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View Full Version : Ugraded to SB3 from SB2 - cant connect...



Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 07:36
My shiny WIRED SB3 arrived - I unplugged my (working absolutely perfectly - 6.2.2/firmware 35) WIRED SB2 and plugged in the SB3...usual setup done via the remote...refuses to connect. It is talking to the Gateway - I can set a static IP or get one from DHCP - doesn't make any difference.
Obviously the SB3 is running FW 26 as shipped.
Any ideas what to try next?
Many thanks
Phil

PS if I unplug the SB3 and put the SB2 back it works fine as before...and yes I did tell the server to forget the (SB2) player before I tried to connect the SB3

aubuti
2006-04-07, 07:40
No guarantees here, but you did say "any ideas".... When you hook up the SB3 try holding down the Brightness button on the remote to update the firmware to match your SS. I would think that the SB3 would play even with the old firmware, but it's worth a shot.

Mark Lanctot
2006-04-07, 07:43
Do you have URL blocking activated in SlimServer - Server Settings - Security?

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 07:46
blocking is off - will try the brightness thing...
By the way - I can't ping the SB3 even though it has a valid IP adr on my network...

Mark Lanctot
2006-04-07, 07:48
Can you connect to SqueezeNetwork?

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 07:55
yes I can connect to SQN

snarlydwarf
2006-04-07, 07:59
If I remember right, Windows has an insanely long ARP cache and doesn't always learn when a MAC changes.

Try, from a "command window": netsh interface ip delete arpcache

That will make Windows forget any MAC id's it knows and relearn them if it's actually talking to a machine.

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 08:08
cleared the arp cache - still no joy...

snarlydwarf
2006-04-07, 08:23
Wow, that's baffling: the NIC must be working or you couldn't use SQN.

I would think MAC filtering at the router wouldn't be the problem, or SQN wouldn't work either....

It just doesn't want to talk to the PC, even for ping...

I'm out of ideas for now. :/

Mark Lanctot
2006-04-07, 09:01
You indicate that it got a proper IP address, both statically and by DHCP.

Are you sure? You wouldn't have a subnet problem like this would you?

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=100402&postcount=10

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 09:02
OK - can't upgrade the firmware as I have no connectivity between the SB3 and the Slimserver PC.


Squeezenetwork is working perfectly...do I guess the SB3 is OK?
Must be some router-based problem...

snarlydwarf
2006-04-07, 09:27
Well, I would actually suspect the PC more than the router. (Since this is wired, we can rule out all the signal strength/quality differences, encryption settings and such.)

Why do I suspect the PC?

Well, the SB3 connects to SQN, which means the SB3 can communicate fine with the router to get to the 'net. So there is a working path between the SB3 and the router.

It sounds to me, since you can't ping the SB3 from the PC, that for some mysterious reason, at the network level the PC isn't happy with the SB3. Hence why I thought perhaps it was the ARP cache: if it was still using the MAC address of the SB3, it would be sending pings to the SB2 that you unplugged, and never get an answer.

Although Mark has a point: it seems some routers are smarter than people and work even when they shouldn't. A network setup error (like the PC on the wrong network) that should break things... mostly works. Though I don't know why that would change when you plugged an SB3 into the same cable...

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 09:58
hmmm - it's got me baffled too.
One other thing to throw into the mix - I've been trying to setup a wireless print server over the last few days and that gets a DHCP IP OK too...but I can't ping that either, and I can't access the HTML config app at the root IP address (hence I can't configure the wretched thing...)

This looks connected to me somehow...


my (SlimServer PC) ipconfig looks like this:

C:\Documents and Settings\Phil>ipconfig

Windows IP Configuration


Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 10:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
192.168.1.1

C:\Documents and Settings\Phil>

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 10:03
just plugged the sb2 back in and it started playing! ???

do I need to delete something on the slimserver side?

Mark Lanctot
2006-04-07, 10:09
hmmm - it's got me baffled too.
One other thing to throw into the mix - I've been trying to setup a wireless print server over the last few days and that gets a DHCP IP OK too...but I can't ping that either, and I can't access the HTML config app at the root IP address (hence I can't configure the wretched thing...)

This looks connected to me somehow...

Yes, it looks like something in your router broke.

Reset the router back to factory defaults?

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 10:11
hmmm - that's a drastic measure - but it may be the answer...
I will have to note down all of the settings first...there goes another evening :o)

Mark Lanctot
2006-04-07, 10:15
hmmm - that's a drastic measure - but it may be the answer...
I will have to note down all of the settings first...there goes another evening :o)

If it's a wired router, shouldn't be too difficult...

Set WAN, almost always DHCP.

Set DNS server, almost always automatically.

Set time, almost always automatically from WAN.

Set LAN, could keep at default.

Enable/disable DHCP, keep at default if you want DHCP.

Enable/disable router firewall, port forwarding, etc.

In fact your router is more or less at factory default right now.

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 10:26
actualy its a wireless router/adsl combo - its just that my sb is wired into it...

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 10:35
could this problem be caused by a mixture of static & dynamic ip's? (there is no conflict in the ranges...)

Mark Lanctot
2006-04-07, 10:47
could this problem be caused by a mixture of static & dynamic ip's? (there is no conflict in the ranges...)

Shouldn't be, but it doesn't hurt to switch entirely to one or the other before resetting the router to try it out.

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 11:03
reset the router to factory defaults - no change.

My daughter has just turned on her wireless laptop to connect to the internet (via the router)...and I notice I can't ping her either (although I can see she is getting a dynamic IP from the router, and obviously her internet works - otherwise my life wouldn't be worth living!).

There seems to be a pattern here.

If I plug the old SB 2 in it works fine and I can ping it. I can't ping anything else - (except the router) including the new SB3...

looks like the pinging problem is related to the MAC ID of what I am trying to ping...?

I've flushed the ARP cache to no effect...

Mark Lanctot
2006-04-07, 11:11
Your router wouldn't have an "AP Isolation" setting would it?

Mine does (Linksys WRT54G with DD-WRT firmware), although it's limited to wireless clients:


AP Isolation
The default value is Off. This setting isolates wireless clients so access to and from other wireless clients are stopped.

It's something internally in your router. All file transfer activity is likely blocked. It's like your LAN ports are not transferring data to and from each other, but since your SB2 works, this worked at one time.

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 11:19
Yes that fits what I am seeing - "what can ping what" seems to be a bit of a mystery on my network at the moment...

I don't have an AP isolation setting.

This gets weirder by the minute...
Just fired up another wireless laptop...

I've now got pairs of (wireless) machines that can ping one way but not the other!!!...


...and yes, the problem seems to be that the router is not passing anything between its switch ports - except for my old SB2...presumably if I could find out why it is allowing that I could fix the problem?

Are there any network debug tools that could help me?

Mark Lanctot
2006-04-07, 11:21
Are there any network debug tools that could help me?

A packet sniffer like Ethereal (http://www.ethereal.com/), although that's pretty advanced stuff.

I've never played with a packet sniffer before so I don't know what you should be looking for, although there are several knowledgeable users around here.

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 11:36
I've got Ethereal - all I am seeing on there at the moment is lots of ARP requests...
specifically, I can see my SB3 asking where the Slimserver PC is...(but of course for some reason it is getting no response)

Mark Lanctot
2006-04-07, 11:44
I've got Ethereal - all I am seeing on there at the moment is lots of ARP requests...

Any responses? Probably not.

This has prompted me to start playing around with Ethereal. Every once in a while I see:

192.168.1.7 [my SB3] | Broadcast | ARP | Who has 192.168.1.3 [my SlimServer PC]? Tell 192.168.1.7

then a few msec later:

192.168.1.3 | 192.168.1.7 | ARP | 192.168.1.3 is at <SlimServer PC NIC MAC>

Same thing with my SB2. Seems to be every 30 seconds or so.

snarlydwarf
2006-04-07, 11:51
I've got Ethereal - all I am seeing on there at the moment is lots of ARP requests...
specifically, I can see my SB3 asking where the Slimserver PC is...(but of course for some reason it is getting no response)

Well that's the problem there then... it's the PC (assuming you're running ethereal on the same PC as slimserver).

The way ARP works is pretty much like Mark has: at the ethernet layer, the hardware doesn't care about IP numbers, it just cares about MAC addresses.

So for two machines to connect at an IP layer, they need to know the MAC address of each other.

If the PC never answers and says, "Hey, that's me! I'm 192.168.1.3 and my MAC is 00:DE:AD:BE:EF:00!" Then (assuming, again, that ethereal is running on that PC), the PC isn't answering ARPs for some reason.

Why it wants to respond to the SB2, but nothing else, not even the laptop... is weird. It sounds like some firewall or something that insists on filtering by MAC... but on the PC, since it -is- appearing on the PC's ethernet port... just being discarded.

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 12:21
looks like it is answering - but with the wrong information...I need to spend some time staring at these Ethereal captures...

Mark Lanctot
2006-04-07, 12:28
looks like it is answering - but with the wrong information...I need to spend some time staring at these Ethereal captures...

Could it be your Windows IP stack/Winsock is broken?

I see lots of stack repair utilities out there on the Internet.

I think general Internet connectivity would be disrupted though, and repairing it is quite drastic.

Grab your Windows XP install CD, go to Start - Settings - Network Connections - Local Area Connection - Properties.

Uninstall TCP/IP by highlighting it, then pressing the Uninstall button. Then reinstall it by pressing the Install... button. Install Protocol - TCP/IP. It might ask for your installation CD when you press OK.

JJZolx
2006-04-07, 12:53
I'd give the SB3 a different IP address than the old SB2. No reason to have the server 'forget' the old SB2, though - both should work fine simultaneously on the network, or alone.

I would try the following, testing after each step to see if the new SB3 connects.

- If you have a separate Ethernet switch, power it down and back up again.

- Power down your router and power it up again.

- Reboot your Slim Server machine.

Step through the network setup of the SB3 each time, even if you change no settings it may help the device find the server.

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 12:53
getting even worse...

when I try and connect the SB3 it sends a SLIMP3 discovery request to 255.255.255.255 and gets the response from source 192.168.1.100 (my Slimserver PC):

SERVER ADDRESS:116.117.100,105

!!!!! - where is it getting that from?

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 13:12
right - my sb2 was 192.168.1.101
I changed my sb3 to be 102...

however, the "who is" ARP request are still coming from "101" - but the SLIMP3 requests are coming from 102 !!!!
There is no "101" - aaaaargh

I can't ping either "101" or 102 from 100...

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 13:28
Losing my marbles...

Plugged both sb's in to the router and "setup networking"...noticed one difference...is this a clue?

When I get to the "Select a music source" screen, the SB2 has 4 choices, the first of which is Studio(192.168.1.100), whereas the SB3 only has 3 choices, the first of which is
192.168.1.100(192.168.1.100)

??????????

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 13:32
and finally...
I#m seeing "who is" ARP requests saying:
Source:....101 Who has ....100, Tell ....102

Huh?
Surely that can't be right?

JJZolx
2006-04-07, 13:43
Hmmm, makes you wonder if 6.2.2 is even compatible with firmware 26... Given the way Slim Devices is releasing firmware tied to server versions, this doesn't seem unreasonable.

You might have to install Slim Server 6.2.1 just to connect and upgrade the firmware of the Squeezebox3 you just bought. That'll probably entail wiping your database out and rescanning your library when Slim Server starts up. Then reinstall 6.2.2, wipe database, rescan. Rinse and repeat... All to get back to where you started.

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 13:51
Jim - that's a good point. I'll try that.
Phil

snarlydwarf
2006-04-07, 13:54
and finally...
I#m seeing "who is" ARP requests saying:
Source:....101 Who has ....100, Tell ....102

Huh?
Surely that can't be right?

O.o Did numbers change here?

100 = PC, 101 = SB2, 102 = SB3, right?

So the SB2 is arping but thinks it has 102?

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 13:59
went back to 6.2.1 - no joy (worth a try)

Snarlydwarf...yes that is right

Slimserver PC = 100
SB2 = 101
SB3 = 102

something is confused (apart from me!)

snarlydwarf
2006-04-07, 14:07
Then it's your SB2 that is actually confused and trying to steal packets from the SB3.

Try doing a factory reset on it: hold down 'Add' on the remote while powercycling the SB2.

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 14:09
but...if I unplug the sb2, the sb3 still doesn't work...

snarlydwarf
2006-04-07, 14:22
Well, which is plugged in when you see the miscreant ARP?

Whichever one is doing that is confused and messing up the other and quite likely itself.

Phil Leigh
2006-04-07, 15:04
only see the bad arping when both are plugged in - if SB2 on its own then all is fine - if SB2 & SB3 then SB2 works but not SB3, SB3 on its own doesn't work
In other words, SB2 ALWAYS works perfectly, SB3 never works...

snarlydwarf
2006-04-07, 15:48
Unplug the SB2, use the same cable that it is using, and plug the SB3 into that...

What do the ARPs say then?

Phil Leigh
2006-04-08, 00:48
slept on this all night...
This morning I stripped everything down to a PC(NIC)-5-port hub-SB3 (no router...)
Still same problem - SB 2 can connect fine, SB3 can't.

They are arping correctly, but the SB3 doesn't appear to respond and establish any kind of TCP conversation with SlimServer, whereas the SB2 is fine.

Is it possible that the SB3 firmware is corrupt?
Is there any way to force a firmware upgrade without a TCP connection (I realise this is unlikely...)
I really don't want to send the SB3 back, but it just won't work...

I've never had this kind of problem with my SB1 or 2 before.
Thanks to everyone for your help so far. Anyone from SD care to comment?

Thanks
Phil

I've emailed support about this...but my mails are returned as undeliverable...

Phil Leigh
2006-04-08, 04:26
put slimserver on laptop, plugged laptop and sb3 into hub - all works - even upgraded fimware to 35...
Conclusions so far - not the SB3, not the router - must be my Slimserver main PC
It doesn't respond to any pings - but it connects to the router fine.
Its ARP cache is also fine.
I can't see any pings coming in on Ethereal.
What could be blocking teh NIC?

Phil Leigh
2006-04-09, 06:48
Success!!!

changed the MAC of the SB3 to that of the SB2 - now works!
somewhere the SB2 mac address must be cached...

Thanks for all of your help.

my Slimserver PC wired to my router/gateway/adsl modem can talk to the SB3 (also wired).

I still have the problem that my wired network and wireless devices can only talk amongst themselves but not to each other...even though they are all connect to the same router - obviously my understanding of what a router is supposed to do is deeply flawed...

JJZolx
2006-04-09, 10:49
Success!!!

changed the MAC of the SB3 to that of the SB2 - now works!
somewhere the SB2 mac address must be cached...
I dunno, it doesn't sound like success to me to have to use a kludge like that. It still sounds like something is fundamentally screwed up with your server machine, or maybe the network.


my Slimserver PC wired to my router/gateway/adsl modem can talk to the SB3 (also wired).

I still have the problem that my wired network and wireless devices can only talk amongst themselves but not to each other...even though they are all connect to the same router - obviously my understanding of what a router is supposed to do is deeply flawed...
If the devices are all on the same subnet then there's no routing involved. Passing traffic on the subnet would be a function of only the switch in your router/gateway/modem.

What do you mean they "can only talk amongst themselves" but "not to each other"? Isn't that the same thing? So it sounds like you have two problems? If the laptop fixed the Slim Server to SB3 issue, then it sounds like that's a problem with the Slim Server machine. If you're having other problems on your network they're not likely to be related to the PC.

You might try borrowing a switch or hub from someone and seeing if that cures the network problems. Even if it means disconnecting everything from the Internet, for testing purposes plug everything into the switch and see if the network behaves as you expect. Did you screw with many of the router settings? Maybe a factory reset would be in order.

snarlydwarf
2006-04-09, 11:02
And it doesn't explain the oddity of the laptop and the PC not connecting to each other, nor of the print server not connecting.

Something is seriously confused on that network.

Did you turn MAC filtering on in the router? (Though that would break Squeezenetwork if it was the cause...)

Phil Leigh
2006-04-10, 10:09
Sorry - in my excitement at getting the SB3 working after 2 days of hair-pulling I got a bit "dazed and confused".

I am convinced something is wrong in my network but everything I've checked looks ok. I lack the in-depth knowledge of networks to really bottom this out.
My conclusion - based on endless testing - is that all of my wireles devices (2 laptops, a print server) can talk (TCP/IP) to each other and also can talk wirelessly to the internet via my wireless router/gateway/ADSL.

Seperately, my SlimServer PC (which is wired to the router as is my SB3) can access the Internet via the router as can the SB3 itself. What doesn't work is that my wired and wireless devices are trapped in their own little worlds. Apart from the Internet, which works for all, my wireless devices cannot talk to my wired devices or vice versa.

It's almost like the router is keeping the wireless and wired networks apart from each other deliberately.

Any thoughts gratefully received. By the way, I changed the SB3 MAC back to its factory setting and it is still working...no idea why that made it work in the first place.
I do not use MAC filtering...