's 568B. There's also 568A, which is equally valid. The important thing is that both ends of the run must be wired the same.

568A:

Green-white
Green
Orange-white
Blue
Blue-white
Orange
Brown-white
Brown

seanadams
2006-06-13, 16:18
That's 568B. There's also 568A, which is equally valid.


You're right - I was just trying to keep it simple. I've only ever encountered T568A in the wild at one data center. It is very rare.



The important thing is that both ends of the run must be wired the same.


Actually, the issue in this case is not whether they're wired the same (we know it works with a different device, presumably at 10Mbps), but that the pairing isn't messed up (which would explain failure at 100Mbps).

Usually failure at long lengths and/or higher speeds is caused by #4 and #6 transposed on both ends, a common mistake which standard cable testers will not reveal as a fault.

JJZolx
2006-06-13, 17:24
Actually, the issue in this case is not whether they're wired the same (we know it works with a different device, presumably at 10Mbps), but that the pairing isn't messed up (which would explain failure at 100Mbps).
But shouldn't the Squeezebox auto-negotiate the connection down to 10Mbps if 100Mpbs fails?


Usually failure at long lengths and/or higher speeds is caused by #4 and #6 transposed on both ends, a common mistake which standard cable testers will not reveal as a fault.
True. If you're not following one of the standards, that's probably the most common way to incorrectly wire the jacks or plugs.

If 10Mbps is working, but 100Mbps is not, there could be a host of problems - too tight of a radius in a cable bend, running the cable parallel to electrical wiring, running too near fluorescent light fixtures, nailing or stapling through the cable.

I've posted this before, but here's my little spiel on running cabling:

For a long, permanent run of Cat5/5e/6, use solid core cabling, not stranded core. Terminate both ends of the cable with _jacks_, not plugs. Then use patch cables at either end betwen the jack and the equipment - in this case the SB at one and the router/switch at the other. Do NOT make patch cables yourself with plugs and a crimper - they're far harder to make correctly than you'd imagine, and preassembled patch cables are both inexpensive and available in many lengths. Solid core cabling, jacks, jack housings (or wall plates) are commonly available at places like Home Depot. Depending on the type of jack you buy, you may need an inexpensive punch down tool, or you can get by using a knife. Often the tool is packaged with the jack itself. The jacks are usually color coded with both 568A and 568B wiring patterns - just choose one and stick to it on all jacks that you wire.

As far as running the cable... Don't kink the cable. Don't crimp it excessively with staples, tacks or other fasteners. Avoid sharp bends wherever you have to go around a corner. Avoid running data cabling near electrical cabling, but if you need to cross an electrical cable, do so at a 90 degree angle. Keep data cabling away from flourescent lighting fixtures. Untwist the colored wire pairs for no more than an inch or so from where they're punched down in the jacks.

Ben Sandee
2006-06-13, 17:36
On 6/13/06, JJZolx <JJZolx.29d8vn1150244701 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
wrote:
>
>
> seanadams Wrote:
> > Actually, the issue in this case is not whether they're wired the same
> > (we know it works with a different device, presumably at 10Mbps), but
> > that the pairing isn't messed up (which would explain failure at
> > 100Mbps).
> But shouldn't the Squeezebox auto-negotiate the connection down to
> 10Mbps if 100Mpbs fails?
>
> > Usually failure at long lengths and/or higher speeds is caused by #4 and
> > #6 transposed on both ends, a common mistake which standard cable
> > testers will not reveal as a fault.
> True. If you're not following one of the standards, that's probably
> the most common way to incorrectly wire the jacks or plugs.
>
> If 10Mbps is working, but 100Mbps is not, there could be a host of
> problems - too tight of a radius in a cable bend, running the cable
> parallel to electrical wiring, running too near fluorescent light
> fixtures, nailing or stapling through the cable.
>
> I've posted this before, but here's my little spiel on running
> cabling:


<snip>

Are you two done with your nerd showdown now? I declare Sean the winner
because his company owns the forums/mailing list.

Ben

JJZolx
2006-06-13, 17:50
Are you two done with your nerd showdown now? I declare Sean the winner
because his company owns the forums/mailing list.
I did a quick search, but couldn't find a good cabling 101 guide or I'd have just posted a link. I know that if I were going to spend several hours running a 45 meter cable all over creation, I'd rather do it with some degree of confidence that it's going to work when I'm finished.

seanadams
2006-06-13, 18:43
But shouldn't the Squeezebox auto-negotiate the connection down to 10Mbps if 100Mpbs fails?

It will certainly auto-negotiate to 10Mbps if the other end does not _support_ 100Mbps. As for a noisy cable, I would have to dig into the PHY docs and driver code to figure out what is supposed to happen, and if it is configurable. I know that it does not always drop to 10Mbps automatically - probably if the cable is "borderline" then it will still try to keep the link at 100.

JJZolx
2006-06-14, 14:10
It will certainly auto-negotiate to 10Mbps if the other end does not _support_ 100Mbps. As for a noisy cable, I would have to dig into the PHY docs and driver code to figure out what is supposed to happen, and if it is configurable. I know that it does not always drop to 10Mbps automatically - probably if the cable is "borderline" then it will still try to keep the link at 100.
Might be nice to be able to fix the speed and duplex of the Ethernet port of the Squeezebox. Obviously, not all devices offer this ability, particularly the unmanaged switches in most home network routers, so it would be a plus to be able handle it on the Squeezebox end. When it's doable, I've seen quite a few sketchy Ethernet connections that were stabilized by fixing the speed at 100Mbps. I don't always know why, but I think it has less to do with poor cabling than it does incompatibilities in the autonegotion process.