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Andrew Lucas
2003-11-13, 09:28
Hi,

Now I know I'm bound to be doing something wrong but I cant get plugins to
work.

I was trying to get the winamp plug in installed but all I see in the server
is a tickbox with no text alongside it, deselected/selecting doesnt do
anything.

I am right clicking the link to the pm file and saving it straight to the
plugins directory, I have tried three different PC's and a few different
plugins but all behave the same way.
In each case the pc is running XP or win2k.

Any suggestions on what I might be doing wrong?

Thanks

Jack Coates
2003-11-13, 09:49
are you restarting the service?

On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 08:28, Andrew Lucas wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Now I know I'm bound to be doing something wrong but I cant get plugins to
> work.
>
> I was trying to get the winamp plug in installed but all I see in the server
> is a tickbox with no text alongside it, deselected/selecting doesnt do
> anything.
>
> I am right clicking the link to the pm file and saving it straight to the
> plugins directory, I have tried three different PC's and a few different
> plugins but all behave the same way.
> In each case the pc is running XP or win2k.
>
> Any suggestions on what I might be doing wrong?
>
> Thanks
>
>

Kevin Deane-Freeman
2003-11-13, 09:50
Quoting Andrew Lucas <alucas1966 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>:

> Hi,
>
> Now I know I'm bound to be doing something wrong but I cant get plugins to
> work.
>
> I was trying to get the winamp plug in installed but all I see in the server
>
> is a tickbox with no text alongside it, deselected/selecting doesnt do
> anything.
>
> I am right clicking the link to the pm file and saving it straight to the
> plugins directory, I have tried three different PC's and a few different
> plugins but all behave the same way.
> In each case the pc is running XP or win2k.
>
> Any suggestions on what I might be doing wrong?

You probably aren't doing anything wrong. Many plugins require added Perl
modules. If these are not present, hooking the plugin into the main server will
fail. The symptom of this is that the name of the plugin is displayed as blank.
If you are running the EXE version of the windows-based server, there is no way
that I know of to access these added modules, without recompiling the .EXE
yourself. A Simpler way is to download Active Perl, install it, then install
the .zip archive of the Slimp3 Server. You can use something like Firedaemon to
run the slimp3.pl as a service. To add new modules required by any plugin, just
type perl -MCPAN -e "install modulename.pm".

-kdf

Chris Saunders
2003-11-13, 11:03
Does the plugin work properly in Windows? A lot of plugins only properly
work in Linux enviroments.

ChriS


>On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 08:28, Andrew Lucas wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Now I know I'm bound to be doing something wrong but I cant get plugins to
> > work.
> >
> > I was trying to get the winamp plug in installed but all I see in the
> server
> > is a tickbox with no text alongside it, deselected/selecting doesnt do
> > anything.
> >
> > I am right clicking the link to the pm file and saving it straight to the
> > plugins directory, I have tried three different PC's and a few different
> > plugins but all behave the same way.
> > In each case the pc is running XP or win2k.
> >
> > Any suggestions on what I might be doing wrong?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >

Marc Reichman
2003-11-13, 11:22
we're talking plugins here, let's clear some things up:

a. plugins are for the player side, they generally don't offer new
functionality to the web usage in the server
b. is this going to a slimp3 player? something else?
c. if it's going to a player, is the plugins menu enabled? it doesn't seem
to be by default.

just want to clear up ambiguous points for me.

-marc

On 0, Chris Saunders <chriss (AT) kingston (DOT) net> wrote:
> Does the plugin work properly in Windows? A lot of plugins only properly
> work in Linux enviroments.
>
> ChriS
>
>
> >On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 08:28, Andrew Lucas wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Now I know I'm bound to be doing something wrong but I cant get plugins
> >to
> >> work.
> >>
> >> I was trying to get the winamp plug in installed but all I see in the
> >server
> >> is a tickbox with no text alongside it, deselected/selecting doesnt do
> >> anything.
> >>
> >> I am right clicking the link to the pm file and saving it straight to the
> >> plugins directory, I have tried three different PC's and a few different
> >> plugins but all behave the same way.
> >> In each case the pc is running XP or win2k.
> >>
> >> Any suggestions on what I might be doing wrong?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >>

Kevin Deane-Freeman
2003-11-13, 11:38
Quoting Marc Reichman <mreichma (AT) lynx (DOT) neu.edu>:

> we're talking plugins here, let's clear some things up:
>
> a. plugins are for the player side, they generally don't offer new
> functionality to the web usage in the server

no they dont, but they do appear in the server settings as a list which you can
use to enable your choice of plugins.

> b. is this going to a slimp3 player? something else?

its the winamp controller plugin, which is designed to connect to the HTTPQ
plugin for winamp. This allows the remote to have some basic control over a
winamp client.

> c. if it's going to a player, is the plugins menu enabled? it doesn't seem
> to be by default.

By default, the player menu for plugins is desabled. I believe the problem, in
this case, was that the name would appear blank in the Web interface. This
indicates a problem with the plugin when the server is run. Its definately
being found perfectly fine. Most plugins only run in a pure Perl environment.
They will work in Windows, but only if you use the perl scripts instead of the
pre-compiled Windows EXE. This is because the compile only includes the Perl
modules needed to run teh server. It leaves out many modules that Plugin
authors make use of for the plugins. Geo::Weather, XML::Simple are common
examples.

-kdf


>
> just want to clear up ambiguous points for me.
>
> -marc
>
> On 0, Chris Saunders <chriss (AT) kingston (DOT) net> wrote:
> > Does the plugin work properly in Windows? A lot of plugins only properly
> > work in Linux enviroments.
> >
> > ChriS
> >
> >
> > >On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 08:28, Andrew Lucas wrote:
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> Now I know I'm bound to be doing something wrong but I cant get plugins
>
> > >to
> > >> work.
> > >>
> > >> I was trying to get the winamp plug in installed but all I see in the
> > >server
> > >> is a tickbox with no text alongside it, deselected/selecting doesnt do
> > >> anything.
> > >>
> > >> I am right clicking the link to the pm file and saving it straight to
> the
> > >> plugins directory, I have tried three different PC's and a few
> different
> > >> plugins but all behave the same way.
> > >> In each case the pc is running XP or win2k.
> > >>
> > >> Any suggestions on what I might be doing wrong?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >>
> > >>

Jason Snell
2003-11-13, 12:53
Kevin Deane-Freeman wrote:

>You probably aren't doing anything wrong. Many plugins require added Perl
>modules. If these are not present, hooking the plugin into the main
>server will
>fail.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think it would be
_awesome_ if someone (Slim Devices maybe, even?) would come up with a
system to make plug-ins more accessible to the masses. I've been
intrigued by many of these plug-ins, but my attempts to use CPAN to
install modules on Mac OS X have largely been met with crushing
failure. It would be nice if there was some system to bind up these
plug-ins so that non-perl heads could take advantage of their
features. The radio browser alone would be a major boost to the value
of the Slimp3 product if it were more widely accessible...

-jason
--
Jason Snell / Editor in Chief, Macworld / jsnell (AT) macworld (DOT) com
415-243-3565 / AIM-iChat: MW jsnell

Kevin Deane-Freeman
2003-11-13, 13:04
Quoting Jason Snell <jsnell (AT) macworld (DOT) com>:

> Kevin Deane-Freeman wrote:
>
> >You probably aren't doing anything wrong. Many plugins require added Perl
> >modules. If these are not present, hooking the plugin into the main
> >server will
> >fail.
>
> I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think it would be
> _awesome_ if someone (Slim Devices maybe, even?) would come up with a
> system to make plug-ins more accessible to the masses. I've been
> intrigued by many of these plug-ins, but my attempts to use CPAN to
> install modules on Mac OS X have largely been met with crushing
> failure. It would be nice if there was some system to bind up these
> plug-ins so that non-perl heads could take advantage of their
> features. The radio browser alone would be a major boost to the value
> of the Slimp3 product if it were more widely accessible..

I agree, it would be wonderful. I have no idea HOW it could be done, however.
Either the main executable for Windows and OSX have to be compiled with the more
common modules included OR the executable would need to have some sort of hook
to dynamically load external perl modules. My guess is the former would make
the main executable much larger than it already is, without being of direct
benefit to likely a large portion of the user base. The latter would likely be
near equivalent to turning the executable into a standalone perl interpreter.

-kdf

Jack Coates
2003-11-13, 13:18
On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 12:04, Kevin Deane-Freeman wrote:
> Quoting Jason Snell <jsnell (AT) macworld (DOT) com>:
>
> > Kevin Deane-Freeman wrote:
> >
> > >You probably aren't doing anything wrong. Many plugins require added Perl
> > >modules. If these are not present, hooking the plugin into the main
> > >server will
> > >fail.
> >
> > I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think it would be
> > _awesome_ if someone (Slim Devices maybe, even?) would come up with a
> > system to make plug-ins more accessible to the masses. I've been
> > intrigued by many of these plug-ins, but my attempts to use CPAN to
> > install modules on Mac OS X have largely been met with crushing
> > failure. It would be nice if there was some system to bind up these
> > plug-ins so that non-perl heads could take advantage of their
> > features. The radio browser alone would be a major boost to the value
> > of the Slimp3 product if it were more widely accessible..
>
> I agree, it would be wonderful. I have no idea HOW it could be done, however.
> Either the main executable for Windows and OSX have to be compiled with the more
> common modules included OR the executable would need to have some sort of hook
> to dynamically load external perl modules. My guess is the former would make
> the main executable much larger than it already is, without being of direct
> benefit to likely a large portion of the user base. The latter would likely be
> near equivalent to turning the executable into a standalone perl interpreter.
>
> -kdf

Or the plugins could have a copy of the module inserted directly;
nightmare to maintain, but it would work.

Or the executable could contain CPAN.pm and an error catcher that tries
to install a module if it is called but not around. Yech. Don't even
know if that would work, I've never messed with perl2exe.


--
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...

Kevin Deane-Freeman
2003-11-13, 13:41
I'm bouncing this into dev group becuase it would seem this is a better home at
this point.

Quoting Jack Coates <jack (AT) monkeynoodle (DOT) org>:

> On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 12:04, Kevin Deane-Freeman wrote:
> > Quoting Jason Snell <jsnell (AT) macworld (DOT) com>:
> >
> > > Kevin Deane-Freeman wrote:
> > >
> > > >You probably aren't doing anything wrong. Many plugins require added
> Perl
> > > >modules. If these are not present, hooking the plugin into the main
> > > >server will
> > > >fail.
> > >
> > > I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think it would be
> > > _awesome_ if someone (Slim Devices maybe, even?) would come up with a
> > > system to make plug-ins more accessible to the masses. I've been
> > > intrigued by many of these plug-ins, but my attempts to use CPAN to
> > > install modules on Mac OS X have largely been met with crushing
> > > failure. It would be nice if there was some system to bind up these
> > > plug-ins so that non-perl heads could take advantage of their
> > > features. The radio browser alone would be a major boost to the value
> > > of the Slimp3 product if it were more widely accessible..
> >
> > I agree, it would be wonderful. I have no idea HOW it could be done,
> however.
> > Either the main executable for Windows and OSX have to be compiled with the
> more
> > common modules included OR the executable would need to have some sort of
> hook
> > to dynamically load external perl modules. My guess is the former would
> make
> > the main executable much larger than it already is, without being of
> direct
> > benefit to likely a large portion of the user base. The latter would
> likely be
> > near equivalent to turning the executable into a standalone perl
> interpreter.
> >
> > -kdf
>
> Or the plugins could have a copy of the module inserted directly;
> nightmare to maintain, but it would work.
>
> Or the executable could contain CPAN.pm and an error catcher that tries
> to install a module if it is called but not around. Yech. Don't even
> know if that would work, I've never messed with perl2exe.

Given that the plugins can be loaded by the EXE, it should be possible to load
other modules. The code automatically loads any .pm file in teh plugins
directory. What if the server could also get a hold of the requirements for
each modules...and look to find them in plugins/CPAN if they are not found
anywhere else? Maybe done in such a way that they appear to be included as part
of the module. This would avoid having duplicate modules in each plugin, and
the perl core would never know the difference.

Having very little experience with the EXE and absolutely none with OSX version,
I dont really know if this is even possible. I'm just assuming the plugins even
get loaded. Maybe I'm extrapolating too much to think that other modules could
load as well.

I have heard that some windows users have managed to get some plugins to work,
but I dont recall if any have come back to give details on exactly HOWQ it was
done :)

-kdf

Kevin Deane-Freeman
2003-11-13, 13:41
I'm bouncing this into dev group becuase it would seem this is a better home at
this point.

Quoting Jack Coates <jack (AT) monkeynoodle (DOT) org>:

> On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 12:04, Kevin Deane-Freeman wrote:
> > Quoting Jason Snell <jsnell (AT) macworld (DOT) com>:
> >
> > > Kevin Deane-Freeman wrote:
> > >
> > > >You probably aren't doing anything wrong. Many plugins require added
> Perl
> > > >modules. If these are not present, hooking the plugin into the main
> > > >server will
> > > >fail.
> > >
> > > I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think it would be
> > > _awesome_ if someone (Slim Devices maybe, even?) would come up with a
> > > system to make plug-ins more accessible to the masses. I've been
> > > intrigued by many of these plug-ins, but my attempts to use CPAN to
> > > install modules on Mac OS X have largely been met with crushing
> > > failure. It would be nice if there was some system to bind up these
> > > plug-ins so that non-perl heads could take advantage of their
> > > features. The radio browser alone would be a major boost to the value
> > > of the Slimp3 product if it were more widely accessible..
> >
> > I agree, it would be wonderful. I have no idea HOW it could be done,
> however.
> > Either the main executable for Windows and OSX have to be compiled with the
> more
> > common modules included OR the executable would need to have some sort of
> hook
> > to dynamically load external perl modules. My guess is the former would
> make
> > the main executable much larger than it already is, without being of
> direct
> > benefit to likely a large portion of the user base. The latter would
> likely be
> > near equivalent to turning the executable into a standalone perl
> interpreter.
> >
> > -kdf
>
> Or the plugins could have a copy of the module inserted directly;
> nightmare to maintain, but it would work.
>
> Or the executable could contain CPAN.pm and an error catcher that tries
> to install a module if it is called but not around. Yech. Don't even
> know if that would work, I've never messed with perl2exe.

Given that the plugins can be loaded by the EXE, it should be possible to load
other modules. The code automatically loads any .pm file in teh plugins
directory. What if the server could also get a hold of the requirements for
each modules...and look to find them in plugins/CPAN if they are not found
anywhere else? Maybe done in such a way that they appear to be included as part
of the module. This would avoid having duplicate modules in each plugin, and
the perl core would never know the difference.

Having very little experience with the EXE and absolutely none with OSX version,
I dont really know if this is even possible. I'm just assuming the plugins even
get loaded. Maybe I'm extrapolating too much to think that other modules could
load as well.

I have heard that some windows users have managed to get some plugins to work,
but I dont recall if any have come back to give details on exactly HOWQ it was
done :)

-kdf

dean
2003-11-13, 13:47
I couldn't agree more. The best solution is to probably create a way
for plug-in authors to include any dependent CPAN modules with their
plug-in.

I'll push this up on the wish list...

-dean

On Nov 13, 2003, at 11:53 AM, Jason Snell wrote:

> Kevin Deane-Freeman wrote:
>
>> You probably aren't doing anything wrong. Many plugins require added
>> Perl
>> modules. If these are not present, hooking the plugin into the main
>> server will
>> fail.
>
> I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think it would be
> _awesome_ if someone (Slim Devices maybe, even?) would come up with a
> system to make plug-ins more accessible to the masses. I've been
> intrigued by many of these plug-ins, but my attempts to use CPAN to
> install modules on Mac OS X have largely been met with crushing
> failure. It would be nice if there was some system to bind up these
> plug-ins so that non-perl heads could take advantage of their
> features. The radio browser alone would be a major boost to the value
> of the Slimp3 product if it were more widely accessible...
>
> -jason
> --
> Jason Snell / Editor in Chief, Macworld / jsnell (AT) macworld (DOT) com
> 415-243-3565 / AIM-iChat: MW jsnell
>

Jason Snell
2003-11-13, 15:04
>I agree, it would be wonderful. I have no idea HOW it could be done, however.
>Either the main executable for Windows and OSX have to be compiled
>with the more
>common modules included OR the executable would need to have some sort of hook
>to dynamically load external perl modules.

Well, at least the good news on OS X is there's no "executable"
equivalent to the Windows version. It's really running the perl
script in OS X's perl environment, I believe.

--
Jason Snell / Editor in Chief, Macworld / jsnell (AT) macworld (DOT) com
415-243-3565 / AIM-iChat: MW jsnell

Kevin Deane-Freeman
2003-11-13, 15:34
Quoting Jason Snell <jsnell (AT) macworld (DOT) com>:

> >I agree, it would be wonderful. I have no idea HOW it could be done,
> however.
> >Either the main executable for Windows and OSX have to be compiled
> >with the more
> >common modules included OR the executable would need to have some sort of
> hook
> >to dynamically load external perl modules.
>
> Well, at least the good news on OS X is there's no "executable"
> equivalent to the Windows version. It's really running the perl
> script in OS X's perl environment, I believe.

If that's true, it should be very easy to get the plugins to work. Its just not
automatic. It isn't an automatic thing in Linux either. You do still have to
know what modules are needed and run perl -MCPAN -e "install module.pm", and
hope it will work. :)

If plugin writers can include them easily, it will hopefully simplify the
process. Alternatively, if the server can manage to report what is missing, in
a nice readable message, it would help too. Currently, you have to run at
command line and watch it barf about required modules.

-kdf





> --
> Jason Snell / Editor in Chief, Macworld / jsnell (AT) macworld (DOT) com
> 415-243-3565 / AIM-iChat: MW jsnell
>

Craig Brannan
2003-11-13, 18:34
I think one of the easiest suggestions would be for the plugin
developers to document the required plugins at the beginning of the
perl file. Some have been kind enough to do this - while others provide
little assistance in this regard.

I've had no problems loading required CPAN modules in OSX and have the
plugins I'm really interested in running flawlessly.

But there have also been a few that would have been nice to try-out,
but without any documentation on the module dependencies up front, I've
given them a pass.

Craig.

On Nov 13, 2003, at 5:34 PM, Kevin Deane-Freeman wrote:

> If that's true, it should be very easy to get the plugins to work.
> Its just not
> automatic. It isn't an automatic thing in Linux either. You do still
> have to
> know what modules are needed and run perl -MCPAN -e "install
> module.pm", and
> hope it will work. :)
>
> If plugin writers can include them easily, it will hopefully simplify
> the
> process. Alternatively, if the server can manage to report what is
> missing, in
> a nice readable message, it would help too. Currently, you have to
> run at
> command line and watch it barf about required modules.
>
> -kdf

Jack Coates
2003-11-13, 20:43
Alright, just signed up for the developer's list and will move there
after my confirmation comes in.

all true, but I think what Jason's suggesting is a way to get the
modules hooked in without the user needing to know it's being done... so
that the pointy-clicky crowd can get plugins without having to do
anything more than click "save-as".

Maybe a plugins package? I see this done with gkrellm, nagios --
basically a collection of the most popular & useful plugins together
with the CPAN modules they'll require?



On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 17:34, Craig Brannan wrote:
> I think one of the easiest suggestions would be for the plugin
> developers to document the required plugins at the beginning of the
> perl file. Some have been kind enough to do this - while others provide
> little assistance in this regard.
>
> I've had no problems loading required CPAN modules in OSX and have the
> plugins I'm really interested in running flawlessly.
>
> But there have also been a few that would have been nice to try-out,
> but without any documentation on the module dependencies up front, I've
> given them a pass.
>
> Craig.
>
> On Nov 13, 2003, at 5:34 PM, Kevin Deane-Freeman wrote:
>
> > If that's true, it should be very easy to get the plugins to work.
> > Its just not
> > automatic. It isn't an automatic thing in Linux either. You do still
> > have to
> > know what modules are needed and run perl -MCPAN -e "install
> > module.pm", and
> > hope it will work. :)
> >
> > If plugin writers can include them easily, it will hopefully simplify
> > the
> > process. Alternatively, if the server can manage to report what is
> > missing, in
> > a nice readable message, it would help too. Currently, you have to
> > run at
> > command line and watch it barf about required modules.
> >
> > -kdf
>
>