PDA

View Full Version : Mac/SB1 Network Question



ecruz
2006-03-20, 18:27
I've recently purchased a used SB1. I have it running via ethernet and love it so far.

My question is about the network with my Mac. I'm running OS 10.3 and I have a DSL connection. Obviously the DSL uses the ethernet connection on the Mac, so I bought an ethernet "switch". I can't seem to get it set up where I can use the DSL and the SB1 at the same time. And not just at the same time, but when I want to go from one to the other, I have to go back to "Network Settings" in the control panel and change the "Location" from "Music" (for the SB1) to "Automatic" (for the DSL).

Also, I'm using SlimServer 6.2.2

Does anyone know how to set it up where they can both connect without changing the "Location" every time?

notanatheist
2006-03-20, 20:58
What DSL modem do you have? The Actiontec units provided by Qwest have routher functionality built in. It sounds like you may not have that or it's not functioning as a DHCP server. Return the swith and get a router. That'll dish out IPs to all your devices and allow them to be online at the same time.

ecruz
2006-03-21, 06:01
The modem is a "Speedstream". I was told before that I wanted a "switch" not a "router" and that it would dish out addresses to everything. Was that incorrect?

Mark Lanctot
2006-03-21, 12:58
The modem is a "Speedstream". I was told before that I wanted a "switch" not a "router" and that it would dish out addresses to everything. Was that incorrect?

I have a Speedstream modem. They can be used to pass out addresses via DHCP, but since they only have one LAN port, you would need a hub to connect multiple devices.

Better to use a switch as they don't cost that much more and are more advanced and have greater capabilities. Turn off DHCP in the modem and turn on DHCP in the switch. You should be able to do this by accessing each device through your web browser and typing in each device's IP address in the URL bar, as follows:

http://192.168.2.1

This is my modem's default address. If you haven't done anything with it, that's probably where it is.

Your switch would be here:

http://192.168.2.10

if it got its address from the modem as this is the start of the modem's default DHCP pool. It could be at .11 if the Mac received its address first. If it isn't at either address, it's usually at 192.168.1.1. And if it's there, the modem has probably locked it out of your network, so you have to fix that by reassigning its IP address to one in the 192.168.2.XXX range.

The modem should not prompt you for a user name/password, but the switch might. Check the manual for the switch. It's often "admin" as the user name and nothing for the password, i.e. just press enter.

To get some indication, can you see your IP address in some sort of program on the Mac? I'm not familiar with Macs, but in Windows it's 'ipconfig' at a command prompt. You should have some sort of "Network Properties" tool or something. This will indicate where your Mac got its IP address from. If it's in the same subnet as the modem (i.e. 192.168.2.XXX) then it got it from the modem and the modem is at 192.168.2.1. If it's in the 192.168.1.XXX range it probably got it from the switch (at 192.168.1.1) and the modem will try to block it - which explains why no Internet access!

You may not have an option to turn off DHCP in the modem - mine only does it through advanced configuration, which I kind of had to hack in to get to. If you can't, turn off DHCP in the switch.

With only one active DHCP server on the network, reboot your Mac and your SB. On reboot, they should pick up their new address.

ecruz
2006-03-22, 13:23
I've tried to type in the modem address http://192.168.2.1 in my browser, it looks like it's going to find it, then does nothing. Same thing if I type in the switch address.

If I go to "control panel"-"network"-"network settings" it says Built-in ethernet is connected and has the IP address 68.73.2.43 But I get a different address every time I connect.

Any ideas?

ecruz
2006-03-22, 14:08
Okay..

I contacted Slime Devices technical support. He said it seems like I need to "set-up" the switch. He didn't know how, but said everything else seemed fine. But he "wasn't too familiar with Mac OS"

I contacted Dynex, the maker of the switch. They said "no configuaration is necessary. It should be plug & play and it seemed like a network issue". But they "only offer support on their products".

I don't know where to go from here. Any help setting this up would be appreciated.

notanatheist
2006-03-23, 00:48
your 68.* address is public space. Not safe. It sounds like your Speedstream isn't acting as a router at this point. Edit your post to hide your IP unless it changes frequently. Drop a router between the Mac and Speedstream and your router should get the 68.* address and your "internal" network should get 192.168.*.* addresses. A switch is very much plug and play but you don't have anything acting as a DHCP server.

BTW, a switch does not get an IP from any device. The only exception would be a managed switch which the average consumer is not going to have at home.

cepheid
2006-03-23, 02:15
What ISP are you on? It sounds like you're probably using SBC (now AT&T) DSL. Or, if you're on Ameritech, you'll have a similar issue. The proprietary firmware for SpeedStream modems on these ISPs disabled much of the router functionality, although you can work around that to some extent.

You need to look at the documentation that came with your DSL modem. Alternatively, there should be a sticker on the modem that explains how to access its web interface. If you're using SBC, chances are high that your modem's interface is on http://192.168.0.1 - that's what mine uses.

Once you confirm what ISP you are using and whether you can log onto the modem's web interface, I can provide further details on whether you can just use the switch, and if so, how to do it properly. Or, you can get a Cable/DSL router - they're fairly cheap (can be as low as $5 after rebate if you look hard) and will also allow you to connect other computers to the net (like if a friend brings over another laptop).

But, if you want to use the switch, post what your ISP is and if you were successful using the link above to get to your modem.

ecruz
2006-03-23, 08:36
It keeps getting better.

FYI, the IP address is dynamic and I log out & in several times per day. So that address is long gone.

According to SBC, my modem, the Speedstreem 5360 has no user interface.

So I bought a Linksys router. Box says for PC, but the tech guy says it will work with a Mac. After spending a total of 1 1/2 hours on the phone with Linksys tech support, they came to the conclusion that either a) the router is faulty and not handing out an IP address, or b) it doesn't really work with a Mac. They're not sure because they "don't support the Mac OS".

Does anyone have other options for getting this thing to work? I tried the wireless route first, "Airport Express". It worked instantly and without hassle, but the music kept cutting out. Like it had to stop and "catch up" several times per song.

Mark Lanctot
2006-03-23, 11:38
So I bought a Linksys router. Box says for PC, but the tech guy says it will work with a Mac. After spending a total of 1 1/2 hours on the phone with Linksys tech support, they came to the conclusion that either a) the router is faulty and not handing out an IP address, or b) it doesn't really work with a Mac. They're not sure because they "don't support the Mac OS".

That doesn't make sense. A router does not talk directly with the OS. A router is compatible with any OS that needs an IP address to function...and that's just about all of them.

They "don't support the Mac OS" simply because they don't provide an auto-wizard tool in Mac OS to set it up. That does not mean you can't use it with Mac OS.

To install the router, plug the modem's LAN port into the router's WAN port. Plug a cable between a LAN port of the router and your Mac. Turn on the router. Restart your MAC so it will obtain a DHCP-assigned address from the router. The Mac may have tools to get a new address without rebooting - in Windows it's "ipconfig /release", "ipconfig /renew".

Once you have your new address, take a look at it. For Linksys it should be 192.168.2.XXX. The router is listening at the start of the subnet, i.e. 192.168.2.1. You should be able to configure DHCP from there.

cepheid
2006-03-23, 12:06
Doesn't matter anyway, it's not adviseable to handle DHCP through the modem. And if you break it, you'll be in trouble with your ISP. It's their modem.
Actually, with DSL, it's almost always YOUR modem. Although you might get it for "free," it's yours to keep; you're not renting it from the ISP. This is in contrast to cablemodem, where you might be renting from the cable company or you might own it, depending on how you signed up for service.


Restart your MAC so it will obtain a DHCP-assigned address from the router. The Mac may have tools to get a new address without rebooting - in Windows it's "ipconfig /release", "ipconfig /renew".
Things are much easier on a Mac. =D The Mac notices when the ethernet is disconnected and will obtain a new DHCP lease once the ethernet is reconnected. There is also a button to renew or release the DHCP lease in the network preferences.

As for the router, Linksys works just fine with Macs, assuming the router is set up properly. The Mac may not be compatible with any proprietary technology like SuperG or other speed enhancements, but if those are turned off, everything should be working fine. I can't give you 90 minutes of tech support but if the router is set to hand out DHCP addresses and if your Mac is set to use DHCP, it should all work out fine. The only question is whether your router is properly set up to do PPPoE, which it will need to do if you want to connect to the internet.

Mark Lanctot
2006-03-23, 12:11
Actually, with DSL, it's almost always YOUR modem. Although you might get it for "free," it's yours to keep; you're not renting it from the ISP. This is in contrast to cablemodem, where you might be renting from the cable company or you might own it, depending on how you signed up for service.

I guess things are different in Canada. It is most definitely THEIR modem, and when you move or change ISPs, you have to give it back to them. Also if they find you have toyed with it, they will blacklist you and charge you some exhorbitant price for the modem, something like $150 IIRC.

You also pay $2 a month for it. :-(

At any rate, it's much better to use DHCP in a router rather than a modem that includes it as an afterthought.

ecruz
2006-03-23, 12:52
To install the router, plug the modem's LAN port into the router's WAN port. Plug a cable between a LAN port of the router and your Mac. Turn on the router. Restart your MAC so it will obtain a DHCP-assigned address from the router.

This is what I spent the 1 1/2 hours on the phone with them trying to do. We reset the router many times, hooked it up different ways, changed settings in the computer, etc... but it never would get the 192.x IP address. It kept getting 68.x that's when they said either the router was bad or it won't work with a Mac.

I've been told to try a Belkin router as the Mac OS is supported by them. I was actually going to buy the Belkin, but the guy at Comp USA said the Linksys was a much better unit.

Mark Lanctot
2006-03-23, 12:58
This is what I spent the 1 1/2 hours on the phone with them trying to do. We reset the router many times, hooked it up different ways, changed settings in the computer, etc... but it never would get the 192.x IP address. It kept getting 68.x that's when they said either the router was bad or it won't work with a Mac.

...well I don't know then. What model of router is it?



I've been told to try a Belkin router as the Mac OS is supported by them. I was actually going to buy the Belkin, but the guy at Comp USA said the Linksys was a much better unit.

He was probably right. Belkin routers seem quite flakey. Although if it's just a wired router, there shouldn't be much that could go wrong with it.

But again, a router doesn't care what OS you're using.

ecruz
2006-03-23, 13:03
I can't give you 90 minutes of tech support but if the router is set to hand out DHCP addresses and if your Mac is set to use DHCP, it should all work out fine. The only question is whether your router is properly set up to do PPPoE, which it will need to do if you want to connect to the internet.

The router is set up correctly to hand out DHCP addresses according to Linksys tech support. I don't know if it's set up correctly to do PPPoE and that's what the people at Linksys didn't know either. How do I make sure that part is correct?

Mark Lanctot
2006-03-23, 13:04
This is what I spent the 1 1/2 hours on the phone with them trying to do. We reset the router many times, hooked it up different ways, changed settings in the computer, etc... but it never would get the 192.x IP address. It kept getting 68.x that's when they said either the router was bad or it won't work with a Mac.


BTW did you try cepheid's advice?


The Mac notices when the ethernet is disconnected and will obtain a new DHCP lease once the ethernet is reconnected. There is also a button to renew or release the DHCP lease in the network preferences.

To get this going, you should perhaps disconnect the router from the Mac with the Mac running. Also have a look for this button.

What you have to do to access the router page is you need to set your Mac to have an IP address in the same subnet as the router. The router is at 192.168.2.1 at default. Set your Mac via static IP to 192.168.2.XXX, try 192.168.2.2. Then you should be able to access the router page at 192.168.2.1 to see what's going on. The router will block your Mac at 68.XXX.XXX.XXX from accessing it.

ecruz
2006-03-23, 13:15
BTW did you try cepheid's advice?



To get this going, you should perhaps disconnect the router from the Mac with the Mac running. Also have a look for this button.

What you have to do to access the router page is you need to set your Mac to have an IP address in the same subnet as the router. The router is at 192.168.2.1 at default. Set your Mac via static IP to 192.168.2.XXX, try 192.168.2.2. Then you should be able to access the router page at 192.168.2.1 to see what's going on. The router will block your Mac at 68.XXX.XXX.XXX from accessing it.

I did try the "new DHCP lease" button, but like I said, I kept getting a 68.x address.

I will try setting the Mac via static IP, that sounds like something that might work. I won't have time to mess with it until tomorrow, but I'll post back what I find out.

I was going to try the Belkin just because they offer Mac OS support. I can call them and they should be able to help me out, instead of just saying "sorry, we don't support Mac OS, but you can go buy another one of ours and see if it works".

Mark Lanctot
2006-03-23, 13:21
I will try setting the Mac via static IP, that sounds like something that might work. I won't have time to mess with it until tomorrow, but I'll post back what I find out.

I'm surprised Linksys tech support didn't clue into this. With that public IP address, the router will never let you access it. That's what it's supposed to do! Once you have the Mac in the same subnet as the router though, you will be able to see what's going on.

It won't be that difficult to configure things from there.



I was going to try the Belkin just because they offer Mac OS support. I can call them and they should be able to help me out, instead of just saying "sorry, we don't support Mac OS, but you can go buy another one of ours and see if it works".

Yes, that is a good point, but if Belkin support is as clueless as Linksys support, they'll only be marginally more helpful.

ecruz
2006-03-23, 13:36
If I set the static address, would that also work for the switch? I'd rather use the switch if possible, since it's 1/4 of the price of the router.

cepheid
2006-03-23, 13:43
Your modem is handling PPPoE. You don't need to worry about this in the router.
According to this FAQ at broadbandreports.com (http://www.dslreports.com/faq/12966), the 5360 operates in bridge mode ONLY. Therefore PPPoE is handled by the computer, NOT by the modem. By PPPoE I mean initiating the login to the ISP, to create the session over which all other packets are sent. Further, the 5360 will not have a web interface, as covered in this FAQ entry (http://www.dslreports.com/faq/2695).

As for setting up the network, if the Mac continues to get the 68.x IP, something is clearly not wired and/or configured properly. What you want to do is the following. Note that for the advice regarding the LinkSys, I am guessing about the web interface based on what I know about LinkSys routers... your router may be slightly different, but hopefully you can figure out any differences.

1) Disconnect ALL ethernet cables, and start from scratch.
2) First, connect the Mac's ethernet to one of the LAN ports on the LinkSys. Do NOT yet connect the DSL modem. Leave the LinkSys router TURNED OFF.
3) On the Mac, go into your network preferences (System Preferences -> Network), and double-click on the Ethernet interface to enter the configuration screen.
4) Under the TCP/IP tab, make sure the "Configure IPv4" setting is "Using DHCP."
5) Under the PPPoE tab, make sure that "Connect using PPPoE" is **NOT** checked.
6) Turn ON the LinkSys router. After a few moments (perhaps 30 seconds), your Mac should automatically obtain an IP from the LinkSys, and it should be in the 192.168.x.x subnet.
7) Open a web browser to the router's web interface. If your Mac's IP address is 192.168.X.Y, then the router's IP address will be 192.168.X.1 (so if X is 1, the router's IP would be 192.168.1.1).
8) Under the Setup tab, find the pop-up menu for Internet Connection Type. Set it to PPPoE. In the boxes below, enter the username and password that you use to log on to the DSL. Make sure "Connect on Demand" is NOT checked - this will keep your connection live at all times. You should leave all of the boxes under "Optional Settings" blank unless your ISP has told you otherwise. Keep this window OPEN.
9) Now, with the DSL modem turned OFF, connect an ethernet cable from the LinkSys WAN port to the modem's ethernet port. Make sure the phone line is properly connected.
10) Turn the modem on. After it establishes DSL sync, the LinkSys should attempt to initiate the PPPoE connection.
11) In your browser, still on the LinkSys web interface, go to the Status tab (far right). Under the Configuration Type, you should see whether the router managed to connect or not. If the router is not connected, try clicking the Connect button. Once the router is properly connected, it should show an IP in the 68.x range (or whatever else your ISP assigns).

Once that happens, you should be all set to go and you should be able to see the internet from your Mac. You should then be able to hook up the Squeezebox to the LinkSys (either wired or wirelessly, depending on what router you have and how you want to set up the network) and it should see the internet as well.

Hope this helps...

Mark Lanctot
2006-03-23, 13:45
If I set the static address, would that also work for the switch? I'd rather use the switch if possible, since it's 1/4 of the price of the router.

The switch appears to have no way to configure it. There is no web page you can access. No settings at all, in fact.

cepheid
2006-03-23, 13:51
If I set the static address, would that also work for the switch? I'd rather use the switch if possible, since it's 1/4 of the price of the router.
With your modem and the setup I think you want, a switch will not work for you. You need to create an internal network in your home.

If your Mac is Airport-enabled or if you had a second ethernet interface on the Mac (i.e. if you had a PCI ethernet card), then you could use Internet Sharing to effectively turn your Mac into a router. However, if you use Internet Sharing over Airport, all the other clients (including the Squeezebox) would need to connect wirelessly. If you shared over a second ethernet port, then you could connect a switch to that ethernet port and all other clients (including the Squeezebox) to the switch. In either case, if you used Internet Sharing in this manner then you could return the router and use just the switch (or wireless connections), but I think your setup will probably not allow this.

With what I know of your setup right now, I believe the router is the only way to go, unless wireless is an option and/or you want to buy a second ethernet interface (they're fairly cheap).

Also note that you can find VERY cheap routers, averaging about $20 after mail-in rebate. If you paid full retail price for your router, with no rebate, then you did not get a good deal. Go to http://dealmac.com and search for "Cable/DSL router" to find the nice inexpensive ones. You should be able to find a router whose after-rebate price is no more than what you paid for the switch.

ecruz
2006-03-23, 15:00
Thanks for all of your help. Like I said, I won't be able to mess with it again until tomorrow, but I think I'll be able to get it running.

I'll let you know,
E-

ecruz
2006-03-24, 07:23
YEAH!!! It's up and running properly.

Thank you everyone for the help. That was a lot more difficult than it needed to be.

Thanks again,
E-

cepheid
2006-03-24, 13:04
YEAH!!! It's up and running properly.
Congratulations! Mind if I ask, what finally fixed your problem? Which steps did you follow to fix it?

Maybe you should call LinkSys and tell them that you got better tech support from random strangers on a web forum. ;-)

ecruz
2006-03-24, 13:13
Congratulations! Mind if I ask, what finally fixed your problem? Which steps did you follow to fix it?

Maybe you should call LinkSys and tell them that you got better tech support from random strangers on a web forum. ;-)


I followed your detailed instructions and it worked instantly.