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opaqueice
2006-03-03, 06:58
What online music services do people use for downloads in lossless formats, if any? I know of one - allofmp3.com, a Russian site which I've used and can recommend. Only part of their collection (labelled OEEX, I believe) is available in lossless formats (including FLAC), and they charge by data downloaded rather than songs (at around $.02 per megabyte, less various discounts). So an album in FLAC format might be $6-7 or so.

Have people found alternatives online? I'd be particularly interested in a service with more classical music.

DISCLAIMER: some may tell you this service is illegal in the USA. After looking into it that doesn't seem to me to be the case, but then again I'm not an intellectual property rights laywer. You can find quite a bit about that on the web, up to and including the relevant laws in both countries.

cliveb
2006-03-03, 07:59
What online music services do people use for downloads in lossless formats, if any? I know of one - allofmp3.com, a Russian site which I've used and can recommend. Only part of their collection (labelled OEEX, I believe) is available in lossless formats (including FLAC), and they charge by data downloaded rather than songs (at around $.02 per megabyte, less various discounts). So an album in FLAC format might be $6-7 or so.

Have people found alternatives online? I'd be particularly interested in a service with more classical music.
Re. allofmp3.com: how sure can anyone be that their "lossless" downloads are actually sourced from uncompressed rips? Despite the fact that their website is very nicely put together and their selling model seems just right, they strike me as a shady bunch and I wouldn't be suprised to discover that the FLAC you pay extra for was transcoded from something like a 320kbs MP3.

As for other sources of lossless downloads: I know you specifically mentioned classical, but if you're a King Crimson/Robert Fripp fan, www.dgmlive.com sells (legal) FLAC downloads of concerts and such like.

hifisteve
2006-03-03, 08:48
Legal arguments aside, the ability to download compresses but lossless music is something I would be quite happy to pay for.

What I'm not happy to do is shell out 7+ for a download from iTunes which contains 1/10 the data of the original CD, is protected so that I can't actually do anything with it anyway and which I could have bought the actual CD or about 1 more!

Actually I'm curious, don't your consumer rights allow you to make copies of music which you have bought for your personal use? I mean as far as I know I'm legally allowed to make copies of my own CDs for the car but if I buy something from the Apple store (which I won't), shouldn't I be allowed to copy it?

nathanroberts1
2006-03-03, 09:09
I've sampled allofmp3 and, to my ears and good-but-not-great equipment, the flacs did not seem to be of the same quality as my own eac rips. I share the suspicion of cliveb.

mikerob
2006-03-03, 09:19
www.stompy.com has downloads in wav and mp3 formats however it is a specialist site for house music.

Thump553
2006-03-03, 13:03
www.archive.org has lossless live concerts by performers that permit sharing. There are quite a few very good ones there.

opaqueice
2006-03-03, 14:31
I've sampled allofmp3 and, to my ears and good-but-not-great equipment, the flacs did not seem to be of the same quality as my own eac rips. I share the suspicion of cliveb.

Interesting. I'll try an ABXY comparison on an allofmp3 FLAC file and versus my own EAC rip and see if I can tell the difference (by the way, foobar has an excellent and easy to use utility for such comparisons).

My understanding was that some allofmp3 files were stored on their server in a lossy format, but that after complaints about re-encoding artifacts they switched to lossless. My impression is that files marked OE are stored as lossy copies, but those marked OEEX are stored losslessly. If you check, you'll see you can only download lossless formats for OEEX files.

According to this:
http://music.allofmp3.com/help/help.shtml?gs=956#top
it's possible to download the OEEX WAV files directly, so one could just do a bit-bit comparison. I haven't tried that yet, but I'm pretty skeptical they'd go to all the trouble to fake this, especially for only part of their catalogue.

opaqueice
2006-03-03, 14:55
Actually I'm curious, don't your consumer rights allow you to make copies of music which you have bought for your personal use? I mean as far as I know I'm legally allowed to make copies of my own CDs for the car but if I buy something from the Apple store (which I won't), shouldn't I be allowed to copy it?

I think the answer to this is yes, but that doesn't mean Apple can't make it hard for you!

My impression is that much of what people think is illegal in this realm is in fact in a grey area - the laws which apply to it were written before much of the technology in question existed, and as such only court precedents or new laws can establish what is and isn't allowed.

Media providers clearly have a strong incentive to convince you that any form of reproduction is illegal, so my advice is be very skeptical of anything they claim on this. In the days when recording radio broadcasts to cassette tapes was common, record companies claimed it was illegal, thus creating lots of confusion (which I suspect was their goal). However, it is explicitly permitted under US law as long as the tape is for personal use. I think the rationale is partly that recording from radio does not constitute a perfect copy of the original. Which raises an interesting question about whether an MP3 is considered a perfect copy, or if not, how about a compressed but lossless format?

By the way, thanks for the suggestions everyone - I've been checking out stompy.com, looks pretty nice.

tom permutt
2006-03-03, 15:19
Magnatune.com might interest you. You can get lossless files, it's legal and ethical (they themselves are the "record label," not a secondary service, and they PAY THE MUSICIANS), and they have quite a few classical artists in their catalog. Specialized niches, of course, but I have a couple of their albums that I quite like.

Plus, for Squeezeboxers, you can "tune in" to their whole catalog or various sections of it as "Internet radio," and listen for free (to a lossy stream) from your easy chair until you hear something you want to buy.

tom permutt
2006-03-03, 15:22
In the days when recording radio broadcasts to cassette tapes was common, record companies claimed it was illegal, thus creating lots of confusion (which I suspect was their goal). However, it is explicitly permitted under US law as long as the tape is for personal use.
Well, yes, but: the law that made it "explicitly permitted" was passed after, and partly in response to, the companies' complaints. Whether it was legal before that may still be in doubt. So, it is at least possible that you and the record companies were both right: it was illegal but it isn't now.

nelamvr6
2006-03-03, 16:31
www.archive.org has lossless live concerts by performers that permit sharing. There are quite a few very good ones there.


I was just about to mention this site, you beat me to it!

great site, just tons of lossless music for free!

Jez
2006-04-04, 17:05
www.archive.org has lossless live concerts by performers that permit sharing. There are quite a few very good ones there.

I don;t know whether you realise it but you can access the Live Music Archive through SqueezeNetwork. It's in the main menu once you're connected. Of course I doubt the stream is in FLAC but it a good way to sample before you go to the trouble of downloading.

kefa
2006-04-10, 00:37
If you're in to dance and electronica Bleep (http://www.bleep.com) has a good mix of releases. Mostly mp3 format, but there are a few flacs tucked away in there

Glaswegian techno record label Soma (http://www.somarecords.com) sells its quality back catalogue in flac format. I've bought a few things from here including Alex Smoke and Funk D'Void.

NigelC
2006-04-11, 14:36
.......

As for other sources of lossless downloads: I know you specifically mentioned classical, but if you're a King Crimson/Robert Fripp fan, www.dgmlive.com sells (legal) FLAC downloads of concerts and such like.

Clive
Thanks for this. Ive been a KC fan for years, but didnt realise this site existed (can't be that big a fan, then!). I'll be buying some of the FLACs once i've listened to the samples.

Nigel

daveblazer
2006-04-14, 20:30
http://www.musicgiants.com/

fathom39
2006-04-15, 06:35
You can get some FLACs here... but be forewarned, it is not for everyone.

www.beatallica.org

Beatles songs performed with a metal twist. The group manages to parody Metallica and the lifestyle as well! Hey Dude, Leper Madonna, etc.

jabberwockie
2006-04-15, 08:47
I just saw this post and wanted to add some of my 2 pennies. I am huge fan of HDCD and up until I purchased my squeezebox, HDCD's and Lossless pcm donwloads were the only thing I purchased. AllofMP3 provides oeex downloads on some cd's and if you know what recordings/cds are HDCD you can download the exact copy in HDCD format. As an experiment I downloaded a whole oeex album that I knew was an HDCD CD and burned it to a cd an popped it in my HDCD CD player and the HDCD light came on. If these recordings were not in the exact losslesss wav/pcm format, the light would not recognize HDCD encoding. I hope this helps any questions about the quality of Allofmp3's lossless content.

Jabberwockie



Interesting. I'll try an ABXY comparison on an allofmp3 FLAC file and versus my own EAC rip and see if I can tell the difference (by the way, foobar has an excellent and easy to use utility for such comparisons).

My understanding was that some allofmp3 files were stored on their server in a lossy format, but that after complaints about re-encoding artifacts they switched to lossless. My impression is that files marked OE are stored as lossy copies, but those marked OEEX are stored losslessly. If you check, you'll see you can only download lossless formats for OEEX files.

According to this:
http://music.allofmp3.com/help/help.shtml?gs=956#top
it's possible to download the OEEX WAV files directly, so one could just do a bit-bit comparison. I haven't tried that yet, but I'm pretty skeptical they'd go to all the trouble to fake this, especially for only part of their catalogue.

CarlOtto
2006-04-17, 12:55
I can recommend this site for classical music:

http://bt.imagegarden.net/index_11.html

It is very good for lossless music - in fact I haven't even found anything but lossless there. Not for the faint hearted though, it's an Asian site so unless you read the right Asian language (no clue which) you'll get a lot of funny characters in most places - but I've managed to find my way around anyway and it is very rewarding. There is usually some 5-15 new classical CD's in full lossless (APE mostly) quality every day.

Short how-to for those of you who like me can't read much of the text:

The index_11 is classical music in lossless format. There are other indexes (try the links on your left side) for other things.

The first 10 or so torrents on the list seems to be some sort of "sticky" permanent stuff, they are rarely renewed. The daily new ones start just after the block of pictures under the first 10 torrents.

Click on everything! Even if a torrent says only ??????__???!! or whatever. Most of them are interesting. When you get to a new page for the actual torrent, this is how I've managed:

The link half way down looking like this:
BT种子文件下载: 下载种子文件
is the actual torrent, just click and download. You can always click here and start downloading - you will then be able to see the file list in English and abort if you don't like it.

The link just above it looks like this:
发布者提供的详细信息: 相关介绍和链接

Not very enlightening....but this takes you to a forum where there is often a picture of the front and back of the CD and you can see exactly what it is.

Good hunting! And remember to download only what you already paid for - for backup purposes etc....

Mark Lanctot
2006-04-18, 08:53
http://www.musicgiants.com/

One showstopper which is outlined here:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20311

Interestingly they used to have another fairly alarming policy: their software would search your PC for non-DRMed music files and charge you for those too! It was posted here but I can't find it now, and it certainly isn't in their FAQ, so it looks like they dropped it, but their FAQ prominently mentions several times that they use DRM. They seem quite proud of it...

crooner
2006-04-24, 20:28
Thanks for the archive.org tip.
I've been downloading lots of lossless stuff. Listening to Jack Johnson live in Paris as I type this. Awesome!

atalio
2006-11-15, 05:26
Magnatune at www.magnatune.com has lossless format music available for download. The complete list of formats they support: MP3, WAV, OGG, FLAC and AAC.

The downloads are free of copy protection/DRM.

However, I believe they only carry music that an artist has directly submitted to them (in other words, you probably won't find many major-label titles).

-atalio

mmg_fan
2007-04-11, 14:39
After reading somone's suggestion to check out allofmp3, i've read varying reports on both their legality and whether or not they will be around much longer.

I'm also apprehensive to supply any credit info with all the reports of russian based fraud schemes.

Apparently no musicians receive any royalties...is this true?

Anyone care to chime in here?

wullsy
2007-04-11, 14:59
Read AllOfMP3's Wikipedia entry - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AllOfMP3.com. This tells you everything you need to know. The payment gateways they use aren't Russian (originally Dutch, but now Albanaian I think), and I've never had a problem with any credit card used on their site. It certainly is of dubious legality (or morality), and I doubt if it'll be around for much longer.

BigTony
2007-07-03, 06:25
Read all about it here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6264266.stm

and hello to

mp3Sparks.com

BT

adamslim
2007-07-03, 11:39
and hello to

mp3Sparks.com

That's hello, rather than welcome! If you're going to pirate music, do it via bittorrent - at least don't bl**dy pay some Russian mafiosi for it!

A

Matt B
2007-07-05, 04:59
and hello to mp3Sparks.com

and goodbye it would seem!

bflatmajor
2007-07-05, 08:03
I stumbled onto this site and they have flac files.
You can only download their files via a bittorrent client.
I just go the latest Police reunion concert from them..Damn Good.

http://www.thetradersden.org/index.php?

btw, you will to signup/create an account to do anything.

Good luck.

bephillips
2007-07-11, 20:16
In addition to the traders den mentioned above, www.dimeadozen.org and www.bt.etree.org are great resources for lots of different kinds of unreleased live recordings. With the ease of distribution offered by bittorent, lots of stuff that used to be only available to fanatic collectors of esoterica is now generally available. Both amazing recordings from the past as well as some cool concert from a few days ago. I have posted several of my recordings on dimeadozen, search for user bephillips to see them.

For people downloading live shows, I refer you to my discussion of foobar2000's Live Show Tagger.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35676