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Kyle
2006-02-23, 14:00
Most boomboxes sell for, I'd guess, $150 to $250. A Slim boombox would be starting with a $300 streaming component and then you would have to add speakers, an amplifier and maybe CD and radio, too. Knowing the quality audio that Slim Devices likes to deliver, I doubt this would be entry-level equipment. So you're probably talking about, what, a $600+ boombox? Is there a market for such a device? Or are my cost assumptions incorrect? I would think they'd be taking a big chance on such a product.

radish
2006-02-23, 14:37
SB3 == $300. Add a T-amp ($20 or less in volume) and some decent small speakers (maybe $40 in volume) and you're set. If you really wanted a radio that's basically free, and a CD mechanism might be $10. I'd have thought $400 would do it quite nicely, less if you're willing to downgrade some of the SB3 internals such as the screen.

Steve Baumgarten
2006-02-23, 14:46
> Most boomboxes sell for, I'd guess, $150 to $250. A Slim boombox would
> be starting with a $300 streaming component and then you would have to
> add speakers, an amplifier and maybe CD and radio, too. Knowing the
> quality audio that Slim Devices likes to deliver, I doubt this would be
> entry-level equipment. So you're probably talking about, what, a $600+
> boombox? Is there a market for such a device?

If the Slimserver were modular, you could do it. In fact Sirius does
this now with some of their receivers. Basically they sell you:

1. The guts of the product (the receiver with display, DAC, amplifier)
all in a small package. By itself you can't do much of anything with this.

2. A home docking station with jacks for power, antenna, and RCA out to
your stereo.

3. A boombox that is nothing more than a pair of speakers and a slot for
the dockable receiver (see #1 above). (Also an antenna, needed for
Sirius but obviously not for a Squeezebox.)

4. A car mounting kit that's a lot like #2 above but tailored for cars.
(Obviously not applicable to the Squeezebox.)

This way you could amortize the cost of a single Squeezebox module
across two (or more) listening environments. Want to listen outside? Pop
out the SB, plug it into the boombox case and drop it on your deck. Done
for the day? Reverse the process -- the SB pops out of the boombox case
and gets plugged back into the home docking station (which would still
have all its cables hooked up for digital/analog audio outs, power, etc.).

The only other way to do it would be to design an all-in-one,
non-modular product that didn't add much more than about $100 or so to
the cost of the existing product. But I agree, as you point out, that's
serious money for something that isn't going to be used for primary
listening. Not a lot of people would be able to justify that.

So back to the modular argument. Another point in favor of this approach
is that, for what it's worth, the huge third-party iPod market works
exactly like this. In fact I have an Altec Lansing inMotion 3C in my
bathroom: it's nothing more than a couple of speakers and a dock. You
pop the iPod into the dock and suddenly you can listen to all your music
in a remote setting. It even has a rudimentary remote control that lets
you fast-forward, skip tracks, adjust volume. Cost? About $130.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009I6K7K/

The universal connector on the bottom of each iPod was key to the growth
of this market. None of it would be possible without it. But because it
exists you can buy boomboxes that work with your iPod, table radios that
work with your iPod, home receiver docks that work with your iPod. All
you need is 1 iPod for all these different uses, so your total cost
remains pretty reasonable.

That's the kind of thing I'd be looking for from Slimdevices. They'd
have to reengineer the Squeezebox (i.e., add a similar kind of universal
docking connector) for this kind of use, but I imagine that wouldn't be
too terribly difficult (easy for me to say, right, I only know from
software, not hardware).

Well, surely I'm allowed to dream, am I not? ;-)

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funkstar
2006-02-23, 15:28
...and maybe CD and radio, too...
and wouldn't that defeat half the purpose of having a Squeezebox in there?

*IF* there was to be a SqueezeBox BoomBox i would be very dissapointed if it had a conventional CD and radio in there too.

(not that i'm looking for one anyway, i just think it would be a waste to be honest)

Kevin O. Lepard
2006-02-23, 15:46
>*IF* there was to be a SqueezeBox BoomBox i would be very dissapointed
>if it had a conventional CD and radio in there too.

Interesting. My opinion is the opposite. If it is supposed to work
as a portable boombox, I think it would be worthless without a radio
and CD.

Kevin
--
Kevin O. Lepard

Happiness is being 100% Microsoft free.

Mark Lanctot
2006-02-23, 16:05
Now for a boombox there are a few things you could remove from the Squeezebox to bring the price down.

- all S/PDIF circuitry

- all analog outs except headphone

If you want S/PDIF or analog outs you would best get a Squeezebox.

That would shave a bit off the price I think. It would probably not be enough to balance the cost of the amp, speakers, batteries etc. though.

EnochLight
2006-02-23, 19:53
Interesting. My opinion is the opposite. If it is supposed to work
as a portable boombox, I think it would be worthless without a radio and CD.

Kevin
--
Kevin O. Lepard

Happiness is being 100% Microsoft free.

Meh... I'm of the camp that a CD player would be worthless since the whole point of the Squeezebox/SlimServer is to host your ripped CD's on a server for a Squeezebox to playback. And with Internet radio, an analog for local is worthless to me. But hey, I'm just one opinion.

Cheers!

---

Happiness is humping Microsoft in the leg like a post-pubescent puppy.

I kid! I kid! ;-)

stinkingpig
2006-02-23, 20:26
Kyle wrote:
> Most boomboxes sell for, I'd guess, $150 to $250. A Slim boombox would
> be starting with a $300 streaming component and then you would have to
> add speakers, an amplifier and maybe CD and radio, too. Knowing the
> quality audio that Slim Devices likes to deliver, I doubt this would be
> entry-level equipment. So you're probably talking about, what, a $600+
> boombox? Is there a market for such a device? Or are my cost
> assumptions incorrect? I would think they'd be taking a big chance on
> such a product.
>

My target setup is a $300 Squeezebox with a $200-$300 pair of powered
speakers. So a Squeezeboombox that costs $500-$600 is in range with what
I'm doing now, only integrated.

I do want an FM tuner, I don't want a CD player, I don't want output
jacks if they're going to increase the cost, I do want a remote (the
shipping one, not something running its own OS).

Speaking of FM tuners, if the NBT is an integrated Slimserver platform,
slap a FM Tuner in that too. It's stupid to stream Internet radio of a
station that's broadcasting through your window.

--
Jack at Monkeynoodle dot Org: It's a Scientific Venture...
Riding the Emergency Third Rail Power Trip Since 1996

Marc Sherman
2006-02-24, 05:53
Jack Coates wrote:
>
> My target setup is a $300 Squeezebox with a $200-$300 pair of powered
> speakers. So a Squeezeboombox that costs $500-$600 is in range with what
> I'm doing now, only integrated.

I'd like to pay a bit less than that, say $400 tops.

> I do want an FM tuner, I don't want a CD player, I don't want output
> jacks if they're going to increase the cost, I do want a remote (the
> shipping one, not something running its own OS).

FM tuner is optional for me; I know my wife would really like one,
though. What's not optional for me is buttons on the device itself. If
it includes a remote as well, that's gravy.

- Marc

Michaelwagner
2006-02-24, 06:04
*IF* there was to be a SqueezeBox BoomBox i would be very dissapointed if it had a conventional CD and radio in there too.
Me too. It wouldn't make much sense.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-24, 06:05
If it is supposed to work as a portable boombox, I think it would be worthless without a radio and CD.

But you can stream the radio and CDs from the Slim Server. After all, that's how the slim server is supposed to work.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-24, 06:08
If you look at an SB3, it looks like much of the redesign was merely to get all the plugs facing the same way (so they could "dock"). Other than that, it's an SB2.

Kyle
2006-02-24, 07:00
IMO, Slim Devices would be crazy not to include a radio and CD player in any boombox design. How many people are going to buy a boombox that you can only use in your house and maybe your yard? Put in a tuner and CD player, and you can take it anywhere. The additional cost is not that great, and you've greatly enhanced usability.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-24, 07:42
I think they'd be smarter to put a small (80Gb) hard disk and a slug in it and make it self-contained when taken out of wifi range. Good software that allowed you to say "let me take all my beach music to the beach" and then downloaded from the Terabyte store we all have ( :-) ) 80Gb of beach music and you're good to go.

Same guts, different case, could go in my car. Same idea. When parked in the garage, connects via wifi (doesn't everyone have a hot spot in their garage) and downloads the latest - songs, podcasts, etc.

stinkingpig
2006-02-24, 22:02
>
> I think they'd be smarter to put a small (80Gb) hard disk and a slug in
> it and make it self-contained when taken out of wifi range. Good
> software that allowed you to say "let me take all my beach music to the
> beach" and then downloaded from the Terabyte store we all have ( :-) )
> 80Gb of beach music and you're good to go.
>

one of the design goals of a boombox is "rugged". It'd have to be a pretty
pricey hard drive /slug /sb / speaker combo to survive a spill out of the
back of the car into the parking lot :) To me the mobility is only
required for moving from room to room or backyard... important thing is
that it's all in one box so you can carry it around.

--
Jack Coates At Monkeynoodle Dot Org: It's A Scientific Venture!
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin, so across the Western
ocean I must wander" - traditional

MeSue
2006-02-28, 10:41
I think they'd be smarter to put a small (80Gb) hard disk and a slug in it and make it self-contained when taken out of wifi range.
I'd prefer something like a USB port or flash card slot so those who don't want the extra cost and/or weight of a hard drive could do without it.

Mitch Harding
2006-02-28, 12:55
I disagree.

For the money we're talking about, I'd want a device that isn't tethered to
my WiFi range. At the very least I'd want FM, but I'd be disappointed if it
didn't also have a CD player.

I like the proposed idea of having some kind of storage on board so you
could bring that music with you, but to me that wouldn't remove the need for
radio and CD. If a friend has a CD with them, it would be nice to be able
to play it.

On 2/24/06, Michaelwagner <
Michaelwagner.23qiyn1140786602 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
>
> funkstar Wrote:
> > *IF* there was to be a SqueezeBox BoomBox i would be very dissapointed
> > if it had a conventional CD and radio in there too.
> Me too. It wouldn't make much sense.
>
>
> --
> Michaelwagner
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michaelwagner's Profile:
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=428
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=21421
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>

ModelCitizen
2006-02-28, 13:06
Read this thread and it's simple to understand why SlimDevices will never produce a boombox.

MC

Steve Baumgarten
2006-02-28, 13:30
ModelCitizen wrote:

> Read this thread and it's simple to understand why SlimDevices will
> never produce a boombox.

Well, to counter that, I suggest you read this thread:

http://www.slimdevices.com/au_news.html

which goes all the way back to June of 2001 (scroll all the way down to
the bottom of the page). I believe those early entries are Sean's blog,
more or less. It's the portrait of someone doing something because it's
cool, because he wants to, and because no one else is doing it right (if
anyone else is doing it at all).

Included is this quote, from some early, favorable press:

It's nice to know that in this age of multinational conglomerates
there are still a few people working hard in their garages looking to
innovate. I came across the SLIMP3 recently, which is an example of
such entrepreneurship.

Nearly 5 years later (5 years!) and most other companies -- including
big, bad Apple -- are still noodling around at the edges of this still
nascent market.

My gut feeling is that a boombox format is cool, doable, and would be
like nothing anyone else has come up with yet. That defines the SB3.
Right now I'm ready for my next Slimdevices purchase, and I'm hoping
something equally interesting comes out of their "garage" and not just
an endless stream of cautious, incremental upgrades.

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CardinalFang
2006-02-28, 14:49
My gut feeling is that a boombox format is cool, doable, and would be like nothing anyone else has come up with yet. That defines the SB3. Right now I'm ready for my next Slimdevices purchase, and I'm hoping something equally interesting comes out of their "garage" and not just an endless stream of cautious, incremental upgrades.

Well,

I really, really don't want a boombox. The whole point of the SB3 to me is the high quality sound and if you are going down the boombox route, then why not go for one of the several lower-fi ones already out there? Or even the new Apple one.

I would much rather see a radical new audiophile SB, modular so that you could have a transport only for those of us with DACs. Still, it ain't my company and I already have that almost by modding the SB2.

Mitch Harding
2006-02-28, 15:00
The appeal of a boombox, for me, is:

- The ability to carry a music device anywhere around my house and listen to
music, as long as it's in Wifi range. With a SB this is possible if you
also carry around a small set of speakers (and possibly some form of battery
power) -- but this is less convenient, to me. Having a single unit boombox
that can run on batteries is much more convenient, I feel.

- The ability to use that same device for FM radio and/or CDs, which are the
other two ways I might reasonably want to play music in a portable fashion.
This would make the device useful away from home.

- Bonus points if it has some (perhaps optional) form of portable disk
storage, so I can bring digital music with me away from home.

Yes, there are other devices that can cover each of these individually. I
want one device that can do it all. Audio quality would not be the
emphasis, since it's a boombox. Convenience and portability and ruggedness
would be my primary considerations.

On 2/28/06, CardinalFang <
CardinalFang.23ylpb1141163402 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
>
> Steve Baumgarten Wrote:
> > My gut feeling is that a boombox format is cool, doable, and would be
> > like nothing anyone else has come up with yet. That defines the SB3.
> > Right now I'm ready for my next Slimdevices purchase, and I'm hoping
> > something equally interesting comes out of their "garage" and not just
> > an endless stream of cautious, incremental upgrades.
>
> Well,
>
> I really, really don't want a boombox. The whole point of the SB3 to me
> is the high quality sound and if you are going down the boombox route,
> then why not go for one of the several lower-fi ones already out there?
> Or even the new Apple one.
>
> I would much rather see a radical new audiophile SB, modular so that
> you could have a transport only for those of us with DACs. Still, it
> ain't my company and I already have that almost by modding the SB2.
>
>
> --
> CardinalFang
>
> You're only young once, but you can be immature forever...
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> CardinalFang's Profile:
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=21421
>
>

Michaelwagner
2006-02-28, 17:01
I really, really don't want a boombox.
OK. We won't force you to buy one.



The whole point of the SB3 to me is the high quality sound and if you are going down the boombox route, then why not go for one of the several lower-fi ones already out there?

The whole point of the first SB3 (for my living room) is the audio quality.

The whole point of a boombox solution *given that I already have an SB3* is to have another one with the same user interface, same characteristics, same access methods.

I already have a Creative Zen. I hate the interface.

I have several SBs. I want a boombox that works the same way so I don't have to memorize yet another idiosyncratic interface if I take it with me (and another one for my car, and another one for my girlfriend's spa, and another one for work, and ...).

Get the picture? To me the interface (and the work I invested to learn it) is more important than the wasted audio quality in a portable implementation.

CardinalFang
2006-03-01, 02:14
Get the picture? To me the interface (and the work I invested to learn it) is more important than the wasted audio quality in a portable implementation.

Just because I don't want one doesn't make me the enemy!

The reason I don't want a Slim Boombox is because I don't think it would be done well enough for the audience it would be intended for. I don't need it and I know the rest of my family won't like it because they don't use my SB2 already because it's too Byzantine in its user interface - as you say, it has to be learnt. They pick up and play iTunes and iPods without missing a beat.

Slim is currently for enthusiasts like you and I who will invest some time in the quirks and setup for the audio quality possible. Take away the audio quality and it's just not worth it. Slim also should stay focussed on their core market IMHO, wasting money on side products that waste R&D time when the competition is pushing into their core market is a bad thing.

Still, that's just me. If everyone else wants one, then good luck to you all!

Paul

Michaelwagner
2006-03-01, 04:53
Just because I don't want one doesn't make me the enemy!
I didn't say it did. And I didn't mean to give that impression.


Slim is currently for enthusiasts like you and I who will invest some time in the quirks and setup for the audio quality possible. Take away the audio quality and it's just not worth it.
Actually, the audio quality isn't what drew me in.
I wanted an ethernet based music player, because I wanted to make a portable DJ system that didn't require me to carry 500 CDs around on my back. I'm getting older and as my interests change and my back gets weaker, more CDs on a weaker back wasn't working.

CardinalFang
2006-03-01, 08:47
I didn't say it did. And I didn't mean to give that impression.

"Get the picture?" came across as a bit aggressive to my obviously over sensitive read of your message. The joys of typed conversations eh? No matter, it wasn't intended to offend so the fault is with me.

Back to the boomboxes though, I guess I'm in the minority here. I certainly don't want the Apple boombox, especially at that price. I did like the Sony Network player, but that would mean a re-export of all my music to MP3 and a confusing doubling up of libraries. The Roku has 802.11b and doesn't work with the latest SlimServer, so no thanks.

Unless the Slim one had DAB radio, a CD player and network music, then it means I need more than one box in the kitchen where this sort of thing would live. So it just doesn't make sense in my household. I suppose I won't buy it if it comes out, that's all.

Paul

kyleki
2006-03-01, 15:52
The appeal of a boombox, for me, is:

- The ability to carry a music device anywhere around my house and listen to
music, as long as it's in Wifi range. With a SB this is possible if you
also carry around a small set of speakers (and possibly some form of battery
power) -- but this is less convenient, to me. Having a single unit boombox
that can run on batteries is much more convenient, I feel.

- The ability to use that same device for FM radio and/or CDs, which are the
other two ways I might reasonably want to play music in a portable fashion.
This would make the device useful away from home.

- Bonus points if it has some (perhaps optional) form of portable disk
storage, so I can bring digital music with me away from home.

Yes, there are other devices that can cover each of these individually. I
want one device that can do it all. Audio quality would not be the
emphasis, since it's a boombox. Convenience and portability and ruggedness
would be my primary considerations.I couldn't agree more! You've taken the words right out of my mouth.


Actually, the audio quality isn't what drew me in.
I wanted an ethernet based music player...Same here. I have a lot of digital music on my hard drive on my computer. I want to listen to it throughout my house. The best solution I found was my SB2 and now that I have one, I want more. The problem is, I can't afford to add one SB2,3 plus speakers plus amp in every room of my house. If I could buy one Slim boombox to carry with me throughout the house, I'd do so in a heartbeat for around $400-$500. I would like to see one with a CD player and FM tuner to give it more value away from the home as well.

Kyle