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77dzu
2006-05-03, 09:47
Sean
I had wireless SB3 but I used wired only. Plan to do some mods on analog circuit soon and was thinking about permanently remove the wireless device and two antennas from the SB3. Does it affect my wired network, circuit or any functionality of the SB3?

mfieger
2006-05-03, 09:58
Removing the wireless card does not affect the wired network, you simply loose the wireless capabilities. Don't remove the antennas, just put electrical tape around the plugs. The metal in the antenna element is very thin, and firmly attached to the tape. You might damage the antenna, and never be able to find a replacement.

77dzu
2006-05-03, 10:24
mfieger
Thanks,

sopiblack
2009-03-08, 07:02
Sean
I had wireless SB3 but I used wired only. Plan to do some mods on analog circuit soon and was thinking about permanently remove the wireless device and two antennas from the SB3. Does it affect my wired network, circuit or any functionality of the SB3?

Hi i try to remove the wireless card, but after this my sqzbox 3, vas dead, so i insert the wireless card again, and it works again, maybe it cant play whitout the card?

sopiblack
2009-03-15, 12:55
Removing the wireless card does not affect the wired network, you simply loose the wireless capabilities. Don't remove the antennas, just put electrical tape around the plugs. The metal in the antenna element is very thin, and firmly attached to the tape. You might damage the antenna, and never be able to find a replacement.

You don`t believe this, i remove the wireless card and the antennas. I use a cat6a cable, and it makes a big different sound, so just try this. I have tried wireless, but even if i crypt it i have problems. Do you now, can i buy a 300mps wireless card to my sqzbox 3 instead off the 54 mps card.

Phil Leigh
2009-03-16, 11:33
You don`t believe this, i remove the wireless card and the antennas. I use a cat6a cable, and it makes a big different sound, so just try this. I have tried wireless, but even if i crypt it i have problems. Do you now, can i buy a 300mps wireless card to my sqzbox 3 instead off the 54 mps card.

I don't believe it. I've tested the same box wireless vs wired and there is NO difference in the audio out quality from either digital or analogue.

sopiblack
2009-03-21, 05:34
I have a modified sqezzebox3 with a good analog power supply. You dont believe it. It makes a much cleaner sound with cat6a cable i think the answer is lover noise because cat6a is a shielded cable, it makes a big different in my setup.

Phil Leigh
2009-03-21, 09:18
I have a modified sqezzebox3 with a good analog power supply. You dont believe it. It makes a much cleaner sound with cat6a cable i think the answer is lover noise because cat6a is a shielded cable, it makes a big different in my setup.

Then something is wrong with your setup. Maybe your amp or audio cabling is faulty.

DCtoDaylight
2009-03-30, 10:43
It makes a much cleaner sound with cat6a cable i think the answer is lover noise because cat6a is a shielded cable, it makes a big different in my setup.

FWIW, not all Cat 6a is shielded... Like Cat 5, shielding is optional, and is generally only required in very noisy (ie industrial) environments. However, it does no harm, so if it makes you happy, then by all means use it!

seanadams
2009-03-30, 11:10
FWIW, not all Cat 6a is shielded... Like Cat 5, shielding is optional, and is generally only required in very noisy (ie industrial) environments. However, it does no harm, so if it makes you happy, then by all means use it!

That's incorrect. Ethernet uses balanced, transformer-isolated signalling and is designed for unshielded cable. Using shielded cable can cause serious ground loop problems and will not improve EMI. In fact it will increase noise susceptibility because anything picked up on the shield conductor will get delivered to the endpoint, bypassing the transformer isolation which would otherwise provide a high degree of common mode noise rejection.

Just because the stuff is available and expensive doesn't mean it's a good idea.

sopiblack
2009-04-10, 05:22
That's incorrect. Ethernet uses balanced, transformer-isolated signalling and is designed for unshielded cable. Using shielded cable can cause serious ground loop problems and will not improve EMI. In fact it will increase noise susceptibility because anything picked up on the shield conductor will get delivered to the endpoint, bypassing the transformer isolation which would otherwise provide a high degree of common mode noise rejection.

Just because the stuff is available and expensive doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Another friend got the same result as me, so just give it a try, he use the sonos system. I use the cat5e cable before, and with the cat5e cable the sound vas hard and crispy.And there vas a ringing in the top, the sound with the cat6a cable is more soft, it plays more music, i can hear everything in my setup, i have build my loudspeakers together with a danish hifi guru Steen Duelund, and i use a ezdac, and i use 4 ncd1 digital amplifiers, well i can`t convince you if you don`t believe me.

funkstar
2009-04-10, 06:02
I use the cat5e cable before, and with the cat5e cable the sound vas hard and crispy.And there vas a ringing in the top, the sound with the cat6a cable is more soft, it plays more music, i can hear everything in my setup,
Web pages are much brighter and load faster, I see more internets when I use Cat6 cable vs regular Cat5e. The spelling in my Word documents also improves and I have more money in my Excel ballance sheets too. i believe it is so, so it must be true.

nacmacfeegle
2009-04-10, 08:12
Funky,
My office uses cat5 which results in fog in Aberdeen, like today, but when I get home to Auchenblae and access my network over cat6 there is sunshine.
Coincidence? I don't think so......

Phil Leigh
2009-04-10, 09:24
My cat will not accept shielding, he scratches at it.

funkstar
2009-04-11, 04:38
Funky,
My office uses cat5 which results in fog in Aberdeen, like today, but when I get home to Auchenblae and access my network over cat6 there is sunshine.
Coincidence? I don't think so......
So it's your fault it was a horrible day yesterday!

Obviously it's sunny here today as your office is closed, I'm starting to agree with your thinking on the issue.

seanadams
2009-04-11, 14:28
Another friend got the same result as me, so just give it a try, he use the sonos system. I use the cat5e cable before, and with the cat5e cable the sound vas hard and crispy.And there vas a ringing in the top, the sound with the cat6a cable is more soft, it plays more music, i can hear everything in my setup, i have build my loudspeakers together with a danish hifi guru Steen Duelund, and i use a ezdac, and i use 4 ncd1 digital amplifiers, well i can`t convince you if you don`t believe me.

Which way did you run the cable? I know that on some high end cables (for example the Denon ethernet cable) they will have arrows to tell you which way the signal needs to go. On most Cat5/5e/6 boxed cable there will be per-foot markings so you know how much is left in the box. I would assume that the marking should be either ascending or descending as you go towards the Squeezebox but I'm not sure which way is best. If I'm going to test with different cable I would like to know which way you did it, otherwise I'm afraid the sound quality improvement will not be able to go in the right direction. Thanks.

Andy8421
2009-04-11, 23:15
Sean, or any other knowledgable person,

I saw your note on shielded vs unshielded ethernet. Just about to recable my house and was planning on cat-6 FTP (foil shielded twisted pair). Cat-6 connectors are available shielded, as are patch cables. So it is possible to maintain screen continuity throughout the system. Understand your comment about common-mode noise - but if you ground the shield at one end of the cable only (perhaps a star arrangement where all cables are grounded at the patch panel and the distant ends are unconnected) wont you be better off than using unshieded cable?

I would have thought that this would have been particularly the case where multiple cables where run bunched together. The 'rate of twist' of similar pairs in adjacent cables whould match alowing increased crosstalk?

Perhaps if anyone has a link to a decent web resource on Cat-6 ethernet cabling infrastructure design they could post it and I could do some research, rather than have me waste everyones time on this forum.

I only want to recable once, but there again, I have said that before....

Thanks in advance for any response.

Phil Leigh
2009-04-11, 23:39
Sean, or any other knowledgable person,

I saw your note on shielded vs unshielded ethernet. Just about to recable my house and was planning on cat-6 FTP (foil shielded twisted pair). Cat-6 connectors are available shielded, as are patch cables. So it is possible to maintain screen continuity throughout the system. Understand your comment about common-mode noise - but if you ground the shield at one end of the cable only (perhaps a star arrangement where all cables are grounded at the patch panel and the distant ends are unconnected) wont you be better off than using unshieded cable?

I would have thought that this would have been particularly the case where multiple cables where run bunched together. The 'rate of twist' of similar pairs in adjacent cables whould match alowing increased crosstalk?

Perhaps if anyone has a link to a decent web resource on Cat-6 ethernet cabling infrastructure design they could post it and I could do some research, rather then guessing or wasting everyones time on this forum.

I only want to recable once, but there again, I have said that before....

Thanks in advance for any response.

http://www.lynxdatacabling.co.uk/documents/Cat6A.pdf

If you are planning on installing a data centre in your house then cat6a might be useful for a 10Gbe lan... otherwise no, it's just an overkill waste of money. The earthing connections required are NOT straightforward as you will discover through more research.

The purpose of the screening and internal config is to lower Alien Crosstalk so that 10Gbe over copper can work. You will note that the cable has a large minimum bend radius that limits the routing and trunking required - may not be achievable outside of a purpose-built computer room...

None of this has anything to do with SB performance - especially audio playback quality!.

sopiblack
2009-04-12, 03:29
Which way did you run the cable? I know that on some high end cables (for example the Denon ethernet cable) they will have arrows to tell you which way the signal needs to go. On most Cat5/5e/6 boxed cable there will be per-foot markings so you know how much is left in the box. I would assume that the marking should be either ascending or descending as you go towards the Squeezebox but I'm not sure which way is best. If I'm going to test with different cable I would like to know which way you did it, otherwise I'm afraid the sound quality improvement will not be able to go in the right direction. Thanks.

Hi Sean wee have only tested the cable in one vay from the squezzebox to the router. the lenght is 13 mtr, i can tell you i am very serious, and the cable is from a danish firm who test those cables. my setup is a very high quality, when i heard squezzebox3 for the first time the sound vas very flat, and i need to do some modifikations better caps Blackgate fk and a selected dacic, and a good analog power supply, and now i use ezdac spec build. my signal and loudspeaker cables is of pure silver and silk as isolator, i hope it helps you

funkstar
2009-04-12, 11:45
Hi Sean wee have only tested the cable in one vay from the squezzebox to the router. the lenght is 13 mtr, i can tell you i am very serious, and the cable is from a danish firm who test those cables. my setup is a very high quality, when i heard squezzebox3 for the first time the sound vas very flat, and i need to do some modifikations better caps Blackgate fk and a selected dacic, and a good analog power supply, and now i use ezdac spec build. my signal and loudspeaker cables is of pure silver and silk as isolator, i hope it helps you
Or instead of using a consumer based player that costs a couple of hundred Euros and spending hundreds more on modifications, you should get a Transporter and go from there.

I'm very pleased that a Danish company is testing them. You can't trust any other country to test them properly for magic.

Andy8421
2009-04-12, 21:57
For those interested, I found this link:

http://www.lanshack.com/Cat6a.aspx

While I do agree with the 'who needs 10Gb/s capability in their house', 5 years ago I didn't think anyone would ever need 100Mb/s and 5 years before that, I couldn't understand why anyone would want a home network at all. Given the hassle associated with cabling, I want to future proof as much as possible.

Sean - the Lanshack article I linked to above recommends Cat6a STP and also multiple earthing points. Have they got this wrong?

On a different subject, (and I have unfortunately lost the link), I recall a long article on the problems with tired electrons in speaker cables. Many power amplifiers have capacitor coupled output stages, and therefore no DC flows in the speaker cables. As a result, many electrons rush backward and forward, but never get to leave the cable. As we all know, this can lead to electron fatigue, with the resultant reduction in system fidelity. The article then went on to calculate how long it would take to 'change the electrons' in the cable by connecting a 12v car battery and 50W headlight bulb to the cable. I am afraid I haven't performed any A/B tests with different brands of headlight bulb yet, but as soon as I do, I will post the results.

seanadams
2009-04-12, 23:42
Sean - the Lanshack article I linked to above recommends Cat6a STP and also multiple earthing points. Have they got this wrong?

I wouldn't say they have it entirely wrong but it depends what you're trying to accomplish. What's best for a crowded data center is not likely to be the best idea for the home. Yes, the point of the shielding is to reduce crosstalk with adjacent cables. However this only comes into play where you have many cables bundled close together operating at 10Gbps+. Except for that scenario, and especially where you're concerned about ground loops and EMI at lower frequencies, I'd consider it a liability.

While I generally subscribe to the mindset of "cable is cheap, make the investment now because it's easier than doing it after the sheetrock is up", this can be taken to an extreme, and I think installing cat6(a) throughout the home is silly. I've done it, but I've since got tired of dealing with the stuff and usually run 5e. If It's a long or difficult run I might try to run a single spare CAT6 along with a bundle of 5e, but looking at the big picture I have realized that I still have yet to actually need a 10Gbps link for _anything_, and it might be years before I do. Maybe an HDMI-over-cat6 application might be useful, but I'd be better off pulling that cable when I actually need it than to preemptively run CAT6 everywhere just in case.

Most people don't realize that you can't install CAT6 the same as other copper wiring. There are strict constraints on bend radius, bundling techniques, pulling tension, termination techniques, etc. There's no point installing it unless you're actually going to adhere to all that, and it can be very difficult to do in a home environment where you don't have wide unobstructed cable runways everywhere.

sopiblack
2009-04-13, 03:14
Or instead of using a consumer based player that costs a couple of hundred Euros and spending hundreds more on modifications, you should get a Transporter and go from there.

I'm very pleased that a Danish company is testing them. You can't trust any other country to test them properly for magic.

Hi i can tell you, i have heard the transporter, but after my modifikations of squezzebox3 it sounds better than the transporter i have the transporter in a week, it vas switched on so it vas clear for test, but still after the burning in it vas hard in the sound, the importer of the transporter vas impressed after my modifikations my squezzebox vas more varm and plays more music.

pippin
2009-04-13, 03:22
after my modifikations my squezzebox vas more varm and plays more music.

Of course, if it has to play more music, it gets more warm.

funkstar
2009-04-13, 03:56
Hi i can tell you, i have heard the transporter, but after my modifikations of squezzebox3 it sounds better than the transporter i have the transporter in a week, it vas switched on so it vas clear for test, but still after the burning in it vas hard in the sound, the importer of the transporter vas impressed after my modifikations my squezzebox vas more varm and plays more music.
Perhaps you should have bought the Transporter a jumper. Or turned the heating up. I find giving it a nice cup of tea helps things too.

Phil Leigh
2009-04-13, 23:12
Perhaps you should have bought the Transporter a jumper. Or turned the heating up. I find giving it a nice cup of tea helps things too.

Doesn't the TP have internal jumpers?

funkstar
2009-04-14, 01:10
Doesn't the TP have internal jumpers?
You can never have too many jumpers. Cardigans are good too.

Phil Leigh
2009-04-14, 08:13
You can never have too many jumpers. Cardigans are good too.
Pullovers?

funkstar
2009-04-15, 02:04
Pullovers?
And them :)

servies
2009-04-16, 23:33
This thread is getting pretty silly....

Phil Leigh
2009-04-17, 00:25
This thread is getting pretty silly....

Actually, that's because it started silly.
1) removing the wi-fi doesn't affect the audio
2) using cat6a ethernet doesn't affect the audio

If either of the above statements is demonstrably untrue in a particular system then that system needs to be looked at carefully for the true cause - for example poor shielding or RFI/EMI rejection, faulty spdif transformers or cables, earth loops, poor PSU design, poor mains quality etc etc

sopiblack
2009-04-17, 06:52
This thread is getting pretty silly....
You are right, and i don`t understand why not the moderator of this forum is going to stop theese 2 guys, they make fun of everything, and keept the serious people away.

Phil Leigh
2009-04-17, 07:54
You are right, and i don`t understand why not the moderator of this forum is going to stop theese 2 guys, they make fun of everything, and keept the serious people away.

These would be the "serious people" who claim that Cat6a cable is beneficial to sound quality, yes?

funkstar
2009-04-17, 14:24
These would be the "serious people" who claim that Cat6a cable is beneficial to sound quality, yes?
But only if it's plugged in the right way!!!