PDA

View Full Version : Linksys's new "Slim-killer"



kewe65
2006-02-24, 19:41
Linksys has a new product out called an "audio bridge"

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1137451822026&packedargs=site%3DUS&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper

This device has software that allows you to use *ANY* media playing software to stream over your existing wireless network to the stereo of choice. By definition, I should be able to use JRiver Media Center to stream wirelessly over 54g to my stereo any file format that software plays, which includes Apple's .m4p...

I've been engaging in several lengthy discussions on this forum over the streaming of any audio source to the SqueezeBox, such as:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20083&page=9
and
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=18764&page=4

This product and it's associated software claims to do exactly what i was hoping the SlimServer software could accomplish to warrant purchasing the hardware.

I have one on order so haven't tried it out yet, but the reviews look promising.

If there was one single thing on the "what's next" list for Slim, it ought to be this sort of capability. The fact that this product was developed and put on the market should be evidence enough that there is *some* decent interest in getting any audio that is sent to your audio card also streamed wirelessly to the stereo.

andyg
2006-02-24, 19:46
Looks more like an AirTunes competitor, not a SB competitor. :)

snarlydwarf
2006-02-24, 19:52
It has serious limitations that make it useless for me (and many others probably):

The first two are related. This device behaves exactly as a Long Cable From Your Sound Card would behave:
1) No display.
2) No remote.

I have no PC in the living room, and none in my bedroom. I would have to walk across the house to play music in the bedroom.

3) Windows Only.
4) Limit of one device per PC. If I wanted sound in the bedroom, I'd have to have a second PC to serve it.

I would still have no use for it.

I don't see the benefit of it at all, actually. Since you need a genuine Windows PC to control it, you're bringing a PC into your listening space, at which point you may as well just run the PC sound card outputs to your amp and save the money. (Unless you like running into another room to queue up some tracks, hit the 'play' button, and then run back to your listening room.)

nelamvr6
2006-02-24, 19:54
The link to the data sheet wasn't working so I couldn't really find out too much about it. Nowhere does what I was able to read talk about the type and/or quality of the on board DAC or whether or not digital out is available for use with an external DAC.


As of right this minute I'd have to agree with andyg's assessment.

jonheal
2006-02-24, 20:04
Linksys has a new product out called an "audio bridge"

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1137451822026&packedargs=site%3DUS&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper

This device has software that allows you to use *ANY* media playing software to stream over your existing wireless network to the stereo of choice. By definition, I should be able to use JRiver Media Center to stream wirelessly over 54g to my stereo any file format that software plays, which includes Apple's .m4p...

I've been engaging in several lengthy discussions on this forum over the streaming of any audio source to the SqueezeBox, such as:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20083&page=9
and
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=18764&page=4

This product and it's associated software claims to do exactly what i was hoping the SlimServer software could accomplish to warrant purchasing the hardware.

I have one on order so haven't tried it out yet, but the reviews look promising.

If there was one single thing on the "what's next" list for Slim, it ought to be this sort of capability. The fact that this product was developed and put on the market should be evidence enough that there is *some* decent interest in getting any audio that is sent to your audio card also streamed wirelessly to the stereo.
You know what? I don't even care.

It's innevitable -- there will be competing devices. There may come easier to use or better engineered devices. But the SqueezeBox works for me and I'm happy with it, and more importantly, with Slim Devices, as a company. Try getting some personal attention from Cisco/Linksys. I doubt they have the time or resources to give an airborne act of copulation about you.

At one time, there was something called brand loyalty. Companies often sit on their laurels (or worse), and abuse that loyalty, but at least at this point, if there was ever a company that was earning its brand loyatly, it's Slim.

The American consumer needs to rediscover the notion that when you buy something, you're not just buying a product at the lowest price, or that's easiest to get, or whatever; you're buying a product from someone.

JJZolx
2006-02-24, 20:42
If there was one single thing on the "what's next" list for Slim, it ought to be this sort of capability. The fact that this product was developed and put on the market should be evidence enough that there is *some* decent interest in getting any audio that is sent to your audio card also streamed wirelessly to the stereo.
For $87 (on Amazon) it sounds like it might be worth checking out. I don't really see it as an SB competitor, but I'd also be surprised if something like this didnt't satisfy the needs of 90% of the people just looking for a way to play music from their PCs on their stereo systems.

By far the biggest advantage would be in terms of software. Both the software for music playback and the music itself. Use I-Tunes, J.River, foobar, Winamp, Windows Media Player, any software you like. Maybe more importantly DRMed music is no problem. Anything you've configured your PC to play, you can stream.

Just imagining of all the software they _don't_ have to write is mind boggling.

You could have a $300 Squeezebox do the same thing as this $87 device if Slim Devices would just write a Windows device driver to do it, but I'm not sure if that makes any sense given the huge cost difference. It would only appeal to buyers who feel that a) the Squeezebox sounds better and b) it's worth paying an extra $200 for that sound quality. That's got to be a pretty small crowd.

dijon
2006-02-24, 21:38
my god it's gorgeous! those colors! that display! i must have one!

stinkingpig
2006-02-24, 21:49
>
> Linksys has a new product out called an "audio bridge"
>
> http://tinyurl.com/fv6pj
>
> This device has software that allows you to use *ANY* media playing
> software to stream over your existing wireless network to the stereo of
> choice. By definition, I should be able to use JRiver Media Center to
> stream wirelessly over 54g to my stereo any file format that software
> plays, which includes Apple's .m4p...
>

That's great if it fits your needs, good luck with it!

For me, not so much. Virtual sound card, windows only, will probably play
those annoying IE clicks and "you've got mail!" over your stereo. No
display, no remote, no computerless usage. Oh, and it's a Linksys -- the
people who've produced two DOA's and two "damaged-but-barely-functionals"
that I've bought. I might pay more for a Squeezebox, but I know it will
work or be replaced if it doesn't.

--
Jack Coates At Monkeynoodle Dot Org: It's A Scientific Venture!
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin, so across the Western
ocean I must wander" - traditional

joncourage
2006-02-24, 22:44
1 device to 1 computer correlation would strike me as a deal-killer.

Also, I'd be a bit skeptical about the audio quality out of a networking-oriented company... but who knows?

Display and remote aren't huge things for me.

And while at first I didn't really "get" or appreciate slimserver, I now really understand the massive benefits of a tag-database-based interface - the practical organizational benefits of this design makes tags truly useful to me for the first time and provide by far the best playback and music-access interface of any PC-based player I've ever used (and prying me away from WinAmp was no small task), even though the actual GUI can be a bit klunky. The webserver implementation is also a great thing, really making client-side device control both generic and very portable, and is a huge convenience with a ton of sex-appeal.

odysseus
2006-02-25, 02:10
Hey, if you're happy with that concept, then you don't even need to pay for an expensive wireless bridge thingy, you might as well just get a USB sound card FM transmitter. I've got one at the moment and it works OK, just set up your mp3 player to direct to the usb sound device and not your normal sound card and it broadcasts over FM to your stereo. Same effect but broadcasts to all your stereos at once, only FM quality sound, but still has the same major drawback: you can only control it from your PC, which is why I put my order in for an SB3 last week :-)

Besides, running Linux I figure I can configure some way to pipe any sound I want to streamcast or something and get Slimserver to pick that up.

John.

fairyliquidizer
2006-02-25, 09:24
Linksys has a new product out called an "audio bridge"

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1137451822026&packedargs=site%3DUS&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper

This device has software that allows you to use *ANY* media playing software to stream over your existing wireless network to the stereo of choice. By definition, I should be able to use JRiver Media Center to stream wirelessly over 54g to my stereo any file format that software plays, which includes Apple's .m4p...

I've been engaging in several lengthy discussions on this forum over the streaming of any audio source to the SqueezeBox, such as:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20083&page=9
and
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=18764&page=4

This product and it's associated software claims to do exactly what i was hoping the SlimServer software could accomplish to warrant purchasing the hardware.

I have one on order so haven't tried it out yet, but the reviews look promising.

If there was one single thing on the "what's next" list for Slim, it ought to be this sort of capability. The fact that this product was developed and put on the market should be evidence enough that there is *some* decent interest in getting any audio that is sent to your audio card also streamed wirelessly to the stereo.


The only thing I'm interested in here is how does JRiver Media Centre handle the .m4p files? I looked on their website and couldn't find an answer.

Fairy

joek
2006-02-25, 10:41
Linksys music bridge will make its way to BestBuy, CC, CompUSA, etc... where Linksys has a big marketing presence. That should help boost their sales.

I had not prior knowledge of slimdevices and came across them when researching the Roku box. Being able to buy Roku in BestBuy had some appeal because of the fact I could return it easily if it didn't meet expectations. Of course the SB 30 day guarantee fixed that.

There are consumers out there that don't do research prior to buying and therefore may not know of the existence of the SB.

BTW, I own two SB3's and am generally happy with them. IMO, I think they are a bit pricey and the overall solution could be more robust.

fairyliquidizer
2006-02-26, 09:22
BTW, I own two SB3's and am generally happy with them. IMO, I think they are a bit pricey and the overall solution could be more robust.

I have to agree with you here, I am also very happy with my SB3. Expensive product at the UK price but it does what it says on the tin and the sound quality is fantastic (which means a lot to me). The plugins have taken it's capabilities much further (AlienBBC, MusicMagic Mixer, and LastFM/Audioscrobbler). Little touches like Wake On Lan are great.

The only thing that I'd like to see was some support for DRM. I know others will think this just encourages the DRM pushers but I would personally find it quite useful. Still it's not the end of the world as not supporting it encourages me to get CDs and not buy the DRM infested lossy junk online :)

Fairy

PS- I'm still wondering if anyone has tried JRiver Media Centre with .m4p and if so how it works :)

BeerCan
2006-02-26, 09:52
The American consumer needs to rediscover the notion that when you buy something, you're not just buying a product at the lowest price, or that's easiest to get, or whatever; you're buying a product from someone.


Man I could not agree more. I preach and preach to my family and friends the benifits of purchasing from the small guy (of course that business actually has to care).

In addition when looking for my solution, I probably could have made due with a soundbridge or other device. It was slim's commitment to opensource and community that led to my ultimate purchase of a SB. I would rather spend a $100 more on a company that actually gives a rats ass about its customers.

funkstar
2006-02-26, 11:26
It was slim's commitment to opensource and community that led to my ultimate purchase of a SB. I would rather spend a $100 more on a company that actually gives a rats ass about its customers.
And don't forget the 10% donation to the EFF (http://www.eff.org/)

Michaelwagner
2006-02-27, 18:10
an iPod killer?
http://www.pulse24.com/Business/Top_Story/20060226-001/page.asp

And on this site, the product code is SWIMP3!

http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/search.do?productCode=SWIMP3

Michael, did you have anything to do with this?

http://www.swissbit.com/haupt.asp?nv=2323&spr=2

http://www.swissarmy.com/MultiTools/Product.htm?category=swissmemory&product=53191&

avaloncourt
2006-02-27, 20:20
The first two are related. This device behaves exactly as a Long Cable From Your Sound Card would behave:
1) No display.
2) No remote.


That's precisely why I bought the SB. I've used the music serving in Tivo, Linkplayer2 and other approaches and it came down to needing to have the TV on to select music or see what's playing. I just wanted something that sounded good and stood on its own. The SB certainly accomplishes that.

snarlydwarf
2006-02-27, 23:28
The Dlink doesn't have a TV display either... it just takes sound output through virtual device driver, wraps it in IP and sends it to the device...

As someone else pointed out, that will include all the bleeps and bloops and clicks that Windows likes to make, too...

The device baffles me because I really do see no use for it at all. This PC I'm typing on is just around the corner from where I listen to music most of the time.. I could put an amp in here and run speaker wire into there... and it would sound fine... but.. I'd have to get my ass off the couch to change songs.

Ick.

Back to the couch now, in fact. :P

edit: (oops, not dlink, linksys.. whatever, it's still just a virtual speaker wire.)

JJZolx
2006-02-27, 23:50
The device baffles me because I really do see no use for it at all. This PC I'm typing on is just around the corner from where I listen to music most of the time.. I could put an amp in here and run speaker wire into there... and it would sound fine... but.. I'd have to get my ass off the couch to change songs.
I queue music to play on the SB in my listening room from the PC in my office. I can't stand using the Squeezebox remote. If I'm playing music in random mode, which I do occasionally, all I need the remote for is to skip a song. Some day I'll get a PDA or small laptop to use mostly for controlling the Squeezebox, but until then using a PC in another room is the more attractive control method for me.

Here's another example. About a year and half ago, before I got my first SB1, my buddy was looking for a way to play music on the PC in his office to his stereo in his living room. On someone else's recommendation, he ended up making up some very inexpensive interconnects out of Cat5 cabling - something like 75' or so to get from the office, over a sunroom and into the living room.

When I got my Squeezebox, he saw it, and was very impressed by it. I suggested that it would ideal for his system, but the $300 price tag floored him. He already had a 'solution' that cost him less than $20. Had the LinkSys with a price tag of under $90 been available at the time, no doubt it would have been a much more likely candidate.

mherger
2006-02-28, 01:34
> Michael, did you have anything to do with this?

No. Though I love my knife (bought it as a boy, over 20 years ago, from my
pocket money :-)) and my music collection, I never tried to bring them
together.

BTW: strange to see "Swiss Army" as a strong brand on the international
market. None of these products has ever seen our army. The knives we get
aren't red and don't feature neither mp3 player nor (even more
restrictive) corkscrew. :-)

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------
Help translate SlimServer by using the
SlimString Translation Helper (http://www.herger.net/slim/)

stinkingpig
2006-02-28, 09:52
....
>
> When I got my Squeezebox, he saw it, and was very impressed by it. I
> suggested that it would ideal for his system, but the $300 price tag
> floored him. He already had a 'solution' that cost him less than $20.
> Had the LinkSys with a price tag of under $90 been available at the
> time, no doubt it would have been a much more likely candidate.
....

<CaptainObvious>Different people have different needs, and therefore
different products are introduced to the market. These products fail to
meet the needs of all people. News at 11!</CaptainObvious>

--
Jack Coates At Monkeynoodle Dot Org: It's A Scientific Venture!
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin, so across the Western
ocean I must wander" - traditional

Michaelwagner
2006-02-28, 10:24
BTW: strange to see "Swiss Army" as a strong brand on the international market. None of these products has ever seen our army. The knives we get aren't red and don't feature neither mp3 player nor (even more restrictive) corkscrew. :-)
Yeah, in the last few years, Victorinox (the makers of the "Swiss Army" brand) have really made inroads in mainstream America. It used to be only hikers and skiers knew the brand (we used them for years because the metal sided ones don't shatter in the depth of winter). Now everyone "knows" about them.

It's even more humourous that they have never seen the swiss army.

Of course, no one much outside of Switzerland has seen the swiss army recently either ........ :-)

JJZolx
2006-02-28, 10:27
> Different people have different needs, and therefore
> different products are introduced to the market. These
> products fail to meet the needs of all people.

Which was exactly my point. Dismissing a product outright because it doesn't do this or that to satisfy your needs is fairly meaningless.

I think a fair number of Squeezebox customers were looking for nothing more than a means of getting digital music on a computer at point A to play on their stereo at point B. A product that does this for less than 1/3 the cost will capture that segment of the market.

T
2006-02-28, 12:26
> Of course, no one much outside of Switzerland has seen the swiss army
> recently either ........ :-)

No, but we can mobilise 600,000 men within 24 hours.

And nobody in Switzerland talks about gun control or banning assault rifles
(everyone has one).

Tom

ModelCitizen
2006-02-28, 12:59
No, but we can mobilise 600,000 men within 24 hours.


Yeah, but most of them are gnomes
:-)

MC

Gildahl
2006-02-28, 13:55
I have a Linksys wireless router and cable modem which have served me very well. Basically, hardware products that sit on your desk and don't change much beyond a few dull firmware updates. About two years ago I purchased their WMA-11B wireless media adapter. It worked great, did what it was supposed to do with no frills, and that was it. There were one or two very dull firmware updates, but no really new or enhanced functionality. In fact, it was never even updated to work properly with SP2. It was a nice product; it's just that it passed way too quickly into obsolescence.

My two new SB3s and the SlimServer software are remarkable by comparison. Not just the devices and software, but the incredible community and sense of commitment by the maker. The only other device that has given me this kind of satisfaction has been my TiVo. With the SB3, I can be reasonably confident of continual improvements and a respectable lifetime.

I'm sure the new Linksys music bridge will work pretty well right out of the box, but I wouldn't expect much added value in the days beyond that.

mherger
2006-03-01, 01:59
> Yeah, but most of them are gnomes :-)

Never call me a gnome again! :-)

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------
Help translate SlimServer by using the
SlimString Translation Helper (http://www.herger.net/slim/)

NWP
2006-03-02, 08:27
1 device to 1 computer correlation would strike me as a deal-killer.

I agree.



1) No display.
2) No remote.


This is really what I am looking for: a Squeezebox with no display nor remote that is more affordable than the regular Squeezebox. The Squeezebox is a beautiful piece of hardware, but for a few rooms I would just want something that I can control with the web interface via a pocketPC or a touchpad.

When I read the thread title, I was hoping this would be what I have been looking for, but it is not.

kewe65
2006-03-03, 12:16
>
> Linksys has a new product out called an "audio bridge"
>
> http://tinyurl.com/fv6pj
>
> This device has software that allows you to use *ANY* media playing
> software to stream over your existing wireless network to the stereo of
> choice. By definition, I should be able to use JRiver Media Center to
> stream wirelessly over 54g to my stereo any file format that software
> plays, which includes Apple's .m4p...
>

That's great if it fits your needs, good luck with it!

For me, not so much. Virtual sound card, windows only, will probably play
those annoying IE clicks and "you've got mail!" over your stereo. No
display, no remote, no computerless usage. Oh, and it's a Linksys -- the
people who've produced two DOA's and two "damaged-but-barely-functionals"
that I've bought. I might pay more for a Squeezebox, but I know it will
work or be replaced if it doesn't.


Im apprehensive of Linksys myself and would easily pay the $300 for the Squeezebox if it had similar s/w support

kewe65
2006-03-03, 12:21
Precisely. I fail to see what's so new or revolutionary about it.

I stopped investing in soundcard-based sound long ago due to poor audio quality.

how does the Squeezebox remove the streaming from your computer?

this device does not connect to the soundcard - uses the same principles as Squeezebox in that it streams audio via ethernet to your wireless networking devices.

and - in response to mr. snarly - does not require another PC in the room where you want to listen to it.

it only requires this device hooked up to the stereo in the room you want it.

i do see that it's limitation is that you can't have two different audio sources playing in two different rooms...

kewe65
2006-03-03, 12:22
The only thing I'm interested in here is how does JRiver Media Centre handle the .m4p files? I looked on their website and couldn't find an answer.

Fairy

JRiver Music Center (and others) use the QuickTime API to play M4P files...

You must have Quicktime installed to use JRiver (and the others)

snarlydwarf
2006-03-03, 12:46
and - in response to mr. snarly - does not require another PC in the room where you want to listen to it.


Sure it does unless you like playing "queue up some songs, run across the house to listen."

Personally, I like being comfortable and relaxed when listening to music. I don't like the concept of running across the house to see what song is playing or to choose a different song.

That would mean having a PC in the same room to control it.

kewe65
2006-03-24, 09:39
[QUOTE=snarlydwarf]Sure it does unless you like playing "queue up some songs, run across the house to listen."

Personally, I like being comfortable and relaxed when listening to music. I don't like the concept of running across the house to see what song is playing or to choose a different song.

That would mean having a PC in the same room to control it.[/QUOTE

Personally, i can't see how the Squeezebox solves that problem. It's screen doesn't allow you to browse through the collection you have on the computer that is distributing the music. So, i think that Squeezebox or not, your comment applies.

However, I finally acquired this music bridge product. Here's my feedback on its performance relative to how I had intended to use the Squeezebox.

First, my home and audio configuration: I have a very old house with lathe and plaster walls, which induces a great deal of interference with wireless in general.
The stereo/listening room is at one end and the computer with audio is at the other end - about 125 feet away. So, even the SuperG or MIMO technology struggles a bit to get from computer to stereo, though the D-Link MIMO router Im using works much better even without a range expander than the Linksys G router with expander.

The Music Bridge was moderate in ability to set-up and get running. It uses a C-Media Wireless audio driver and allows you to switch between sending sound to the Music Bridge or leaving sound at the computer. Three areas of complaint:
1. Sends *all* audio to the Bridge, including any system sounds such as new IM messages.
2. Will not allow simultaneous sound with PC and stereo.
3. When trying to move sound back to PC, it requires some manually fiddling on my part to get the PC sound reinstated. I have five total audio drivers and the Bridge software doesn't like anything other than the Soundmax and C-Media drivers - crashes when any others are the active driver.

These are relatively minor annoyances, however.

How *I* use the Bridge now and how I had planned to use the Squeezebox is thus:
I take my laptop into the listening room, connect to the PC at the other end of the house via Remote Desktop, fire up either Music! or Music Library or stream a radio station from the PC - anything that I want to listen to that's accessible from the PC - and its being routed to the stereo where I sit.

This is exactly what I was looking for. I can go to eMusic.com and browse for new music, listen to samples. Or decide to switch right there and launch Real Alternative to listen to a radio station. I can browse the 800 CDs that are in my two Sony Mega Changers and play that along with iTunes files via Music!.

The software has a setting for using multiple bridges and I tried the software on both PC and laptop. It seems it will allow for the same sound from the PC to go to multiple bridges, but I haven't tested that. It would be nice if you could send different audio to different bridges, but I just don't have the need. The significant annoyance for me is not being able to play one type of audio at the PC room while someone else is listening to different audio in the stereo room. I expect future versions of the product and s/w to cover that, so long as the product survives and that's certainly a TBD.

With the D-Link MIMO router - DI-634M - i rarely get a dropped signal, usually a sub-second blip (it happened twice in the two hours I listened to it last night). I was getting more drop-outs with the Linksys router...

I don't have to "queue up songs and run across the houst". I do all the queueing and browsing via the laptop.

So, from a gap perspective, relative to my implementation, the Squeezebox lacks in the ability to allow me to play any source connected to the PC. The Bridge doesn't allow sound at both PC and stereo. Other than that, there are no gaps yet - I would be using a touchscreen or laptop in the listening room anyway.

I think it's nice that the Squeezebox tells you what's playing but you still need to run back to the PC if there are sources it can't switch to or you want to browse.

The touchscreen will make a nice compliment given it allows Remote Desktop connection - Viewsonic's will since it runs XP and is designed for that type of application. Don't know about others....

Michaelwagner
2006-03-24, 09:44
I browse with the little screen on the squeezebox all the time.

Why do you think this can't be done?

kewe65
2006-03-24, 11:33
I browse with the little screen on the squeezebox all the time.

Why do you think this can't be done?

What I consider browsing is looking at a variably-sortable 'datasheet' of song, artist and title or jukebox selection showing a dozen or so albums along with album covers.

I have not actually seen the display of the squeezebox, but i can tell that there are only so many lines you can look at at one time.

The idea that slimserver supports handhelds and the browser connection is more akin to filling the gap im referencing. I use a laptop with a Remote Desktop connection to the PC as opposed to using the laptop browser to connect to slimserver.

snarlydwarf
2006-03-24, 11:49
I have not actually seen the display of the squeezebox, but i can tell that there are only so many lines you can look at at one time.


So, you haven't used it, yet you feel fit to condemn the UI that you haven't used....

The SB UI is actually very well laid out, and trivial to control from a plain old remote.

Maybe this is too direct: if the SB and Slimserver don't answer your needs, why on earth do you keep coming back here? I mean, every day there are MILLIONS of web sites that I don't go to because, well, they don't match my needs. MILLIONS.

And I never ever anticipate going to a Ford F-150 forum to explain why a pickup truck just doesn't suit me, and why I happen to like my Nissan better...

Why do you feel the need to hang around the forums for a product that you say doesn't suit your needs?

kewe65
2006-03-24, 12:48
So, you haven't used it, yet you feel fit to condemn the UI that you haven't used....

The SB UI is actually very well laid out, and trivial to control from a plain old remote.

Maybe this is too direct: if the SB and Slimserver don't answer your needs, why on earth do you keep coming back here? I mean, every day there are MILLIONS of web sites that I don't go to because, well, they don't match my needs. MILLIONS.

And I never ever anticipate going to a Ford F-150 forum to explain why a pickup truck just doesn't suit me, and why I happen to like my Nissan better...

Why do you feel the need to hang around the forums for a product that you say doesn't suit your needs?

Okay, Nurse Ratched. You pose these self-aggrandizing messages questioning my intent that I have answered - to you directly in these forums even - repeatedly.

I have not "condemned" anything. My criticism has been constructive the entire time. I've launched the same level of criticism at competing products even in my post above.

Instead of reading my posts as negativity toward the product you zealously covet, why can't you approach this as a way to help move the product toward support to a wider audience?

Apparently you are not interested in more customers or expanded capability - you really only can handle positive comments that fit your myopic and static view of Squeezebox.

God forbid someone who likes the basic concept of Squeezebox but is voting for more capability than it already has. And watch out anyone who would dare to show how competitors are handling these obvious customer requests. Isn't that part of a forum discussion?

autopilot
2006-03-24, 12:54
kewe65, you really have no idea about what you are talking about. You can browse all the music on your server very nicely. It's better than the ipod interface for browsing music, playlists etc. So it does not have a colour screen for album covers, big deal, i dont want to anyway. Most of us dont want to carry a laptop around or have the PC in the living room, that just dumb when you can just have a cable.

The only use for this i can see is getting music to multiple rooms, with a master SB3 in the main room controling what music is sent to the rooms. Although that said, you would only be able to have the same music in all rooms and sound quality would be poor.

Anyway, there are better solution for this than one of those. It's nothing but an over-priced wireless phono lead. I dont think you even understand what an SB3 is or does.



I think it's nice that the Squeezebox tells you what's playing but you still need to run back to the PC if there are sources it can't switch to or you want to browse.

What on earth are you talking about? I NEVER have to run back to my PC, unless i want to rip a new CD. I can listen to one of thusands of internet radio stations and even play a CD thats in my CDROM (not that i ever do) all from the confort of my living room without the need to drag my laptop around.


These products are worlds appart. In fact i dont even put them in the same catagory. Glad you are happy with your purchace, but please go away and don't come back until you have tried using an SB3.

Your lack of knowledge and ignorance is making you look like a fool. People are not SB zealots, they are telling to stop making silly asumptions and comparing to products that cant really be compared.

Slim Killer? Get a grip of reality man.

kewe65
2006-03-24, 13:14
kewe65, you really have no idea about what you are talking about. You can browse all the music on your server very nicely. It's better than the ipod interface for browsing music, playlists etc. So it does not have a colour screen for album covers, big deal, i dont want to anyway. Most of us dont want to carry a laptop around or have the PC in the living room, that just dumb when you can just have a cable.

The only use for this i can see is getting music to multiple rooms, with a master SB3 in the main room controling what music is sent to the rooms. Although that said, you would only be able to have the same music in all rooms and sound quality would be poor.

Anyway, there are better solution for this than one of those. It's nothing but an over-priced wireless phono lead. I dont think you even understand what an SB3 is or does.

These products are worlds appart. In fact i dont even put them in the same catagory. Glad you are happy with your purchace, but please go away and don't come back until you have tried using an SB3.

Slim Killer? Get a grip of reality man.

Whatever. You go into the camp of "don't dare criticize what I shelled out $300 for."

I said upfront that based on *my* particular use. So what if you want to use it one particular way or another. Actually, you are criticizing a use supported by SB3 - through the browser and handhelds. So what if you don't want to use a laptop or handheld - some SB3 customers do, hence the support.

Must be nice not wanting to see SB3 find more ways to be used.

Im exhausted saying the same thing over and over: "the attraction to SB3 is its opensource software", but apparently discussing where it could expand is not acceptable on this forum. you and mr. snarly really are trying to redefine "opensource" by shooing away any suggestions.

The only two topics that I actually initiated were asking if slimserver could or ever would support all file types and bringing up that other vendors are trying to address the first topic in different ways.

so, you actually don't have a clue about what i was talking about. i can see the SB3 display plainly in the product view. please do post or send some screen shots showing me how i can browse dozens of lines of music data in the SB3 UI and sort columns of this data on the fly. that's the only "gap" comment i've made.

i will concede that "slim killer" was a bit much. for that i will apologize to other forum readers.

JJZolx
2006-03-24, 13:16
How *I* use the Bridge now and how I had planned to use the Squeezebox is thus:
I take my laptop into the listening room, connect to the PC at the other end of the house via Remote Desktop, fire up either Music! or Music Library or stream a radio station from the PC - anything that I want to listen to that's accessible from the PC - and its being routed to the stereo where I sit.
This rather seems to defeat the simplicity of the Music Bridge, which is no doubt one of its stronger selling points. Why not just put the sound driver on the laptop and use it to stream music to the device sitting in the same room? Using remote desktop to another system seems awfully convoluted when you're holding a PC in your lap. It's even more baffling why you'd do this if you have challenging wireless conditions in your home.

kewe65
2006-03-24, 13:18
Although that said, you would only be able to have the same music in all rooms and sound quality would be poor.


I already mentioned that first item was a gap.
But, how do you know the sound quality would be poor? The sound is getting to the stereo over the same wireless protocol used by Slimserver. Both have digital outs to the stereo.

kewe65
2006-03-24, 13:23
This rather seems to defeat the simplicity of the Music Bridge, which is no doubt one of its stronger selling points. Why not just put the sound driver on the laptop and use it to stream music to the device sitting in the same room? Using remote desktop to another system seems awfully convoluted when you're holding a PC in your lap. It's even more baffling why you'd do this if you have challenging wireless conditions in your home.

That's a great question. And the set-up does seem somewhat convoluted.

However, all the audio files and audio equipment connections are on the PC in the other room.

I tried the sound drive on the laptop, but it does require having the files on the laptop. I could make the laptop the primary storage for the files but that doesn't make sense for the audio equipment that is wired to the PC.

Strangely, the signal from the PC through the router and wirelessly to the Bridge 125 feet away was better than the wireless signal from the laptop to the bridge 5 feet away.

I'm always open for suggestions - hardware locations can't be changed. I think the addition of the MIMO router has helped. Perhaps its just the product, but the wireless-G is better with the D-Link, so in that regard I dont think id have an issue with the SB3 anymore.

kewe65
2006-03-24, 13:48
kewe65, you really have no idea about what you are talking about. You can browse all the music on your server very nicely. It's better than the ipod interface for browsing music, playlists etc. So it does not have a colour screen for album covers, big deal, i dont want to anyway. Most of us dont want to carry a laptop around or have the PC in the living room, that just dumb when you can just have a cable.


Lets try this a different way. According to Slimdevices.com specs, the SB3 display supports:
* Large, high-resolution vacuum fluorescent display
* 320x32 greyscale pixels
* Beautiful high-speed, full-screen visualizers
* Bitmapped graphics, multiple fonts, animation, and images
* Brightness control

The remote allows:
* Includes "SmartScroll" algorithms to quickly access favorite songs within large lists

Laptop screen supports:
depending on screen resolution, frequently larger than 800x600 color pixels.

*That* was my only comment on comparing browsing. I can see and sort, even with a remote control, dozens of lines - in fact all 4000 songs - at once.

Despite that i'd still purchase a SB3 in wink if Slimserver would support or use the Quicktime API to playback Apple DRM files.

snarlydwarf
2006-03-24, 13:53
I said upfront that based on *my* particular use. So what if you want to use it one particular way or another. Actually, you are criticizing a use supported by SB3 - through the browser and handhelds. So what if you don't want to use a laptop or handheld - some SB3 customers do, hence the support.


Very few use remote desktops to control a server.

A web browser is not the same as a remote desktop and you know that.

You can not control the Linksys from a web browser. You can't run VNC on a PSP or Nokia770.



Im exhausted saying the same thing over and over: "the attraction to SB3 is its opensource software", but apparently discussing where it could expand is not acceptable on this forum. you and mr. snarly really are trying to redefine "opensource" by shooing away any suggestions.


And you're definining "opensource" as "Please make this conform to my needs, even if it's not yours. You owe me." My interest in writing device drivers for Windows is less than zero. My interest in dragging around a laptop in order to control my music is less than zero.

That's not what Open Source is.

Hint: "Show me the code."

The attraction to the Squeezebox is, for me: great sound quality, no need for a PC (including laptops, since for you a laptop isn't a PC) to be in my listening areas, centralized music storage (so I have access to the same library in the living room, bedroom, office and work), and it needs to run on Linux: I will never trust Windows for a server.

If you're exhausted, then, please, go to the Linksys forums and tell them about all the stuff in the Linksys you don't like and demand that they shape it the way you want it.

autopilot
2006-03-24, 13:58
Whatever. You go into the camp of "don't dare criticize what I shelled out $300 for."

Lol, far from it. I'm no fanboy and spent a long time looking at various solutions. Other than the Sono's, which is very expensive, there is really nothing that comes close to the SB3. If there was something better i would have got that. Thats not to say the SB3 is perfect, but Slim Devices and a good base of third party open source developers are constantly working to make it better.

It's not that you criticize the Squeezebox thats gets me, it's the fact that you have never used one and that but you have come out with some facts that are just plain wrong.

You logic and thinking would have me spend even more money on a laptop or PDA, and still not be as good.

As for sound quality, the fact that you say that it will be comparable to the SB3 because they use the same wireless protocol just serves further prove you have not got a clue what you are talking about.

bklaas
2006-03-24, 13:59
You can not control the Linksys from a web browser. You can't run VNC on a PSP or Nokia770.


I have no interest in getting involved in this snippy battle, but I do want to point out that VNC viewer *and* server are available for the Nokia 770.

http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog#head-13a1a000b7010518abcdcf9ec1ce3f4af4f39c44

snarlydwarf
2006-03-24, 14:07
ewww.... scary. :)

(Though I will forgive them for that... I still want a 770... but it's a far cry from a 7-10lb laptop.)

autopilot
2006-03-24, 15:12
...
Laptop screen supports:
depending on screen resolution, frequently larger than 800x600 color pixels.

*That* was my only comment on comparing browsing.

Er, no. You made a few other comments regarding browing, such as...


It's screen doesn't allow you to browse through the collection you have on the computer that is distributing the music.

It does, perfectly fine. Keep digging and the hole just gets bigger.


I can see and sort, even with a remote control, dozens of lines - in fact all 4000 songs - at once.

Well that puts you in the 0.001% of people that really want that. Not sure why to be honest, but fair enough if you require that. Once the music is sorted and tagged, it just a case of choosing the album or playlist very quickly and easily with the remote. Most ablums only have 10-15 tracks, so it not a big deal. Why would you need to see all on the screen at once. I think that i would have to get to about 10,000 CD's before searching became such a chore that i would consider you solution. But then i would probably build a media server for the living room as, A) It would still be cheaper than a laptop yet do more (like PVR functionality) and, B) I don't know of any laptops with hard disks large enough (especially as i prefer FLAC).

Still, that does not change the fact that this device you have is still redundant. If you carry you laptop to a room, why not just get a good cable solution for a fraction of the price?



Despite that i'd still purchase a SB3 in wink if Slimserver would support or use the Quicktime API to playback Apple DRM files.

Well if you spend less time pimping your expensive wireless phono cable and read other threads, you may realise that the DRM issue is Apples fault, however SD are working on a solution which may be coming soon.

Honestly kewe65, find someone who has an SB3 a give it a go. I think you have a very bad and incomplete image in your mind of what it is really like to use one.

lordypieman
2006-03-24, 15:29
Kewe65 - you need to try one of these out before you close your mind to the fact that it might be a great product.

Lordypieman